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08 Aug 14
19:34
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Date Joined:
18 Jul 02
and you poppydog
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I think it is a stupid concept, racing never has been or even will be a team sport. But if it is popular why ban it?
You'd think it was Cheltenham the way C4 are trying to push it. Mediocre racing and average jockeys.
All this forced excitement is excruciating - bit like Children In Need night.
A card full of impossible ten runner handicaps on soft ground with a load of jockeys who don't know their horses or the track - the Shergar Cup is a paradigm day for the BHA and its bookmaker business partners, imo...
Aside from the big festivals all our decent racing's now compressed into a Saturday. This Saturday the feature meeting is the debacle that is the Shergar Cup .No wonder people find other sports to bet on
Aside from the big festivals all our decent racing's now compressed into a Saturday. This Saturday the feature meeting is the debacle that is the Shergar Cup .No wonder people find other sports to bet on
Aside from the big festivals all our decent racing's now compressed into a Saturday. This Saturday the feature meeting is the debacle that is the Shergar Cup .No wonder people find other sports to bet on
I am not keen on it, but there are 5 other meetings today and all televisions are fitted with an off button.
I agree it serves no purpose to anyone who gambles seriously, but I don't agree with banning it.
apart from the fact that it gives some owners a chance to race for prize money that is almost acceptable (unlike normal racing), if CH4 can convince enough folk that it's a proper race meeting and they go along there for a day out, they might just get hooked on the racing experience and then actually find it's even more enjoyable at a real racing fixture, assuming that the extortionate entrance charges and the rip off food and drink prices don't chase them away for ever.
all the current racegoers and punters can simply continue to ignore this fixture and just leave the BHA bookie partnership to wonder why CH4 is saying how great the fixture is but nobody seems to be betting on it.
apart from the fact that it gives some owners a chance to race for prize money that is almost acceptable (unlike normal racing), if CH4 can convince enough folk that it's a proper race meeting and they go along there for a day out, they might just get hooked on the racing experience and then actually find it's even more enjoyable at a real racing fixture, assuming that the extortionate entrance charges and the rip off food and drink prices don't chase them away for ever.
all the current racegoers and punters can simply continue to ignore this fixture and just leave the BHA bookie partnership to wonder why CH4 is saying how great the fixture is but nobody seems to be betting on it.
Can't remember ever having agreed with Facts before but do so with his last post....his comparison with the forced excitement of children in need (not that i ever watch it) is spot on.
It's just a bit of harmless fun unless you bet on the races
has been one of the most profitable meetings on the flat for me over the last 3 years, you need to look at it in a different way, nothing to do with racing/quality/gimmicks, it's about making money
Stopped watching a few years ago when a fading tennis star who knew nothing about racing was hauled in to be a team captain. The concept of teams competing in races is alien to me and would normally come under the scrutiny of the stewards.
never bet on it, but dont see the problem with it, it is only once a year and is different.
plenty of other meeting to bet on.
plenty of other meeting to bet on.
and they are not "teams" as such.
they are riding as individuals and they just tally up the points at the end of the race.
presume this is tongue in cheek?
The concept of teams competing in races is alien to me and would normally come under the scrutiny of the stewards.
they are riding as individuals and they just tally up the points at the end of the race.
presume this is tongue in cheek?
The concept of teams competing in races is alien to me and would normally come under the scrutiny of the stewards.
All jockeys trying their best!
Top class racing with restricted field numbers - 10 runners (ew betting)
You don't get many such opportunities such as this.
Look for recent Ascot & Goodwood runners and ignore any horse aged 7 or older
Top class racing with restricted field numbers - 10 runners (ew betting)
You don't get many such opportunities such as this.
Look for recent Ascot & Goodwood runners and ignore any horse aged 7 or older
Can't remember what is was called but years ago Willy Shoemaker came over here and rode in an invitation race
the horse he was on in a sprint race had form figures of 0000000-0000-000 and he won at 20-1..I was on because
I had heard he was a superb rider but the Jocks in the Shergar cup aren't in the same class..GL to anyone
willing to take the risk..
the horse he was on in a sprint race had form figures of 0000000-0000-000 and he won at 20-1..I was on because
I had heard he was a superb rider but the Jocks in the Shergar cup aren't in the same class..GL to anyone
willing to take the risk..
Since 2001 -Every Shergar stayers Cup (2 mile) winner bar Aaim To Prosper had previously ran at Ascot in career
Same for the sprint (2008 onwards)
Same for the sprint (2008 onwards)
WS won on AURA in the USA vs GB invitation, maybe it was that one
alot of racing is run as a team sport,
ie pacemakers.
People don't have to watch or bet on the
meeting,either.Owners running for decent
prize money aswell.
ie pacemakers.
People don't have to watch or bet on the
meeting,either.Owners running for decent
prize money aswell.
Pinza, can you explain in 'your' paper how in the Shergar Cup Teams summary the reference re J Fortune!
Just off to the course now in a loud shirt to join the 'fun'.
I don't get why people don't like the Shergar Cup and agree with Pinza really. Top meeting for me. The jockeys and teams are an irrelevance, I couldn't care who wins. But from a punting perspective, you've got an open race but with manageable fields full of good horses running for good prize money; I love betting on these types of races. Wish we could have cards like this everyday instead of the usual juvenile maidens and 18-runner class 5 sprints.
Would you ban every sporting event that you are not keen on watching? If you don't like it, watch or bet on something else.
Great to watch but a waste of time for punting. Definitely does nothing to increase betting turnover.
Why is it a waste of time for punting? Seen this said a few times in this thread but with no apparent reasoning behind it. Team tactics don't happen in it these days and almost all of the jockeys have ridden Group or Grade 1 winners. Ignore that the jockey is S'Manga Khumalo and you've never heard of him, and tell me why you wouldn't be interested in betting on a 10-runner 0-100 handicap worth 20k where everything is trying and it's 9/2 the field?
With cheerleader's like those I would be loathed to ban it
Think it must increase turnover albeit only small, as you have an audience attending it that would not normally contribute.
Anyone who thinks it is a waste of time has the option of ignoring it, why be a killjoy and call for it to be banned, those who are in attendance today are their by choice, they haven't been rounded up and forced in there...!
Anyone who thinks it is a waste of time has the option of ignoring it, why be a killjoy and call for it to be banned, those who are in attendance today are their by choice, they haven't been rounded up and forced in there...!
Ok, Sergeant Cecil, I´ll tell you.
To begin with the races are framed so that every runner is weighted or rated to have a good chance, meaning that very few horses can be eliminated from calculations - hence the reason you get 9-2 the field.
Secondly, although all the jockeys are very good in their own countries, very few have experience riding in this country, or at Ascot, and will have never ridden their mounts before today. It is anyone´s guess how the horses will respond to a new riding style.
Finally, the bookmakers take no chances with these races, so although you might get 9-2 the field, horses that should be 25-1+ are priced up at 12-1. No value to be had imo.
In conclusion, the races are too open, and there are too many imponderables that are impossible to assess. Betting on these races is for mugs. Hope this helps.
To begin with the races are framed so that every runner is weighted or rated to have a good chance, meaning that very few horses can be eliminated from calculations - hence the reason you get 9-2 the field.
Secondly, although all the jockeys are very good in their own countries, very few have experience riding in this country, or at Ascot, and will have never ridden their mounts before today. It is anyone´s guess how the horses will respond to a new riding style.
Finally, the bookmakers take no chances with these races, so although you might get 9-2 the field, horses that should be 25-1+ are priced up at 12-1. No value to be had imo.
In conclusion, the races are too open, and there are too many imponderables that are impossible to assess. Betting on these races is for mugs. Hope this helps.
First point is nonsense. The races aren't "framed" at all; horses are entered and run as they would in any normal handicap. These races aren't nearly as open as they appear either and, while outsiders may be shorter than normal, those are the front of the market are often at inflated odds.
Second point is also nonsense, as only a handful of these haven't ridden at Ascot. The point about riding styles is no more applicable than it is on a day-to-day basis and the best horse will usually win assuming the rider is competent. If you strongly believe that Ascot is such an unconventional track that it requires prior experience to ride, then simply oppose all those that haven't ridden here and use that edge.
Value is entirely subjective so again is not a reason to not bet on these races.
Second point is also nonsense, as only a handful of these haven't ridden at Ascot. The point about riding styles is no more applicable than it is on a day-to-day basis and the best horse will usually win assuming the rider is competent. If you strongly believe that Ascot is such an unconventional track that it requires prior experience to ride, then simply oppose all those that haven't ridden here and use that edge.
Value is entirely subjective so again is not a reason to not bet on these races.
In conclusion, the races are too open, and there are too many imponderables that are impossible to assess. Betting on these races is for mugs. Hope this helps.
So because you don't like to bet on these type of races everybody that does is a mug? What an arrogant attitude you have - i don't bet much on 2yo maidens but don't think people that do are mugs. I presume you've tried and can't make money on these type of races (your points about the jocks are barely merited) and as has been said don't bet if you don't want to - stick to what you know but don't call people mugs for betting on it.
So because you don't like to bet on these type of races everybody that does is a mug? What an arrogant attitude you have - i don't bet much on 2yo maidens but don't think people that do are mugs. I presume you've tried and can't make money on these type of races (your points about the jocks are barely merited) and as has been said don't bet if you don't want to - stick to what you know but don't call people mugs for betting on it.
Hey ho, punting is all about opinions, I have mine you have yours.
I´ll watch, you bet. Good luck.
I´ll watch, you bet. Good luck.
Facts.
OK I take your point but as you will know there are other areas of exploration.
8 past winners were placed at Ascot, and the three that weren't finished 5th,6th & 7th.
OK I take your point but as you will know there are other areas of exploration.
8 past winners were placed at Ascot, and the three that weren't finished 5th,6th & 7th.
Just for fun spyker and SC, why don´t you give us just one horse in each race that you can safely eliminate from calculations?
If the races are not so open then this should be easy to do...
If the races are not so open then this should be easy to do...
One race in, already had a winner and a second - much better than the sh!t served up all week i.e. Class 5 / 6 racing fron Ponty and Beverley and Carlisle etc mixed up with the odd claimer and seller!
Thought first race was a good betting race with the form holding up well, despite who's riding!
Thought first race was a good betting race with the form holding up well, despite who's riding!
I'll try and give you a winner instead. I've backed Hassle at 9/2 here and think it's a 5/2 shot, and would be shorter in a 'normal' handicap.
Retirement Plan had the previous placing (4th)at Ascot, but only a second season runner (just two such winners, but now three).
Probably the lowest number of races to win this.
Probably the lowest number of races to win this.
the whole trouble, since it's inception, is that the premise is wrong
horse racing is all about horses not jockeys
horse racing is all about horses not jockeys
do you think they could do black v grey v chestnut v piebald?
pancake would be fcked by the 3rd race mind
pancake would be fcked by the 3rd race mind
Signing in. The fact that there are other meetings to bet on is irrelevant. This is the only meeting being broadcast on terrestrial telly and as entertainment it ranks alongside watching endless reruns of keeping up appearances or are you being served.
reminds of the enthusiastic presenters of minor sports like handball & underwater hockey trying to convince the uninitiated that 'it's really interesting if you just give it a chance'
you not even got ATR badger?
yes, but the weather's completely **** it up at the moment
yes, but the weather's completely **** it up at the moment
xmoneyx
09 Aug 14 12:27
if 4 favs win today ascot,I will change my mind
1/1
09 Aug 14 12:27
if 4 favs win today ascot,I will change my mind
1/1
It would be worth watching if you saw genuine stars. When Willie Shoemaker rode in the first of these sort of events, he rode one of Barry Hills called Soaf in a 5f race at Sandown on soft ground, and because the horse had form at 7f on firm, and Shoemaker would never had ridden on a track like it, it went off at 33/1. But all the riders bar Shoemaker went off too fast and fell in a hole in the final furlong, and Shoemaker came sailing through and won it easily. It was a privilege to watch him. I doubt you'll say that sort of genius from any of the riders out there today.
That day at Sandown was Oct 22, 1980.
There were 5 US jocks...
Willie Shoemaker
Angel Cordero
Jorge Velasquez
Laffit Pincay
Steve Cauthen (already here)
vs
Lester Piggott
Joe Mercer
Pat Eddery
Willie Carson
Brian Taylor
Shoemaker won 2 of the 3 races.
Soaf's race was the first. He carried top weight of 10-0 in the 10-runner race. I don't know how much Shoemaker weighed - probably about 7-7.
There were 5 US jocks...
Willie Shoemaker
Angel Cordero
Jorge Velasquez
Laffit Pincay
Steve Cauthen (already here)
vs
Lester Piggott
Joe Mercer
Pat Eddery
Willie Carson
Brian Taylor
Shoemaker won 2 of the 3 races.
Soaf's race was the first. He carried top weight of 10-0 in the 10-runner race. I don't know how much Shoemaker weighed - probably about 7-7.
As much as you try to give something a chance as usual with Luck and Persad everything is totally blown out've proportion and it's very difficult to watch.
The only good thing about it is that it is one less meeting to study on a Saturday when there are usually seven of them.
How do you define dull Alkeyhole. Quality, I can understand, is in the eye of the beholder but we have had our fair share of exciting finishes at Ascot today.
It's not a meeting for me for betting on really, but what's the point of banning it?
It seems to get a decent crowd in at Ascot, and gives owners of horses below top class to earn some decent prize money. Yes some of the jockeys are there to make up the numbers, but i'd rather see the likes of Emma-Jayne Wilson trying every yard than some of the shíte we see on a daily basis, and showing a bit of excitement.
It's one day a year, and there's other meetings for you to watch and bet on if you don't like it.
It seems to get a decent crowd in at Ascot, and gives owners of horses below top class to earn some decent prize money. Yes some of the jockeys are there to make up the numbers, but i'd rather see the likes of Emma-Jayne Wilson trying every yard than some of the shíte we see on a daily basis, and showing a bit of excitement.
It's one day a year, and there's other meetings for you to watch and bet on if you don't like it.
Dull? Useless to bet on & with the CH4 team banging on endlessly like it's the Ryder Cup as opposed to what it actually is - a meaningless comp no-one could care less who comes out on top in. If you enjoy it fairy nuff. I think it's dull beyond belief.
do you think the writer thought he was on about J Fanning
another JF
poor effort either way...
another JF
poor effort either way...
Terrible competition, bookies benevolent day. Impossible races to work out.
I think it says a lot about the intelligence of the general population that this meeting often attracts such a huge crowd. I bet not one of them is a serious punter.
Bilbo
That is the whole point.
It is a tremendous vehicle for getting new people interested in racing.
I have attended previous meetings and changed my mind completely after seeing newbies getting involved in finding a winner etc.
That is the whole point.
It is a tremendous vehicle for getting new people interested in racing.
I have attended previous meetings and changed my mind completely after seeing newbies getting involved in finding a winner etc.
in fairness racing was good today. that Canadian lady jockey is awesome. the other midget on the girls team less so. music was cak afterwards. Chesney hawkes played all covers apart from his one hit. bewitched were like lepruacauns,
Best meeting of the year,plus amazing coverage by the C4 team.
Sorry. I'm intoxicated,meant to say. Its all fcking ****,and C4 team make me want to take an overdose.
I think it says a lot about the intelligence of the general population that this meeting often attracts such a huge crowd. I bet not one of them is a serious punter.
The overwhelming majority of people who go to any race meeting aren't "serious punters".
The overwhelming majority of people who go to any race meeting aren't "serious punters".
GONZO,
do true it was absolutely packed yesterday, more so than the king George. and not cheap £30 g/stand to watch Chesney play covers and bewitched do irish dancing. amazing really.
do true it was absolutely packed yesterday, more so than the king George. and not cheap £30 g/stand to watch Chesney play covers and bewitched do irish dancing. amazing really.
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