Dubawi Diamond 4.30 Wolves death - so unnecessary

I only saw the race in the bookies, and obviously they didn't show a replay so I can't really comment. It is a shame, but unfortunately it happens.

Didn't see the race thankfully, but many people have commented on his whip action before, if you feel that strongly about it write to the BHA with your comments, never know they might have a word if it is that bad.

his action is brutal imo, may well look worse than it is but he doesnt appear to leave much behind

Having reviewed it again you are quite correct in your assessment, that smack cost it it's life.

Anyone that thinks the whip caused that injury needs to pack up race watching

Denathorn and anyone else who saw it, sadly we see horses die all too often with no blame attached, but this is a case that cannot be just left unsaid. It was painful to watch once and I had no choice but to check it a few times and I was left in little doubt that the horse would have finished that race alive and well without that brutal 'thump' on his rear flank that set off the chain reaction that caused the fatal problem. I have been involved in racing for many years, and seen some instances of stupid brutality towards horses from a few individuals in the saddle, but imho Morris is to blame here, however unintentional it might have been on his part.

Denathorn.....you cannot be for real lad.......seriously

I backed the horse but couldn't in all honesty say that the jockey was to blame for this.

After watching the race a few times, its impossible to disagree. Surely, SOMEONE will look into it? Well said, Tezza

Very sad sight. The whip was certainly used above shoulder height but the horse as far as I could see just went wrong. I agree that Morris can be a whip happy little bleeder and most of the time falls foul of the rules without any ban. On this occasion, and it is just my own view, the horse succumbed to a tragic accident.

Painful viewing isn't it, Life-Lucky, but someone at the BHA will sort this one out as you simply can't come to any other conclusion if you are able to view it a few times which it seems a few of us have. All too easy to blame someone of course with only the front on view as they come down the straight, but I can't imagine it looks any better for the jockey viewing at any other angle.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=25MQM8XaYwU

The horse 'broke down' - looked like nearside front leg fracture.

Would have more than likely happened, whatever the circumstances.

Very difficult, therefore, to directly contribute tezza's claim.

If tezza's assessment is indeed  correct - Then, surely, many horses would similarly  be being killed several times a day - every day of the week.

- and they would would have been 'dropping like flies' - in the days of Pat Eddery and PIGGOTT!

The visual impression is that strike of the whip has caused it, but you'd have to think there was already an issue there for a fatal injury like that to occur. The strike was the first one and it wasn't as forceful as Morris can sometimes unleash. I also noticed that before the strike the horse had hung to its right off the bend.


I think Morris does get off lightly though with his whip action, for example, when he won on Dutch Art Dealer at Wolver last backend, his mount drifted to its left under typical pressure from Morris, causing Kingscote on Deauville Prince to stop riding in the closing stages and probably costing his mount 3rd place, however the stewards took no action.

Not long after, Morris won on Rock Of Leon at Wolver, again under pressure his mounted drifted to its left causing significant interference to Yorkshireman, who went down by 2 necks, but they only gave Morris 2 days.

But as for today, that looked a freak accident and despite the visual impression, I couldn't describe Morris's single strike of the whip as being 'out of order', for want of a better expression.

If Morris's action wasn't the start of the breakdown it was quite a coincidence

its only a horse that died,if it was the jockey most of the tree huggers on here wouldnt give a fackin toss,they eat horses in france by the way

Looking for a reaction?

The whips are so light and padded these
days the horses are not hurt.
Years ago blood was drawn with the old
whips hitting the horses in the wrong places.

nobody who likes racing wants to see
that but looked like one of those accidents
we get from time to time,probably get those
on the gallops aswell.

Heaven forfend that people who like horseracing should care about horses.

whip action didn't cause stress,leg fracture,in my view

Not often I agree with Francome about his belief that the whip should be removed from racing completely as I do think there are times when it can be a positive in terms of correcting a wayward sort, but if I see another incident like today, it will be one too many. George, with the best will in the world, you could not describe that incident as a freak accident, as Life-Lucky says 'quite a coincidence'. Direct result of the totally unexpected crack the horse received I would say, but everyone is entitled to an opinion even gatt...

It is a horse...

Calm down..

Horses and people die all the time...

Why does this forum attract people that cannot accept death and indeed posters that never have a bet and yet are paid to come on here and have a pop...

Rancid Liberal PAID posters that should get a job...

I'm interested to hear who you think are PAID posters on here, you should be at homefortea with the fairies if you think people are paid to discuss horse racing related stuff on here. The 'it' was a 'he' by the way and although his life expectancy probably wasn't anything like yours, he deserved better than the cards that were dealt to him today

tezza 79 posts in 13 years feck off you paid excuse for a person..

Get a job.

Whilst Morris's action is against the rules, I cannot see how it effected the poor horse, just unfortunately a freak accident .

carrot1960    09 Feb 15 17:53 
Anyone that thinks the whip caused that injury needs to pack up race watching

couldnt agree more..absolute woffle

The old adage 'fools speak because they have to say something' could have been written for homefortea.

Well played on your complete misinterpretation of the thread, which was started because the OP thinks (and not unreasonably having reviewed the incident) that the use of the whip caused the death of a horse, not just because a horse has died.

tezza may be an animal rights activist for all I know, out to stir up trouble, but it happens to be fact that the instant the whip is used the injury occurred and the visual impression is that they are related.

I disagree with tezza's version of events because the one strike with the whip is nothing out of the ordinary, and nothing to constitute a riding offence.

To describe the hit as 'brutal' is a gross exaggeration. As for being knocked off balance, well the horse was bumped when the horse on his right cannoned into him and that was prior to the hit with the whip.

As for:

actually knocked the horse off balance and surprise surprise the colt seemed to react badly to this and appeared to lose his balance totally and his back end with it as he swerved in shock

Can't agree with that because the injury happened instantly at the point of contact with the whip.

But as per my above post, the horse had hung to its right coming off the bend, perhaps suggesting there was an issue already on the left front leg, and hard to believe the use of the whip in this instance, such as it was, could cause such a serious injury. Otherwise as onlooker points out, you'd been having these fatal episodes day in day out when the whip is used.

i think Morris has a brutal whip action, not pleasant on the eye and the way he swings it does him no favours. it may well look a lot worse than it looks though. what interests me more is how quick the surface is riding. i had a conversation with a trainer from Ireland who was particulary scathing about how fast they have it at Dundalk. they have had more than there fair share of injuries. not a time man but maybe its riding a lot faster than it looks, relating more to good to firm turf conditions which might have played a part today. of course it might well have just been a freak accident.

The tracks running consistently faster now so its very consistent as,but no quicker than it was at various points 2 years ago for example Alfred Hutchinson clocked up 1m46.07 in January 2013 nothing as yet this season has got within 1/2 second of that time over 1m1/2f and that includes pearl nations win when they went really quick.
There have been some very quick times as well though the 6f race in December won in 1m11.84 by pretend which is quickest recorded time there,there was an exceptionally quick time by ready on Saturday only rated 75 in 1m47.01 which with proximity of other runners suggests at times it could get even quicker..

cheers

I'm sure the centralised BHA panel will check this one out, especially if they read this thread (ignoring the fools' comments of course as mentioned), which I intend to make sure they do. Take your point George re the bumping that occurred, and we will never know if Morris hadn't given him that crack exactly what would have happened, but he did and the colt reacted very badly to it I believe which may well have caused the injury as he tried, at probably 30+mph, to actually evade the hit/or even pre-empt the next one. I'm assured that even people connected closely to Morris know he needs to clean/tidy his act up, which is preventing him from riding for the very top owners/trainers. That's no great shock to me, but I haven't noticed a change in his action over the years at all, in fact he's applauded daily for his very active and no prisoners taken style.

By the way, rest assured I'm certainly no animal rights activist, nothing could be further from the truth - I have loved horse racing for over 50 years. But like most sane people I hate to see animals suffer, especially if there is a chance it could be avoided, which is potentially the case here. I had the dubious pleasure once of seeing a top so-called 'hard-man' jockey, also funnily enough connected with the great Sir M P, lay into a horse before the start of a race at Brighton giving her backhanders across the head repeatedly after she had simply leant forward to pick at grass at the start of a race which clearly caught him by surprise and almost unshipped him. I was there with a Jockey Club inspector, who just happened to conveniently turn a blind eye to this when I asked him whether he had watched the incident and the structure of the starting stalls supposedly stopped the authorities from seeing the full incident on camera afterwards and acting upon it, much to my disappointment.

There appeared to be a period when, for whatever reason, he wasn't riding the Cheveley Park horses that were trained by Sir Mark, but not sure why that was, and he did subsequently start riding for them again.

But I did wonder at the time if that was whip related.

My personal point of view is that there is no blame on the jockey and it was just a tragic accident.

Although the action of the jockey raising and lowering the whip looks extreme he actually tails it off and by the time he hits the horse its more of a flick of the wrist then the full swing connecting.

I also would agree though that the horse would have finished the race without the use of the whip. It looked like when the whip struck the horse caused it become awkwardly balanced. The weight was on  its rear right leg when it got hit, this caused it to misstep and unfortunately breakdown.

A ton of horse on such thin legs is not a design you would do for an animal
then add a 9 stone plus  Jockey ,..that wouldn't happen in nature, and we breed them for speed
and gambling on ..If they didn't run so fast we would never have tamed them in the first place
but we do and then feel sorry for them when they die but it wouldn't happen in the wild we
think but it possibly would in rare cases.They are brilliant at climbng up craggy mountains
if they are Mustangs but we should question how we are breeding them at the moment..imo

looked at the race several times for any clues to why the horse broke down the way it did .
Watched a terrible incident in the US Mon night.
Horse broke well and was ridden to be competative ,was soon 4-5 clear ,ridden into the bend and once off the bend the horse broke down on the same leg as DD in horrible fashion flipping over and landing heavily bringing another down in the process .Both this and the one at Wolverhampton were similar and got me thinking .

Watched the wolverhampton incident over a few times as initially i thought the horse had been struck into by either the winner ,who jinked in a bit and had a strange round and out  action on its off hind ,also looked to see if horse on the outside ,who was quite close and had checked DD slightly ,had struck into the DD.
Its hard to see depth properly as the camera is well back and frame speed slow  but it appeared to me no other horse struck into  DD The only conclusion i came to was the horse broke down for no apparent reason unless it struck into itself .It was crowded and being asked to hold its position and was maybe just losing that battle .What i did notice was the near fore went out in a round motion just before it went out of stride and came down .
The damage was done and its fate was sealed ,whether that injury was high in the shoulder ,the knee joint itself or lower or whether the damage was muscle/tendon/bone is unlcear and would be interesting to hear from anyone who could maybe explain .Hope i dont sound morbid or overly interested in this fatality its just if people understood how and why these sort of injuries happen they would not be blaming the jockey imo .

At no point did i think the Jockey was to blame or done anything wrong did not even have a second look from that aspect ,his job is to win a race imo .If anything horse was very slightly checked from outside on the bend but you see a hell of a lot worse and the truth here is the horse had a weakness and it was tested to the max and failed unfortunately proving to be fatal.It could have been worse the jockey could have been killed or injured .

Guys he did not cause the injury ,horse devolped a problem and that is that .

RIP Dubawi Diamond .

Hopefully we can get some feedback from the autopsy and find out what the prob was .Racing round a turn puts extra pressure on certain structures ,the frame,shoulders joints tendons and the feet ,something failed .
On a sidenote if you want Jockeys to start easing the moment a horse feels like it is coming under pressure we wont have a Race as we know it .If the horse is fit and well and there to win the jockeys job is to ask it the question ....to blame him is bad craic .

Thoughts go out  to all connected with the horse

Thanks for all your replies guys, plenty of food for thought on this incident yesterday. Tarooq and I are basically singing from the same hymn sheet when he points out 'I also would agree though that the horse would have finished the race without the use of the whip. It looked like when the whip struck the horse caused it become awkwardly balanced. The weight was on its rear right leg when it got hit, this caused it to misstep and unfortunately breakdown.'

Luke Morris did say pre race to the RP reporter at the track that the horse was 'not straightforward', so it perhaps isn't the biggest shock that the horse reacted in the way he did to the whip hit and what happened subsequently, perhaps something positive can be learnt from this. I haven't had a chance to look at his previous rides on this horse, but will do so shortly. Clarification on exactly what a jockey is allowed to do in terms of technique when using the whip will be something I will ask the BHA about.

tezza - if you are not an Animal Rights plant perhaps you could explain why you devote 7 of your 81 posts in 13 years to this topic?

another horse dies,another statistic.
sad but will not make a jot of difference.....next

i've criticised Morris's whip action on more than one occasion on the forum but the slap he gave that horse was no different to 99% of slaps administered by any jockey in a finish...prob pure coincidence that horse broke down at that point, and even if injury was caused by horse jinking when slapped it could have happened to anyone...thread seems somewhat opportunistic imo..nothing to see here

ps to use the word 'brutal' re. the slap is ridiculous, and it is clear from your opening post that you are NOT a 'very experienced race-watcher'

Sad to read some of the heartless replies on here. Whether it was an accident, a direct result of crowding or excessive/wrong use of whip is not relevant now, to the poor horse. Yes, we breed these animals for gambling, but surely the death of an innocent animal still deserves some condolences. Just heartless when you read, "next" as if the horse was just a machine.

R.I.P DD

very well said gawdalmighty totally agree
very sad no matter what

"CROWDING"

carrot    at ya buddy, not with ya

Check out the following site> http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/ if you really want to be outraged at the Horse Racing game. To pinpoint and single out 1 incident just because of a certain "whip action" is nonsensical. Considering I've seen many more horses breaking down when "running straight" than I have after being whipped. And on Morris's whip action, if you watched closely enough, you would see it is no more "brutal" than the rest of the jockeys who smack their horses around. The bottom line is humans(as the "superior" species) do and will continue to use&abuse all other forms of life to our benefit/entertainment. In an ideal world we'd have zero horse casualties..but sadly we don't live in an ideal world..and so horses will continue to break down(legs snapping like the twigs they are, as they're FORCED to carry humans around at high speeds) and they'll continue to be treated as nothing more than disposable commodities.

they are well looked after and I don't
think their lad/lass looks at them as
disposable commodites.

most regular followers of the sport have genuine affection for horses in general and certain individual racehorses in particular, and i defy anyone to go to Cheltenham next month and tell me that it is only about betting

bottom line to all the antes like prosniper, tho, is: No horse-racing, No racehorses...is that what you want?

Feb 10, 2015 -- 3:12PM, duncan idaho wrote:

most regular followers of the sport have genuine affection for horses in general and certain individual racehorses in particular, and i defy anyone to go to Cheltenham next month and tell me that it is only about bettingbottom line to all the antes like prosniper, tho, is: No horse-racing, No racehorses...is that what you want?

What about an entire ban on the use of whips? What about lowering the hurdles/fences to significantly reduce the number of falls/fatalities? Realistically that won't happen, and for what reasons? When you answer those questions you'll understand why horses are mere commodities used by humans for personal/collective enjoyment/gains. To dress it up in any other way means you're simply kidding yourself.

Pro-sniper - to post "what about lowering the hurdles/fences to significantly reduce the number of falls/fatalities" demonstrates how little you know about the sport you despise.

Yea yea I know nothing about the sport I "despise". Everything is rosy. The horses are thoroughly enjoying themselves and everything possible is being done to assure they return home safely bla bla bla

The shame is thats racing. When these horses(who are equine athletes)get injuries just like human athletes. Because of the nature of the sport many happen only at high speed which finds the weakness that may have been there for a while and gone unnoticed because it did'nt show before. We lost one of our horses recently and everyone was devastated including the jockey. So, lets not be too hasty to allocate blame because we do not have crystal balls to see the future.

ProSniper I am a lover of horses and was at the stables on Saturday feeding the horses carrots. I know and accept that we use these for our own benefit, yet I would rather come back as a racehorse than most other animals. You should go to stables and see what it is like. I also agree that humans make animals suffer but we also make other humans suffer.

Most of us on here love the horse a swell as the gambling.

Hopefully something positive will come of this unfortunate incident, which after watching again on today's ATR review, still makes very unpleasant viewing and I still maintain is a good example of what can happen if the sport isn't regulated properly race by race. Enough has been said about blame and/or freak accident on here, whatever your individual view is, but I will say that, quite ironically, this was about the only occasion on the day that the jockey in question didn't break the whip rules which state quite clearly that you must not hit a horse with the whip used above shoulder height more than once in a race - if you do so twice in a race, you are supposed to be facing a minimum of a two day ban and presumably more days if you have gone over that amount. 

On viewing the replays today, the rules appeared to be broken on a number of occasions at Wolverhampton yesterday by this rider, the worst of which was meted out to his last mount which finished 2nd in the 5.30, Happydoingnothing, who copped at least 8 over the shoulder whip hits from around the home turn, yet no bans were issued to any jockey on the day by the stewards there. Hopefully, whoever was responsible at BHA HQ for Aidan Coleman's rule-breaking effort at Chepstow being investigated can't fail but do something about this retrospectively too, as the stewards and the stipe on course advising them must be either a very forgiving ensemble who are overdosing on their use of their discretionary powers or are frankly not up to the job. Check the race out for yourself if you don't believe me, it's a sad but all too frequent pattern of behaviour on the day. Coincidentally, the horse/rider in question is actually 'highlighted' on the still shot at the very end of the 5.30 replay on the ATR website, which has captured him administering one of the hits in the home straight, it makes interesting viewing even on a still.

Totally disagree that the horse was off balance or that the whip strike (not administered with any velocity in this instance regardless of take back) made any difference to the incident.

The whip strike merely coincided with the horse elevating its near fore unnaturally off the surface because of the frailty of the previous step.

rules which state quite clearly that you must not hit a horse with the whip used above shoulder height

that's not correct, the whip can go above shoulder height it's the whip arm that cannot, perhaps that's why you seem to think so many are breaking the rules?

http://www.thepja.co.uk/members-info/regulatory/useofwhip/ is where I checked out the usage rules and penalties for misuse, and it actually doesn't state on there that I can see anyway, re the whip arm. Not that this makes a scrap of difference in Luke Morris' case, as both his arm and whip are above shoulder height when he has used the whip in any number of races mentioned from Wolves on the 9th and at Southwell again today too - it's quite interesting to compare the height his arm is above shoulder compared to the other riders in those races yesterday. The other riders to a man/woman at least yesterday when resorting to the whip were keeping their arm below the shoulder and within the rules. Not saying there aren't others doing it on a regular or irregular basis as well, but on yesterday's evidence, rules were broken virtually race by this rider but no enquiry was recorded throughout the afternoon involving this breach of rules.

pja is not the bha , if you're going to hang someone it makes sense to understand what you're hanging them for and as it's the basis for your argument it's probably worth getting your facts right

I would hope the PJA would get their facts right for their members, and would reproduce the rules for their members accurately. What's your take on all this then, whip arm included?

my take would be that once you've established it's arm above shoulder that is the offence, it would be prudent to check how may times it can happen before it's classed as a rule break

then as "a very experienced race-watcher and have been for many years" i'd decide if i were right

after watching again on today's ATR review,...i still maintain is a good example of what can happen if the sport isn't regulated properly race by race


that's enough to prove you havent got a clue what you're talking about and are mischief making...if you want racing banned, just say so

The striking of the whip on Dubawi Diamond definitely brought about its unfortunate death.
However it was totally unintentional.
I've never seen a horse react in that way previously and I'm 60.
The horse would appear to have been so surprised that his leg action went and he broke the one he was putting pressure on at the time.
Unfortunate but Luke Morris can not be blamed for what was a freak accident brought about by a run-of-the-mill strike of the whip.

Too many paid "Charity" workers on here for my stomach..

My advice to you AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE is get a job.Any job but a real job.

My advice to formites is never give any money to these alleged "Charities"..

Give to your local Hospice and the Salvation Army...

Do not line the pockets of the half-wits...

well said...Homefortea... a lot of people suffering out there too....

'tezza' your posts, from your first to your last, clearly demonstrate an agenda against this particular jockey.

I'm no friend of the jockey nor do I know him personally however I do know a freak accident when I see one - which is what that was. 

I don't own any horses but if I did I would not hesitate in the slightest to put this jockey up.  He seems to try more than plenty of his peers, horses run for him and they clearly don't come back marked or affected in any way as he is just about the most used jockey going in the winter months with seemingly every stable with entries at this time of year happy to use him.

So whatever your agenda is you waited and picked this unfortunate incident to make your assertions on the jock in question public & your real intention in your original post, shines through not only in that but all your efforts subsequently.

I'd suggest you consider your strategy for personal grievances slightly more methodically in future.

Paid "Charity" pros off elsewhere to spin their left wing agendas..

Give them feck all.

whereas you are a right wing paid bore,with a right wing agenda

Cooking and cleaning love...

Come back when you have had a bet.

Steamship, I don't doubt there's many who have a genuine love for the beautiful beasts. I don't have to travel to any stables to see that. One only has to look at the joy that beams from some of the faces of the head lads&lassies when handling them. Unfortunately such affection won't be found among the fat cats who are powered by nothing but greed. Power which is generated by the masses of ignorant beings who selfishly roam this earth. Hand-feeding a horse some carrots doesn't cleanse you from the part you play in sending these horses into uncomfortable&dangerous territory from the start to the finish of their "careers"

I don't doubt for a minute that the impending general election is the main reason their is a stench  waffling across these boards.

There is a million causes that need the attention of genuine decent people ,how about finding one

Man and the horse  go back a long long way ,a lot further than you lot of pseudo animal rights warriors

we have the interests of animals higher on the list than you lot ever will ,in fact if it came to the crunch a would pick a horse over you types every day of the week .

Jog on ,your a great example of everything that's doomed the left to failure ,you lot have destroyed it

A LIFE that is infinitely preferable to being stood in an abattoir en route to ending up in an Belgian's sandwich box, which is where many would end up if the horse racing industry was halted today.

As for "uncomfortable & dangerous territory" - you mean what they would be facing constantly if they were released into the wild?

Not that they would be released into the wild, cuz once the current generations had been slaughtered / died, the breed would just die out, studs would close, etc...

Besides, whether you're an animal or a human being, we're all facing "uncomfortable & dangerous territory", cuz unfortunately there are enough nutcases in the world to see to that.

exactly, George...outside of the Royal Family and some domestic pets, very few in this life get a free ride- you have to pay your way somewhere along the line...i hate to see any animal abused and was one of those that welcomed the new stricter whip regulations, but horses pay their way in life by doing what they're bred for every few weeks and we love them for it

Yeah let's dismiss the fact that man is over breeding them in the first place...

Here's another nice read for you one-eyed morons> http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/horse/ALL/1350/

And still they arrive..

Get a job fella...

Of course you cannot as without the Charity suckle you are basically unemployable...

Take a long hard look in that mirror  shave that beard off and get a real job..

A real job.

Oh dear, resorting to name calling because we don't share your utopic view of horses running freely around lush fields and living happily ever after.

Red Rum, Desert Orchid, Kauto Star, et al, such wonderful memories they provided, and they loved it as their enthusiasm and longevity on the racecourse showed.

And look at poor Kauto now, he looks f*cking miserable as sin since they started making him do Morris dancing imo.

Just google pics of him from his time at Ditcheat, bright as a button, alert, posing for pics. Happy. Yet some of those pics from his new home, head bowed and turned away from the camera and lass. Miserable imo.

Pro-sniper -  You should know that AnimalAid is probably not a source of unbiased or objective information on horse-racing. You will argue, perhaps correctly, that the horse-racing forum section of a betting organisation is equally unlikely to be unbiased either, but then you joined our forum, not us yours.

I am, unlike others, reluctant to make assumptions about who you are or what you do, but whatever you clearly lack some basic knowledge about this sport (ie suggesting that lowering the height of hurdles will reduce equine deaths is patently ridiculous) so some serious research would easily help, and you may want to use sources other than AA.  An idea might be to start with your quoted AA article, and set out to verify that statement and research the claims made.  I have no wish to pre-judge your findings, but some of the claims offend commonsense and/or are clearly boll ocks.

Oh go on then.  Tell us.   You are a paid plant of AA, or you are 15, or both.

two excellent posts George and Black

I have been highlighting paid plants on here for years..

Give charities nothing..

I repeat give them feck all as 95% of your donated cash goes to paying Left Wing pricks just out of "University" that know no better...

Apart from the Salvation Army and your local Hospice who we may all need..

totally agree HFT, we have a hospice on our door step which does fantastic work