Owners of The Great Gatsby

he can't get the right horse ffs

The ownership of The Great Gatsby is problematic. In most of the world including the UK it is in the public domain as Fitzgerald ( not that one )died over 70 years ago. The book wasn't published till 1925 though so in the US I believe it is the property of his estate for another 10 years.

* grey

sorry my bad

D'oh

Spencer's perfect for saturday , 'ride it for 2nd' , might get lucky

"Jamie gave it a fantastic ride".....

i'd agree with that though Roger , the fantastic ride given the rules of racing , the fact is Ryan wouldve bent the rules and barged out and won.

Spencer needs to ride more 'win at all costs' , its the rules for big races

Only one owner----Frank Gillespie.

Don't like jockey bashing - its a dangerous job....

but even I have to hold up my hands to some of Jamies rides... don't there will be a jockey like him... he gave us hope when he said he would retire...

I have backed THE GREY GATSBY ante post... I was tempted to rip up my ticket now... and read the hard luck story on Sunday.

Should run very well Saturday but on official ratings has a bit to find with the Derby winner. Also raced eleven times and finished 2nd six times. Now I'm not saying for one second he's not tough but unless produced close to the finishing line he doesn't win in my opinion. So sometimes he may look unlucky.

jamie did nowt wrong at ascot, frankie held his position what hes entitled to do

what could jamie do ?

You could put Red Pollard on it and it still won't trouble the fav!

I put up on here Ascot week about these supposedly unlucky horses.Just look how often this horse has been placed & ask yourselves has he been unlucky all these runs?Fair enough blame the jock,blame whatever else you want to blame but for me he has to be laid.There's no doubt he's a good horse but is he as straightforward as some may think.Put him to the front too early & what will he do?

general custer






02 Jul 15 16:01
Joined:


06 Sep 07
| Topic/replies: 5,085 | Blogger: general custer's blog



what the f uck you on about

Agreed.

Jamie top of the jocks in terms of hard luck in races...

that tells you something.

I'll agree he seems to mistime things etc. with his runs from the back but surely a lot of the time he's put on some of these horses which have not got to see daylight until right on the line.The trainers know his style of riding & he can put horses to sleep this is the chance they take when putting him up.If they don't get a run well that's tough,however if they see the front too early & they stop well once again it's the jockeys fault.
Whilst on the subject of poor rides,I don't think I've seen anyone on here critising S.D.S's ride on the fav. in the plate last Saturday.He was no doubt riding to instructions the same as Jamie would have been at Ascot but that horse was giving a terrible ride.Put to the front after about a furlong then still parked wide.Got to the two furlong mark & nothing left yet the horse which finished (2nd I believe)from nearly as bad a draw was tucked in at the back.Who knows,if may be a horse that has to see daylight thus them trying to get the front but it was asking an awful lot of the horse to race like it did out of the boxes then expect it to come again at the finish.Maybe if he had tucked it in it may have sulked so once again it's easy to blame the  jock when he was probably riding to instructions.

* grey

sorry my bad

So delta and PPG are 1 and the same - whodathunk it the amount of time they spend talking to eachother about bob...............

The G.G. ran in the £120,000 Tattersalls Gold Cup Group 1,
2 Horses that finished in front of him have never won anything better than a Gr2 and a Gr3,
His trainer says he Needed the run, how Much of an inept training performance is that
The G.G. seems better coming off a Fast pace, he wont get that in the Eclipse,
Golden Horn has The pace & stamina to take it up One out and Storm Clear.

"Diff-rent 02 Jul 15 23:22 Joined: 20 Apr 15 | Topic/replies: 149 | Blogger: Diff-rent's blog
Should run very well Saturday but on official ratings has a bit to find with the Derby winner. Also raced eleven times and finished 2nd six times. Now I'm not saying for one second he's not tough but unless produced close to the finishing line he doesn't win in my opinion. So sometimes he may look unlucky"

I think those six second places are just coincidence and I don't question his resolution at all...he certainly didn't shirk it against Australia at Leopardstown.

PS - I'm struggling to remember a better 10f Northern trained performer than The Grey Gatsby...any suggestions?

The G.G. gave a good performance at Ascot with the "Cheek pieces" on,
I don't like the fact it takes 7 men to "Lift him" into the starting stalls,
Maybe he is ready for stud?.
-------------------------------
Gunner B (8 March 1973–18 January 2003) was a British Thoroughbred racehorse and sire. In a racing career which lasted from May 1975 until October 1978 he contested thirty-three races, winning fourteen times, finishing second five times and third seven times.
Originally trained in Yorkshire, he won twice as a two-year-old in 1975 before becoming a highly successful handicapper in the following season, when he won the Cecil Frail Handicap, Andy Capp Handicap and the Doonside Cup.
He won three races in 1977 including the Group Three Diomed Stakes but appeared to have been well-exposed as a tough, consistent horse who was some way below the best.
After joining the stable of Henry Cecil in 1978, however, he emerged as a genuinely top-class horse winning the Earl of Sefton Stakes, Brigadier Gerard Stakes, Prince of Wales's Stakes, Eclipse Stakes and Valdoe Stakes as well as finishing second in the Benson and Hedges Gold Cup and third in the Champion Stakes.

That's quite interesting about Northern trained group performers...I think I need Onlooker's assistance to find a middle-distance horse whose rating can match that of The Grey Gatsby's official 127 because I don't really know where to start my search as I'm going from memory.

don't like spencer-lay his horses+hoover up+do not twist.simple

Think it might win

At 4/1 it's got to an e/w bet to nothing shirley ?

the owner owns hayrods construction which he bought for a nominal 1 pound when the owner went off the drink and returned to ireland.
said prev owner returned when the workforce had multiplied from 200 to 2000.gillespie told him to eff orf and offered him a job cleaning toilets

donegal man

The issue about the owners is why they have not bought a decent pace maker for the horse. Give him a solid group 2/3 horse to set an even pace tomorrow and he'd be joint fav in my book.

Northern trained horse on a par with TGG - how about Teleprompter, mainly a miler, but did win the Arlington Million over 10F in 1985 and was rated 130 in Racehorses of 1985.

His options were limited because he was a gelding and at that time could not run in many of the Group 1 races.

looka a good bet at 6.00 on here,suited by distance and going and prefer him on tracks with shortish run ins and has won a couple of group 1,the fav is a top horse but when you watch his races it looks like he would be better over longer especially on this quick ground

Anorak - excellent stuff mate...well remembered, as I'd threw the towel in.

I wouldn't have thought Teleprompter was a 130 horse...was that his 'official' rating?
I always ignore the subjective plums from the rest of them.

From what I remember of Teleprompter, he'd often be 'outclassed' in many group one events, and I'd NOT have him on a par with The Grey Gatsby.

I'd say Teleprompter was the main culprit who paved the way for geldings like Cirrus Des Aigles to strut around in the top grade races.

Onlooker - where are you?

N-G,

As I mentioned above, Teleprompter wasn't allowed to run in Group 1 races in Europe because he'd been gelded, so races like the Eclipse, Juddmonte International and Champion Stakes weren't open to him.

He did win the QEII in 1984 (also 2nd in 1985), but that was then a Group 2 and I have a memory of seeing him run in the Queen Anne when that was also a Gp2.

It was only in 1986 that geldings were allowed to run in most 4-y-old and up Group 1 races.

In the International Classification of 1985, he was rated 86, 7lbs below the top older horse Rainbow Quest, with Pebbles the top 1M-10F horse on 92.

86 equates to 126 on today's official charts.

I always figure that the upgrading of many races to group one status has made them easier to win nowadays, so in my view the group twos of yesteryear are not exactly the 'equivalents' of the top races (though they are in name) as that change has diluted the quality of today's group ones as there's now so much choice and easy options to coward away from the best.

PS - I didn't realise the gelding business was as early as 1986...the debate seemed to be raging for years.

Mr Baileys.

Navel I believe the horse has to be brought with a late run and that sometimes can make him look unlucky regardless of who rides him. I'm not a big fan of Spencer and never have been unless he is riding for connections when the big cash is down. He was unlucky at Ascot and no I wouldn't want Spencer on board if I owned the horse today.

I was waiting on spencer in the last at royal ascot this season on a 14/1 horse that had been held up at epsom and finished fast there,   as I already had 15/8 winner, 12/1 winner, and 10/1 winner on a lucky 15. 

I figured spencer would come with his usual late flourish and we'd either be very unlucky or win a lot of money.

as it turned out the horse was front rank all the way round and weakened turning into the straight.

granted it had won from the front before over 7f and 8f but I wrongly guessed that they put spencer on it because they were going to hold it up over 12f as it had run well previously when held up.

couldn't blame the jockey though as he was probably given instructions to ride it like that.

i like spencer on riding for 2nd and with o'briens becoming popular it'll give us banker fc , fav-gatsby

Ran his race and 2nd again.

That's hardly something to denigrate his performance by...he showed an admirable attitude AGAIN and he's just been bettered by a proper group one horse who might well end up being compared with the greats in time.

I'm sure you're not questioning his resolve...it was a very short price that he was gonna notch up another second place earlier today.

I wouldn't question his toughness. Take the winner away and the 2nd is clear of the rest. He just keeps bumping into better horses.

Nowt wrong with that mate...he's well up to winning more group ones when the elite are left in their stables.

Seriously, if you owned a decent horse Spencer would be the last person I'd want on board.

Every one from moore to mccoy feck up from time to time its just spencer does time after time after time.

I would say theres nothing between the ears and thats unlikely to change now

He HAS actually got some ability but I reckon it's his sheer arrogance that gets him beat most of the time, as he's got that 'I know best' attitude - it's shone through so clearly on many occasions in his interviews.

They say the Premiership table does not lie. I would say the jockey`s championship does not lie,so lets see where Jamie Spencer finishes. Top ten I would guess and personally if I thought the horse was good enough I would always back him.

Look at his ride on Forgotten Voice, he took the worst possible path giving the horse little chances... not the first and not the last time he'll do it.. I'd be really careful backing any of his rides..

Basically he is not the sharpest tool in the box and if he was not eight stone he would be unemployable..

Just a thought.

Navel-Gazer 03 Jul 15 17:07
PS - I'm struggling to remember a better 10f Northern trained performer than The Grey Gatsby...any suggestions?

It surprised to realise there have been so few top class northern mid distance horses. Other than what has been mentioned the only one I can think of is Dante going back to the 1940s