why hasnt david pipe been as successful as martin

maybe that's why

other than winning the odd grand national and the odd festival winner here and there, he has been real disappointing

The amount of. Horses that martin used to train that had 111111111111111 in their form was unreal.

times were different (nap)

. Not as much attention drawn to methods...

Martin was a pioneer, other trainers copied his methods............end of story.

^ Oh that it were so simple.

Ask Philip Fenton

I vaguely remember him getting a horse with a row of duck eggs to his name and that horse was in his stable for something like ten days and hey presto won by half the track, not normal I think is the term they use in cycling.

IMO, I would say there are very few better at lining one up for a handicap.

will have a good day today imo

yes, it was not normal to test the horse's blood regularly back then,

but then it's easier to cast doubts when it involves maybe spending a bit of money on their own (other trainers) operations at the time !

PPG, I hope so starting with Del Arca 16/1 ew

Not bad season to be fair..only 5 winners less than Nicholls and above the 20% strike rate benchmark.

Ive backed Ainsi Fideles and Monetaire so hopefully he has good day

tbf I think David is more precocious, plenty of winners at a younger age

I remember a Top Jock telling me about an old that Chaser went To Pipeys late in life, with its south country Trainer it was difficult to get him running into his bridle, it Won once a year,
With Pipey it Took off from the start and won about 6 from 8,
Magic Carrots!.

snorlax

Personally thought Martin was a great trainer who for a few years was streets ahead of anyone else. Considering David took over from a master and had everything to lose he too has performed very well and is also an excellent trainer.

They usted to lead all the way get caught & go away again........

I was more into pro cycling those days...........

True posy - BUT ...

NO other trainer has been able to get horseS to regularly 'run through brick walls' - through the PAIN BARRIER - and ALL level of OFTEN AWFUL beasts, aswell.

Similarly to an example that has been posted above - I spent hours trying to assimilate how he had got hold of one particularly BAD Selling Hurdler - with a record of 'falling out of the back of the television' more often that it managed to finish in mi-field, even.

Then it turned up at Martin's ....

Inside 10 days it 'made all, won hard held' - and went on to rattle up a hat-trick, or the usual 5-timer.

That was not not the only example - It quite simply defied ANY logic - and 'beggared belief' ...

- and STILL DOES.

the trouble is his jockey old skidmore is a useless article all the socalled top jocks drop to the rear and thinks its clever to play a waiting game and try to look as if it was a good ride, they canter to the last and then go arse over tit instead of getting slated by the pundits they say it was unlucky, twits

David doesn't want Roger Cook coming round for tea imo, would eat him out of house and home!

less juice imo

Perhaps David isn't as ambitious as his father.

What's the point?

Shooting Light, on his first run for MC Pipe, winning the 13 runner Host Partnership Chase on October 31 2001 was visually the easiest winner of such a contest that you could ever possibly see - the RP race reader comments say ' soon clear impressive'  but even that fails by a long way to convey the ease with which the horse won with.

Martin was a cross between Howard Johnson & Philip Fenton but he could sure pick the right races for his horses.

The significance of David Johnson's involvement in both of their careers will have had a bearing, adding to that the fact that Pipe Jr took over at a time when trainers like Paul Nicholls was fully established.

OP begs the question: has David been less successful than Martin, and by what criteria?

Here are the numbers of Graded races won per year.

winners	year	trainer
8	96	Martin
3	97	Martin
8	98	Martin
11	99	Martin
7	00	Martin
10	01	Martin
16	02	Martin
12	03	Martin
19	04	Martin
10	05	Martin
6	06	Martin
1	06	David
7	07	David
8	08	David
6	09	David
5	10	David
6	11	David
4	12	David
7	13	David
6	14	David
2	15	David