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wouldn't be in his top 10 riders over fences when he was handed the ride on Denman. This, despite the fact, that no-one on earth has ridden more chase wins than the champ.
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and how many times did the champ ride Denman to victory over fences?
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So you would have 10 others before him over fences yeah?
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and how many times did the champ ride Denman to victory over fences?
Zero, in 3 attempts. Perhaps Segal knew what he was talking about ! |
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4000 winners. Stick that up yer arse Segal
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ballydoyle - not 10, no. But more than zero.
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that no-one on earth has ridden more chase wins than the champ.
I suspect very few have ridden as many chase losers as the champ. 4,000 winners is a magnificent achievement but is partly due to the number of rides he has taken. Scudamore used to take each summer off, the lazy git. |
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Scu was a better jockey than McCoy. As was Francome. Loads of winners is irrelevant. When all the top jocks turn up at the big meetings, Geraghty, Walsh and others ride more winners.
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Pat Taafe, Tommy Carberry and Johnjo were all better over fences, certainly Francome was,
Come on Johnny. |
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30% + strike rate
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I think what should be taken into account in this case is the character of the various jockeys, McCoy is totally obsessed with riding winners and breaking records, only McCoy would travel all the way to Perth for one fancied ride if it meant riding yet another winner.
Many of the other top jump jockeys had a life outside of racing, when was the last time McCoy took a day off or brought his wife and kids on a holiday?. Surely if Ruby wasn't dividing his time between riding in Ireland and England he would've won a few jockeys titles if he had based himself solely in Britain and put his mind to it?, but that was never going to happen with the firepower at his disposal from the Mullins camp. Number of winners doesn't mean you're head and shoulders above your contemporaries, was Gordon Richards really the greatest European jockey because he rode more winners than anyone else?. |
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I'm amazed how McCoy is getting trashed on here
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I'm not Trashing A.P., wonderful jockey, often saved my bacon, kept me in the game on more than one occasion, but no need to go o.t.t., excuse my maths.,but does a 30% strike rate mean that he has ridden over 9000 losers ? Is this a record also ?
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12000 losers
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That a record then?
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his medical record is unreal,broken nearly every bone in body,dieting over longterm can't be easy,travels 75k miles a year
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top man @evens.
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to a £1 unit to sp--Would hav to be 10/3 I think to be overall profit?
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silvergreaser @ 9.44 is spot on.
It's not 'trashing' McCoy to offer an analytic perspective on what has happened. His achievement is remarkable for the stamina and single-mindedness it evinces...it has nothing to do with being 'the best jockey'. McCoy is the winningmost jockey -that's it. Someone has to be and not all jockeys get the same chance. The field of race-riding is not a level one with equal opportunities for all -and it can never be... for reasons that have been explained on here many times. |
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take your point vubiant
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How many winners have toff Tom ridden
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Not quite Tim Henman hysteria but the racing media sure have run them close over what was probably the most inevitable outcome ever.
We've known for years that McCoy would ride 4000 winners and many more. |
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deserves all the accolades going. tom segal is a numpty if he thinks ap cant win on any horse ahead of other jockeys
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deserves all the accolades going. tom segal is a numpty if he thinks ap cant win on any horse ahead of other jockeys
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We've known for years that McCoy would ride 4000 winners and many more?
serious injury is only one ride away |
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exactly xmoneyx, too many people on here are petty and jealous of success
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xymonex I said that on another thread once Tony avoided a career ending injury it was all only a matter of time that he would surpass 4000 in spades.
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"Many of the other top jump jockeys had a life outside of racing, when was the last time McCoy took a day off or brought his wife and kids on a holiday?."
and that old saying, Stop and smell the Roses. I guess in the end you have to balance up work and sacrifice, but McCoy is McCoy and he is so driven. |
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hes still young
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McCoy has ridden the most winners - Fact, but as others on here have pointed out, that does not mean hes the best jockey. Personally preferred Francome and Dunwoody, and that's it really, the best jockey is down to opinion.
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Numerical comparisons are not a basis for assessing the best jockey. Deciding who you would want on your side in a finish is.
AP every time. |
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just reading this thread
first i,d like to congratulate A P on a remarkable achievement but the thread is about tom segal saying he wouldn't be in his top ten over fences, well i don't know about top ten but certainly not the best riding today, was never happy with McCoy riding denman or masterminded, his style is great to get the best out of moderate horses, he is far and away the best at that, but some of the very best know what they are doing and need a different style, so tom segal is correct in my view, and most people who know anything about horses will concur with him A P is a wonderful jockey no doubts, but getting more winners than anyone else makes him an owners dream and a punters dream but doesn't make him the best over a fence |
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I'd like to see his list of 10+ riders
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John Whitley's jockey rankings, as plugged regularly by RUK's Willowy pundit, have 7 ahead of AP.
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1.DONT PUSH IT Grand National 2010
2. SYNCHRONISED – Cheltenham Gold Cup 2011 3. MAKE A STAND – Champion Hurdle 1997 4. EDREDON BLEU – Champion Chase 2000: 5. HENNESSY – Bet365 Chase 2009 & WITCHITA LINEMAN - William Hill Chase 2009: |
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What is the best method of assessing the quality of a jockey? It can't just be number of winners because access to the top stables plays a part.
Scu and AP owe a huge debt to the Pipe stable, which gave them a lot of relatively easy winners. I wonder what ability level Scu would have been assessed at without M Pipe. I remember someone assessing flat jockeys by measuring what they got out of horses that had been ridden by many different jockeys. I think on that analysis, the "best" jockeys were all outside the top 10 using the winners measure. |
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Assuming Pipe stayed the same, how do Scu and AP's strikerates for Martin Pipe compare?
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@Cantthinkofaclevername -- I remember someone assessing flat jockeys by measuring what they got out of horses that had been ridden by many different jockeys.
They are the Whitley (Computer Racing Research) ratings I alluded to -- AP is joint 8th. But even that is not foolproof because trainers will reach for a top jockey when their nag starts to sparkle on the gallops. |
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The first thing anyone will tell you about any sporting great is that they possess the drive determination application and sheer bloody mindedness to do the job, when comparing him to other jockeys I'd be happy to say that he wins hands down on that score alone, yes other jockeys may have been able to serve it up to him if the "fancied" it, but that's the point, they haven't have they.
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