the best day of the entire racing calendar has just be taken away

I agree Jimnast. If I remember rightly, the Classic trial also used to be on the Saturday before that was moved. Such a shame.

The powers that be are hailing it as a triumph jimnast,still no sign of next year's fixtures though,i know Haydock now race on the 2nd sat in jan(10) as its a Cheltenham reciprocal.

If it isn't broke, why change it ? Another faux-pas.

Also presume ring list changes now to sandown nh picks for Whitbread day

diplomat that's come up for me as it happens but from a racing point of view its a very bad move.

the worm

both shergar and sharastani won the race when it was run on the Whitbread card.

diplomat

what a start to your day

Just another example of the customer not being taken notice of, great card it was

ribero

is there any indication as to when the fixture list comes out ?

The AGT will presumably be clarifying the position regarding List usage on this day, but it would appear some pitches have been devalued by this decision and some have been enhanced - not ideal.

Your guess is as good as mine jimnast although the article re Whitbread day could be construed as though its not far away.
the post normally advertise it on their website that its in the next days paper so I guess that's when we will know,nothing much normally changes although it would be nice to know.

democrat

that's the way it is,i had 4 at Folkestone and 1 at Hereford they got devalued proper.

royal ascot at York don't forget.

Royal Ascot at York was a temporary arrangement jim but this looks like a permanent change; if anything can be regarded as 'permanent' in this business ! I am sure in the fullness of time there will be other 'Folkestones and Herefords' but that's no consolation to you of course.

I see they have come up with an end of jump season finale with the big Sandown Whitbread meeting going to be an all jumps fixture on the Saturday. This will be the final race and climax for the jump season with all the presentations done on that day. They are then going to give the jockeys three days off instead of starting straight away next day. Now as a traditionalist the mixed flat / jump day was always a success for me with the top jockeys and horses mixing in well and the public seeming to enjoy it. I know we want an end of season finale and a break but if we are going to have a break at least make it two weeks. Let’s give it the benefit of the doubt and see what happens.


quote ^ MHT

would have thought the jocks and trainers would much prefer have a full flat or jumps card, rather than mixed.
Think it a good move personally and climax to jumps season should indeed be a full card if they fill it with decent races

democrat

I could never understand in the first place why Whitbread day was on the flat lists.

pedrobob

I am sure your right regarding the jockeys and trainers but don't you think sometimes the racegoers should be considered ?

I'm afraid I'm more of a jumps fan, so you know what my answer would be jimnast, wrong person to ask

......yes to your question though, the racegoers should be asked

market rasen will lose its Saturday card on Whitbread Saturday.

pedrobob

I am also a much bigger jumps fan but I really enjoyed the two day fixture as it was.

Street and his fellow 'gurus' are so bereft of ideas when it comes to promoting this sport that their only fall back is to try to completely re-arrange it, imo...

haydock flat to replace rasen that day,christ haydock race on Saturdays more than the july course now.

The July course will have to do something about that jim !!! I've noticed some high profile picks will miss out as a result of this change i.e only exist on Flat list.

Jimnast,Haydock have always raced on this day.

I have also noticed that democrat but surely there is no argument for which fixture it is.

I may be in the minority but I'm very happy with Whitbread day being a jumps card with possibly 3 chases on the card.

Jump racing gets it big closing day and flat racegoers get to see the Gordon Richards Stakes and the Classic Trial on the same day.

Win/win.

The Mixed Meeting gave the day differentiation and its own identity.

Street and co have now reduced it to one that, for all the inevitable forced back slapping and award winning, is going to be no different from the December, January or March Saturday feature meetings at Sandown, imo - it will be like Tingle Creek Saturday but without the great race...

From a flat racing point of view I only see this arrangement as an enhancement.

The powers that be in racing don't give a 5hit about the sport. The best example of this in previous years is the removal of historic names from races only to be replaced by "Insert Bookies name here".

They are cretins who only give a 5hit about cold cash.

Excellent news. Now maybe they will get rid of that greyhound track that takes place on the first week in June and put Market Rasen on instead..

1980

Friday April 25th

Maiden - 2yo fillies - 5f
Tudor Stakes - 3yo - 1m
Sandown Cup Handicap (75 plus) - 1m
Guildford Handicap (0-90) - 1m6f
Maiden - 3yo-fillies 1m2f
Athlone Handicap (0-100) - 3yo - 5f

SATURDAY April 26th

Maiden - 2yo - 5f  ... Carry On Again - Robert Armstrong - L Piggott
Westbury Stakes (Group3) - 1m2f ... Gregorian - Vincent O'Brien - L Piggott
WHITBREAD Handicap Steeplechase ... Royal Mail - Stan Mellor - Philip Blacker
Esher Cup (75 plus) - 3yo - 1m  ... Atlantic Boy - Michael Stoute - Pat Eddery
Classic Trial - 3yo - 1m2f  ... Henbit - Major Hern - Willie Carson
Marcus Beresford Maiden - 3yo - 5f  ... African Song - Paul Kelleway - L Piggott

^ in later years - or, rather, more recent years - more Jump races were added

Don't see any reason why it needed to change. Always thought it was a nice way to bring the two codes together - loved the shot of Sir Henry chatting to Nicky Henderson this year, for example.

As a NH(only) member at Sandown I'm delighted by this news.Not so long ago both Friday and Saturday were mixed cards.When Friday became all flat  there have been times when I couldn't be bothered going,even though it's a fairly easy journey for me,with free entry on my NH badge.Makes up a little for losing one of the February fixtures.Cannot understand why anyone should be disappointed by this.The major flat races will still be there to be seen on Friday and,as mentioned above,makes sense from a trainers and jockeys perspective.

The closing - Jump Jockeys v Flat Jockeys race - will be 'a gonner', presumably ....

Racing for Change will be apoplectic.

Always went to catch the train before that one.

attendances flagging...if you embrace capitalism, as we as a nation have, you must accept that profit will always be the driving force in these decisions...no place for nostalgia and dewy-eyed sentamentalism in business, i'm afraid...

you should all know this by now

Duncan, how will an all jumps card make them more money than a mixed one..?

i dont know...they presumably think it will...bit like football club sacking their manager, there is sometimes the pressure to 'do something'...whether it works, only time tells

re when the fixture list is due, i thought i'd read it was next week

Duncan, it's hardly as if the fixture doesn't already get big crowds - pretty sure it's the biggest of the year at Sandown.

My bet would be that this is about their obsession with 'narrative' (because a meeting where they run a high class jumps race and high class flat race back to back has no news angle, obviously)...

just hope they dont forget to book rita ora

full fixture list delayed until next week now.confirmation of a champions weekend with future champions day been at Newmarket on a Friday and champions day Saturday at ascot,less aw in jan/feb/march to accomadate more national hunt,also 8 northern nh fixtures in sept instead of 4,also confirmation there will be racing on good Friday.

The worst move of all is to stop NH racing for 3 days after the Whitbread. The ground is still raceable and novices should still enjoy their status for a month longer.

The end of April should not be the end of the jump season, it should be the end of May.

Having all these listed/graded races on the current last day conflicts with Punchestown to the detriment of fields at both meetings.

Let them have the flat card on that day and move the Whitbread jumps meeting to the end of May.

Simple.

if they did that loper it would dilute the quality we get at cartmel.

millhouse...i've been going to Sandown since the mid 60s and i'm for the change providing they put on a classy jumps card and not just add a couple of mediocre handicaps....i've generally felt that eclipse day draws a bigger crowd but might be wrong on that score.

And YOU really think they'll get a card full of decent jumpers that day??

posy

this year Whitbread 10479
          eclipse 13197
          madness 14777

2011 8000 more saw the eclipse than the Whitbread.
2010 2000 more saw the Whitbread than the eclipse.

swings and roundabouts before that,nowadays the best supported fixture seems to be there main concert night

Given that we're all referring to the race as the 'Whitbread' and that I still think of the Schweppes Handicap Hurdle I have to wonder what modern day sponsors are getting for their money.

zilzal

grade 1 chase will help but I think they might struggle for runners,its possible the champion chase will be short on runners for the next couple of years so those wishing to avoid sprinter sacre can wait till sandown.

iamajambo it will always been known as the Whitbread,in fairness to paddy power the mackeson is now known as the paddy power.

Not in my household, it wont.

Probably because there was a bit of confusion between Mackeson and Massey Ferguson.Which was first?

massy fergusion I think loper will know for sure.

hi jimnast...I forgot about the evening meetings...seem to recall that it was packed for the madness concert and there were people still coming into the course at the time I was leaving it.

what am I talking about the massy ferguson was the race which is run at the bula meeting the race fontmort won with that huge leap 3 out.

confirmation of a champions weekend with future champions day been at Newmarket on a Friday and champions day Saturday at ascot

I don't really see the point of this. I'm not one for shifting all the decent racing to a Saturday, but a 'Champions Weekend' seems a bit pointless if its at 2 different courses 100 miles from each other.

posy that is often the case at these music days/nights talking with my bookmaker hat on its very disappointing when the racecourses charge us more than twice as much to bet at these fixtures only to find you cant get your equipment out of the racecourse after racing due to the amount of people coming in.

Lets be realistic as well, Tidal Bay apart, the Whitbread is hardly a quality chase in the class of Dessie/the Dikler, Diamond Edge, April Seventh/Captain Christy these days

There are quite a few festivals sandwiched in a short period in the spring, Chelt, Aintree, Punchestown, Ayr Scots Nat to get a card full of decent jumpers

dr gonzo

cant make my mind up about that one it could well be the best two year olds are away by then,on a ground concern the Rowley mile is seldom bad ground.

Agree on both counts jimnast - just don't get it from a marketing point of view tbh

I wouldn't be surprised if this Saturdays Newmarket card is lost to enable some of the races to be run on cesarwitch Saturday so help saving the ground aswell.

Anyway,does anyone remember the 1967(I think)foot 'n' mouth outbreak when racing was suspended for a while and the BBC ran a supposed computer simulation of the Mackeson ()with Sir Peter commentating?A Ken Oliver horse,Arctic Sunset(or similar) was the original top weight and may have won the fantasy race.Help required here.

You called.

MACKESON GOLD CUP  2m 4f

First run .... 1960 - Winner - Fortria - 8y-12st 0lb- 19 ran

1961 - Scottish Memories - 7y-10-12 - 17 ran
1962 - Fortria - 10y-12-0 - 25 ran

MASSEY-FERGUSON 2m 5f 197yds

First run .... 1963 - Winner - Limeking - 6y-10st-12lb - 14 ran

1964 - Flying Wild - 8y 10-6 - 7 ran
1965 - Flyingbolt - 6y 12-6 - 11 ran

zilzal

monkeyhostin was a good winner

correct - iama - re: - 1967 NO RACE for Massey-Ferguson

Mackeson was run, though - Won by - Charlie Worcester - 10y-10-11

Massey-Ferguson distance reduced to 2m 4f - the following year - 1968

On the subject of fixtures, I had to laugh at Rod Street's superb spin that Good Friday racing will be of benefit to the Lambourn and Middleham Open Days.

But the supposed computer simulation? It happened.

iamajambo

the first computer event I remember was ali v marciano

Racing Post survey
Will you miss Sandown's mixed meeting in April?
Yes:36% No:64%

iamajambo   were you thinking of this

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/electronic-horse-race/query/and

interesting that stevie I would have thought the other way,maybe I am just a sentimental old fart.

First winner i ever backed finished 3rd in the computer race ...San Angelo....

So Arctic Sunset did 'win' it.Amazing how I can remember something which happened in 1967,whilst I can barely remember what I did yesterday.

that's cos you have little to no interest in what you did yesterday 

I remember backing Vulmidas in the race and couldn't believe it wasn't placed.

From the Pathe news clip I was surprised that the bookmakers were taking bets on it and at the time I just assumed that the BBC was just making it up.

IT ALWAYS COMES DOWN TO THATCHERISM ................LET THEM EAT GRASS ,THEYLL GET USED TO IT

I SPOKE YESTERDAY WITH MY GOOD FREIND "MARTYN of LEICESTER " AKA "THE SMARTER INVESTOR"...........HE WAS IN RAPTURES,ITS COME OFF HEADS FOR ME BIG TIME HE SAYS MY BEST PITCHES ARE ON THE JUMPS (ya see its now a jumps fixture not flat) ILL GET THE LOT ,"ILL BRING THE BLUE LIGHT SYSTEM WITH ME ,THE BOARD THAT GOES BUST AND THE BOARD THAT CANT GO ANY BIGGER ....MY 3 MAIN BOARDS HES SAYS ,ILL TAKE IT ALL

Given the number of piss-heads who turn up at Sandown on Whitbread day I wouldn't have thought it made any difference which code they were betting on.

The best day imo ,was next weeks Newmarket card , Cesarewitch , Champion Stakes , Jockey Club , Dewhurst.....

That's gone , now the traditional Whitbread mixed card is gone .

I despair at the changes the people with power over this wonderful sport are making  .

I AGREE SITWOTSIX ....BUT THEY DONT GIVE A MONKEYS

CHAMPION STAKES DAY AT NEWMARKET .....IT WAS BETTER THAN ARC DAY ......COMING INTO THEM FINAL 2 FURLONGS ON THAT ROWLEY MILE AFTER BEING OUT IN THE COUNTRY ,LEGENDS APPEARED IN FRONT OF YOUR EYS ,IT WAS MAGICAL STUFF ..........I WAS SO HONOURED ,I FELT SO HUMBLE ,SO PROUD ,EMOTIONAL TO SEE FRANKEL MAKE ALL THE RUNNING THAT DAY TO WIN HOW HE DID ,AND THEY TOOK ONE OF THE BEST EVER DAYS RACING AWAY FROM THAT COURSE ,I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW SOME FEEEL WHEN THEY LOSE THE TRADIOTIONAL WHITBREAD DAY