BHA in SPs probe after Grand National row

It is not really clear what this has to do with the BHA. Shouldn't the Starting Price Commission be taking a look?

And journalists, and Betfair (since part of the concern about Shutthefrontdoor in particular was the discrepancy between his price on here and in the ring).

It should be the Gambling Commission - there job is "ensuring that gambling is conducted in a fair and open way"

*their

Its just like Mothers day for florists National Day for the bookies

So how is the SP now arrived at.
Who are the individuals/group responsible .
The general once a year punter who we try to attract to the sport full time hasnt a fookin clue that theyve had their trousers down and been well and truly shafted.

No doubt they will be looking into the SPs of the aw tracks as well??? They are only so say looking into this as it has been highlighted a bit more and will look bad on the sport if ALL of the general public thinks it's all a big con job.

Why can they not have some consistency across the board when it comes to blatant corruption? This includes who they pull in, ban, warn etc. The BHA are a laughing stock and getting worse by the week imo.

What is a joke is that the RP have a comment piece about it yesterday and that appears to have jolted the BHA into action. How bad must the SP lot be if the RP are criticising?! Gambling Commission are a complete and utter joke. The BHA only ever seem to react to things (ie press coverage) and never pre-empt them.

Geoff Banks is spot on when he says how outdated it all is. To paraphrase things have moved on (technology, lifestyles etc) and the ring no longer reflects weight-of-money.

One inept organisation looking into the practices of another inept organisation.

You couldn't make it up.

SPOT ON PARISPIKE!

While they are at it can they please ask those despicable rogues to stop shortening the price of a horse that is just about to be withdrawn. It is just plain corruption!

the s/p market s very weak on course,  why  other than festivals  most tracks  there is less than 1500 paying customer  . bookies  can make any horse any price  for not a lot

Is it the opinion that it was a strong market but the Bookies just took advantage of the day?

Nothing new about any of this as regards shortening up on National day.

The bookmaking industry is a rapaciously commercial animal.

If there is no one prepared to police them, either because they have bought silence, or made industry bodies their partners in crime, they are just going to continue to carry out any underhand practice, wherever they can.

What no one seems to want to talk about, is that because of the obscene gross profits deal with the bookmakers, the BHA, and in turn every sector of the racing industry, benefits from the Grand National over round, and indeed any other piece of bookmaking industry mendacity...

THE ONCOURSE BOOKMAKERS HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG,ITS THE CORRUPT SP SYSTEM THAT IS A FAULT,THE SPS AT MOST TRACKS HAVE LITTLE BEARING ON THE PRICES ACTUALLY ON OFFER IN THE RING!

fasts, so those in the sample who agreed to take bets at under the odds purely on the agreement they would shorten the price even further (despite the prices being over double on here) have done nothing wrong?   

They and the big books are both complicit in price fixing.

I think this SP furore will now be commonplace on all the big handicap races in future.

The bookies EW extra bonus places offered on the 2015 National, probably the worst set of offers I can remember, a few even keeping only 4 places.

This in no doubt driven by falling FOBT and OTC revenues, increased FOBT profit taxation and the new tax legislation reference offshore firms.

I have noticed that the SP manipulation on AW gaff tracks seems to have virtually disappeared, since the AW bookies were warned about it.

IMO, it is also shortsightedness, I can imagine a number of disillusioned once a year punters who at work on Monday had backed Shutthefrontdoor, some saying they got paid out some saying they didn't.   Neither knowing why?

Similarly, those who did get paid, just about getting their money back what what they perceive as a "winner".   How many will be disappointed and may not bother next year, let alone feel inclined to have a bet before then.   If they have been paid at a fair price (or reflection) of its chances, they would have at least had a bit of profit and will have felt more enthused about the whole experience.

Is some of this not down to making the course safer.
Therefore a horse 10 years ago who was a bit of an iffy jumper goes of at 40-1 today 25-1 because you cannot take the risk.
Though with less human input than 10 years ago firms will not take such a risk or a stance.
Half the specials are for 5 minutes at 10p max per customer who has not backed a winner since 1972 or allowed if a chav who backs Manchester United to win each week 3-0 with Wayne Rooney as first scorer.

Nevison talking about it now on R.U.K.

Pompey Dave - fair play to him fronting the bookie response but he is not making a cohesive case....

....he's embaressing himself

He's only contradicted himself about 6 times

he will need a drink tbf...shocking response and not a leg to stand on...

imho because you cannot defend what is going on,if it happened in another industry someone would end up in court

don't back off lydia, push it ffs

He can't wait to GTF outtathere
Would love to hear what he's got to say to Lydia off air for asking him some of those questions.

fair play to Lydia..if it was on ATR..the gravy wouldnt have even gone there...

Fair play to Lydia but in all honesty they skirted around the subject and barely got close to the truth.
She let him off the hook IMO

Interesting that Nevison said that on course bookmakers took the bets from reps on the condition that they shortened the odds.

"We are working within the current system."... that is all they can say

That has always been the way sparrow, if they don't play the game they don't get paid.  Any one Monday night in Kempton in November, with no punters there it is the only way the bookie makes his money.   It works for both parties but not he punters

So really it's nothing to do with a bet from the firms. It's we give you a grand and you go half a point shorter ?

Its bribery,collusion and price rigging and it is illegal.

I knew that this happened, Swardean, but was surprised to hear Nevison say it on air. I have never heard anyone else dare to mention it.

as i said before , it's ridiculous that it is known what bookmakers will have their prices taken from to form the SP

should be random , done by computer or something

Exactly howard, but it is done under the guise of them having a bet.

Rest assured, if you has a £1k bet with the same bookies at 8/1 and it was 12.00 on here, he wouldn't move the price.

Nevison careful to say it was his view not RUK's.

as i said at the time, the 6/1 has just opened up a massive can of worms. 

the diddlers just got carried away, got way too greedy. 

when it went to 7/1 and 13/2 some of them were probably saying that'll do, we've diddled it too much someone will say something.  Others obviously weren't bothered.

is this avoidance of GPT? IE does the bet get struck or not?

It has come to something - and is blindingly obvious EVIDENCE ...

- when even the SCALPING Fred's TOTE BEAT the SP - and for Places, too ... AND {b]BEAT SP[/b]for EVERY RUNNER = often by a country mile, with many TWICE the SP ODDS.

Even the 'Public Pick' AP McCOY's mount was BETTER on the TOTE ... something that would be UNheard of in ordinary races, or, even, a different Saturday television race, week in week out.

1 Many Clouds 25/1 - TOTE = 31.9/1 ... Place: SP - 6.25/1 - TOTE = 7.1/1
2 Saint Are 25/1  ... Place: SP - 6.25/1 - TOTE = 7.4/1
3 Monbeg Dude 40/1  ... Place: SP - 10/1 - TOTE = 10/2/1
4 Alvarado 20/1  ... Place: Sp - 5/1 - TOTE = 9/2

WIN £32.90 PL £8.10, £8.40, £11.20, £5.50

TOTE FORECAST - Paid more than TWICE as much
Ex £1366.90
CSF £584.72
-----------

FULL TOTE and SP comparisons

BETTER TOTE Price (which NORMALLY UNHEARD OF) in Bold ...

7     Shutthefrontdoor    
        8.70     6/1f
4     Rocky Creek    
    9.30     8/1
6      Balthazar King    
    11.10     17/2
38     Soll    
    13.00     10/1
17     The Druids Nephew    
    12.50     10/1
18     Cause Of Causes    
        22.700     14/1
5     First Lieutenant    
    21.10     14/1
3     Unioniste    
    29.20     16/1
19      Godsmejudge    
    21.50    18/1
20     Al Co    
    23.90     18/1
37     Alvarado    
    30.40     20/1
27     Oscar Time    
    31.50     20/1
15     Night In Milan    
        30.20     20/1
2     Many Clouds    
        32.90     25/1
24     Saint Are    
        40.80     25/1
40     Royale Knight    
        37.60     25/1
8     Pineau De Re    
    30.10     25/1
10     Spring Heeled    
    39.70     25/1
9     Ballycasey    
        33.00     8.90     25/1
26     Tranquil Sea    
    172.70     33/1
13     Mon Parrain    
    52.500     33/1
1     Lord Windermere    
        51.90     33/1
11     Rebel Rebellion    
    49.40    33/1
25     Across The Bay    
    62.00     33/1
36     Court By Surprise    
    62.00     33/1
23     The Rainbow Hunter    
    75.10    33/1
21     Monbeg Dude    
    58.60    40/1
32     Chance Du Roy    
        55.50     40/1
34     Owega Star    
    101.90     50/1
28     Bob Ford    
    111.90     50/1
33     Portrait King    
    98.20     50/1
16     Rubi Light    
    78.00     50/1
12     Dolatulo    
    114.30     66/1
22     Corrin Wood    
    137.60     66/1
29     Super Duty    
    78.90     66/1
30     Wyck Hill    
    101.30     66/1
31     Gas Line Boy    
        94.40     66/1
35     River Choice    
        183.30     100/1
39     Ely Brown    
    129.80     100/1

165% was a genuine pi$$take but sadly will go unnoticed by 99% of the nations punters and 99.99% of the gravy train express(media)

Almost makes Wonga look respectable.

Anyone remember ex-Ladbr0kes rep Harry "Boy" White's performance in front of the Panorama cameras at Southwell all those years ago?

Surely the vast majority of on course bookmakers are pricing up in direct and instant correlation to Exchange prices ! ?... We need a new model that is fair and transparent, the on course S P model is out-dated, and easy to manipulate by the High Street firms !


I suppose the problem is ''layer's'' laying ridiculous prices (on the Exchanges) for seemingly ''no hoper's!''

direct correlation when the odds are contracting, when they go back out again on here they just leave theirs where they are ...

In Onlookers example for The National, a ''hook up'' between the Tote and the on course bookmakers would of seemed fair, bearing in mind Fred's margins !   

That's the conundrum Hulk, a suggestion, but we need to get to a much fairer system !

It seems to me that on National day, off course reps are manipulating the market massively in their favour by very small sums of money !


I have a friend who stands at Perry Barr dogs (BAGS), a monkey will contract a 6/4 chance to evens !

Does anybody place SP bets these days?

The vast majority of once a year punters will not ''stop'' the price when they strike their wagers !

According to their own statistics 40% of ladbrokes punters in left the bet to SP

Deano, just alluding to the fact they don't understand the starting price, and, trust the High Street bookmaker, the perception being they're honest !

First time ever a post of mine has disapeared.Cartel,bribery,collusion,price rigging and the OFT mentioned so it must have hit a nail.

Apr 16, 2015 -- 3:04PM, TheVis wrote:

Does anybody place SP bets these days?

If the price is under (the price on the exchange) to begin with and under to finish with, taking a price with the high street firms still means many punters will never get the "true" price of the horse.

Those that accept under prices in the morning (on line in multi's for example) with the offer of best odds guaranteed, probably hope to see the SP reflect the "real" price come settling time.

So there's quite a few quid missing from returns and quite a bit of value not being had even when taking a price. The national is one example, but this has been happening day in day out all over the shop.