James Reveley on Dancing Art?

Today wasn't the day, there was some well backed horses in the race, including the winner. The horse jumped well and tired late on, will be better for the run.

Effectively schooled it in public, one rule for kids like England, another for jockeys who can hide behind their 'riding' style to get away with appalling efforts like that, certainly didn't achieve the best position he could in my opinion. Thankfully Murphy has moved to France, people can pick up bad habits from association...

The Revel still rides regularly for Ferdy so don't expect anything to change

Apologies.  Hollins finished 2nd beaten a neck by Duke Of Monmouth.

Tezza, I quite agree, that looked pretty much like public schooling and it would be very odd if questions were not asked of the jockey & trainer, by the stewards at the track.

I can easily understand not giving a horse a hard ride after a long lay off, but to appear not to deliberately respond to how the race was unfolding in front of him would suggest something quite questionable! 
(Or maybe, he was riding with his eyes closed)

Totally agree. I had a few quid on early in the race as he had the perfect sit in fourth. And as you say, just as it was time to get into a challenging position, he sat still and watched the late runners go by.

take notice if they send it down to southwell

1st time back over a year testing ground,was never going to win/place

Even the commentator said something along the lines of "Revely does not look interested here"

xmoneyx, think you forgot to add 'ridden like that' at the end of your statement - ground certainly not a problem, K Reveley says he loves testing ground, has had a wind operation too, so one could reasonably expect an improved performance, even allowing for the time off. It will be interesting to see whether they were asked to explain the effort (or more pertinently the lack of it), although can't think they were for one minute. Was travelling all over the back markers half way through and as Tallywagger confirms, just sat like a lemon and allowed them to go past him. Made a token effort 3 out to get involved, imho a ridiculous ride that deserves to be highlighted, especially given the high regard they seem to hold the horse in. If it couldn't get involved in that race, then Reveley snr must be a terrible judge of a horse, and we all know that he has enough good horses over the years to know that that simply isn't the case.

not sure he said that ^^

From memory think it was something along the lines of "not concerned" rather than "not interested" about picking up the leaders.

yeah, said not concerned that leaders were getting away from him.  if you ever hear a commentator say "not interested" you'll probably see the jockey going up to the commentary box after the race for a quick chat.

ok I will add,ridden like that

Not concerned then

and neither were the stewards it seems, they'll all be on when it goes off unfancied and cruises home...!

Xmoneyx you say "1st time back over a year testing ground,was never going to win/place"

The horse has never run over fences on anything better than g/s.  Its first win over fences was on soft ground at Newcastle (posting a RPR of 120 (18lbs above it's official mark) Incidentally, the horse it beat that day - Best legend, posted a RPR of [124] to come 2nd beaten 5 lengths (10lbs higher than it's official rating of (114)
In next race Dancing Art raced of a higher mark of (109) and again posted a RPR mark of [120] - 11lbs higher than its official mark.  The horse it beat into 2nd that day Bow School ran of a mark of (117) but posted a RPR of 127 (10lbs higher than it's official mark)
Even it defeat in his 2 subsequent races, Dancing Art was able to improve on it's winning RPR marks to post RPR's of [122] & [123] yet here it was today racing of an official mark of (112)  Before today, it had raced 6 times over fences and had recorded RPR'S higher than the handicap mark of (112) on 4 solid occasions.  If Dancing Art is not a seriously well handicapped horse then we had all better give up the game.  As many owners will tell you, keeping a horse in training is not cheap and you don't get a discount if they are useless.  Like Tezza highlighted earlier in his response, one would have to raise a question mark against Keith Reveley's judgement of a horse if he could not tell the owner that this horse has regressed.  In any case, I don't feel this is the grip most posters have today.  Essentially, the grip most posters have was the inept lack of positioning during the race (I can swear I saw Dominic Elsworth (Duke of Monmouth)looking around wondering where Dutch Art was during the race)

It will be interesting to see what handicap mark Duke of Art has in about 2 months time!

Looking for Dutch Art?
He would have needed good glasses,imo.

Dutch Art would definitely never have been risked in that race Whistlejacket...!

Sorry chaps.  I had opened the red wine by that point. I stand corrected - Dancing Art!

Dutch Art is probably enjoying life doing whatever he is doing now!

6/11 races reveley held horse to rear,so the way it ran wasn't unexpected,but horse couldn't keep with pace,stamina late on

As a fully fledged member of the "Northern Mafia",the Canny Grannie and her offspring never have to answer questions about "Not Offs",imo.

Below is the quote from the trainer last month - confirmed with far more glowing positives in Mark Howard's latest book
Dancing Art     Keith Reveley     3:25 Uttoxeter    
He is another nice prospect who has plenty more to offer. He won back to back handicap chases early last year and started last season on a mark of 115. We started him off at Uttoxeter in November but he made a slight noise so he was given a wind operation to correct the problem. He was ready to run in the spring but the ground was too quick so we put him away for the summer. He had done particularly well and looks a picture at the moment. Hopefully we will get a full season out of him. He needs plenty of cut, at least good to soft, and we will gradually set him off and see how we go. Potentially he is a very nice horse and with not too many miles on the clock I am looking for some decent improvement from him. - Weekender, 16/10/2013

Think that was the 'gradually set him off' done and dusted today...looked a picture pre race according to live reporter on track too, so it wasn't as if he was carrying excess.
xmoneyx, you really do have to get a grip, it wasn't that the horse couldn't keep up with the pace, if you have ever felt anyone's hands around your throat, you will know what was going on there, but it seems futile to try and explain anything more to you. By the time he was asked for a proper effort to close up, it was already far too late, but they won't give a toss - the winner of the Paddy Power this afternoon would have struggled to get involved in the finish from the position James had contrived for Dancing Art at that point today!

@nyway I place/layed it ,had my reasons

Tezza is spot on ....Rancid ....

xmoneyx, I am pleased for you that you placed layed it and very well done to you.  But if your customary betting modus operandi is to lay well hcpd horses, then I hope you have a seriously large bank!

I don't mean to labour the point, but I suggest you watch the race again and once you have done so, please come back and tell us objectively if you think the positioning of the horse during the race was satisfactory.  I ride horses regularly and believe me, I can tell you if a rider is riding "tight" or not.  Have a look at Reveley's positioning of his hands on the reins and his sit on the horse.  Look at his alignment and see what you make of it.  If you care to compare the positioning of his hands to all the other jockeys around him I wonder what you will make of it.  I think Tezza's last post  tells you all you need to know.
This game is about integrity and the moment that goes out of the window, we are all stuffed!

Problem is, with comments like 'hopefully we will get a full season out of him' and the afore-mentioned, the excuses are already in place, and it would only take the addition of a 'missed a gallop last week' to exonerate them from any accusation of not achieving best position if by some miracle they were asked to explain. I have watched this jockey over the years and although he is dubbed a proper horseman, which I am sure he is, it makes it all the more galling to see a lame ride like that go under the radar from such an experienced jockey, when poor Jonathan England finishes the race instead of pulling the horse up like 99% of jockeys would have done and gets hauled over the coals for it, along with his honest trainer who rightly backed the lad up totally and saw nothing wrong with his ride. Hope they get the result they are hoping for in their appeal, sadly have a feeling they won't though given the establishment muppets they are going to be facing.

Both rides were "Not Offs",Tezza.

I should have added,that England's mount could not have won.

To be fair if you are looking for integrity in racing then you should have stopped playing along time ago.

Any race these days with the exception of pattern races and perhaps the valuable h'caps at the Festival meetings are open to those who wish to play by their own rules, some are subtle about the way they execute their plans, others less so, few will be identified by the majority of people and even less will be pulled in about it, that is the playing field you must work with if you decide to play, you still have a choice and only you can make the decision.

two points

1.stewards never even felt the need to enquire
2.never beleive what comes out a trainers mouth

Cork Langer, that is part & parcel of the great panoply of the game, but there have to be boundaries! 

The first rule of betting in horse-racing ought to be "backer beware" and that is why most horses in very race a re priced differently and ultimately the decision one is taking to back a horse is hopefully reflected in the prevailing chance.  I may choose to back a 16/1 chance because I think the prevailing market price does not reflect the chance I think it has.  I may choose NOT to back a 6/4 chance because I think the prevailing market price does not factor in several other improbables (would I choose to back Mr James Reveley @ 6/4 in a race on a southern track, or in a high grade Saturday handicap, when he on a horse that has been beating inferior rivals at northern tracks, when Reveley is pitting his wits aginst the likes of Walsh, McCoy, Geraghty, Fehily...etc - the answer is a capital NO)

Take Sir Mark Prescott for instance.  I don't think anyone has a problem with him running stoutly bred & late developing 2yo's over sprint distances at the end of their 2yo season in quick succession to get them a handicap mark for their 3yo season and then they improve by several pounds and run up a sequence.  No one would ever call that cheating, all he is trying to do is obtain the best outcome for his charge in the long run. That sort of cleverness is acceptable and I have no doubt any trainer worth his/her salt would utilise it. 

Somethings however are beyond the pale!

xmoneyx,

Without meaning to be patronising.  I seriously worry for you in this game if you seriously believe the statement you have made below:

1."stewards never even felt the need to enquire"

I sincerely hope you are just having a wind-up session.  Which is perfectly fine.

Not sure why anyone is surprised? Trainer & jockey did exactly the same with Robbie at Kelso back in May. Horse was never put in the race, then won its next two. Never got picked up and nothing got said typically.

Problem of these non-triers / schooling in public will continue until BHA had the balls to get a proper set of centralised stewards onboard instead of these double barrelled hoo-rar henry types, who steward part time at every course up and down the land.

All they need is a proper panel of full time professional stewards and I'm sure there would be a lot more consistency.

Whistlejacket you shouldn't presume people don't have a problem with Prescott and the way he has always campaigned. It's cheating so just because he's a toff and a media darling doesn't mean he should get away with it.

Think the whole point is that there are virtually no boundaries these days because of what the exchanges offer those who want to play with their own guaranteed edge

Lol @ the never felt the need etc comment - dear me...as you say, must be a wind up merchant, no one could be that naïve...

Haven't studied the race that closely yet Whistlejacket, but if I were working in the London BHA security department which supposedly has individuals employed to actively check out stuff not spotted by the local stewards (must be a busy department you would think), I would definitely be asking questions of those involved. Sometimes you just get a feeling that something isn't quite right and I was left with that feeling today, even 4 fences out during that race. It is actually quite rare for a commentator to spot something like he did mid-race, most of them would have missed it - and I was thinking exactly the same at the time and it was the next 30 secs of the race that Reveley seemed to do the exact opposite of what he would normally have done. Perhaps the wind operation wasn't a success and he maybe choked again, but that should be reported by the jockey post-race if that was the case. The owner has had plenty of horses with them over the years and has enjoyed a lot of success with various horses, this one included, so I am sure they will be hoping to put this 'disappointing' run behind them and we might see dramatic improvement shortly - two years ago to the day, he ran down the field on his chasing debut and swiftly put that run behind him next time out before scoring twice in the style of an improving horse after being short-headed on his second chase run. Interestingly, Uttoxeter is the only track this afternoon that has no reports so far of 'why they ran badly' reported on the BHA site. Keith Reveley in fact has been asked five times this year by the stewards to explain various poor performances by his horses, and on four occasions, has been unable to offer any explanation - the other occasion, a mare was deemed by him to be lame.

just stating fact on this race,no other

the smith,England debacle was WRONG decision by the stewards

it's part of racing,lov it or hate it

Incorrect,Xmoney.
It was the right decision.
A blatant non trier.
Today's race would have been harder to prove (assuming the even noticed the run).

Haven't read all the posts but saw the race, obvious non jigger. For the past 3 years (that i've noticed) the Reveleys along with many others adopt an all trying or non trying approach to a race meeting. Last Tuesday at Sedgefield was another prime example when the Reveley entourage took up most of the parade ring and lo and behold they have a double & 2 seconds. We know everyone has to bet to make the game pay but as we know they all get on at the right price and we are marked as arbers.

Everyday in this country trainers have multiple winners or no winners when they have obvious chances(according to the market in which the moves we are supposed to believe)as well as obvious connected stables that have multiple winners on the same day. I've accepeted this is basically the game and won't change,you could fill a day with ropey rides for one reason or another every day during racetime but that's the way it is.

*Accepted*

i had a day of bad rides all in 1 day on saturday,glad this one was noticed,also backed knockara beau but that want a non trier just an inept jockey,also lookout mountain i backed at wetherby,3 in an hour or 2 !