O Brien

Coolmore have destroyed 2yo filly PATTERN races as a betting medium in Ireland. The best horse was having a prep for something else there.

Strewth !

GROUP race for FILLIES - to make them worth a fortune as BROODMARES.

They are ALL trying.

FAV - last time out - at a MILE ...

headway on outer from over 2f out to chase leaders in 4th entering final furlong, kept on well under pressure inside final furlong where edged slightly right to snatch 2nd on line

... She was ridden with more patience but when pulled out to challenge she took time to pick up and in the end she couldn´t get there.

TODAY's race was a Furlong LESS.

Could be a similar scenario in the 3.55 with Unicorn getting backed

Strewth watch the back end Group 1 for fillies to see who's right.

COOLMORE have destroyed 2yo filly PATTERN races as a betting medium in Ireland..

Oneday a horse will lose simply because it wasn't good enough and any market drift will be punters realizing it was priced incorrectly, Until that day we have the BFF to scream "FIX" on.

Another special

Ryan Moore has had a shocker there

port douglas another the man is a disgrace

PMSL

If Joey was on the fav there there would be multiple threads slating him.

Twice a beaten odds on fav in much much weaker races?

all of coolmore where on coolmore its as simple as that , anyone who does not think r moore on the fav was not a decoy , should take a long look at the betting market and the way r moore rode today about last place with a fur to go , winner was backed of the boards they new
allright

Anyone who thinks a multi million pound breeding operation are worried about getting a few bets landed on course at a point or more bigger than the horse should be because punters & bookies follow jockey bookings over form when it comes to Ballydoyle horses hasn't a brain.

money always talks at coolmore gutty maybe they killed 2 birds with one stone here hey ,connections happy about this result me thinks 4s to 5/2 from morning price

well we have a saying up here dont p------sss down my back and tell me its raining !

totally agree GF, just amazes me what people assume goes on

He's a master.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TecR_5-rQ4U


always look at the market

Anyone who doesn't know how how Michael Tabor got his money, doesn't know how how Michael Tabor got his money.

Mart Coolmore is worth around 4 billion worldwide, Magnier has a estimated personal fortune of in excess of £750m.
You believe they are interested in betting ?

connections are gutty

rem how they climbed up their empire ladder to get where they are now
yes more in to multi million breeding now a days , guttie

If you say so. Educating beef dripping isn't for me so good luck.

Just HERE do these exeptionally WELL KNOWN gamblers - who only ever back their OWN stable horses - get their TENS, and Hundreds, of THOUSANDS of Pounds BETS on? ...

When even the 'know nothing' punters get knocked back for a Fifty.

^ * Just WHERE ...

look at the results over the past 2 years even in group races 9/10 the money horses win even when
they have multiple entry's  , think you will find a lot of the original wealth came from gambles .as the stable rose to power so did the class of horses , more spending power , and now indeed a multi million pound breeding outfit !

gutfeeling    Joined: 18 Jul 06
Replies: 2144 27 Sep 15 17:10 
If you say so. Educating beef dripping isn't for me so good luck.

Post of the year by a mile.

pre fat i take it you can enlighten the forum with the full history of coolmore magners etc and how they became the empire they are today ?  you think it was hard work alone
one thing i have found a lot of money men are very greedy ! and now they are like the god fathers
even the stewards bottle it from them !

MAGNIER married VINCENT O'BRIEN's daughter

Think that was 'a bit of a head start'.

Vincent O'Brien built Ballydoyle into the top training establishment that it now is.

Vincent O’Brien wanted to build an Irish bloodstock interest that would function on commercial scale.
In 1975, he purchased two-thirds of Coolmore Stud from its owner, Tim Vigors, and then appointed son-in-law John Magnier, who had the “sharpest brain in the bloodstock business,” as its manager.

next you will be telling me they did not gamble

I am telling you the FACTS - bigmouth.

Of course they gambleD - both sides of the fence in Tabor's case

BUT - they did NOT build the Coolmore empire on the backing of betting.
-------------

Michael TABOR sold his Arthur Prince chain of Betting Shops to Corals for nearly £30 Million....

THAT is where he, primarily, got his money from to get into Coolmore

Tabor started out as a gambler, then had a chain of betting shops, think they were called "Arthur Prince"....don't tell me Coolmoore don't bet, or that the stable staff don't bet to supplement their incomes with inside knowledge. Some on here talk like right ferking eejits.

Sorry Onlooker, didn't see your post, was making the same point at the same time as you mate.

was Port Douglas the first 7 or 8f group winning 2 yo wearing blinkers?

alcpone also built up his empire from nothing did he not

jp He began his gambling career loitering around the local Limerick betting shop,
you have to go way back to get the facts anyone can read tabloids and think everything is 100 %

how many million pound gambles did he land   at chelt and brought them to their knees  of course the money was invested , and they have their fingers in a lot of pies now !

gambling and that empire go hand in hand , the big chesses may be taking a back seat from betting but people connected with that stable certainly are , you can bleat all u want about being billionairs , but look at the betting look at the way said horses run look today the dif ridden  given onlooker its easy to be a smart as---sss--- the fact money horses from that stable invaribly run better , do u think it coincidence the fav drifted to day and was given a stinker of a ride  !    and why wd u not supplement the empire staff to pay call it a staff bonus !

You have to say Coolmore was known today, whether it was for the big boys or the staff, Moore tailed off the fav on purpose and winner was backed off the boards.

A Pattern developing in Ballydoyle gambles.

wildmanfromborneo
wildmanfromborneo 10 Apr 11 20:46 Joined: 30 Nov 10 | Topic/replies: 18,193 | Blogger: wildmanfromborneo's blog
Three big gambles landed by Ballydoyle this season,Empowering,Markmanship and Quest For Peace and already a pattern has developed.All three gambles were well hidden in the word didnt get out,big money got on at surprisingly large prices,also in their races all raced up with the pace and all had hit the front two furlongs out, contrast this with the rides the Ballydoyle horses that were not particularly fancied got,out the back running on.They seem to have got some betting expert on the team maybe its because of the recession but they seem to have cracked the gambling end of things.  being doing it for years now they have billions they are suddenly saints you cd not write the script !

agree 100 % oneyall

as mart says, people with that kind of money tend to love money and are greedy, thats why despite being billionaires with the biggest breeding OP in the world they still wont race Gleneagles for fear of effecting his stud value, wouldnt be surprised if they still liked winning bets, especially off the back of inside info

Took him 7 years to notice... Footstepsinthestand Naas 2004 C.O.Donoghue 16/1 into 7s an hour before the race opened 6/1 into 3/1 Fav beat stablemate Olympia Jamie Spencer opened in the morning at 5/4 went out to 7/4 opened 2/1 drifted to 4/1  by 4lenghts.

oh surprise surprise it happend here again and has been going on for years onlooker open your eyes tar !  funny they put a big name popular jockey like today on the fav , funny how it stank like  been betting for almost 2 decades tend to notice things ,
prob letting the staff supplement income by having the knowledge , they have been arranging coups for years , what chance has jo punter got if stable has 3 in the race , fav ran its worst ever race today , coolmore exeeded prev exploits but money was down today ! i rest my case !

NOBODY has answered my earlier post - let alone answered it satisfactorily ...

onlooker 27 Sep 15 18:08

Just HERE do these exeptionally WELL KNOWN gamblers - who only ever back their OWN stable horses - get their TENS, and Hundreds, of THOUSANDS of Pounds BETS on? ...

When even the 'know nothing' punters get knocked back for a Fifty.

^ * Just WHERE ...

onlooker you wd not have to put much on to lay a fav not to be placed and someone backed the winner today horse got hammered from 4s to 5/2 so some one got on didint they ?

Make your mind up.

One minute - earlier in this thread - you are claiming that they built the Coolmore breeding empire on the back of betting what would have to have be MILLIONS - Now ...

You are saying ... "you wd not have to put much on"

I dont think magnier was far from broke before he met his wife

Btw

Jp is knee deep in trading business these days

if they are making 200k every coup it soon adds up onlooker your making them out to be squeaky clean business of the decade !  i just think punters are been done over and its been going on for years , yes every horse is intitled to give its best but its actally laughable if you don't think something is going on here ? seams they often have a 2nd string in these races put a top jock on the fav drifts late on and oh he has it last with a f to go , please  onlooker you aint that gullable are you ?

Mart

Just because a horse is backed it doesnt mean its always connections..just because a horse drifts and runs poorly it doesnt always mean it was pulled..sometimes you jst have false prices

Vincent O'Brien recognised the need to find rich owners when he first started training on the flat in the late 50's/early 60's and found a rich seam to mine in the US, then the pre-eminent racing jurisdiction in the world I believe, and the Irish-American industrialist, John McShane (owner of his first Derby winner Ballymoss and one of "the Irish that build America"), may have been the first fish he landed.

He attracted plenty of these owners and they, by and large, had their days in the sun but certainly weren't "cleaned out" as you say. John A Mulcahy was a very close friend of MV's and, if he spent a little too much on American-breds then who could blame an ageing racing fan for his loyalty. Waterville golf club was John A's legacy to Ireland. Mulcahy was once the owner of Lyonstown Stud (now part of the Coolmore/Ballydoyle empire) and it was build along the lines of American barns.

Inspired by MV's success with US-breds, the Sangster/Magnier/O'Brien axis developed in the seventies (and helped themselves to plenty of petro-dollars) and did attract/target the vast fortunes of Stavros Niarchos (this bloodstock dynasty is still going strong in France mainly) and Danny Schwartz was probably the most unusual owner attracted to the syndicate. He did lose plenty but perhaps he had a laundry business that was extremely profitable!

With the demise of MV and Sangster into the 80's they couldn't compete against the Arabs (who recalls Racing Post headlines "Will Sh Mohammed/Goldolphin/Sh Hamdan win every Group 1 this year?"). John Magnier was developing a stallion business worldwide and only when MV retired did the dream of Ballydoyle become a spark of an idea. Aiden O'Brien was taken on to prove himself and it was a number of years before the massive investment in yearlings started to take place and the blue-bloods stayed in Tipperary rather than venturing to Newmarket or Chantilly.

John Magnier merely repeated the formula that produced The Minstrel, Golden Fleece, El Gran Senor and a myriad of other stakes horse when finding "equal" partners in Tabor and, more recently, Smith and with the Arab battalions constantly ranged against them it is absolutely critical that this syndicate works perfectly well for all concerned. It is truly remarkable how successful they have been competing against opponents with, literally, limitless amounts of cash; that they have succeeded and prospered is remarkable testimony to the genius of the man from Grange Stud.

listen to bigmart as he is very close to hitting the nail on the Head .. and ..I.can go back near... 50 years.... so no change there ....
many wagers are struck abroad for decent money WINK WINK ..marks card for big.. layers they become stakeholders and work accordingly to  how it goes through their  mincer..??? as stand it or not .??. then up to them  ..Shops are in past really .. it has all moved on ...used to be not a loser in book  but thats gone now as you  have to work a lot harder to have resemblance of odds your cash NOW ...HAlf Crowns ...8.*half crowns to a POUND ...10  bob   NOTES ..hence easy counting ... 100 to...9... 8   ... 7   ..6  Decimal now ? only little difference again moved on  ..and agree built the top BLOODSTOCK AND USED MONEY WISELY ..................

£200k about what they get for galileo covering 3 mares

hardly worth the effort

which firms continually lay to lose 200 k on the these "coups" ?

Tabor as most people will know is a big part of Coolmore,is also a big shareholder in VC,and although you do make a good point in relation to plenty of successful people in other businesses have met their waterloo at this racing game,you cannot apply that thinking to Tabor,because basically speaking this is his original business.He owned the Arthur Prince chain of betting shops in London before selling them on,he was warned off many years ago,so this is no greenhorn we are dealing with.He is originally from the EastEnd of London,so this man is well used to all sorts of funny dealings.Any person who pays 3p commission as long as he has is doing it for a reason,if he was a mug he could bet with anybody,that stands to reason.With the contacts he has ,i could think of alot better things to be doing than taking him on in a head to head battle.Keen Leader thinks otherwise but the chap is dreaming,anybody that lays him now does so to find out what he is backing,and no other reason.As for people thinking that he is the weakest link in the Coolmore Operation,well i couldnt actually nominate who that person is but it certainly isnt Tabor.  as prev stated onlooker you need to know the roots , and were the original money stems from

its a bit more than that at the bigger meetings onlooker and clean tax free money

Couldn't agree more with what is being said about these pattern race "jobs" in Ireland ...favs ridden out the back, pacemaker wins ...next time out, they are both given different rides...its almost as if its about the gambles first...then the black type ...[

Yeah and Seamie Heffernan just happens to have a face like fizz every time he spoils the party. Most recent Grade 1 win the other week on Minding - done everything he could not to pass Ballydoyle who had been backed as if unbeatable. He looked like a man who had just sh!t himself instead of celebrating a grade 1 win! They don't gamble anymore though ....

Backed as if unbeatable!!!!!!, Opened 11/8f & returned 5/4f, Some gamble that.
Have to wonder why they wasn't on Port Talbot today who opened at 14/1 and returned the same price or maybe Hit It A Bomb who opened at 2/1 and returned the same price.
I mean if they know like people suggest, I'd suggest people know nothing and they want black type for every horse and care very very little for anything else as that's what keeps the empire rolling.

So she wasn't 7/4 the night before then???

And Hit It A Bomb wasn't 7/2 this morning???

I'm not saying they know every single outcome but no one can tell me they did not want Ballydoyle beaten. There's not one person on this forum that day who said both jockeys on Minding and Alice Springs done everything they could not to win that race. It's certainly not the first time it's happened and it certainly won't be the last!

I could sit here all night and list the Ballydoyle drifters who duly obliged running like drifters, meanwhile the apparent 2nd or 3rd string get backed. I don't have a problem with it, just think people need a reality check.

The market often assumes bcoz the firstjock is on a horse that the horse has the best chance of winning

"don't tell me Coolmoore don't bet, or that the stable staff don't bet to supplement their incomes with inside knowledge. Some on here talk like right ferking eejit".


I think this has legs.