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tom kerr in the r post today very good report on track in running players and how things are changing.
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As is Highgate and Staines plus two in the Midlands.
Mr Kerr should have given a Matthew Imi a call. Not only could he have explained why their pictures are so delayed but secondly why did he end Cobain?
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Hi Matthew it's 2015 now how's it coming along
Hi Matthew it's 2015 now how's it coming along
They need to read a form book,Major Muscari at 1.25 over a mile,FFS no wonder they have to slap round the country for the fast pics
if these on course players were so good they wouldnt need the time advantage to make it pay , they are there because they cant race read so have to travel up and down the motorway like zombies to earn a wage
they're just greedy,could you imagine us home players with the advantage and roles reversed
bb, most probably don't need the advantage to win , its just with an advantage they can win more and play right upto the finish line ( and after it )
luckily i put "most" in that sentence RS
i have never bet on track btw , so i don't know of mr button
i have never bet on track btw , so i don't know of mr button
pablo , they are all failed exchange shop players who couldnt make it pay on a level field thats why they travel hundreds of miles a week , they have no choice
Others have gone to extremes in their attempts to film races; one man’s attempts at Perth reached comical levels. Racecourse manager Sam Morshead said: “He did go to great extremes: we first had him in the centre of the course, then we had him on the ambulance route which was obviously totally unsatisfactory, then he hired a cherry picker from across the Tay which must be 300 yards away and was able to get a good enough view of the racecourse.
“He was obviously making so much money he decided he’d have a drone and that did frighten us because if it died and came down during a race it could be quite serious, so we got the police involved and I don’t think the drone ever appeared, thankfully.”
comedy gold
“He was obviously making so much money he decided he’d have a drone and that did frighten us because if it died and came down during a race it could be quite serious, so we got the police involved and I don’t think the drone ever appeared, thankfully.”
comedy gold
http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/special-report-boxed-in-but-ready-to-strike/1802313/#newsArchiveTabs=last7DaysNews
Special report: Boxed in but ready to strike
Tom Kerr investigates the secretive world inhabited by in-running punters and finds the landscape may be changing
IN A hospitality box at a racecourse near you, a group of people – almost certainly male, very likely aged between 25 and 45 – will gather behind closed doors and drawn curtains this week. They will produce televisions, laptops and a tangle of cabling, arrange their workspace and settle down for a long day of in-running punting on betting exchanges.
They are there because with in-running betting, speed is everything. In the split second after a horse falls or a leader falters with the winning post in sight, thousands of pounds are won and lost on exchange sites – with whomever has the fastest pictures and the fastest fingers the one to reap the rewards.
The advent of exchange-based in-running betting turned the pursuit of faster pictures into an arms race among punters. With television pictures anywhere from one to six or more seconds behind the real-time action, the advantage of being present on course and watching near-instantaneous pictures on your own screen is enormous. On-course punters see the winning run launched first, they see the bridle merchant fail to get home first, they see the faller first.
At its most extreme, betting on course can make the punter’s wildest dream reality: in those fleeting moments between events occurring and television pictures relaying them to the watching world, it is possible to bet on something that has already happened.
A Racing Post investigation into this world revealed that, although the glory days of on-course punting – when anyone armed with a laptop and a rudimentary understanding of trading could prosper – are now over, there are still dozens of pro punters making a living by betting on course. Additional expenses, widespread awareness of time delays and faster pictures available online have all made the occupation more marginal, and may even presage a new era of in-running betting, but for now the advantage of being on course remains potent enough.
The time advantage on-course punters enjoy varies depending on which provider carries footage. Although times have fluctuated over the years, at present the slowest is At The Races with a delay of around six seconds. Channel 4 Racing follows, far slower since the digital switchover (on analogue the delay was virtually non-existent), and best of all is Racing UK, about one second behind. That is fast, but not fast enough.
In the early days of in-running, those who sought an advantage turned to trading shops, where expensive professional pictures gave punters an edge over those playing from home. Later, probably around 2007, a group of enterprising gamblers made the logical move to bet off the fastest pictures possible – those broadcast on track.
The simplest way to take advantage of the time delay home punters were competing against was to have someone relaying information by phone to an off-track office, a practice also used in other sports and sometimes known as court-siding or pitch-siding, but even the best team using this method cannot compete with those using their own kit at the racecourse.
Initially, in-running punters set up shop in bars and restaurants, but the smarter (or greedier, depending on your viewpoint) racecourses fast realised there was money to be made from these punters. For at least five years on course in-running punters have been operating from hospitality boxes, arriving with heavy bags full of TVs, computers and cables. With boxes typically costing around £150 a head, in-running betting has proved a vital source of revenue for tracks. For punters and racecourses alike, it is lucrative business.
Not surprisingly, those who have experience of this world report it is not one anyone can walk into. “You can’t just come along and say ‘oh I’d like to sit in one of your boxes and do some in-running’. The boxes are already booked out and then it’s a strange black market of sub-contracted seats from in-running kingpins,” said Sam (not his real name), a punter with experience of on-course in-running trading.
Tracks are getting good money
Some of these seats reportedly trade hands on a members-only web forum where box holders advertise availability. Access to the forum and hence to the communal boxes depends, first, on who you know and, second (perhaps more importantly), on demand – which has fluctuated over the years and is lower now than it was at the peak of the in-running gold rush.
More expensively, many racecourses sell hospitality boxes for in-running punters, although they are forbidden by the Gambling Commission from advertising hospitality boxes for that purpose. Some racecourses – particularly those with oodles of sparsely attended, low-quality fixtures and excess hospitality boxes – are delighted to welcome such easy-to-please customers and go out of their way to accommodate them.
“It’s a symbiotic relationship with the tracks,” said Sam. “[The punters] are very much accommodated by the racecourses who will make sure their internet is as fast as it can be and they’re comfortable. They’re getting good money, probably more than they can get for normal hospitality, for people who do not want hospitality. All they want to do is sit down and be left alone.”
They have good reason for wanting to be left alone. Some punters have made fortunes on track – another pro punter told the Racing Post six-figure incomes were common in the early days – and although earnings of that size are rare today, good money can still be made.
However, there are downsides. As punters are taking advantage of a time delay some see the profession as immoral, while a job that involves taking in hundreds of meetings at the likes of Wolverhampton and Lingfield is far from glamorous.
“You are on the road all the time, looking at the same faces all the time, carrying a bag with a television and a laptop, staying in Travelodges,” said Sam. “For me it didn’t seem a very balanced way of living life as it becomes a more naked pursuit of money than being a punter.”
That money is harder to come by these days. In-running can be compared to the difficult trajectory of online poker: in the early days someone with a basic knowledge could expect to make decent money playing against total newcomers, but today competition is fierce. Punters wise up, or cash out.
“I think a lot of people think you can just turn up, click a few buttons and you’re going to win money, but nothing could be further from the truth,” said another pro punter who is writing a book on in-running under the pseudonym Alex King. “People evolve, they get more clever. We’re in competition with other in-running punters and people are going to do everything to give themselves as many advantages as they can.”
Punters turn to DIY solutions
Some have gone further than others in pursuit of an advantage. The dream for in-running punters is not to bet on course but to have as-live pictures at home, where they can play multiple meetings at once – trading 30 or 40 races instead of six or seven. In pursuit of that goal some have turned to DIY solutions, using technology like Apple’s FaceTime to illegally transmit live pictures to a colleague operating at home.
According to rumour within in-running circles, the recording of races was one of the reasons behind the removal of live pictures from Wolverhampton’s on-course Holiday Inn hotel. A legendary venue during its in-running heyday, the Holiday Inn was regularly packed out with punters, many of whom would quietly slip out past bemused staff as soon as the races were over. (A spokeswoman for owners Arena Racing Company said pictures had been removed because the hotel was not licensed to carry the on-course feed provided by RaceTech).
Others have gone to extremes in their attempts to film races; one man’s attempts at Perth reached comical levels. Racecourse manager Sam Morshead said: “He did go to great extremes: we first had him in the centre of the course, then we had him on the ambulance route which was obviously totally unsatisfactory, then he hired a cherry picker from across the Tay which must be 300 yards away and was able to get a good enough view of the racecourse.
“He was obviously making so much money he decided he’d have a drone and that did frighten us because if it died and came down during a race it could be quite serious, so we got the police involved and I don’t think the drone ever appeared, thankfully.”
It’s not just the tracks who object to this sort of behaviour. Those who invest in hospitality boxes have also been known to send people out on to the course to check whether anyone is illicitly recording footage. When a second can mean all the difference between winning and losing, those who have an advantage – and pay handsomely for it – are going to protect it.
Despite that, there is nothing preventing anyone who wishes to give the on-course, in-running game a shot other than access to a hospitality box. Turn up without proper preparation and equipment, however, and unwary punters could lose their shirt.
The most basic mistake any in-running punter could make is to bet via Betfair or ****’s website. The most important weapon in the budding in-running punter’s armoury is an API, a programme that interfaces with the exchange and allows punters to monitor prices and place one-click bets. “Betting in-running with manual Betfair is the equivalent of turning up to a gun fight with a spud gun when your opponent has an AK-47,” said King.
On-course era may be coming to a close
Almost as important, pro punters report, is a decent knowledge of the form book. While the simplest, and most obvious, way of making money using the advantage of on-course pictures is to lay fallers or back certain winners, there is little easy money available and plenty of competition for it. Smarter on-course players utilise their knowledge of form and trading records which, combined with the on-course advantage, can prove a potent strategy.
As an example, King names the Laura Mongan-trained Skidby Mill, a horse with a record of threatening but rarely getting home. When we spoke in mid-November Skidby Mill had a 100 per cent record of trading at 50 per cent shorter odds than its Betfair SP in ten races at Lingfield, yet had only won twice.
“I tend to treat it now as like dealing on the stock exchange,” King said. “I see horses now as like individual share prices and all I’m trying to anticipate is how the market is going to react, because I still feel there are enough in-running players who don’t actually know a horse’s trading record.”
Methods like King’s are less reliant on fast pictures and hint at where the future of in-running may lie. A combination of factors has led some to believe the era of on-course trading may be coming to a close.
The Betfair premium charge, an extra levy big-winning punters must pay, and improved access to quick pictures at home in particular are feeding this change. The video feeds provided by many online bookies, for example, are just one to two seconds behind the action and only getting faster.
Few who are not part of the on-course crowd, thought to be just 100 strong, will shed a tear at that news. The easy money that was once available in hospitality boxes came at the expense of those playing off slower pictures. While those who took advantage of quick pictures cannot be blamed for seeing an opportunity and grabbing it, they also undermined the entire concept of in-running.
The pro punters who the Racing Post spoke to all agreed quicker pictures would be a good thing. A levelling of the playing field would return in-running to what it should be: a contest of skill and wits, open to all, to each their merited rewards.
Yet for now, the on-course punter is still just about king. In the world of in-running trading, time really is money.
Special report: Boxed in but ready to strike
Tom Kerr investigates the secretive world inhabited by in-running punters and finds the landscape may be changing
IN A hospitality box at a racecourse near you, a group of people – almost certainly male, very likely aged between 25 and 45 – will gather behind closed doors and drawn curtains this week. They will produce televisions, laptops and a tangle of cabling, arrange their workspace and settle down for a long day of in-running punting on betting exchanges.
They are there because with in-running betting, speed is everything. In the split second after a horse falls or a leader falters with the winning post in sight, thousands of pounds are won and lost on exchange sites – with whomever has the fastest pictures and the fastest fingers the one to reap the rewards.
The advent of exchange-based in-running betting turned the pursuit of faster pictures into an arms race among punters. With television pictures anywhere from one to six or more seconds behind the real-time action, the advantage of being present on course and watching near-instantaneous pictures on your own screen is enormous. On-course punters see the winning run launched first, they see the bridle merchant fail to get home first, they see the faller first.
At its most extreme, betting on course can make the punter’s wildest dream reality: in those fleeting moments between events occurring and television pictures relaying them to the watching world, it is possible to bet on something that has already happened.
A Racing Post investigation into this world revealed that, although the glory days of on-course punting – when anyone armed with a laptop and a rudimentary understanding of trading could prosper – are now over, there are still dozens of pro punters making a living by betting on course. Additional expenses, widespread awareness of time delays and faster pictures available online have all made the occupation more marginal, and may even presage a new era of in-running betting, but for now the advantage of being on course remains potent enough.
The time advantage on-course punters enjoy varies depending on which provider carries footage. Although times have fluctuated over the years, at present the slowest is At The Races with a delay of around six seconds. Channel 4 Racing follows, far slower since the digital switchover (on analogue the delay was virtually non-existent), and best of all is Racing UK, about one second behind. That is fast, but not fast enough.
In the early days of in-running, those who sought an advantage turned to trading shops, where expensive professional pictures gave punters an edge over those playing from home. Later, probably around 2007, a group of enterprising gamblers made the logical move to bet off the fastest pictures possible – those broadcast on track.
The simplest way to take advantage of the time delay home punters were competing against was to have someone relaying information by phone to an off-track office, a practice also used in other sports and sometimes known as court-siding or pitch-siding, but even the best team using this method cannot compete with those using their own kit at the racecourse.
Initially, in-running punters set up shop in bars and restaurants, but the smarter (or greedier, depending on your viewpoint) racecourses fast realised there was money to be made from these punters. For at least five years on course in-running punters have been operating from hospitality boxes, arriving with heavy bags full of TVs, computers and cables. With boxes typically costing around £150 a head, in-running betting has proved a vital source of revenue for tracks. For punters and racecourses alike, it is lucrative business.
Not surprisingly, those who have experience of this world report it is not one anyone can walk into. “You can’t just come along and say ‘oh I’d like to sit in one of your boxes and do some in-running’. The boxes are already booked out and then it’s a strange black market of sub-contracted seats from in-running kingpins,” said Sam (not his real name), a punter with experience of on-course in-running trading.
Tracks are getting good money
Some of these seats reportedly trade hands on a members-only web forum where box holders advertise availability. Access to the forum and hence to the communal boxes depends, first, on who you know and, second (perhaps more importantly), on demand – which has fluctuated over the years and is lower now than it was at the peak of the in-running gold rush.
More expensively, many racecourses sell hospitality boxes for in-running punters, although they are forbidden by the Gambling Commission from advertising hospitality boxes for that purpose. Some racecourses – particularly those with oodles of sparsely attended, low-quality fixtures and excess hospitality boxes – are delighted to welcome such easy-to-please customers and go out of their way to accommodate them.
“It’s a symbiotic relationship with the tracks,” said Sam. “[The punters] are very much accommodated by the racecourses who will make sure their internet is as fast as it can be and they’re comfortable. They’re getting good money, probably more than they can get for normal hospitality, for people who do not want hospitality. All they want to do is sit down and be left alone.”
They have good reason for wanting to be left alone. Some punters have made fortunes on track – another pro punter told the Racing Post six-figure incomes were common in the early days – and although earnings of that size are rare today, good money can still be made.
However, there are downsides. As punters are taking advantage of a time delay some see the profession as immoral, while a job that involves taking in hundreds of meetings at the likes of Wolverhampton and Lingfield is far from glamorous.
“You are on the road all the time, looking at the same faces all the time, carrying a bag with a television and a laptop, staying in Travelodges,” said Sam. “For me it didn’t seem a very balanced way of living life as it becomes a more naked pursuit of money than being a punter.”
That money is harder to come by these days. In-running can be compared to the difficult trajectory of online poker: in the early days someone with a basic knowledge could expect to make decent money playing against total newcomers, but today competition is fierce. Punters wise up, or cash out.
“I think a lot of people think you can just turn up, click a few buttons and you’re going to win money, but nothing could be further from the truth,” said another pro punter who is writing a book on in-running under the pseudonym Alex King. “People evolve, they get more clever. We’re in competition with other in-running punters and people are going to do everything to give themselves as many advantages as they can.”
Punters turn to DIY solutions
Some have gone further than others in pursuit of an advantage. The dream for in-running punters is not to bet on course but to have as-live pictures at home, where they can play multiple meetings at once – trading 30 or 40 races instead of six or seven. In pursuit of that goal some have turned to DIY solutions, using technology like Apple’s FaceTime to illegally transmit live pictures to a colleague operating at home.
According to rumour within in-running circles, the recording of races was one of the reasons behind the removal of live pictures from Wolverhampton’s on-course Holiday Inn hotel. A legendary venue during its in-running heyday, the Holiday Inn was regularly packed out with punters, many of whom would quietly slip out past bemused staff as soon as the races were over. (A spokeswoman for owners Arena Racing Company said pictures had been removed because the hotel was not licensed to carry the on-course feed provided by RaceTech).
Others have gone to extremes in their attempts to film races; one man’s attempts at Perth reached comical levels. Racecourse manager Sam Morshead said: “He did go to great extremes: we first had him in the centre of the course, then we had him on the ambulance route which was obviously totally unsatisfactory, then he hired a cherry picker from across the Tay which must be 300 yards away and was able to get a good enough view of the racecourse.
“He was obviously making so much money he decided he’d have a drone and that did frighten us because if it died and came down during a race it could be quite serious, so we got the police involved and I don’t think the drone ever appeared, thankfully.”
It’s not just the tracks who object to this sort of behaviour. Those who invest in hospitality boxes have also been known to send people out on to the course to check whether anyone is illicitly recording footage. When a second can mean all the difference between winning and losing, those who have an advantage – and pay handsomely for it – are going to protect it.
Despite that, there is nothing preventing anyone who wishes to give the on-course, in-running game a shot other than access to a hospitality box. Turn up without proper preparation and equipment, however, and unwary punters could lose their shirt.
The most basic mistake any in-running punter could make is to bet via Betfair or ****’s website. The most important weapon in the budding in-running punter’s armoury is an API, a programme that interfaces with the exchange and allows punters to monitor prices and place one-click bets. “Betting in-running with manual Betfair is the equivalent of turning up to a gun fight with a spud gun when your opponent has an AK-47,” said King.
On-course era may be coming to a close
Almost as important, pro punters report, is a decent knowledge of the form book. While the simplest, and most obvious, way of making money using the advantage of on-course pictures is to lay fallers or back certain winners, there is little easy money available and plenty of competition for it. Smarter on-course players utilise their knowledge of form and trading records which, combined with the on-course advantage, can prove a potent strategy.
As an example, King names the Laura Mongan-trained Skidby Mill, a horse with a record of threatening but rarely getting home. When we spoke in mid-November Skidby Mill had a 100 per cent record of trading at 50 per cent shorter odds than its Betfair SP in ten races at Lingfield, yet had only won twice.
“I tend to treat it now as like dealing on the stock exchange,” King said. “I see horses now as like individual share prices and all I’m trying to anticipate is how the market is going to react, because I still feel there are enough in-running players who don’t actually know a horse’s trading record.”
Methods like King’s are less reliant on fast pictures and hint at where the future of in-running may lie. A combination of factors has led some to believe the era of on-course trading may be coming to a close.
The Betfair premium charge, an extra levy big-winning punters must pay, and improved access to quick pictures at home in particular are feeding this change. The video feeds provided by many online bookies, for example, are just one to two seconds behind the action and only getting faster.
Few who are not part of the on-course crowd, thought to be just 100 strong, will shed a tear at that news. The easy money that was once available in hospitality boxes came at the expense of those playing off slower pictures. While those who took advantage of quick pictures cannot be blamed for seeing an opportunity and grabbing it, they also undermined the entire concept of in-running.
The pro punters who the Racing Post spoke to all agreed quicker pictures would be a good thing. A levelling of the playing field would return in-running to what it should be: a contest of skill and wits, open to all, to each their merited rewards.
Yet for now, the on-course punter is still just about king. In the world of in-running trading, time really is money.
While he was doing the report,maybe he could have quizzed the filth that is ATR as to why they delay their pics
Betting in-running with manual Betfair is the equivalent of turning up to a gun fight with a spud gun when your opponent has an AK-47
My spud gun has served me alright thus far chief.
My spud gun has served me alright thus far chief.
I'm still imagining a line of traders head bobbing up and down - tv - pc - tv - pc - bet button -
(rub some 'deep heat' into neck )
- tv - pc - tv - pc - bet button
repeat...
back at 1.01 - doh !
(rub some 'deep heat' into neck )
- tv - pc - tv - pc - bet button
repeat...
back at 1.01 - doh !
At last,a mention in print that Premium Charge exists.
I thought that I must be imagining it
I thought that I must be imagining it
would be interesting to see what if anything happened if the likes of PREMIUM CHARGE, ACCOUNT CLOSURES, RESTRICTED STAKES etc became 100% common knowledge in and out of racing
capitalism being what it is, i'm guessing bookmakers would then fall over themselves to show themselves different to the rest, 'we promise not to close/restrict you'....
funny dubai - its the thought of him on top of ambulance that is slightly concerning
Gentlemen,
I went On Course In Running at Brighton a few years ago and saw Fatty Button with his wife lugging his equipment around
I won nicely on the day.
I decided that I did not need to travel all over the Country to earn "some extra".
I play from home with all the advantages available to me.
As many have already said,form book knowledge is sufficient.
It certainly is for me.
Ihth.
I went On Course In Running at Brighton a few years ago and saw Fatty Button with his wife lugging his equipment around
I won nicely on the day.
I decided that I did not need to travel all over the Country to earn "some extra".
I play from home with all the advantages available to me.
As many have already said,form book knowledge is sufficient.
It certainly is for me.
Ihth.
Just you were moaning the other day with Hunty about a fast pic signal continually going down
TRDDY,
I thought that my,"I play at home with all the advantages available to me" might have given you a clue
I thought that my,"I play at home with all the advantages available to me" might have given you a clue
how have you managed that, racingstar? or would that be telling?
It is "available" Dunc but not for discussion on here.
john92.....the spud gun is doing very nicely here too
Broadsword (calling Dannyboy),
I could win playing In Running on ATR.
The only and main difference is,I would make far less
I could win playing In Running on ATR.
The only and main difference is,I would make far less
Nice one Jack for posting.
Not a whole lot of real perspective in the report though. I wonder if there is any 'personal' in his words as he never mentioned press room players or van boys.
Is he hoping that times are changing or is he assuming that the combination of diminishing net returns for track players (after a punishing 60% on less profits) and guesswork about possibility of further improved online picture speeds will result in on course players packing in?
Id take my own guess that those barnacles will hold on until regulation changed things not smaller returns, as many would only have jobs akin to driving busses waiting for them if they packed in.
Not a whole lot of real perspective in the report though. I wonder if there is any 'personal' in his words as he never mentioned press room players or van boys.
Is he hoping that times are changing or is he assuming that the combination of diminishing net returns for track players (after a punishing 60% on less profits) and guesswork about possibility of further improved online picture speeds will result in on course players packing in?
Id take my own guess that those barnacles will hold on until regulation changed things not smaller returns, as many would only have jobs akin to driving busses waiting for them if they packed in.
Look on the bright side,Dusty.
At least that verminous shower Cobain/Watch & Trade have gone belly up
At least that verminous shower Cobain/Watch & Trade have gone belly up
The most basic mistake any in-running punter could make is to bet via Betfair or ****’s website. The most important weapon in the budding in-running punter’s armoury is an API, a programme that interfaces with the exchange and allows punters to monitor prices and place one-click bets. “Betting in-running with manual Betfair is the equivalent of turning up to a gun fight with a SPUD GUN when your opponent has an AK-47,” said King.....................................UTTER CARP
Only true if you have a valid view,Broadsword(and most have not)
Lex 07 Jan 15 18:07
I'm still imagining a line of traders head bobbing up and down - tv - pc - tv - pc - bet button -
(rub some 'deep heat' into neck )
- tv - pc - tv - pc - bet button
repeat...
back at 1.01 - doh !
----------
Lex - Wake up, fella.
ONE person does NOT do ALL the actions.
Think about it.
I'm still imagining a line of traders head bobbing up and down - tv - pc - tv - pc - bet button -
(rub some 'deep heat' into neck )
- tv - pc - tv - pc - bet button
repeat...
back at 1.01 - doh !
----------
Lex - Wake up, fella.
ONE person does NOT do ALL the actions.
Think about it.
dailystar there was i thinking you were a proper punter,turns out you are a fast pic merchant,dear oh dear
I make far more from my pre race views than In Running,TRDy.
Regretably,I do not have definite pre race views on every race.
However,the In Running puts plenty in
Regretably,I do not have definite pre race views on every race.
However,the In Running puts plenty in
You will be telling me you are a 1.01 merchant or laying fallers at 1000 next
I have never layed a horse at 1,000, TRDY.
I very rarely back horses at 1.01 either
I do back plenty at 1.3 ish that are 1.08 when you see them.
Each to his own,imo.
I very rarely back horses at 1.01 either
I do back plenty at 1.3 ish that are 1.08 when you see them.
Each to his own,imo.
Obviously the pics you get are light years ahead of ATR,do you get faster pics for RUK too
No.
However,I am working on it (as they are available at 0.4 behind "Live").
However,I am working on it (as they are available at 0.4 behind "Live").
Quite how ATR can even talk about In Running is a disgrace as their "delay" (7.0 seconds behind Live)is a self imposed disgrace,imo.
I hate the channel and will rejoice if they ever go pop
So would I,TRDY.
Contrary to popular belief,I would love the "delay" to be playable for its users
Contrary to popular belief,I would love the "delay" to be playable for its users
Level playing field,more money in the pot and the best survivve
That is the theory.
Regretably,RUK has proved it to be he exact opposite,TRDY
Regretably,RUK has proved it to be he exact opposite,TRDY
I go racing four or five times a week and bet conventionally (IE not in-running. I have had a BF accout almost since the start and I do know of a very small handful of in-running course guys but that article is the biggest load of tripe I have ever read!
Twenty five years ago when I was 30, I would lap up articles about pro-punters and if exchanges had been about then I would have loved this article. BUT, experience has told me that punting is simply not that easy - however you approach it...
So, anyone who thinks the article is true, well, you'll learn....
Twenty five years ago when I was 30, I would lap up articles about pro-punters and if exchanges had been about then I would have loved this article. BUT, experience has told me that punting is simply not that easy - however you approach it...
So, anyone who thinks the article is true, well, you'll learn....
The article was a typical lazy RP page filler,the knight
so true the knight
i know plenty of players suffering on the decent feed tbh at the moment...just a tough tough game and everyone wants a slice of the cake, making the margins very tight
i know plenty of players suffering on the decent feed tbh at the moment...just a tough tough game and everyone wants a slice of the cake, making the margins very tight
wow,is there no end to eand the skills racingstar will tell us he has,wotaguy!
Somebody threw him a bone and now he thinks he's king tut.
You wouldn't want to be locked up with him put it that way.
You wouldn't want to be locked up with him put it that way.
Nobody throws me anything Dusty.
By the way,did anybody mention that jealousy is an undesirable trait
By the way,did anybody mention that jealousy is an undesirable trait
I did smile when I read that part KODY.
Some on here would believe that the Moon is made of cheese
Some on here would believe that the Moon is made of cheese
whilst pointing out the reasons why time may be running out for on-course players (and i'm not sure i buy them), the article didnt make the point that home players would be knackered if RUK pics slowed for whatever reason (nor did it clarify why ATR pics slowed further 2 or 3 yrs ago)...am i right in thinking RUK pics slowing is a possibility when they introduce HD?
Advancing technology is the reason that the On Coursers will eventually cease to operate,Duncan.
When this is likely to happen is anybody's guess.
Most on here bleat about a "level playing field" and how it would increase Liquidity.RUK has proved it to be the opposite,imo.
When was life ever fair?
When this is likely to happen is anybody's guess.
Most on here bleat about a "level playing field" and how it would increase Liquidity.RUK has proved it to be the opposite,imo.
When was life ever fair?
am i right in thinking RUK pics slowing is a possibility when they introduce HD?
Yes, because HD means more data has to be transferred.
Yes, because HD means more data has to be transferred.
It'll be the last £22.50 they trouser from me (and plenty of others probably) the day they switch to HD....unless they have non-HD on a different channel a la Skysport/Eurosport.
By the way,did anybody mention that jealousy is an undesirable traitHappy
....or that guessing and bragging makes you look clueless?
....or that guessing and bragging makes you look clueless?
When was life ever fair? Says man with raw feed
Most on here bleat about a "level playing field" and how it would increase Liquidity.RUK has proved it to be the opposite,imo
Not sure about it increasing liquidity but fairly sure a LPF would increase my profitability
Most on here bleat about a "level playing field" and how it would increase Liquidity.RUK has proved it to be the opposite,imo
Not sure about it increasing liquidity but fairly sure a LPF would increase my profitability
It'll be the last £22.50 they trouser from me (and plenty of others probably) the day they switch to HD....unless they have non-HD on a different channel a la Skysport/Eurosport.
Well, on the one hand, I'd not be too quick to rule out the possibility they are run by the terminally clueless who think there is actually a demand for HD, but on the other hand, I doubt most of their customers care about in-running and the odd couple of seconds here or there.
Well, on the one hand, I'd not be too quick to rule out the possibility they are run by the terminally clueless who think there is actually a demand for HD, but on the other hand, I doubt most of their customers care about in-running and the odd couple of seconds here or there.
Look clueless
One of us works from home and the other is you,Dusty
One of us works from home and the other is you,Dusty
well you've had 2 stabs at it and got it wrong twice so you are consistent.
shooting your mouth off on a forum like a giddy kid with a new toy
wind yer neck in
shooting your mouth off on a forum like a giddy kid with a new toy
wind yer neck in
Duncan,
Do you think somebody knocked at my door and offered me an advantage?
Do you think somebody knocked at my door and offered me an advantage?
If In Running finished you would not make a living Dusty.
Be content with earning an unmerited income.
Good day
Be content with earning an unmerited income.
Good day
christ still prattling eh?
3 shots 3 duds, not even close.
you got form, coming on here like somebody just let you in the loop
giving it large goading all and sundry about winning their money by ill gain
clever lad you aint ya?
one of thatcher's finest no doubt
3 shots 3 duds, not even close.
you got form, coming on here like somebody just let you in the loop
giving it large goading all and sundry about winning their money by ill gain
clever lad you aint ya?
one of thatcher's finest no doubt
Whats Margaret Thatcher got to do with! She tried tried to put the country back on a profitable footing after the mess she had been left by the previous Labour Government.
she created a culture of get rich quick and dont concern yourself over the cost.
made a generation of spiv speculators under deregulated sectors where people with little skill ponced off with other peoples' money
they subsequently believed their own hype that they were good, when it was ill gains that rewarded them and they had no humility.
made a generation of spiv speculators under deregulated sectors where people with little skill ponced off with other peoples' money
they subsequently believed their own hype that they were good, when it was ill gains that rewarded them and they had no humility.
Thanks for posting Jack. How is RUK a level playing field ?
She tried to give people an opportunity to have a share in the country they lived in.
this thread is not about politics...let's drop it eh
(ps she was abhorrent)
(ps she was abhorrent)
duncan idaho
(nor did it clarify why ATR pics slowed further 2 or 3 yrs ago
Dunc, would your perception be that there are more of those annoying, and obfuscating, close ups on ATR, as opposed to RUK?
(nor did it clarify why ATR pics slowed further 2 or 3 yrs ago
Dunc, would your perception be that there are more of those annoying, and obfuscating, close ups on ATR, as opposed to RUK?
she used monetarism to hinder growth in sectors that all had an interest in, and backed those who held capital by encouraging widescale credit take up by those that didnt.
you asked a question factfind and I answered it, thats all
ooh, dont know about that, Daryl...how would it be relevant to pic speed?
Given the inaccuracies in your reasoning(if one can call it that) Dusty, your pseudonym seems very appropriate.
while I assume you are still looking for the truth by yours?
racingstar 07 Jan 15 22:43 Joined: 22 Oct 08 | Topic/replies: 8,064 | Blogger: racingstar's blog
No.
However,I am working on it (as they are available at 0.4 behind "Live").
Do you know that for a fact racing ? (0.4 behind live WOWSA)
No.
However,I am working on it (as they are available at 0.4 behind "Live").
Do you know that for a fact racing ? (0.4 behind live WOWSA)
doubled
what is the time difference between live turf and ruk these days
what is the time difference between live turf and ruk these days
Racingtwat
"I do back plenty at 1.3 ish that are 1.08 when you see them."
Sooooo, with all your advantages and race reading skills you can only
get on "plenty" at 1.3 ish.
Sorry but I'm not impressed. If you had advantages and race reading skills
you'd be getting on MOST at evens or above.
BTW, you are by far the most obnoxious cant on this forum. Even Zodiac is more likeable than you!
"I do back plenty at 1.3 ish that are 1.08 when you see them."
Sooooo, with all your advantages and race reading skills you can only
get on "plenty" at 1.3 ish.
Sorry but I'm not impressed. If you had advantages and race reading skills
you'd be getting on MOST at evens or above.
BTW, you are by far the most obnoxious cant on this forum. Even Zodiac is more likeable than you!
Anyone fancy giving me any sensible positives and negatives in regards to gruss vs bet Angel or other platforms and vice versa?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
gruss does pretty much all you are likely to need at a bargain basement price
dont know about betangle never used it
either way you need a strategy first, if you are asking now you are late to the party and others are whethered pros
dont know about betangle never used it
either way you need a strategy first, if you are asking now you are late to the party and others are whethered pros
Thanks Dusty, I have a strategy just wondered what difference either would make to me if any.
dusty , i'd disagree that you could be too late .
no one ever opened a betfair account and knew it all straight away . it's just it takes time to learn .
no one ever opened a betfair account and knew it all straight away . it's just it takes time to learn .
Why not just take advantage of the free trial for each to see?
*weathered pros even
P-F, if the strategy holds up it isnt too late, but by now many angles got covered and the learning curve wasnt pounced on the second you made the mistake as it is now Id have thought
P-F, if the strategy holds up it isnt too late, but by now many angles got covered and the learning curve wasnt pounced on the second you made the mistake as it is now Id have thought
Even with IR it's about individual horses and how the race is being run. And new horses come into racing all the time. And new jockeys.
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