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wumpkins
01 Jul 15 19:20
Joined:
Date Joined: 29 Nov 01
| Topic/replies: 56 | Blogger: wumpkins's blog
a one day ban isn't enough for what they did at royal ascot
I suppose the agt are doing nothing as usual.
or the gambling commission either.
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Report IanP July 1, 2015 7:27 PM BST
Nothing to do with the GC.  As long as the t&cs are clear you can do what you like.
Report wumpkins July 1, 2015 7:55 PM BST
no you cant do what you like.
betting 1/5 odds on the royal hunt cup isn't acceptable.
Report IanP July 1, 2015 7:59 PM BST
It's not the GC that says you can't.
Report mincer11 July 1, 2015 8:03 PM BST
Whats wrong with betting 1/5 odds in the Royal hunt Cup ?
Report hulk23 July 1, 2015 8:06 PM BST
far too generous, putting the rest of them to shame ...
Report adge July 1, 2015 8:53 PM BST
was it 1/5th first three ?
Report foxy July 1, 2015 9:08 PM BST
wumpkins


in reality they got a severe penalty I can only comment on the tatts bookmaker the pre paid badge is over £500 add to that the loss of earnings it is much more of a severe penalty than what a punter gets for pis.ing on some bodies joint in front of the bookmakers wife or for somebody committing a violent attack for the first time and much more severe than an mp messing around with children.the fine for drunk driving is also less none of those examples can be a mistake.
Report foxy July 1, 2015 9:14 PM BST
also wumpkins what shall we do about the toat on Wednesday 10th june I was having a day out at haydock just before the first race a horse was withdrawn a punter goes to the toat window and asks do I get my money back the reply is yes you do with us but you don't with the other bookmakers is this a mistake or a lie and what was the outcome ?

today at thirsk an announcement for the last 5 races the toat will not be able to display prices but you can still bet with them at any windows racecourse bookmakers have to display everything whats your opinion on those two situations ?
Report wasnot July 1, 2015 9:28 PM BST
I assume you are in full possession of the facts before posting names wumpkins as you are "naming and shaming" on a public forum, subject to libel and defamation laws.
Report foxy July 1, 2015 9:35 PM BST
wasnot

10 on wumpkins is a racecourse bookmaker/workman.
Report wasnot July 1, 2015 9:38 PM BST
Agree foxy but what is there to gain posting it on here, especially as the person posting is unlikely to know the circumstances.  I don't.
Report foxy July 1, 2015 9:50 PM BST
I don't know the reason for that wasnot but in time people slip up on this forum this wumpkins character may get away with it as he has only 54 posts in 14 years.
Report holywell July 1, 2015 10:03 PM BST
Gentlemen,

Apologies for interrupting, but, I have a question.

My son tells me that his mate is thinking of applying to be an on course bookmaker, hoping initially to get a pitch at Newcastle. My immediate response was that he should keep his job and forget about bookmaking.

I have read numerous posts from the bookmaking fraternity on here and it seems all doom and gloom.

Are there any positives I could feedback to this young guy who wants to join the bookmaking ranks ?
Report wasnot July 1, 2015 10:08 PM BST
Hello Holywell.  Its a great way of life, I wouldn't do anything else.  In terms of pure economics its madness though I'm afraid.  The set up costs are prohibitive and the returns on your money are very poor, as there are fewer and fewer days that are profitable with each year that passes.  The other thing to bear in mind is the admin and regulation.  For tiny businesses we are forever filling in forms and have various bodies trying to catch us out with test purchases.

Sorry, that sounds a lot more negative than positive.  As a business to pack your job in for I'd say you'd have to be mad.
Report foxy July 1, 2015 10:12 PM BST
holywell

basically wasnot is right it madness but great fun most of the time.
Report holywell July 1, 2015 10:17 PM BST
Thanks for the response wasnot.

I will relay your thoughts to the guy who seems keen to give bookmaking a go, he is a gambler so that may make it even more difficult for him to make it pay, but, he is young so if it goes 't1ts up' he could return to a mundane 9 to 5 job.
Report holywell July 1, 2015 10:18 PM BST
Thanks foxy.
Report wasnot July 1, 2015 10:24 PM BST
Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen Holywell.  Tell him to continue with his job at the same time if he can.  Bookmaking is mainly a Saturday job these days anyway.
Report foxy July 1, 2015 10:26 PM BST
holywell

if he is young without to many commitments he must have a crack at it, otherwise he may end up like mmmaluska.
Report ribero1 July 1, 2015 10:27 PM BST
Nothing wrong with getting a pitch at Newcastle as long as he only goes twice a year.
Report foxy July 1, 2015 10:29 PM BST
why does it sound like a disaster waiting to happen wasnot ?

as for telling him to keep doing his own job then coming out on Saturdays well there lies our biggest problem.
Report sugarsteve1 July 1, 2015 10:33 PM BST
Get him to call AGT and ask for the number of someone who has helped new bookies over the last few years, in setting up.

He will need great patience, a lump of money to set up  and a years salary in hand to cover his first year/ an outside income.  If he has those 3 things he could earn a living and have an enjoyable time.

You never know, he could be my 2016 Apprentice!
Report Deltâ July 1, 2015 10:33 PM BST
You're Fired!
Report sugarsteve1 July 1, 2015 10:34 PM BST
ho Ho
Report wasnot July 1, 2015 10:40 PM BST
A young lad who knows nothing about bookmaking who is a gambler at heart who wants to pack in his job and buy a pitch at Newcastle?  What could possibly go wrong?
Report foxy July 1, 2015 10:50 PM BST
he may learn quickly you cant go through live without having a go at something.
Report democrat July 1, 2015 10:51 PM BST
Hi foxy. It would appear from your comments that you felt the miscreants were dealt with severely. What do you think would have been more appropriate ? The views of those who abided by 'the rules' would also be of interest. I find it quite surprising that amongst the 100's that were laying on course on the race in question these two individuals were spotted and disciplined.
Report foxy July 1, 2015 11:13 PM BST
hi democrat

my thoughts are if it was a mistake then the punishment was severe if it was done on purpose then that's a different matter,the one thing mmmaluska is right about on this forum is that we should all pay 1/4 odds 1st 4 on 16 plus handicaps then mistakes cant be made.
Report democrat July 1, 2015 11:17 PM BST
Doesn't the software used default to the  correct terms ? If so it would need to be altered manually unless they were using a system written by jocky !!! WhoopsWhoopsWhoops
Report intheknow July 1, 2015 11:18 PM BST
I guess that the software would have to be manually changed to 1/5?
Report intheknow July 1, 2015 11:19 PM BST
democrat wins by a short head
Report factmachine July 2, 2015 7:35 AM BST
SPOT ON FOXY REGARDING "ALL" BEING MADE TO BET 1/4,MOST OF THE YORKSHIRE BOOKS HAVING TO BET WIN ONLYLaughLaughLaughLaughShocked
Report allpoints July 2, 2015 9:06 AM BST
Holywell
Tell your sons mate to go to an off meeting at Newcastle & see how few books there are.Also tell him to stand back & watch how little they are taking.It's no good him only going on the decent days & thinking this bookmaking larks a doddle.At Newcastle there's two exceptionally good days,one evening meeting(Gosforth cup night which is half decent).On the jumps the Fighting Fifth day is half decent but it's a hard meeting to win at(very few results).I've over twenty grand invested in the place in pitches but these are the only days I go & I don't live an hour from the track.
Now I've painted the doom & gloom about the game,tell him if he really wants to give it a go do so but don't whatever he does pack his job in to go on course bookmaking.If he doesn't give it a go then he'll regret not doing it later on in life if he has his heart set on it.
Report holywell July 2, 2015 9:10 AM BST
Thanks allpoints.
Report adge July 2, 2015 9:46 AM BST
I wouldn't think that Newcastle would be the place to want to buy you're first pitch. with the total uncertainty of all weather racing the future doesn't look good for attendances at 95% of the meetings .
however , I don't share the doom and gloom of some . I would more suggest a first pitch purchase at York in the centre course where there are a number of Saturdays which are great fun to bet at
Report foxy July 2, 2015 9:47 AM BST
yes it does have to be changed manually but on a very busy day people can make mistakes with the present rules, if everybody had to bet the traditional way then there are no excuses.perhaps some books will be overbroke in the place markets that's life deal with it.
Report adge July 2, 2015 9:52 AM BST
I'm sceptical , foxy , as the Wednesday is not an overly busy day at ascot , but we have only one side of the story.
Report intheknow July 2, 2015 9:58 AM BST
Yes very true adge but in the absence of the full facts, it's only natural for people to draw their own conclusions. Myself included
Report foxy July 2, 2015 9:59 AM BST
adge

I can only speak regarding the tatts  bookmaker who I bet near for 3 days I am in no doubt it was a mistake.
Report democrat July 2, 2015 10:46 AM BST
Going back to my previous point. Was the 'error' spotted by AGT staff or sharp eyed racecourse employees ? It sounds as if the action taken was rather swift. Who determined the form of punishment that was exacted ? 'Great fun' to bet at York course adge ? How nice for you !!!!
Report democrat July 2, 2015 10:47 AM BST
Going back to my previous point. Was the 'error' spotted by AGT staff or sharp eyed racecourse employees ? It sounds as if the action taken was rather swift. Who determined the form of punishment that was exacted ? 'Great fun' to bet at York course adge ? How nice for you !!!!
Report democrat July 2, 2015 10:48 AM BST
Oops dodgy mouse !
Report foxy July 2, 2015 11:42 AM BST
good morning democrat

my guess is that jcr was waiting for this to happen.
Report bbc2 July 2, 2015 12:50 PM BST
must have been jcr agentsSad
Report democrat July 2, 2015 2:45 PM BST
Tend to agree with you foxy. Wonder how many 'spies' they deployed at the Royal meting ?
Report democrat July 2, 2015 2:49 PM BST
Come on adge expand on your 'great fun' remark - don't tell us you go in for having your face painted !! LaughLaugh
Report foxy July 2, 2015 4:07 PM BST
democrat

whenever the gc turn up its at the likes of chester and cartmel royal ascot and goodwood even the Cheltenham festival to do there field work,they have not been known to turn up at catterick bridge in December or ffos las in January.
Report foxy July 2, 2015 4:08 PM BST
I think what adge likes about York is how easy it is to get your gear on and off.
Report nothinbutthetruth July 2, 2015 8:01 PM BST
foxy

I can only speak regarding the tatts  bookmaker who I bet near for 3 days I am in no doubt it was a mistake


the tatts bookmaker would regularly bet to 1/6th and 1/7th the odds when the rules allowed, so to be in 'no doubt' that it was a mistake is very naïve/misjudged.

I completely agree with OP. if I was ascot management they wouldn't stand at my track again
Report beatherder12 July 2, 2015 8:21 PM BST
Wish someone would have stood me down at Haydock park today
Report foxy July 3, 2015 8:13 AM BST
nothingbutthetruth

perhaps I am naïve I see you completely agree with the opening poster who seems to have disappeared from this thread after starting it the way he did.

I wonder if after a long lunch he awoke the following morning wandering what the implications might be when he slips up.
Report factmachine July 3, 2015 10:22 AM BST
AT MOST TRACKS THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE FLIMPERS BET IN THE BEST PITCHES,TAKING THE ROYAL ASCOT INCIDENT AS AN EXAMPLE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THE PUNISHMENT WOULD HAVE BEEN TO A BOOKMAKER BETTING IN PICK 80+
Report HarryHandi July 3, 2015 10:29 AM BST
Any bookmaker who bets in pick 80+ is already suffering a self inflicted punishment.
Report intheknow July 3, 2015 12:08 PM BST
afternoon foxy, we've had the gc police at a couple of midweek gaffs over the past year

"how many 10k bets do you think you will take today?"

ffs
Report foxy July 3, 2015 12:22 PM BST
good afternoon intheknow

the first visit we got they asked me how do you supervise the gaming machines.
Report mmmalushka July 3, 2015 12:44 PM BST
good afternoon foxy, you still defending this pair who were caught red handed offering their customers less than minimal ew terms either intentionally or by mistake.
Report foxy July 3, 2015 1:03 PM BST
good afternoon mmmalushka

its not a case of defending them I don't know the facts but in all walks of life people do make mistakes,however I do think its disappointing when a fellow bookmaker hiding behind a forum name comes on to this forum and names two bookmakers like what has happened here.if it was done intentionally then of course I wouldn't defend them and would agree with the opening poster about the punishment not been enough,my main point on this thread is that all racecourse bookmakers choosing to bet e/w on 16 runner handicaps bet at 1/4 odds then it would be impossible to make a mistake,i would have no problem with those who just wanted to bet win only.
Report mmmalushka July 3, 2015 1:23 PM BST
Could,nt agree more with the above sentiments regarding ew betting,however its an open forum and wumpkins took the view that they should be named and shamed.
Report foxy July 3, 2015 1:31 PM BST
that's also fair enough mmmalushka and its the way this forum is, but as wasnot stated earlier on the thread it could be trouble if the accused were to find out who the poster is.
Report foxy July 3, 2015 1:32 PM BST
by the way what is mmmalushka ?
Report Racecourse Regular July 3, 2015 1:36 PM BST
mistake or not this doesn't bode well if it was to make the trade press as the terms on offer in one area at Cheltenham did this year...
Report factmachine July 3, 2015 1:43 PM BST
FOXY,MMMALULUSHKA IS RUSSIAN FOR COMMISSION AGENT,I WILL BE IN THE COMPANY OF QUITE A FEW MMMALUSHKAS TONIGHT AT HAYDOCK,BUT NOT ONE TO BE SEEN AT THE ABBER HARNESS RACING FESTIVALHappy
Report intheknow July 3, 2015 1:45 PM BST
not to be confused with the arber harness racing festival Laugh
Report foxy July 3, 2015 1:46 PM BST
exactly rr another reason why it should never of been brought up on an open forum.
Report factmachine July 3, 2015 1:55 PM BST
INTHEKNOWLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report factmachine July 3, 2015 1:56 PM BST
I WILL PASS ON YOUR REGARDS TO MR HESTON!
Report democrat July 4, 2015 10:38 PM BST
'Adge getting his gear on and off easily at York' ? The mind boggles !!! Happy
Report nothinbutthetruth July 4, 2015 11:27 PM BST
foxy

good afternoon mmmalushka

its not a case of defending them I don't know the facts but in all walks of life people do make mistakes,however I do think its disappointing when a fellow bookmaker hiding behind a forum name comes on to this forum and names two bookmakers like what has happened here.if it was done intentionally then of course I wouldn't defend them and would agree with the opening poster about the punishment not been enough,my main point on this thread is that all racecourse bookmakers choosing to bet e/w on 16 runner handicaps bet at 1/4 odds then it would be impossible to make a mistake,i would have no problem with those who just wanted to bet win only.


the rdt software sets the place terms for their users as 'traditional standard'

100+ bookmakers at ascot using rdt software and only two of those 100+ bookmakers perhaps received an erroneous default place setting. technology doesn't work like that im afraid
Report Black Sam Bellamy July 5, 2015 12:37 AM BST
I thought one of the two mentioned books was caught paying out only the win portion of winners where the bet placed was an each way one ?
Report adge July 5, 2015 9:49 AM BST
that was a cheap ring bookmaker's son at glorious goodwood a couple of years ago , sam . he was suspended for the rest of the week.
haven't heard as such with this case
Report foxy July 5, 2015 11:16 AM BST
nothingbutthetruth

point taken I really should not be trying to defend racecourse bookmakers most of them deserve all the stick they get some off the things I have heard and seen recently makes me realise the sooner there are non left the better.
Report wasnot July 5, 2015 11:24 AM BST
I'm shocked at that statement foxy Shocked

Still plenty of decent ones where I bet.
Report intheknow July 5, 2015 11:37 AM BST
I detect a little irony from foxy this morning
Report foxy July 5, 2015 11:39 AM BST
just two examples from Friday night at haydock wasnot

bookmaker betting on the 2nd row in the newton stand has a freeze on his equipment rdt technician trying to sort it out nobody stood on the joint 5/4 shot on his board 1.97 to lay bookmaker from the front comes running over not to advise him to unplug his board but to ask for a 500 to 400.


bookmaker betting in tatts 14 /1 on his board 15.5 on machine gets asked for a 500 /35 answer is no why did he have to 14s on the board ?


other recent things I have seen is money finders giving threats out to bookmakers if they bet in certain places.

bookmakers betting on the front row at royal ascot when they don't even have a pitch in the ring.

shall I carry on wasnot on an open forum ?
Report wasnot July 5, 2015 11:51 AM BST
Someone asked me for a 500/35 on fri night after I'd just dropped the price to 12s.  Was that you foxy?  I'd just laid 1400/100 EW on the other pitch near the rails.  If you'd identified yourself I'd have bet you as well if it was you.
Report foxy July 5, 2015 11:54 AM BST
wasnot

I didn't go to haydock Friday night.
Report foxy July 5, 2015 11:54 AM BST
can I add that's a very fair answer wasnot.
Report houdini July 5, 2015 12:17 PM BST
I still think to give them the benefit of doubt I reckon they have looked at the place market seen it is  104% and assumed that they must be able to go 1/5  as who would be stupid enough to bet to those figures !
Report ribero1 July 5, 2015 12:29 PM BST
I'm with Foxy here,as in every walk of life there's plenty who would rob their own granny in our game.I'm often asked by punters where do they find a particular bookmaker at the moment.
Report democrat July 5, 2015 5:49 PM BST
Out of the 100's operating on this day were the two named here the only ones not applying standard terms ? I suspect not but others might be in a position to be more definitive.
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