ILLUMINATI STRIKE AT YORK( PROPOSAL FOR ANNUAL BOOKMAKERS BADGE)

be handy if you could pay the marketing fee in advance too. oh i do enjoy putting my hand in me pocket for a marketing fee my guess at a spread bet for takers on this great offer is  0.5 /2.5 annual badges sold ! btw i am a seller at the afore mentioned spread.

SPOT ON FLASH!

Seems like a good idea if you plan to attend all their meetings. Anything that saves money surely helps. I would be a big buyer on your spread. And they let you pay by card for the m/fee too which hurts less than pulling it up at the badge box

SORRY INTHEKNOW, WORKMEN NOT ALLOWED TO EXPRESS AN OPINION,ONLY BOOKMAKERS BETTING WITH THEIR OWN

i think it's a very fair offer - not often you can get a 10% return on your money
i for one will be buying two of them

545,WHEN IN 10 YEARS TIME THE 10 BOOKS THAT REMAIN IN THE RING ARE BETFRED,HILLS,P POWER,LADS,NONE OF WHICH U CAN GET TWO BOB ON WITH,AT LEAST U CAN CONSOLE YOURSELF WITH THE FACT THAT THEY GOT A FAIR OFFER

Taking early retirement Fact?

NOT YET RIBERO,BUT I FEEL THIS IS A STEP IN THE DIRECTION OF MASS REDUNDANCIES,WOULDNT U AGREE?????????

THOUGHT SO!

ILLUMINATI BE WARNED,THE MARKETING FEE BACKFIRED ON YOU AND SO WILL THIS IDEA,KARMA IS A WONDERFUL THING

Facts,now they gotta toe the line on the ew terms,every little helps!

FACT - So, the York racecourse executive have decided to financially incentivise NUMBER ONE YORK RAILS to attend.....not the best use of the annual marketing fee methinks !

I think the idea of an annual badge (like a members badge) is in principal a good idea.

The bad thing about it appears to be the minor discount of only 10%, plus no money back for abandonment's.

If you could buy it for 75% of total cost then maybe there would be takers.

DAVY,"A GOOD IDEA" FOR WHOM? EVEN ILLUMINATI SOME OF WHICH BET IN THE TOP 14 DONT ATTEND EVERY MEET AND RENT THEIR PICKS OUT??????

Lord Facts - have you thought it might be a good idea for the racecourse themselves? If 10 took up the offer, then they have £25k in their pot at the start of the season. We all know that York won't be skint, but there must be something in it for them & I guess it's called cash flow

INTHEKNOW,83 BOOKS IN YORK TATTS,IF ALL 83 WERE TO ATTEND EVERY MEET WITH NO ABANDONMENTS,WHAT PERCENTAGE DO U THINK WOULD PAY THE "ANNUAL BADGE"??????

INTHEKNOW - YORK RACECOURSE... CASH FLOW ????...LOOKING AT THE RAILS RING LIST YOU'RE OUTFIT WILL SURELY TAKE ADVANTAGE...HAS THAT PITCH EVER NOT BEEN USED ?

MUG ALWAYS BE AWARE INTHEKNOW IS AN EMPLOYEE[:laugh:IE=HE AINT BOTHERED

If the annual badge included cost of entry for one staff it would be worth it, but as York clashes with other meetings on some days, then the chances of many books attending all 17 meetings a year are nil which makes this offer useless.

PLUS DONT FORGET THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR,THAT BEING THE RING AINT WORTH TWO BOB!

What's in it for the racecourse then? Maybe they have something in mind for any money they get from this? I don't know and tbh it doesn't matter anyway. At least they are offering some sort of incentive which follows what a couple of others have done.

Yes, I guess we will pay in advance as we intend to attend all of the meetings as we have always done. For others who intend to do the same, it seems a no-brainer

YEP ALL 5 OF YA

Lord Facts - I would ask you to retract that 'he ain't bothered' quote as that is not a true reflection of me

INTHEKNOW,IM NOT REFERRING TO YOUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION,ITS PURELY YOUR THOUGHTS ON IMPORTANT RACECOURSE DEVELOPMENTS

If you think 'i ain't bothered' about 'important racecourse developments', then you clearly don't know me

Hasta la vista, baby

INTHEKNOW - INCENTIVE FOR WHOM ?...IF ANY RACECOURSE FEEL THE NEED TO EASE THE ANNUAL EXPENSE/ADMIN BURDEN...WHY NOT IMPLEMENT A MEASURE WHICH BENEFITS EVERYBODY EQUALLY...THE ABOLITION OF THE ANNUAL MARKETING FEE ?

MUG,I CAN REPORT THAT INTHEKNOW IS CURRENTLY IN THE GARFORTH BRANCH OF TESCOS ASKING CAN HE PAY FOR HIS SHOPPING ONE YEAR IN ADVANCE

Incentive for those who think they can attend every meeting. If you can't, then I accept that it won't be for you, but maybe discounts like this might start appearing at other courses too and therefore others may benefit. I would be all in favour of removing the marketing fee but I guess its here to stay, in the short term anyway

Lord Facts obviously hasn't got a Waitrose in Burtonwood

FACT - Had itk down as a Waitrose man...me...i'm a frequenter of aldi  these days

IT USED TO BE ALDI NOW ITS LIDDLE

U CAN SEE IT NOW 2 OR 3 YEARS DOWN THE LINE,RACECOURSES DEMAND PAYMENT UPFRONT BECAUSE ITS WHAT THE MAJORITY OF BOOKMAKERS WANTED,AND JUST LIKE THE MARKETING FEE DEBACLE ALL THE BOOKS WONDERING HOW IT GOT THROUGH

INTHEKNOW - 'THINK THEY CAN ATTEND EVERY MEETING'....YOU KNOW THAT IN THE MAIN, THE ONLY ONES WHO CAN ATTEND EVERY MEETING...EVEN AT YORK... ARE THOSE WITH THE BEST PICKS OR THOSE WHO RENT/SHARE....IT CANNOT BE RIGHT THAT A MARKETING FEE IS BEING COLLECTED FROM ALL BOOKMAKERS AND THEN 'REDISTRIBUTED'IN THE FORM OF ANNUAL BADGE DISCOUNTS TO MULTI BILLION POUND ORGANISATIONS SUCH AS YOURS WHO OPERATE FROM EXCEPTIONAL PICKS.

I THOUGHT THEY OPERATED FROM GIB

SPOT ON MUG!

I don't know the exact number of York books that attend every meeting but I guess it would be more than you think. I'm not a fan of the marketing fee but would disagree with you that you think it is being re-distributed as a badge discount for others.

ITK - I'd like to know where the m/f is being used !...i'm guessing that there is never a shortage of books at York...why then, is the racecourse offering incentives to attend ?...they negotiated the contracts with the intention of extracting as much out of us as possible, and now eighteen months on, are offering discounts...just doesn't make sense...if the racecourses want to help the books out financially...drop the marketing fee !

It all makes perfect sense if you turn up every meeting then the books gunna put extra spend through the bar e.t.c.... I kid you not I still remember seeing one book filling up a bottle in the toilets one day with water...... so York may want to re-think

I can't answer that million dollar question, we all want to know where it is being spent!

Maybe my earlier post about the York management wanting to get a cash pot in advance of the season has some merit, I don't know.

There was talk on here of the Marketing Fee being scrapped - did anything come of that?

ITK - I CAN IMAGINE THAT YORK RACECOURSE HAS SIGNIFICANT SUMS IN RESERVE...BUT IF THEY ARE DESPERATE FOR 50K IN PRE SEASON CASH FLOW...I'M SURE MR TOPPING WILL EMPTY A COUPLE OF MACHINES TO HELP THEM OUT.

ITK....... When you pay any sort of fee you expect a service in return for it, you don't expect your Broadband not to work all month and then receive a monthly invoice from your provider?

As part of the deal that was put in place the contract should of stated that the Racecourses were obliged to show to the books what additional Marketing they had carried out to get punters through the gate over and above what they had ordinarily done before the advent of the fee, in effect it's one of the biggest nonsense's you have ever seen it's  just an extra revenue for the majority of the racecourses to do what they please with  but those doing the negotiating were so desperate to keep their significant assets that they accepted whatever the racecourses said, they were blinded between tenure, and on-going fees two entirely different matters

RR - Yes I agree, the MF should be detailed in how it's spent

THE MARKETING FEE HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE MARKETING OF ONCOURSE BOOKMAKERS,IT WAS DESIGNED TO CUT BOOKMAKER NUMBERS WHEN IN REALITY ITS DONE THE OPPOSITE,AT THE TIME OF ITS INCEPTION SOME OF THE POSTERS ON HERE(ILLUMINATI)ACTUALLY SONG THE PRAISES OF IT AS PART OF "THE GREAT DEAL" WE HAD RECEIVED FROM THE RACECOURSES(RACECOURSES MUST BE LAUGHING THEIR BOLLOCKS OFF).NOW WE HAVE PEOPLE POSTING THAT AN ANNUAL BETTING BADGE COULD BE A GOOD DEAL,I HOPE THE TAKE UP FIGURES OF THIS GOOD DEAL ARE POSTED BY THE AGT,AND THIS NONSENSE IS NIPPED IN THE BUD ASAP!

B.D.H. HAS obviously seen sense if the picks for sale on a.g.t. website are anything to go by

dave d

I was at Cheltenham last Saturday and I would give the young lad who works for bdh 10 out of 10 for trying to attract customers, I don't know if he sends it back on here but at least the lad was trying, not like some on the rails who looked like the dummies in a tailors window.

Ronnie
That young lad was Bryans grandson James.He is as you say a cracking front man.

Just reread part of the post & it says York are proposing this to try & speed up entry into the track.I've a simple solution for them if this is the case.Tell the bloke who takes the money to stop fart ing on putting the notes all the same way round.He's the reason it takes so long to get the badges out,get somebody sensible on that job & things will be done in half the time.

Quite right allpoints - and there are two of them in the box anyway!

We are missing your humour on-course!

allpoints

Hope your well, don't get down Your area now but next time your in your local Joe's tell Margaret  the bonny lad sends his love, she will know who I am.

That lady is one of the best managers they have ever had.

p.s. at least I never have to go to ferry on the hill anymore for some g*t to nick my motor

itk
Seeing the specialist tomorrow & hopefully he'll be able to get me going on some treatment.It's nearly two month since I was diagnosed & still no treatment except for getting a stent in to clear my liver.As for the humour I would think you may have had a similar upbringing to me.To appreciate mine & B.D.H's sense of humour you have got to have been there & know what it's like to be skint.No elbows in the hand me down jumpers,cardboard in the soles of the boots etc.Being brought up like that certainly gave you a sense of humour that got you through at times.I'm still smiling here & I'll be back on course,I'm determined about that.
Ronnie
I've been meaning to call in Cockerton & introduce myself but in the meantime I'll pass on your message to Margaret.As you say a cracking lass,nowts a bother & she certainly knows her job.

Going back to the point about a reduced annual badge - didnt Ascot do the same for the Royal meeting last year?

Seems like a good idea for those who attend all days, not sue why people think a discoun t is a bad idea, its not as if you are being forced to buy an annual badge.

DAVY,THE DISCOUNT ISNT A BAD IDEA,CANT U SEE THAT ITS WHAT IT WILL LEAD TO THATS THE PROBLEM????????? AND DONT THINK FOR ONE MINUTE THAT ITS THE TRACKS THAT HAVE COME UP WITH THE IDEA BECAUSE IT ISNT!

Regarding Ascot-I thought it was a proactive thing for them to do until I realised they HAD to-its part of the 40 year contract we all signed at Ascot-Special Condition 2.2

It is obvious there are too many bookmakers most days.The non investing back picks therefore ruin business for the investors.Nothing will ever be done for the bad picks. What purpose do they serve.The off course industry ignore their prices and the practice of betting overbroke just because they can.

LOGISTICS,HAVE U EVER BEEN TO A RACECOURSE?? IF SO U WOULD KNOW THAT THE "NON INVESTING BAD PICKS" ARE WERE THE PUNTERS GET VALUE AND GET ON! UNLIKE OUR FRONT LINE COLLEAGUES RETURNING A 6/4 SHOT 1/3 THE OTHER DAY,THE QUESTION SHOULD SURELY BE WHAT PURPOSE DO THE FRONT LINE THE VAST MAJORITY WHO ARE COMMISSION AGENTS SERVE???????? COME RACING NO COMMISSION,NO PREMIUM CHARGE!

Been to a racecourse well over 2,000 times. Worked the worst pick in most rings for many years as reserve/esl.Bought number one and many top picks when allowed to.Before betfair it was easy to tug 1 if you knew how to price up and it would be laid before the front line spotted you and copied.Anyone can bet overbroke,but long term it's not clever.

THEN U ALREADY REALIZE THAT YOUR PREVIOUS POST IS NONSENSE AND THAT THE SP RETURNS HAVE NO RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER TO PRICES AVAILABLE IN THE RING,SO ONCE AGAIN I PUT IT TO YOU WHAT PURPOSE DO THE FRONT LINE SERVE????????????????

ANYONE CAN TURN UP IN A FRONT LINE PICK,KEEPING ALL THEIR PRICES UNDER THE ODDS AND THEN WHEN THEY DO TAKE A BET FIRE IT ALL BACK IN HERE.BUT LONG TERM ITS NOT CLEVER BECAUSE AS U WILL KNOW THE UNSUSTAINABLE EKIES WILL GET YOU IN THE END!

The front line in the main have invested 100s 0f £K to try and make a living.They provide  a price guide to the off course industry.We all know SPs are a ficticious and ridiculous but that is the system.You are trying to justify occasionally betting bigger than betfair, therefore overbroke to the detriment of the ring as a whole.Great for "your" turnover, no help to your fellow bookmakers and your punters are probably betting overs via the exchange, well shrewd !

There is nothing wrong with being competitive. Those who wish to offer value should be allowed to do so without the sniping that can sometimes occur from neighbouring books that want to be 'up for nothing'. On the other hand if the figures do not 'add up' the outcome ( or should that be demise ? ) is inevitable ! I am a strong believer in the survival of 'back row picks' but am amazed how many continue to turn up and conduct business when the front row picks are struggling to take a bet with the same prices on the board.

Factmachine, What makes you thinks all the top picks fire it back on the machine? I can assure you MOST don't, they bet better.

There is no mechanism for rings to reduce, a ring that may have served 50 books but now only needs say 30, everybdoy still turns up because they own a pitch and all "have a chance". It's a stand off to see who will buckle first.

They FRB should use the SIS money to buy cheap picks, make those picks redundant, then remove the anchorage points, smaller rings are needed on the whole.

Exactly Davy,but you forgot to add that the ring which used to service 50 but now only needs 30 now has 60!

The reduction that you talk about has already begun.Total number of books at York for the last 3 years

2011 - 2172
2012 - 2128
2013 - 1958

Maybe this is why the carrot has been dangled.

So if factmachine continues to bet overbroke he could put a few of the better picks out of business in a few years and may even get a FREE move up ! maybe shrewd after all.

LOGISTICS,"THE FRONT LINE HAVE INVESTED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS" SO THAT JUSTIFIES THEIR EXSISTANCE,WELL YOUVE CONVINCED ME THEN

discordians?

GILLS,"WHAT MAKES U THINK THE TOP PICKS FIRE IT BACK ITO THE MACHINE,MOST DONT"

They don't need to justify their "EXSISTANCE" they just hope to recoup some of their investment. Your mission should you choose to accept it is to bet bigger than betfair and the rest of the ring in your £100 pick and fck them up.gl.

YEP,THE FUTURES BRIGHT FOR EM ISNT IT,MOST OF THE FLIMPERS AND WORST ABUSERS OF EVERYTHING THATS WRONG WITH THE RING NOW BET ON THE FRONT LINE,THE PUNTERS WILL BE FLOCKING TO THE RACES WONT THEYCOULD BE WORSE I COULD HAVE PAID TENS OF THOUSANDS FOR WORTHLESS PICKS,ILL STICK WITH MY £50 INVESTMENTS THANKS

Yes they are close to worthless.The reason being too many books too little turnover and backline overbroke firms.At least it will make you smug in your fifty bob picks.... oh hold on your expenses are the same as the front line, that does not seem fair ;)

ILL TAKE MI CHANCE GOOD LUCK!

TIM genuine question.i admit to hedgeing about 20% of what i take back on here.your posts insinuate that you never hedge on here but im pretty certain i overheard you putting money into your **** account via rdt.(if im wromg i appologise).regarding the 10% york discount i wont be taking it up as i miss 4 meetings a year(2 unworkable and 2 newcastle clashes).it will probably be taken up by the rails and about 10 tatts picks so if it was a way for the racecourses to move to an advance payment from all of us i think they will be dissappointed.i know you have a downer on york but once again it was my best track with slips t/o and profit all up about 10% on my previous best year there.bit of good news for you with bdh selling his aintree pitch as at least you will be able to sleep that night.for those of you who dont know factmachine spent last years grand national working for the above mentioned laying 1/5 1234 to once a year punters.

over to you Lord Facts.....

REGIT MY DEAR FRIEND HOW ARE UWHERE IN ANY OF MY PREVIOUS POSTS HAVE I "INSINUATED THAT I NEVER HEDGE"????? AS A FORMER MEMBER OF THE ILLUMINATI WITH YOUR COLOURS WELL AND TRUELY NAILED IN THE"WEVE GOT A GREAT DEAL CAMP"IT WAS BOTH REFRESHING AND ENCOURAGING TO SEE U MOVE OVER FROM THE DARK SIDE AND LAST YEAR RENOUNCE YOUR PREVIOUS VIEWS,AS FOR AINTREE NOT HAVING MY OWN PICK I HAVE ONCE AGAIN BEEN CALLED INTO SERVICE ON THE RAILS,SO HOPEFULLY I WILL SEE U THERE AGAIN

TO QUOTE THE LITTLE LAD WITH WHAT HE SAID TO "SHOELESS JOE JACKSON" OUTSIDE THE COURT THE DAY THEY TRIED THE"BOSTON RED SOX"TEAM IN 1919 FOR THROWING THE WORLD SERIES.......SAYITAINTSOJOE