Patrick Veitch

pretendee

Should have titled;Public Enema,imo.

He is a genuine bloke with an ego as big as all outdoors. Oh, and skip the bit where he is on the run from the gangster: tedious is not the word; hold on, yes it is; Dick Francis he ain't.

If you read it with an open mind, there is some helpful betting advice there, and most of it is well-written and interesting (once you've torn out the gangster pages).

Dreadfully written book. Ego, ego, ego and basically a diary. One of the worst books I've ever read. Hoped to glean a few nuggets from there but nothing really. The one thing I'll take from the book is the attitude required to be successful - the analogy of a cross between a brain surgeon and a mad axe murderer or whatever it was is apt. Go straight to last 2/3 chapters would be my opinion if you have the book else don't buy it.

Aceform would have had him picking tatties.

It´s the amounts that he gets on i don´t get,, by reading this forum a lot of you guys have trouble getting 50quid on.
My 2+2 is not adding up????

Yes of no account how can you be successful when he only drives a Ferrari.
Possibly Aceform who is now picking the tatties.

Hes very big friends with David Easterby, ahem

Above posts pretty much sum it up. An 'interesting' tale, but drags on far too long.

He told us that he locks himself away in his office and spends hours watching the replays and studying form, but (if memory serves) little reference to sectional times, which surprised me given he 'pioneered' the use of sectional times at the breeze-up sales and had good success with his purchases.

It´s the amounts that he gets on i don´t get,, by reading this forum a lot of you guys have trouble getting 50quid on.


@Aidan in Berlin -- Veitch spends many pages talking about his vast army of putters-on.

Remember also that he is writing about a few years ago; whether it is the same now, I do not know. I'd guess not because technology will have made it easier for bookies to link accounts, and FOBTs mean they can risk closing what are probably losing accounts when they are not being used for Veitch's plunges.

I know one of his generals , he sticks on for veitch , the irish team (whoever they are ) and a bit for mellish , gets a text message to say bet coming at 11.15 etc , he goes to areas with loads of shops , all cash and prices half within 10 mins so you've got to be quick.

Fair point, so all these soldier carry a spare 50 quid on them at all times just in case? you wouldn´t want to make many plans with the family anyday!!

he's retired so does it most days , always has a couple of grand on him , if he's busy with anything just tells them not today

Walter mitty

money he is no walter mitty a friend of mine knew one of his generals and he allowed him to use his name to open betting accounts with a few bookies he did not have to do anything it was all done over his head.Any way it went on for a month or two and nothing really exciting happened and then one day i think it was a monday he had a £200 double a 20 to 1 and a 5to1 both won.I dont know wether my friend got any thing out of it as i have not seen him a few years

stopped reading when he said he marched over to dandy nichols whilst eating his lunch at goodwood and told him what number to pick in the draw and how to ride his horse in the stewards cup,dandy was the sprint king and had the goodwood sprints by the balls at the time,about as true as walking up to mike tyson and taking the pish out of his speech

likes to talk about his knowledge of form etc,but his biggest succes came when owning a horse stopping it ,hiding his form from the public and then just picking the right race on the right day,or to cut it short, CHEATING THE BETTING PUBLIC,no skill involved in that

"I didn’t know Pepperdine’s trainer David Nicholls, but Peter had met him. As I discussed the race among the troops on Friday afternoon, I asked him to find Nicholls so I could let him know my thoughts. This was the point that I should have realised I was getting carried away. Captain Hurst was urgently pursuing his promotion, so he marched straight off. Less than 20 seconds later, to the amazement of all concerned, he marched back into the restaurant with his arm around a slightly bemused-looking Nicholls. After briefing him about the finer points of my views, I brushed aside the comments of a couple of my agents to the effect that he hadn’t seemed to be that confident."

Some chapters later -- "My attitude was also a lot more restrained than when I spoke to David about Pepperdine on the same day five years earlier."

I disagree,1st time poster.
It is relatively easy to stop horses.
However,the difficult part is getting it right on "the day".
The astute punter learns how to spot these occasionally.

His book is a load of bollocks. Boring load of tosh just like Bird`s book. Worst two books ever written in the racing genre.

Anybody expecting Veitch to give anything away will be disappointed.

it says michael tabor paid him 100 grand a flat season for tips,he must be up with the biggest punters of all time the bets he must have put on to make it worthwhile

Highly unlikely,Gazo.
It is hard enough getting on for yourself on a gamble at a low level Course.
What price Veitch putting out one of his touches to Tabor.

Can't understand why you lot don't believe the man, its not as if the bookmakers would be buying his book so why shouldn't he tell us all how it is done ?

@GAZO it says michael tabor paid him 100 grand a flat season for tips,he must be up with the biggest punters of all time the bets he must have put on to make it worthwhile

Michael Tabor probably was up there with the biggest punters of all time, and this is back when he also ran a chain of betting shops so even when not actively punting, was getting his card marked for odds-setting purposes.


@treetop Can't understand why you lot don't believe the man, its not as if the bookmakers would be buying his book so why shouldn't he tell us all how it is done ?

He doesn't really tell us how it is done, so much as how it used to be done when you could get a big edge by paying attention to the draw. In any case, I'm not really sure what he could tell the bookies, that they could not already have worked out for themselves.

The problem with Veitch's book is not that it gives little away, that is to be expected. The real disappointment was that he felt the need to try and make himself more interesting with cheap sexual derogatory passages about women who we should believe flock around pro punters. As he does not need the money from book sales I can only assume that a lack of self esteem was the driving force behind these inclusions. I have met many pro gamblers and none have these traits, pretty much all of them are pretty self contained and comfortable in their skin and never feel the need to flaunt it. Unlike some of you I do not for a minute doubt his success but I doubt I would want to spend time in female company with him.

As others have said he doesn't exactly give much away but what I took from it was that he seemed to have one method that was basically a bit of a scatter gun approach where if you fire enough ammo you might hit the target so he would back multiple runners in big handicaps to ensure a profit just as long as one of them won.

I also agree that there was a lot of ego and "look at me" attention seeking within the book with the fugitive from gangsters storyline, the name dropping within the game and listing female friends shall we say, such as Emma Ramsden and the ex-newsreader Katie Derham, as well as showing photos in a helicopter alongside a looker, although in fairness to him maybe some of that was encouraged by the publishers as they think that kind of thing sells, when in fact I would say the vast majority of readers were only really interested in the gambling side of it all.

Big handicaps lots of picks,laughable!

What's the issue about betting a number of horses in hcaps or indeed any race. If you believe that your selections are value then it's all about making a profit out of a race. Your P/L will ultimately tell you whether it's an approach that works.

Because the value in majority of big field handicaps simply isn't there not to be betting lots of picks anyway,difficult enough trying to find any sort of value in better handicaps where the tiny bits of value are more transparent.

Timeform's Phil Bull who actually did know a lot about betting and horseracing once tried a major coup. He had over 50 putters on, sworn to secrecy, who would be informed only on the day. They were spread from Scotland to the South Coast. The bookmakers took 30 minutes to rumble them and Bull never tried again. That Veitch can pull the exact same methods off time after time is a little incredible. He was well known industry wide from his adverts and tipping line days.That he also seems to know sweet fa about racing is another factor that does not add up.  His parents are rich and perhaps his money and house are inherited and the helicopters are jockey hires that he cadges a lift from. Who knows or cares. Plenty want to believe.

Big field Handicaps are DEFINITELY where I make my money and IMO they have huge ricks in them. So easy to dismiss an 8/1 here, a 6/1 there and a few 12/1's and suddenly you're looking at huge value. So in that respect I don't doubt Veitch's claims but the book is just dreadful in all other ways.

did read the book a while ago, can't remember much about it.

Don't know how much Veitch relies on form, but his betting almost certainly relies on plenty of inside info. Owns (or used to own) horses not in his own name and has plenty of contacts with trainers. The Nottingham / Stuart Williams stunt with the 100/1 shot was pretty "clever".

" His parents are rich and perhaps his money and house are inherited......"

Don't know about that but reckon he made a lot of money from his tipping line - he was one of the best at it - even when he was at Trinity College Cambridge his room was full of phones and electrical equipment, and he was recruiting college girls to do the phone calls on his tipping service.  He was also getting a lot of mail at college with punters sending him cheques for his selections.

At the beginning of his 3rd year in Cambridge he set up a premium rate service advertised as 'The Professional'. He was clever and knew exactly what he was doing and this generated a gross income of well over £100,000 that year.  Then he left Trinity without finishing his degree and concentrated on his racing business.

At that time a lot of other tipsters started jumping on the premium rate bandwagon and a lot of 'em claiming they were professionals......... The market was saturated  but despite his young age Veitch was probably still the best at it, he was very clever and had a good image.

His book is a fairly interesting read but of course he doesn't give much away......

Always going to be people who think it is all hype. I am not sure what was expected was hardly ever going to be a "how to win a million guide". He pointed out what any professional gambler needs, hardwork, hardwork and a bit of luck when required. That's what I took out of it anyway. A lot of the money was made when it was easier to get on but if you can find someone with a losing account the restrictions aren't half as bad and it would be possible to get a decent chunk on.

It's not all hype if anything it's under played I knew of bookmakers and punters who placed bets on Patricks behalf always kept things to myself and always will

My take on it is this. His race reviewing is not unlike that of ATR's Hugh Taylor. Where Veitch has the edge as an owner rather than just a punter or tipster is that, having identified that Flying Dancer gets thrown wide on tight corners from an inside draw, as an owner he can simply make entries on straight courses whereas we ordinary mortals need to wait for the right circumstances to arise. In the period covered in the book, a lot of the time this would be simply that a horse's form was shaded by a bad draw.

Also, as an owner, he can expect to be told when his horse is coming into form on the gallops. At that point, races can be carefully targeted.

I also know of a major pro who handled PVs business, spreading it through his own network.
His favourite saying picking winners is easy "getting your money on is the hard part"
He also handled business for Barney.

For anybody wishing to "learn" from the book,save your money and spend it on your favourite tipple.
Nobody should doubt that PV was shrewd.

" His parents are rich and perhaps his money and house are inherited......"

Don't know about that but reckon he made a lot of money from his tipping line - he was one of the best at it - even when he was at Trinity College Cambridge his room was full of phones and electrical equipment, and he was recruiting college girls to do the phone calls on his tipping service.  He was also getting a lot of mail at college with punters sending him cheques for his selections.

At the beginning of his 3rd year in Cambridge he set up a premium rate service advertised as 'The Professional'. He was clever and knew exactly what he was doing and this generated a gross income of well over £100,000 that year.  Then he left Trinity without finishing his degree and concentrated on his racing business.

At that time a lot of other tipsters started jumping on the premium rate bandwagon and a lot of 'em claiming they were professionals......... The market was saturated  but despite his young age Veitch was probably still the best at it, he was very clever and had a good image.

His book is a fairly interesting read but of course he doesn't give much away......

truth is a bit different he was first in with the other being martin Julian they had the market to themselves but competition came along quickly on premium rate and the was left behind imo they were better than him by a long way and still around now, I remember him borrowing 2 of a leading tipsters horses imo at decent prices that's how you knew he was struggling, so he departed quickly after and found another edge, he owned them and a different skill was needed placing them but it was a lot easier than coming up against the better tippers, good luck to him he done well in the end. he would never come back as a tipster he was not very good

Amazing how people like to create a version.Veitch is a tipster until he's handpicked by the Winning Line then Tabor for huge sums and then wins millions punting(initially on form rather than owning).'He got out of tipping because he wasnt as good as us other tipsters who are still selling tips now'is a curious way to spin the story!

i wonder if he has/will post on this thread

on a side note, welcome to the forum featherstone rover

purchased book last week, waiting for delivery. interesting to see how and what methods worked for him back then, everyone
has to find their own way of beating the bookies and most people will not be able to fact of life, if explained how to read
the form and my methods, dont think that would help anyone, gotta learn your own way of doing things. this best forum around,
there are a few people on here, who really know their stuff. gl all hope this year will be the year make my fortune

I don't know if he is a conman or not but I did enjoy the book

bought it, read it, binned it.

rich parents always helps as a emergency fund

met someone who put on for him who reckoned he has aspergers. Said thats why he is so quick with numbers but often appears aloof and a bit nutty

i was told harry findley had rich parents aswell is this true.

his downfall was he loved them long odds on chances.

I met him in a social setting and found him a normal,pleasant individual with no ego to speak off and horses not his main topic of conversation.

Two things carried HF out,imo.
BF Commission and betting under the true odds.