Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
At last someone who thinks about racing fans and regular racegoers rather than the casual drunken racegoer when it comes to race planning.
Show More
totally agree asparagus lets hope the bha sandown and other racecourses take notice.
would you want martin dywers mates in the owners and trainers bar?
Thebeg, I'm just talking about the main article. I'm certainly not a fan of Dwyer though overall Hughes may have a point.
Jimnast, you'd hope the BHA take notice. Racecourses unfortunately have a very short term outlook.
Jimnast, you'd hope the BHA take notice. Racecourses unfortunately have a very short term outlook.
Shame the first class tw"t does think about punters when hes riding. A publicity stunt and you have fallen for it. He dont give a monkeys about racing fans, he probably didnt ride out yet another horse for a place and a punter rightly gave him some abuse.
The bloke would only bring it to everyone's attention if it had affected him!
The bloke would only bring it to everyone's attention if it had affected him!
Very well said and Hughes speaking for pretty much all racing fans there I would imagine. The Racing Post should have been much more vocal on these subjects 5 years ago. In my opinion the genie is now out of the bottle though and the game is doomed. Doomed.
sorry lads, you live in a capitalist country...you prob all just voted for the Tories, who want to de-regulate, to have as few barriers to rampant capitalism as possible..if you vote for that, you vote for courses maximising profits by racing when they can get the most people in the bars as possible. Profits first, niceties a distant 2nd.
I thought it was just me being stuck in the past. I agree with every word he said. Saturdays are a no go option for me. As he highlighted mainly a non racing crowd with a plastic glass in their hand watching the racing on a big screen because the view is obstructed by various structures for the after racing entertainment. The Derby should be run on Wednesday another disastrous decision.
That's an obvious fair point but just off the top of my head Sandown could be incentivised financially to stick with the midweek slot? How hard can it be just to find solutions......
I was going to use football as an example of how you can grow commercially and in popularity but I suppose the traditionalists have been upset in that sport too.
totally agree with hughes, been to the last 20 runnings of the Hilary needler which was always run in the evening at Beverley my local track, this year it was moved to last Saturday afternoon,i didn't go with all the other top racing on tv, and the race got lost amongst all that was going on.
Derby on a Wednesday 
...why not go the whole hog and have it on Monday morning
...why not go the whole hog and have it on Monday morning
Hughes explained exactly why I gave up going racing and backing horses. For me the last straw was those silly whip bans.
I said to myself these guys who run racing spend more time worrying about the people who don't go racing than the likes of me who was going 30 times a year mostly midweek and betting most days.
So I said stuff them let them chase the big crowds on a Saturday who have no interested in betting.......... I'm off.
I now quite happily just bet on Sports such as the football, rugby and golf.
I said to myself these guys who run racing spend more time worrying about the people who don't go racing than the likes of me who was going 30 times a year mostly midweek and betting most days.
So I said stuff them let them chase the big crowds on a Saturday who have no interested in betting.......... I'm off.
I now quite happily just bet on Sports such as the football, rugby and golf.
"Saturated Saturday"
Good one. Perhaps 'Great British Racing' will adopt it as their latest slogan.
Good one. Perhaps 'Great British Racing' will adopt it as their latest slogan.
Meanwhile yet another clash,Haydock and Chester,and on it goes.
if that ****wit rod street gets his way there will be 6 blank days a week and 27 meetings on a saturday
not much to do with Rod Street imo...it's what the courses want
Champion Flat jockey and Racing Post columnist Richard Hughes says piling up fixtures on a Saturday is the wrong approach for the sport to take
AS EVER, Brigadier Gerard night at Sandown more than lived up to its billing of being the best evening fixture of the year and one of the leading single-day midweek meetings in the calendar. I am therefore incredibly disappointed there is talk of switching the card to a Saturday.
It's true the Sandown grandstands were not heaving on Thursday night, just as they never have been for this high-quality evening's entertainment. That is a shame, but at the same time you can pretty much guarantee the vast majority of those who did go were committed racing fans who appreciate the fact the Brigadier Gerard Stakes, Henry II Stakes and National Stakes, not to mention the Heron Stakes and Whitsun Cup, are packaged together to form a cracking, and sadly all too unusual, midweek treat. I know loads of people who went on Thursday and had been looking forward to it for ages.
Those who went to Sandown are examples of some of the most important people in this sport. They are the ones who buy the Racing Post, watch Channel 4 every Saturday, press 415 or 432 on their remote controls on a regular basis and make an effort to go racing. They are the customers racing already has, yet all too often the sport is guilty of annoying and alienating these people in an effort to bring in a different, younger crowd. In my opinion that is a massive mistake.
Tons of money and time seem to go into attracting new people to racecourses, the vast majority of whom have no interest in the sport and never will have. That would be fine if it were not for the fact that by trying to please the new racegoers those responsible upset the existing ones, a prime example being the moving of quality fixtures from midweek slots to Saturdays.
The most important people to a trainer are owners. The trainer has to look after owners as well as he or she possibly can. They have to come first, just as any business will always consider the needs and interests of faithful, existing customers before potential new ones, especially if the needs and interests of those existing customers differ from the perceived needs and interests of the potential new ones.
The Sandown crowd on Thursday was different to the crowd the track will get for its upcoming summer music nights. The Brigadier Gerard racegoers went because they are enthusiastic, loyal lovers of racing who were attracted by the finest evening meeting of the year and a relatively rare chance to enjoy some top-notch midweek action.
To get the next generation of racegoers we all hear about, racecourses think they should put all their goodies in a Saturday basket. From what I've seen, what that often leads to is racecourses simply being full of stag and hen parties.
One of the biggest complaints of racing's core fan base is the bias towards Saturdays in the staging of the top meetings. People who love racing love to see good racing, but on a Saturday, when sometimes faced with three or four high-quality meetings, those people can still only get to one track. However, there are sometimes so many good meetings on a Saturday they actually end up going nowhere and instead simply watch everything on television. What you are then left with are uncommitted racegoers with minimal interest in what happens.
We have saturated the sport with rubbish racing, especially midweek. Real racing fans don't want to go to see it because, with the exception of those who have runners, it doesn't really mean anything to anyone. You certainly wouldn't find me watching Kempton on a Wednesday night if I wasn't riding there. Tracks like Chelmsford have actually said some of what they put on isn't intended to attract people through the turnstiles. I'm sure there are quite a few tracks who don't even really want racegoers because it's cheaper if they don't turn up.
TOO many people who are in racing and love racing are now getting fed up with the game. The sad truth is the biggest cause of that is racing itself. I can't help but think racing is one of those sports you either like or you don't like - and it has survived for centuries on that basis. Those people who do like it are the ones who will make an effort to attend in midweek, perhaps in the evening after work.
Maybe I'm just old-fashioned - I'm one of those who keeps banging the ‘Derby should be on a Wednesday' drum. However, even if we can't free our greatest race from competing with what are already congested sporting weekends, we can surely beef up a few midweek days.
There are far too many weeks in the year when jockeys, and I'm sure racing fans as well, end up wishing their time away trying to get to Saturday. Yet then, come the weekend, a jockey like myself is faced with having to pick between two, three or four meetings, which creates enormous problems for trainers, never more so than on the ridiculous July Cup Saturday. All too often during the week all we get is run-of-the-mill rubbish.
The whole fixture list is full of too much bad racing. It devalues everything. The more oil there is on the market the less expensive it becomes. To increase the value of oil there needs to be less of it for sale.
The same is true of racing. Less really can be more if what you get rid of is the stuff that leaves real racing fans cold.
Part of the problem is racecourses having too much power, so maybe something could be done to make staging racing on a Saturday more expensive for the tracks? In Hong Kong and India people chomp at the bit for midweek meetings, often staged after they have finished work. That's what needs to happen here.
What we certainly don't need is to lose another major fixture like Brigadier Gerard night from its midweek home. If Sandown move it, the group most annoyed will be the ones who already love racing, the ones racing's rulers should have at the front of their minds all the time.
There is something very wrong if trying to attract new people costs you the ones you've already got. The powers that be need to be thinking about that - and the bigger picture - as opposed to immediate profit.
AS EVER, Brigadier Gerard night at Sandown more than lived up to its billing of being the best evening fixture of the year and one of the leading single-day midweek meetings in the calendar. I am therefore incredibly disappointed there is talk of switching the card to a Saturday.
It's true the Sandown grandstands were not heaving on Thursday night, just as they never have been for this high-quality evening's entertainment. That is a shame, but at the same time you can pretty much guarantee the vast majority of those who did go were committed racing fans who appreciate the fact the Brigadier Gerard Stakes, Henry II Stakes and National Stakes, not to mention the Heron Stakes and Whitsun Cup, are packaged together to form a cracking, and sadly all too unusual, midweek treat. I know loads of people who went on Thursday and had been looking forward to it for ages.
Those who went to Sandown are examples of some of the most important people in this sport. They are the ones who buy the Racing Post, watch Channel 4 every Saturday, press 415 or 432 on their remote controls on a regular basis and make an effort to go racing. They are the customers racing already has, yet all too often the sport is guilty of annoying and alienating these people in an effort to bring in a different, younger crowd. In my opinion that is a massive mistake.
Tons of money and time seem to go into attracting new people to racecourses, the vast majority of whom have no interest in the sport and never will have. That would be fine if it were not for the fact that by trying to please the new racegoers those responsible upset the existing ones, a prime example being the moving of quality fixtures from midweek slots to Saturdays.
The most important people to a trainer are owners. The trainer has to look after owners as well as he or she possibly can. They have to come first, just as any business will always consider the needs and interests of faithful, existing customers before potential new ones, especially if the needs and interests of those existing customers differ from the perceived needs and interests of the potential new ones.
The Sandown crowd on Thursday was different to the crowd the track will get for its upcoming summer music nights. The Brigadier Gerard racegoers went because they are enthusiastic, loyal lovers of racing who were attracted by the finest evening meeting of the year and a relatively rare chance to enjoy some top-notch midweek action.
To get the next generation of racegoers we all hear about, racecourses think they should put all their goodies in a Saturday basket. From what I've seen, what that often leads to is racecourses simply being full of stag and hen parties.
One of the biggest complaints of racing's core fan base is the bias towards Saturdays in the staging of the top meetings. People who love racing love to see good racing, but on a Saturday, when sometimes faced with three or four high-quality meetings, those people can still only get to one track. However, there are sometimes so many good meetings on a Saturday they actually end up going nowhere and instead simply watch everything on television. What you are then left with are uncommitted racegoers with minimal interest in what happens.
We have saturated the sport with rubbish racing, especially midweek. Real racing fans don't want to go to see it because, with the exception of those who have runners, it doesn't really mean anything to anyone. You certainly wouldn't find me watching Kempton on a Wednesday night if I wasn't riding there. Tracks like Chelmsford have actually said some of what they put on isn't intended to attract people through the turnstiles. I'm sure there are quite a few tracks who don't even really want racegoers because it's cheaper if they don't turn up.
TOO many people who are in racing and love racing are now getting fed up with the game. The sad truth is the biggest cause of that is racing itself. I can't help but think racing is one of those sports you either like or you don't like - and it has survived for centuries on that basis. Those people who do like it are the ones who will make an effort to attend in midweek, perhaps in the evening after work.
Maybe I'm just old-fashioned - I'm one of those who keeps banging the ‘Derby should be on a Wednesday' drum. However, even if we can't free our greatest race from competing with what are already congested sporting weekends, we can surely beef up a few midweek days.
There are far too many weeks in the year when jockeys, and I'm sure racing fans as well, end up wishing their time away trying to get to Saturday. Yet then, come the weekend, a jockey like myself is faced with having to pick between two, three or four meetings, which creates enormous problems for trainers, never more so than on the ridiculous July Cup Saturday. All too often during the week all we get is run-of-the-mill rubbish.
The whole fixture list is full of too much bad racing. It devalues everything. The more oil there is on the market the less expensive it becomes. To increase the value of oil there needs to be less of it for sale.
The same is true of racing. Less really can be more if what you get rid of is the stuff that leaves real racing fans cold.
Part of the problem is racecourses having too much power, so maybe something could be done to make staging racing on a Saturday more expensive for the tracks? In Hong Kong and India people chomp at the bit for midweek meetings, often staged after they have finished work. That's what needs to happen here.
What we certainly don't need is to lose another major fixture like Brigadier Gerard night from its midweek home. If Sandown move it, the group most annoyed will be the ones who already love racing, the ones racing's rulers should have at the front of their minds all the time.
There is something very wrong if trying to attract new people costs you the ones you've already got. The powers that be need to be thinking about that - and the bigger picture - as opposed to immediate profit.
read it about an hour ago,nothing new and enlightening just common sense, not sure if he would have said it if he wasn't retiring. Has to be a chance the BHA do him for remarks prejudicial against Racing or bringing the sport into disrepute. They shouldn't but I expect they will. Classic observations on Chelmsford, they don't even want racegoers. So who are they putting the dross on for then? If he wasn't riding he wouldn't even look at Kemptons night fayre, fair play to the man.
Nobody who understands the appeal of racing could possibly disagree with the thrust of Hughsie's argument.
but the shareholders want to maximize ££££££££££££...they aint ar$ed about tradition and anoraks who buy a cup of tea at a push..you're all whistling in the wind, i'm afraid
The Australian Chief Executive of the BHA - Paul Bittar - came up with the idea of cramming ALL these competitive Handicaps onto Saturday cards 
-
It is how they do it 'down under'.
Just like all meddling Chef Executives - he has now moved on - no doubt adding this 'achievement' to his CV - whilst being blissfully unconcerned about the carnage that has been created.
-It is how they do it 'down under'.
Just like all meddling Chef Executives - he has now moved on - no doubt adding this 'achievement' to his CV - whilst being blissfully unconcerned about the carnage that has been created.
As far as I can see the column is for the most part a mouthpiece for owners, trainers and jocks. Only the order seems to change.
I presume in the World according to Hughes 'racing fans' are also punters? I am sure that they are not too bothered if jocks are messing up every half-hour on a Wednesday as opposed to a Saturday. Sort that little problem out and we might be making a little bit of progress. If I was a first time racegoer and I saw jocks easing off with a couple of furlongs to run (do athlete's stop to a walk if they can't win - imagine viewing that) or not bothering to ride out for places (anyone spring to mind?) I might think twice about coming back.
I presume in the World according to Hughes 'racing fans' are also punters? I am sure that they are not too bothered if jocks are messing up every half-hour on a Wednesday as opposed to a Saturday. Sort that little problem out and we might be making a little bit of progress. If I was a first time racegoer and I saw jocks easing off with a couple of furlongs to run (do athlete's stop to a walk if they can't win - imagine viewing that) or not bothering to ride out for places (anyone spring to mind?) I might think twice about coming back.
the points made about the effects of moving all the best races to saturdays are obvious and valid but is there a collective will to reverse the process? i think most of the 'saturday' crowd would still attend if there were 7 x Class 6 maidens/handicaps so why the courses would move their best races to get lost in the crowd is beyond me and if there were an argument for moving the best races, why not to Sundays where despite promises to the contrary from the authorities and racecourses alike, there are probably less than 10 decent meetings in the whole YEAR!
i've got nothing against the 'stag and hen' parties, but i generally choose to attend the less crowded meetings which means I miss many at York for example which is a shame because it is such a fabulous course in all other respects, but on a saturday, the stands are awash with spilt lager and plastic cups and various persons of the 'right' demographic hardly capable of standing up!
i've got nothing against the 'stag and hen' parties, but i generally choose to attend the less crowded meetings which means I miss many at York for example which is a shame because it is such a fabulous course in all other respects, but on a saturday, the stands are awash with spilt lager and plastic cups and various persons of the 'right' demographic hardly capable of standing up!
Some are too quick to condemn the "Saturday race crowd". It's not my cup of tea anymore but my early visits to the races where as part of Working Mens Clubs trips and in the 80s most of my visits were on a Saturday with mates who were otherwise working in the week. You'll find many footie fans who's time predates the Premier League will criticise the hold TV now has on kick off times and the "gentrification" of the game by the clubs and the consequent lack of atmosphere that smaller crowds use to generate before.
If racing just catered for "true" racing fans then overall I have doubts that it would be in any better position than it is now.
I agree with Duncan that the Saturday clash problem is more brought about by when the courses want to race than BHA planning. If Chester and Haydock thought that racing on the same Saturday would have financial detriment then do you think they would still do it?
If racing just catered for "true" racing fans then overall I have doubts that it would be in any better position than it is now.
I agree with Duncan that the Saturday clash problem is more brought about by when the courses want to race than BHA planning. If Chester and Haydock thought that racing on the same Saturday would have financial detriment then do you think they would still do it?
But if you let the courses have their way, you end up with pure rubbish racing from Monday to Friday, and Sunday. Is that ok?
dont get it, if the stands were empty who would be upset if the meeting was moved to a saturday,no horse running at sandown would have ran last weekend or this weekend,the last 2 saturdays must be the worst saturdays of the flat season,if its races clash thing start meetings at 12 and some twighlight starts,this sat used to be an early start at beverley to cater for the fa cup final
a side issue on my post last week about not having a saturday bet for the 1st time in years i never had one yesterday, the york card for a saturday york card was embarassing
a side issue on my post last week about not having a saturday bet for the 1st time in years i never had one yesterday, the york card for a saturday york card was embarassing
They mess with everything for the simple reason to screw more money out of the sport
An extra two days at cheltenham is top example , gone from a three day meet packed with highest quality to a five day packed with poor h,cps etc
Putting derby on a saturday means its just something crammed in on a busy saturday afternoon rather than being isolated and sticking out supremely on midweek
its such a shame , once great iconic racing days and meetings are being diluted and becoming tasteless as is racing in general with the amount of poor racing
A few years ago i could not wait for derby day , it was on wed and you could take in the atmosphere , build up etc , now its just another race on a saturday with 10 mins devoted to it beforehand by faceless presenters
An extra two days at cheltenham is top example , gone from a three day meet packed with highest quality to a five day packed with poor h,cps etc
Putting derby on a saturday means its just something crammed in on a busy saturday afternoon rather than being isolated and sticking out supremely on midweek
its such a shame , once great iconic racing days and meetings are being diluted and becoming tasteless as is racing in general with the amount of poor racing
A few years ago i could not wait for derby day , it was on wed and you could take in the atmosphere , build up etc , now its just another race on a saturday with 10 mins devoted to it beforehand by faceless presenters
It depends on which angle you are coming from as to whether the plethora of good meetings on a Saturday is a good thing or not.
We have to accept that for those at the top of the sport then it isn't but for jockeys who are struggling it may give them some rides they would not have had.
The racecourses benefit by having bigger crowds. I'm sure that if I was stuck in an office Mon- Fri then I would appreciate the major races on a Saturday.
I don't like it as it is but from my own perspective I think that might be to do with having ATR/RUK and that is the reason the big meetings get diluted because 10 min after The Derby I will be watching a race from another meeting. Why can't I ignore RUK on Derby Day and watch C4? The answer is because it is not a good enough programme.
The bigger problem is the poor midweek action. The whole Flat season needs a revamp at the moment and there should be 1 class meeting on each day Wed-Sun
We have to accept that for those at the top of the sport then it isn't but for jockeys who are struggling it may give them some rides they would not have had.
The racecourses benefit by having bigger crowds. I'm sure that if I was stuck in an office Mon- Fri then I would appreciate the major races on a Saturday.
I don't like it as it is but from my own perspective I think that might be to do with having ATR/RUK and that is the reason the big meetings get diluted because 10 min after The Derby I will be watching a race from another meeting. Why can't I ignore RUK on Derby Day and watch C4? The answer is because it is not a good enough programme.
The bigger problem is the poor midweek action. The whole Flat season needs a revamp at the moment and there should be 1 class meeting on each day Wed-Sun
the same amount of tv time probably more is alloted to the derb y, 90 min morning line thuis year,if you mean you actualy go to epsom what does it matter to you if there are a dozen other meeting taking place once your there,over 100,ooo now go to the deby when was the last wed derby that came even close to getting 100,000 to attend
as for saturated saturdays,bank holiday mondays are now virtualy instantly forgetable as far as punting goes,so are the 4 or 5 concentrated meetings providing better or worse racing than when there were a dozen plus meetings on a bank holiday mon
as for saturated saturdays,bank holiday mondays are now virtualy instantly forgetable as far as punting goes,so are the 4 or 5 concentrated meetings providing better or worse racing than when there were a dozen plus meetings on a bank holiday mon
the game is run for the big 4 the BHB are in bed with them and getting well shafted
Ist time poster
fair point on attendance
But i would bet the wed crowd had a far higher % of racing enthusiast than the 100,000 on the saturday
Also the average person tuning in at home wouldnt get half as much from watching it on sat as they would from it being on a wed
"and golden horn takes the blue ribband with jack hobbs in second , we will find out who got third after this class 6 at lingfield "
fair point on attendance
But i would bet the wed crowd had a far higher % of racing enthusiast than the 100,000 on the saturday
Also the average person tuning in at home wouldnt get half as much from watching it on sat as they would from it being on a wed
"and golden horn takes the blue ribband with jack hobbs in second , we will find out who got third after this class 6 at lingfield "
If Epsom and Lingfield were to be racing the same afternoon then the world really has gone mad !
I cannot disagree, thebeg. Blimey, glad I don't have that attitude to life...must be a miserable old world on Planet Hello.
FYI all you lot harking back to a Wednesday Derby need to take the "rose****" spectacles off as Inverdale would say. Yes it was great up to the 80s but forget about people hanging over the fence a mile out in Shergar's Derby and spool forward to Quest For Fame's....when there were two double deckers and some wayward bog roll in the middle. The race had lost its way and was, sadly, on its arse.
Can't have a big event without a big crowd. Afficionados, party-animals, holidaymakers, racing has to be a broad church to survive.
The Derby is fine and doing well on a Saturday, there are another 4 meetings on the afternoon and 2 in the evening.
The Derby's atmosphere can't possibly live up to the 19th Century when Frith painted the scenes on the Downs.
There were pimps,prostitutes,card sharps,pickpockets,drunks,fortune tellers ,the aristocracy and every other walk of low life mingling together.
I went to the Derby in 1975,76 and 77 and there was a great buzz ,both in the car parks beforehand and on the Downs.Went again in 1981 when to be honest it was too hot a day to be enjoyable but haven't been since.Used to enjoy seeing the line up of topless buses on the infield but have to agree the race hit rock bottom in the late 80s and hasn't recovered. Aintree also went through a similar decline yet look at it nowadays,a great success. Some innovative thinking is required and if that means running the race in July then so be it.
There were pimps,prostitutes,card sharps,pickpockets,drunks,fortune tellers ,the aristocracy and every other walk of low life mingling together.
I went to the Derby in 1975,76 and 77 and there was a great buzz ,both in the car parks beforehand and on the Downs.Went again in 1981 when to be honest it was too hot a day to be enjoyable but haven't been since.Used to enjoy seeing the line up of topless buses on the infield but have to agree the race hit rock bottom in the late 80s and hasn't recovered. Aintree also went through a similar decline yet look at it nowadays,a great success. Some innovative thinking is required and if that means running the race in July then so be it.
We all know its easy to look back on things through Rose tinted glasses ..But in the case of Horse Racing I believe it really was different Class years ago .. Especially the Standard of Jockeyship which nowadays is absolutely Rank .. The Total overkill of racing is destroying the game .. The unlimited Daily Dross is a Total turn off and Borefest .. You even have to wonder are the jockeys and trainers not as good these days or are their minds on other things such as exchanges.. Anyone reading the Hughes article who was involved in racing years ago would all agree with what he as to say, there are many people like myself who went racing most days , but hardly recognise the game these days , so as a consequence even though they still love racing , barely give it a second glance these days...Oh Well, Watcha gonna do . The Games Up ..So Sad.
Jockey Club Race Courses made £20m last year, a fair percentage from after meet pop concerts !
You would honestly think, reading some of these thoughts, that the likes of Brighton and Plumpton used to have amazing programmes and it's all has the @rse ripped out of it. I've been going racing since the early 80s and don't remember the vast majority of these tracks being anything other than they are now. There are one or two exceptions that mainly fall within a certain racecourse group but it's a long way from some sort of nationwide nosedive. Crap horses have always been crap horses and they've always been accommodated on certain tracks.
posy - the Derby's undergone a massive revival over the last 15 years, have you not been watching?
posy - the Derby's undergone a massive revival over the last 15 years, have you not been watching?
Of course there as always been bad horses running , but they were never catered for in such a way , as in recent years, where they now are so prominent in daily racing.
The Headmaster - You are correct.
However - even Brighton had some decent races - like the Summer Cup, etc -
But I still detested the place for punting, because of the configuration of the course.
Likewise Epsom - Apart from the fact that the Derby is run there, they could, or should, shut the place down for me.
However - even Brighton had some decent races - like the Summer Cup, etc -
But I still detested the place for punting, because of the configuration of the course.
Likewise Epsom - Apart from the fact that the Derby is run there, they could, or should, shut the place down for me.
rather than lambasting the bha and courses people should be thanking them,without the forsight of concerts,fine dining,corporate,ladie days etc,racing would be finished as a spectator sport today, other sports,all day pop festivals,casino nights, etc are waiting in the wings to pick up these people that the racing snobs,regulars etc seem to dislike,anyone thinking there wernt scuffles at the races 30 yrs ago has rose tinted glasses on again
everyone up in arms about courses wanting to 'screw more money out of the sport' but you've all just voted for a government which fully supports the free market economy...every other business in this country is encouraged to screw the last penny out of whoever they can...why are racecourses going to act differently?
if there were an argument for moving the best races, why not to Sundays where despite promises to the contrary from the authorities and racecourses alike, there are probably less than 10 decent meetings in the whole YEAR!
Gordon, you just will not sell as much booze in the bars on a sunday in this country, so courses arent interested...there's just not as much money in family fun days (family of 4 go and have 4 ice creams and the odd drink versus group of lads/lasses go and have 5 pints each)
if there were an argument for moving the best races, why not to Sundays where despite promises to the contrary from the authorities and racecourses alike, there are probably less than 10 decent meetings in the whole YEAR!
Gordon, you just will not sell as much booze in the bars on a sunday in this country, so courses arent interested...there's just not as much money in family fun days (family of 4 go and have 4 ice creams and the odd drink versus group of lads/lasses go and have 5 pints each)
To sum up..
Too many top class meetings on a Saturday - feck me there should be one stand out and one slightly lesser one..The other two should be from the bread and butter tracks..
More proper meetings in midweek as that is when the real punters emerge.
Make sure that the meetings are organised geographically..No more Haydock Chester etc..
No more Racing For Change -That bald midget should be sent packing
Not exactly rocket science...
Too many top class meetings on a Saturday - feck me there should be one stand out and one slightly lesser one..The other two should be from the bread and butter tracks..
More proper meetings in midweek as that is when the real punters emerge.
Make sure that the meetings are organised geographically..No more Haydock Chester etc..
No more Racing For Change -That bald midget should be sent packing
Not exactly rocket science...
Dunc, I think the majority of courses put their profits back into racing with the Jockey Club ones being the most obvious. Think ARC is the only public company running courses for profit as it were.
most jockeys pure dross these days compared to yester year
piggot
cauthen
eddery
carson
kinnane
countless others
can anyone name 5 top ones to day
hughes
moore
obrien dont think so
piggot
cauthen
eddery
carson
kinnane
countless others
can anyone name 5 top ones to day
hughes
moore
obrien dont think so
most jockeys pure dross these days compared to yester year
piggot
cauthen
eddery
carson
kinnane
countless others
can anyone name 5 top ones to day
hughes
moore
obrien dont think so
piggot
cauthen
eddery
carson
kinnane
countless others
can anyone name 5 top ones to day
hughes
moore
obrien dont think so
Have to say homefortea succinctly sets out the logical base criteria for a fixture list. The problem is that the courses are concentrating on their own little worlds thus ignoring the big picture.
The Pies, take your point but ARC is responsible for 40% of fixture list (adnmittedly lower end).
As for Jockey Club Racecourses, tho they do reinvest profits into racing, making those profits still seems to be the MO:-
'Jockey Club Racecourses operates a diversified portfolio of 15 racecourses in the UK. Its strategic objective is to be the best racecourse operator in Europe in terms of profitability and promotion of the best quality flat, jump and all weather track racing, thereby maximising the funds available for re-investment in the long term development of its venues and the sport in general.'
As for Jockey Club Racecourses, tho they do reinvest profits into racing, making those profits still seems to be the MO:-
'Jockey Club Racecourses operates a diversified portfolio of 15 racecourses in the UK. Its strategic objective is to be the best racecourse operator in Europe in terms of profitability and promotion of the best quality flat, jump and all weather track racing, thereby maximising the funds available for re-investment in the long term development of its venues and the sport in general.'
One of the reasons i've given up flat membership at Sandown is that on the dreadful music nights there is no enclosure segregation and the riff raff are free to wander into the premier enclosure.Many of the people who attend these evenings have little interest in the racing and it's noticeable that some are still arriving at the course half an hour or so before the last race ! All they want to do is sink pints of lager prior to the performance ;the racing is an irrelevance. Racecourses are experts in alienating their core audience and shooting themselves in the foot.
Amazing to see Hughes use punters to forward his agenda seeing as he couldn't care less about punters when riding. The whole thing revolves around him having to choose a particular meeting over another. That's all he's concerned about, not the actual good of racing. Pathetic man.
good morning headmaster
don't wish to nit pick but the bog roll was troys derby {jimnast}
as onlooker pointed out about brighton having better races cacoathese probably spelt wrong the guy harwood horse sent of 2nd fav in the 89 derby won his derby prep at brighton.
don't wish to nit pick but the bog roll was troys derby {jimnast}
as onlooker pointed out about brighton having better races cacoathese probably spelt wrong the guy harwood horse sent of 2nd fav in the 89 derby won his derby prep at brighton.
duncan, it seems you are saying racecourses are only interested in bar profits and whilst there's clearly a stag/hen/ladies day market for that, it will soon ruin the core business as there are many cheaper and warmer places to go and get lathered than a racecourse
if there were an argument for moving the best races, why not to Sundays where despite promises to the contrary from the authorities and racecourses alike, there are probably less than 10 decent meetings in the whole YEAR!
Gordon, you just will not sell as much booze in the bars on a sunday in this country, so courses arent interested...there's just not as much money in family fun days (family of 4 go and have 4 ice creams and the odd drink versus group of lads/lasses go and have 5 pints each)
if there were an argument for moving the best races, why not to Sundays where despite promises to the contrary from the authorities and racecourses alike, there are probably less than 10 decent meetings in the whole YEAR!
Gordon, you just will not sell as much booze in the bars on a sunday in this country, so courses arent interested...there's just not as much money in family fun days (family of 4 go and have 4 ice creams and the odd drink versus group of lads/lasses go and have 5 pints each)
ffs posy and his ilk wise up ,racecourses arnt ailenating their core customers,theres wasnt enough of them to ailenate thats why they went down this route,you lot have got it the wrong way round its the concerts,corporate,stags,hens etc which are keeping the game afloat,if racecourses were forced to make a decesion between the so call regular racegoer and the concerts i,m afraid its the concerts that would prevail
as for attracting the real racegoer midweek,ffs how many racegoers do you think are chomping at the bit to leave there laptop and armchair to go racing on a regular basis,if its more than a 100 a day i,d be amazed,if an epl chairmen came out and said his team were going to play weekday afternoons they,d cart him off in white coats,as for sundays betting on a sunf
day like shopping is still a no,no to some,theres also getting up for work the following day for most,seems to me plenty on here for one reason or another have plenty of free time on their hands midweek unlike 99% of those who go racing on saturdays
as for attracting the real racegoer midweek,ffs how many racegoers do you think are chomping at the bit to leave there laptop and armchair to go racing on a regular basis,if its more than a 100 a day i,d be amazed,if an epl chairmen came out and said his team were going to play weekday afternoons they,d cart him off in white coats,as for sundays betting on a sunf
day like shopping is still a no,no to some,theres also getting up for work the following day for most,seems to me plenty on here for one reason or another have plenty of free time on their hands midweek unlike 99% of those who go racing on saturdays
1st timer how can you write that courses aren't alienating their core customers...I go racing around 60 times a year and am obviously a core customer and at times feel alienated !
It's no long term strategy attracting the plebs with concerts and cheap lager if the dedicated race goer becomes disillusioned and cancels his membership, because one thing you can be sure of is that they'll move on and get their 'fun' elsewhere and that's when the courses will start closing.
It's no long term strategy attracting the plebs with concerts and cheap lager if the dedicated race goer becomes disillusioned and cancels his membership, because one thing you can be sure of is that they'll move on and get their 'fun' elsewhere and that's when the courses will start closing.
and how much do you think courses pull in for memberships as compared to 20,000 paying betweeen 30 and 50 quid a pop for a dozen music nights at headquarters for example, its like the epl compared to the sky money the gate money is miniscule ,clubs would play behind closed doors given a choice between sky money and gate reciepts
ive no idea why racing [snobs],regualrs,core customerswhatever feel alienated by sharing their sport with others,2000 core music fans dont jump up and down screaming about been alienated when there joined by 80,000 others at glastonbury or umpteen other festivals over the summer,or county cricket lovers dont feel alienated by people turning up in fancy dress and getting slaughtered at headingly
ive no idea why racing [snobs],regualrs,core customerswhatever feel alienated by sharing their sport with others,2000 core music fans dont jump up and down screaming about been alienated when there joined by 80,000 others at glastonbury or umpteen other festivals over the summer,or county cricket lovers dont feel alienated by people turning up in fancy dress and getting slaughtered at headingly
What's your solution posy? I think 1st time poster has it right. I enjoy going racing but would rather save the money on petrol, food, gate price and watch it with my laptop and RUK on. So if people like me wont go then you got to get them there somehow.
'Alienated' seems to be another word for 'miserable'
too many fixtures have diluted the core product,the racing,the concerts are just masking the problem which will come to light when people stop going to those or they are put on at some other venue,racecourses dont do anything to encourage people to come racing to do something that they cant do somewhere else
steamship
what do you do with the money you save on petrol food and gate money ?
what do you do with the money you save on petrol food and gate money ?
I don't know foxy but that is £50 I reckon. I own an ex racer and have small shares in another so what I save would go on them.
fair enough steamship I thought you was one of those people who just want to be sensible in the only life we will get.
Steamship I was more comfortable racing when the likes of John Rickman raised his hat to the viewer at the start of an afternoon's televised racing and jockeys apart from Lester called everyone 'sir'. I only exempt Lester because usually one had little idea as to what brief words he did utter ! No doubt many would interpret my views as stand offish or snobbish and they may well be right however in the old days racing was a civilised pastime and enjoyable whether or not one was in the silver ring (where I began racing),tatts or members. In those days Sandown and Kempton attracted large crowds to the evening meetings and the point i'd make is that it was a racing crowd with all that that description encompasses..pickpockets,find the lady scoundrels,showmen tipsters etc. Nowadays the popularity of the sport has declined and of course there are many reasons why including the price of admission,cost of food and drink,and perhaps most important of all the quality of the racing on show.You may be surprised to know that all my serious betting is done on the all weather,but I doubt i've been to ten AW meetings in my life.I want to go flat racing primarily to see better class horses race each other and to meet up with friends for a few drinks and perhaps a meal or decent snack.Am not too bothered about the quality at NH meetings as usually the spectacle of even moderate horses jumping hurdles and fences is wellworth seeing and to be fair most of the crowd are racing aficionados.
What will encourage better quality racing;the answer is simple..better prize money not mixing mediocre racing with pop concerts.
What will encourage better quality racing;the answer is simple..better prize money not mixing mediocre racing with pop concerts.
Great thread guys, with some excellent points raised by a few people - many thanks to Tom Hunt for taking the trouble to post the article.
There are so many pros & cons to consider about the Saturday overkill but I'd prefer two quality fixtures (as well as the dross) as that way the selfish higher echelons like Hughes can't be in two places at once to ride ALL the best horses, thereby giving the second tier & younger brigade opportunities to shine - that said, I was mostly in agreement with the gist of his article.
Sundays are virtually dormant in the British racing calendar as far as the quality goes as there's only the 1000 Guineas & the Greatwood Hurdle of note though there used to be an Ascot fixture (Diadem Stakes) in late September - that's hard to fathom.
PS - as mentioned earlier, it's hugely irritating to see meetings at the likes of Chester & Haydock on the same afternoon...that's rank bad planning, bordering stupidity.
There are so many pros & cons to consider about the Saturday overkill but I'd prefer two quality fixtures (as well as the dross) as that way the selfish higher echelons like Hughes can't be in two places at once to ride ALL the best horses, thereby giving the second tier & younger brigade opportunities to shine - that said, I was mostly in agreement with the gist of his article.
Sundays are virtually dormant in the British racing calendar as far as the quality goes as there's only the 1000 Guineas & the Greatwood Hurdle of note though there used to be an Ascot fixture (Diadem Stakes) in late September - that's hard to fathom.
PS - as mentioned earlier, it's hugely irritating to see meetings at the likes of Chester & Haydock on the same afternoon...that's rank bad planning, bordering stupidity.
The Tory henry's won't change a thing ultimately they are in charge...but if nobody goes they might change their minds
Utterly irrelevant post - Bleedingmad -
- The issue under discussion is nothing to do with ANY Government.
- The issue under discussion is nothing to do with ANY Government.
i've been going racing for more than 30 years and although the on course experience is generally not as pleasant as it once was, i still go around 30 meetings per year in addition to most of the musselburgh meetings where I'm an annual member. During this time, the two worst decisions (IMO) have been
a) increasing the Festival to 4 days (although i did enjoy this year more than the past 5-6 there are still too many non-Championship races) which took the festival from a uniquely intense, dramatic and manageable (reasonable mix of drink/sleep!) to a complete physical/mental/emotional battering! as a result i've not attended the complete festival in 8 years and now focus on tue/wed.
b) the movement of good quality mid-week cards to Saturdays where the very races which sponsors/courses wanted in their shop window, have been lost in the noise of other good races and more worryingly and in longer term more damaging, multitude of other sporting events
i'm not sure if the demise of Nothern Jump racing can also be traced to b) above but Haydock, Wetherby, Carlisle and others used to have many of their top jump races at mid-week meetings
From a Scottish perspective, I have seen huge improvements in facilities, prize money and associated quality of racing apart from Ayr which is G1 in name only and falling further behind Musselburgh and Kelso in particular and they seem to have made these improvements by focusing on the racing itself with a few top up events in the summer, pretty good balance i would say
a) increasing the Festival to 4 days (although i did enjoy this year more than the past 5-6 there are still too many non-Championship races) which took the festival from a uniquely intense, dramatic and manageable (reasonable mix of drink/sleep!) to a complete physical/mental/emotional battering! as a result i've not attended the complete festival in 8 years and now focus on tue/wed.
b) the movement of good quality mid-week cards to Saturdays where the very races which sponsors/courses wanted in their shop window, have been lost in the noise of other good races and more worryingly and in longer term more damaging, multitude of other sporting events
i'm not sure if the demise of Nothern Jump racing can also be traced to b) above but Haydock, Wetherby, Carlisle and others used to have many of their top jump races at mid-week meetings
From a Scottish perspective, I have seen huge improvements in facilities, prize money and associated quality of racing apart from Ayr which is G1 in name only and falling further behind Musselburgh and Kelso in particular and they seem to have made these improvements by focusing on the racing itself with a few top up events in the summer, pretty good balance i would say
Not a single thread on the derby here with 4 days to go
That is pretty telling
May well break attendance records saturday its possible , but other side of coin is the genuine racing fan is losing interest
I welcome change , but a lot of parts of racing that are not broken are being fixed and its taken away from the quality
That is pretty telling
May well break attendance records saturday its possible , but other side of coin is the genuine racing fan is losing interest
I welcome change , but a lot of parts of racing that are not broken are being fixed and its taken away from the quality
That's because all the Derby threads on the antepost forum 
You wouldnt know the derby was on
Hardly any media coverage , not a bit of interest even here on a general racing forum packed with genuine fans of the sport
BHA have turned what was "Derby Day" into the saturday big race , crammed in with probably another 4 meetings and whatever other sport is on
Hughes is correct
Hardly any media coverage , not a bit of interest even here on a general racing forum packed with genuine fans of the sport
BHA have turned what was "Derby Day" into the saturday big race , crammed in with probably another 4 meetings and whatever other sport is on
Hughes is correct
Clare Balding show all about the Derby this week, hello - hope you enjoy it. Although I doubt you will even if you bothered to watch, cos they couldn't get John Porter or Fred Darling on and Lester was busy
I stand corrected headmaster
if claire balding show is devoted to the derby all is well with UK racing
Cue 30 min documentry on Elm Park
if claire balding show is devoted to the derby all is well with UK racing
Cue 30 min documentry on Elm Park
the derby,s not the been the same for years,topics which used to get discussed endlesly now hardly get an airing,
they changed the route across the downs to the start,tend to be smaller fields these days,but where have the....
will it boil over going across to the start
will it act,come down the hill
is there a northern challenger
any syndicate,small time owners having runners
can the jockey ride the course,there were pages and pages pre race about swinburn before shergar
theres no fallon factor visa,vi riding epsom,no cauthen from the front
its just a clique of top owners and trainers sending 1,2 even 3 of their best horses and hope one hits the bullseye,
as said just another race on a saturday and probably not in the top 10 of races your casual punter will turn his attention to on saturday,
answers,no idea,
they changed the route across the downs to the start,tend to be smaller fields these days,but where have the....
will it boil over going across to the start
will it act,come down the hill
is there a northern challenger
any syndicate,small time owners having runners
can the jockey ride the course,there were pages and pages pre race about swinburn before shergar
theres no fallon factor visa,vi riding epsom,no cauthen from the front
its just a clique of top owners and trainers sending 1,2 even 3 of their best horses and hope one hits the bullseye,
as said just another race on a saturday and probably not in the top 10 of races your casual punter will turn his attention to on saturday,
answers,no idea,
havnt even heard 4th in the guinea,s wins the derby this year,
ahgh generous that was a day
ahgh generous that was a day
naval gazer
re decent sunday racing the two you said were 2 out of the 3 I was referring to plus Salisbury on the sunday before royal ascot,however I am quite confident Chepstow sunday 11th October can be added to the good sunday cards.
re decent sunday racing the two you said were 2 out of the 3 I was referring to plus Salisbury on the sunday before royal ascot,however I am quite confident Chepstow sunday 11th October can be added to the good sunday cards.
In the heydays of the Derby - most of the other big meetings and Festivals either didn't exist, or didn't 'register' with racing fans - let alone the general public.
In Calendar order ...
Meydan/Dubai was just a desert.
The Arc only attracted attention from the aficionados.
The Breeder's Cup had barely been thought of.
The Melbourne Cup was something that happened, half a world away, whilst everybody was in bed.
Singaore/Hong Kong Festivals were unheard of
The Japan Cup - what, "they have horse racing in Japan?"
Then there was the Media coverage - both in NEWSPAPERS, which EVERYBODY read, and on television.
There was NO SkySports
NO LIVE TENNIS every week, from around the world
NO LIVE Golf every week, from around the world.
No saturation coverage of Premiership, and European, football - even out of season.
In a nutshell ...
NO, or little, competition for the MEDIA (build-up) coverage.
The Footbal season had long finished - with the Cup Final having been played on the first Saturday in May.
There were fewer Test matches (Series), too.
Now the Media have a multitude of other options to choose from.
No wonder they have ditched the Derby until just 'on the day'.....
- and it will be forgotten by them, too, by the following Monday.
In Calendar order ...
Meydan/Dubai was just a desert.
The Arc only attracted attention from the aficionados.
The Breeder's Cup had barely been thought of.
The Melbourne Cup was something that happened, half a world away, whilst everybody was in bed.
Singaore/Hong Kong Festivals were unheard of
The Japan Cup - what, "they have horse racing in Japan?"
Then there was the Media coverage - both in NEWSPAPERS, which EVERYBODY read, and on television.
There was NO SkySports
NO LIVE TENNIS every week, from around the world
NO LIVE Golf every week, from around the world.
No saturation coverage of Premiership, and European, football - even out of season.
In a nutshell ...
NO, or little, competition for the MEDIA (build-up) coverage.
The Footbal season had long finished - with the Cup Final having been played on the first Saturday in May.
There were fewer Test matches (Series), too.
Now the Media have a multitude of other options to choose from.
No wonder they have ditched the Derby until just 'on the day'.....
- and it will be forgotten by them, too, by the following Monday.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539