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Buick rides Nautilus from the front, Havlin misses the break at Lingfield stays on well last timeout, breaks well tonite but pulls the head-off it throughout the race. This is a horse who stay`s 12f no problem.
What is going on????? surely John Gosden is not heading towards that horrible way???????.
What is going on????? surely John Gosden is not heading towards that horrible way???????.
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- or - to put it another way ...
He ain't THAT good. - and never has been.
Would have been a forgotten boy, years ago - but for, somehow, and amazingly, getting this job with Gosden.
The scenario - Reminds me, entirely, of the days when A 'Tony' Kimberley was second jockey for Jeremy Hindley.
He ain't THAT good. - and never has been.
Would have been a forgotten boy, years ago - but for, somehow, and amazingly, getting this job with Gosden.
The scenario - Reminds me, entirely, of the days when A 'Tony' Kimberley was second jockey for Jeremy Hindley.
Pace easygold, it's all about pace and surely you should have been psychic and known in advance what was going to happen, just as you seemingly expect everyone else to whenever you trot out your pace mantra any other time after the race has already been run. 
It is Ima, Pace is key. And Havlin is riding a horse who stays 12f no problem, Buick rides prominent, but NO Havlin has other idea`s. Very poor from all. But u can`t read previous form as I have told you many,many times before.
It`s about time trainers, jockey`s cop-on and get trained up on what PACE is all about. And u of course
It`s about time trainers, jockey`s cop-on and get trained up on what PACE is all about. And u of course
And you could tell me you are an enlightened and intellectual human being easygold but that doesn't make it true either merely just be saying so.
I can read form well enough but I do confess to not being psychic so am no more likely to know the pace of a race or how it will be run in advance as you or anyone else, unless there are obvious reasons such as pacemakers or front runners for example or that it is run within the bounds of the norm but even then you don't know that in advance for the latter. A little clue to help you out here and no need to thank me for it but reading form is something that happens after the race, so when you churn out you pace mantra it's irrelevant unless you predict it pre-race and so is totally meaningless, as in the past when you have disagreed with me before you go to your bog standard pace angle as if everyone should know what kind of pace would be set in advance and how a race will be run.
You have clearly just demonstrated that is a load of cobblers expecting punters to know in advance and then effectively blaming them when what they might expect to happen doesn't or else you wouldn't be complaining about Havlin's ride here....A lack of self awareness is such a quaint thing eh?
This pace angle you keep meaninglessly bringing up post-race all came about when Fallon didn't get a clear run on Opinion in the Old Newton Cup when it was run 4 seconds slower than average and virtually every horse of the 17 runners was still in contention at the 2f pole. Resulting in several that didn't get a run due to bunching, which I put down to bad luck in running and the slow pace. You then come out with the pace pace pace arguments as if the punters are supposed to know in advance what pace would be set, which has absolutely nothing to do with form reading at all.
You even seem to have trouble reading basic English and not picking up on me pointing out the flaws in your pace argument when you are saying it after the race is over.....maybe a bit less form reading and a bit more basic reading might be a good idea instead as we can all be wise after the event eh?
I can read form well enough but I do confess to not being psychic so am no more likely to know the pace of a race or how it will be run in advance as you or anyone else, unless there are obvious reasons such as pacemakers or front runners for example or that it is run within the bounds of the norm but even then you don't know that in advance for the latter. A little clue to help you out here and no need to thank me for it but reading form is something that happens after the race, so when you churn out you pace mantra it's irrelevant unless you predict it pre-race and so is totally meaningless, as in the past when you have disagreed with me before you go to your bog standard pace angle as if everyone should know what kind of pace would be set in advance and how a race will be run.
You have clearly just demonstrated that is a load of cobblers expecting punters to know in advance and then effectively blaming them when what they might expect to happen doesn't or else you wouldn't be complaining about Havlin's ride here....A lack of self awareness is such a quaint thing eh?
This pace angle you keep meaninglessly bringing up post-race all came about when Fallon didn't get a clear run on Opinion in the Old Newton Cup when it was run 4 seconds slower than average and virtually every horse of the 17 runners was still in contention at the 2f pole. Resulting in several that didn't get a run due to bunching, which I put down to bad luck in running and the slow pace. You then come out with the pace pace pace arguments as if the punters are supposed to know in advance what pace would be set, which has absolutely nothing to do with form reading at all.
You even seem to have trouble reading basic English and not picking up on me pointing out the flaws in your pace argument when you are saying it after the race is over.....maybe a bit less form reading and a bit more basic reading might be a good idea instead as we can all be wise after the event eh?
Havlin doesn't need to know what the pace is in advance, he will be riding in the race and can position his horse where he wants. The facts are that his position and pace judgement is poor on many occasions. He has had years to perfect the art, and even after all this time his judgement stinks, just like it did even years ago.
Think we all know Havlin is a poor jock. If you're being generous you could say he's average but that would be being kind.
However he has his job with Gosden I'd imagine for three reasons. One he works hard at home and is probably good at being communicative in regards to working inexperienced horses, two he's willing to ride the stable lesser lights at minor meetings @ which higher profile jocks wouldn't have an interest and crucially he does what he's told and rides to orders which is the most important bit.
You only need look at his ride on Power Series at Wolverhampton a few years ago to see the extent to which he'll do what he's told to do, even if he was a tad unfortunate that day he did his best to set it up for the handicap next time out.
The point here being - this horse was almost certainly ridden today as at Lingfield prior (despite how he might have been ridden on turf by other jocks in the summer) in the manner which he was ordered to do so.
Whether they are trying to teach him to settle (he's pretty smart the horse) and with a bit of improve given a pedigree more likely to come into his own at 4+, I don't know.
There could be more distasteful nature to the rides however despite the jocks mediocrity he would not be giving these rides on a horse who can go from the front, through his own volition.
However he has his job with Gosden I'd imagine for three reasons. One he works hard at home and is probably good at being communicative in regards to working inexperienced horses, two he's willing to ride the stable lesser lights at minor meetings @ which higher profile jocks wouldn't have an interest and crucially he does what he's told and rides to orders which is the most important bit.
You only need look at his ride on Power Series at Wolverhampton a few years ago to see the extent to which he'll do what he's told to do, even if he was a tad unfortunate that day he did his best to set it up for the handicap next time out.
The point here being - this horse was almost certainly ridden today as at Lingfield prior (despite how he might have been ridden on turf by other jocks in the summer) in the manner which he was ordered to do so.
Whether they are trying to teach him to settle (he's pretty smart the horse) and with a bit of improve given a pedigree more likely to come into his own at 4+, I don't know.
There could be more distasteful nature to the rides however despite the jocks mediocrity he would not be giving these rides on a horse who can go from the front, through his own volition.
has ridden a few for his boss this week that have pulled hard, ran keen, not settled ....a coincidence or as studious_1 eludes to...something more sinister...
ps the guy is anything but average .....very competent when he wants to be...
ps the guy is anything but average .....very competent when he wants to be...
I remember when the Rav somehow got a Chapple-Hyam horse beat at Wolves last year that was absolutely backed off the boards into an odds on fav, a truly horrific ride. I think the horse bolted up the next time on a turf track. Obviously jockeys get beat on horses they should have won on but I remember that was one of the most brainless rides I ever saw, think it lost a head having travelled on the bit held up. Anyone remember the horse I am thinking of?
studious_1..............you think he was riding to Gosdens orders on power series !!!!!
Endless summer 05 Dec 13 04:17
studious_1..............you think he was riding to Gosdens orders on power series !!!!!
As a backer of Power Series that day at Wolverhampton I would be interested in your obvious opinion of the ride, endless summer.
studious_1..............you think he was riding to Gosdens orders on power series !!!!!
As a backer of Power Series that day at Wolverhampton I would be interested in your obvious opinion of the ride, endless summer.
Havlin and certain other jocks / trainers? Half in agreement with immazed in some respects - namely absolutely no idea what is going to happen next, they defy all expectations.
Sadly, races with these parties involved have become "no fly zones" for me
Sadly, races with these parties involved have become "no fly zones" for me
Ima, all u are writing is wait for in-running and see what happens early on (nothing else ur adding)however, a horse that has won over 12f on the turf u would expect a more prominent position over 10f plus at Kempton. But no hold him up, pull the head off him for the first mile????.
The moral of the story u can`t trust a professional.
The moral of the story u can`t trust a professional.
sparrow
As a backer of Power Series that day at Wolverhampton I would be interested in your obvious opinion of the ride, endless summer.
Why would you be interested in my opinion ???
Being a backer of the horse cannot be the only reason imo.
As a backer of Power Series that day at Wolverhampton I would be interested in your obvious opinion of the ride, endless summer.
Why would you be interested in my opinion ???
Being a backer of the horse cannot be the only reason imo.
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