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28 Sep 14 20:28
Date Joined: 25 Jan 04
| Topic/replies: 3,088 | Blogger: soba's blog
If not who comes close.
Pause Switch to Standard View Aidan O'Brien, is he the greatest...
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Report punchestown September 28, 2014 8:32 PM BST
Listen,he's not around long enough yet,but listen he's getting there.
Report Andrew in Sweden September 28, 2014 8:32 PM BST
Vincent Grin
Report koikeeper September 28, 2014 8:36 PM BST
Michael Dickenson & Martin Pipe were superb back in the day

Henry Cecil also was quite decent in the 80sWink
Report Cork Langer September 28, 2014 8:42 PM BST
Usual answer of course, who knows or could possibly know...? Like horses and jockeys there will always be debate, which is no bad thing, there is no definitive answer though, as you cannot compare stars from different eras.
Report tyronesam September 28, 2014 8:43 PM BST
Report deadbrain59 September 28, 2014 9:03 PM BST
he works for coolmore stud,they mop up all the top prize money,gallileo has made millions stud value,and still going,strong.PlainPlain
Report portmanpark September 28, 2014 9:19 PM BST
think he ruins alot of horses by running them too often......think put stoutey in coolmore and you would see even better results
Report trimmer September 28, 2014 9:21 PM BST
No imo Vincent was.
He started with no money or backers.
Bought horses cheap.Built up his empire by
gamblying.Then got better horses,and owners.
What he did on the jumps and then flat was unique.
Report racingstar September 28, 2014 9:30 PM BST
"......think put stoutey in coolmore and you would see even better results"

One of your best yet,portmanLaugh
Perfect if Coolmore wanted more touches in Handicaps.
Report MadVlad September 28, 2014 9:34 PM BST
Vincent completely changed European horse racing,realised at a early stage that the Northern Dancer line was theway to go.Way ahead of his time.
Report racingstar September 28, 2014 9:37 PM BST
Vincent also wintered Sir Ivor in Pisa (unheard of at the time).
A true great.
Report sixtwosix September 28, 2014 9:46 PM BST
Dr Newland won the Grand National with only a few horses in his stable .....slightly more impressive .
Report holywell September 28, 2014 9:47 PM BST
Add Shama to your ATR tracker.Mischief
Report metro john September 28, 2014 10:00 PM BST
Stoute is very good,always played 2nd fiddle to henry in the 80s but got a lesser class of animal at the time,similar comments apply to Gosden,I think MJ is well underrated,many a good trainer over the years,all needed the quality behind them and that is down too a few  millionaires.
Report zipper September 28, 2014 10:09 PM BST
years ago it was about talent ..Vincent ..Michael , Martin  ,, flat or jumps ..they were the best
Today  its all about money .. the  oil men could make anyone champ .. pick a name say Freedi Nobody.. the oil men send him  30  blue bloods   costing   20 zillion .. and hes up there with the Champ of yester year
Report ilikewavingatbuses September 28, 2014 11:50 PM BST

Won 3 Grand Nationals on the trot with 3 diff horses, will never be repeated.

Wasn't a bad trainer on the flat either.

Revolutionised horse racing, nobody will ever come close imo.
Report Breedingmad September 29, 2014 1:04 AM BST
Simple you have access to the best bred horses and money you can't lose ..sorry but that is it..........Excited
Report Outpost September 29, 2014 8:52 AM BST
I think the fact that he is given most of the best horses around and yet he still has to use the scattergun approach by entering lots of horses in big races because he doesn't always know which one of his is best, proves that he is not a great trainer.

when he only enters one horse then it's a sign that either coolmore are short of ammo at that distance or that they are trying to pretend that "this is the best horse I've ever trained"
Report kincsem September 29, 2014 8:57 AM BST
Federico Tesio
Report TheMadGhost September 29, 2014 9:05 AM BST
I can't think of the horse's name but, I do remember Vincent O'Brien winning the Grand National then winning a 2 mile hurdle with the same horse at 9/1.  A bit of a training feat.
Report 4thjulykid September 29, 2014 11:38 AM BST
Given that he is handed 50-60 (if not more) of the very best bred thoroughbreds at the start of each season he does no better than either Gosden or Stoute would do with the same ammunition.

V O'Brien was before his time and the greatest dual purpose trainer EVER. He was as good a trainer of the jumpers he had as F Walywn, who had the best supplied to him and later a better trainer of flat horses that he had a hand in purchasing (not breeding) and training than any in Europe.

M Pipe revolutionised racing from the 80s. Reg Akehurst, no mean horse trainer himself, spent a couple of weeks at Pond House and afterwards quoted that "every trainer of horses would benefit if they visited Pipes yard for a few days to learn how to get a horse fit". The days of horses needing 3,4,5 runs to get fit were numbered.
Report racingstar September 29, 2014 12:02 PM BST
Yes,Martin Pipe totally revolutionised the training of NH Horses and rarely gets the credit he deserves.
Report bert147 September 29, 2014 1:30 PM BST
T J Smith the greatest flat trainer there has ever been. Completely changed how horses are trained. Most of his methods still used now. Started with nothing as well.
Report mandarin September 29, 2014 1:54 PM BST
Vincent O'Brien - there have been many polls over the years and he always wins by a distance.
Report ged September 29, 2014 2:14 PM BST
Has to be Vincent.

If you read up about what he did with Hatton's Grace (whom he got hold of as an 8yo, after Dan Moore had had him), and Knock Hard, and Cottage Rake - the versatility/achievements that he trained into those horses - when he started, with next to nothing - it's hard to imagine any modern day trainer being able to emulate that.
Report elise September 29, 2014 2:17 PM BST
vincent, it's not even close
Report Smoggy September 29, 2014 2:21 PM BST
No, he just has best/richest owners and therefore best horses.
Report breadnbutter September 29, 2014 2:37 PM BST
Been a few unsung heros who have got a good tune out of others cast offs ,these people know more about horses than most .

Paul Nichols not a bad trainer of a proper jumping type ,Jenny pitman a good example of an old fashioned take it slow approach and first female to hold a trainers licence and won plenty big races ,started with next to nothing .As did the likes of Jack Berry and found a niche with the early  2yo,s

Depends what you are judging on ,Vincent O Brian ...only a fool would argue with his credentials .

Dickinson first five home in a GC ...must have had something as well .

Pipe a free thinking sort who deserves plenty credit the list is endless imo .

what about all the small trainers who have punched above their weight ? or the likes of   Clive Britain who was not afraid to have a go at the big guns the list is endless and its hard to compare ,its not like you are comparing like for like .

Also the small owner breeders ?

Remember a champion hurdle winner called Flakey Dove ? 

the games not just about the big fish .
Report J.R.Hartley September 29, 2014 2:38 PM BST
Obviously Vincent stands head and shoulders above everyone and it's not really worth comparing anyone with him.

Paddy Prendergast was the best of the rest for Aiden, well i don't know if he gets the credit he deserves tbf....his record will show that he produces horses absolutely spot on for the big day year in year

out.....not a doubt in my mind that he is an extraordinary trainer.....if Vincents son David [a genius btw] hadn't packed it in in his early thirties he would more than likely have taken the reigns at Ballydoyle and

had that happened i still believe that Aiden would be in the top 5 trainers in even though in spite of his record it's hard to credit him with the mantle 'best ever' due to the advantages he

will be interesting to see how history perceives him 20 or 30 years time people may dare to compare him with Vincent who knows.
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