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In my selection process, I almost never take the jockey into account and of I do, it'll only be to swerve a particularly bad claimer.
However, when it comes to top flight stuff, I am of the view there is very little between the jockeys. Sure, I have jockeys I like and admire, but I think it is rare that they make the difference in a race.
Does anyone have any examples of rides they would like to discuss where they believe that the race was won ONLY because of the jockey on board, rather than the ability of the horse? Not really wanting races where jockeys have f**ked up and lost a race, because jockeys obviously get their rides wrong. Looking for rides where the ability of the jockey has is the only reason the horse has won.
Thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss
However, when it comes to top flight stuff, I am of the view there is very little between the jockeys. Sure, I have jockeys I like and admire, but I think it is rare that they make the difference in a race.
Does anyone have any examples of rides they would like to discuss where they believe that the race was won ONLY because of the jockey on board, rather than the ability of the horse? Not really wanting races where jockeys have f**ked up and lost a race, because jockeys obviously get their rides wrong. Looking for rides where the ability of the jockey has is the only reason the horse has won.
Thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss
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Mickey jo Kinane beating my beloved Falbrav in the Irish Champion 2003
have a ganders
have a ganders
1972 Epsom Derby
Lester Piggott lifting Roberto over the line to beat Ernie Johnson on Rheingold.
Lester Piggott lifting Roberto over the line to beat Ernie Johnson on Rheingold.
MJKinane dropped the whip on Giants Causeway in 2000 Breeders Cup.
btn short head by Tiznow
Coolmore rowed him out soon after
Even spencer was a better alternative
btn short head by Tiznow
Coolmore rowed him out soon after
Even spencer was a better alternative
Moore on Notnowcato 2007 Eclipse,
came up the stand side if I'm right.
came up the stand side if I'm right.
Can I say one lost by a jockey?, Christy Roche Irish Champion stakes St Jovite v Dr Devious, Roche seemed to ease up just before the line and allowed Dr Devious to get his head down.
Still to this day can't believe the media never said a word?
Still to this day can't believe the media never said a word?
Willie carson taking the under the tree route at ascot, can't remember the horse
Lester on The Minstrel in the 1977 Derby in a driving finish to beat Hot Grove. Had that horse been ridden by any other jockey he would have finished 2nd imo.
Brian Taylor
Snow Knight
The Derby 1974
100% Brian
Always a fractious colt, in the paddock at Epsom Snow Knight threw jockey Brian Taylor, and at the starting gate was still fighting his handlers.
Sent off at odds of 50:1
Put simply Brian " slipped " a far superior field down the hill and around tatt' corner and a relentless chase ensured up the straight
where Snow Knight hung on to beat the cavalry including fav Giocommettio ( spelling ? )
Any Old Timers remember this ? and see it the same way ?
Good Luck to All !
Snow Knight
The Derby 1974
100% Brian
Always a fractious colt, in the paddock at Epsom Snow Knight threw jockey Brian Taylor, and at the starting gate was still fighting his handlers.
Sent off at odds of 50:1
Put simply Brian " slipped " a far superior field down the hill and around tatt' corner and a relentless chase ensured up the straight
where Snow Knight hung on to beat the cavalry including fav Giocommettio ( spelling ? )
Any Old Timers remember this ? and see it the same way ?
Good Luck to All !
johnny murtagh on rebel rouser in ascot gold cup.
think he got a ban for the ride. seem to remember it was under the whip on leaving the stalls.
think he got a ban for the ride. seem to remember it was under the whip on leaving the stalls.
Ribero when he beat Sir Ivor in the 1968 Irish Derby.
Lester Piggott rode Sir Ivor to victory in the Epsom Derby,Vincent OBrien had a deal then that Liam Ward rode his horses in Ireland so Ward replaced Piggott,a huge mistake as Lester got the mount on Ribero.
Lester knew that Sir Ivor didnt truly stay so rode the stoutly bred Ribero for stamina turning over the 1/3 non staying Roberto.
A pattern developing here Lester keeps cropping up.
Lester Piggott rode Sir Ivor to victory in the Epsom Derby,Vincent OBrien had a deal then that Liam Ward rode his horses in Ireland so Ward replaced Piggott,a huge mistake as Lester got the mount on Ribero.
Lester knew that Sir Ivor didnt truly stay so rode the stoutly bred Ribero for stamina turning over the 1/3 non staying Roberto.
A pattern developing here Lester keeps cropping up.
slightly off topic butbest ever ride for me was yes that man lester again, on fairy footsteps 1000 gns, have a look on you tube, followed by lester again on commanche run York int v oh so sharp. wonderful horse racing era 70s 80s
I think all top class jockey's go on rolls when they are riding out of their skin and exuding supreme confidence. Although this is helped by having the backing of a yard that is firing, they sometimes win races that leave you feeling sure there would have been a different result if the riders were switched.
There have been many examples that I remember right from Willie Carson being on one such roll in the mid-summer of 1978 , to Fallon, firstly during one particular season with the Ramsdens, then during a couple of heady runs after moving south.
There have been many examples that I remember right from Willie Carson being on one such roll in the mid-summer of 1978 , to Fallon, firstly during one particular season with the Ramsdens, then during a couple of heady runs after moving south.
AP on Edredon Bleu in the Champion Chase in 2000. AP was magnificent in one of best races ever at the Festival imo.
if you listen to any racing presenter or caller,every single horse that McCoy wins on where he has to use the whip
Joined: 23 Mar 06 | Topic/replies: 191 | Blogger: Know Won Nose's blog
Bahri beating Ridgewood Pearl i think, Ladycarla.
Thanks for that, gonna try and watch it again class ride.
Bahri beating Ridgewood Pearl i think, Ladycarla.
Thanks for that, gonna try and watch it again class ride.
Adrian Maguire on Cool Ground beating the Fellow narrowly in the Gold Cup, would probably get a 6 month today such was the ferocious beating he gave the horse.
How in Gods name has AP MCCOY on WICHITA LINEMAN not been mentioned?
Always the top races that get remembered especially Lester, but bear in mind his "rat a tat" whipping style would have got him banned after those Derby rides on Roberto and The Minstrel now! Not that he'd have been bothered because the horses would have kept the races.
Wichita Lineman overrated imo -- AP got home on the well-backed favourite.
ladycarla Joined: 03 Sep 06
Replies: 563 08 Jun 13 23:30
Willie carson taking the under the tree route at ascot, can't remember the horse
Bahri
Replies: 563 08 Jun 13 23:30
Willie carson taking the under the tree route at ascot, can't remember the horse
Bahri
kalanisi at royal ascot at the meeting where fallon got his fall,cant remember the race but remember he was stoking it up all the way
Can anybody name one example of the jockey making the horse go faster than it was capable of?
Kalanisi was in the Queen Anne in 2000. You're right pandora that was a good ride by Fallon that day.
yes pauli that was fallon on the green aga silks,happy days,then murtagh got the ride on kalanisi and the rest is history
If Piggott's whip a stride style was so effective, then why didn't everybody copy it?
Red Marauder - Richard Guest horse barely jumped a fence still dont know how it got round imho
Joseph o'brien-Imperial Monarch last season in the classic trial at Sandown
Mr Pipe must have won a hundred races he shouldn't have, all McCoy
had to do was send the horse to the front and not fall off.
had to do was send the horse to the front and not fall off.
Lester Piggot Commanche Run Benso & Hedges York beat triple Crown Winner Oh So Sharp with a wonderfull execution of front running and winding gallop all way up straight of the Knavesmire.
Dr Crippen, the reason jockeys didn't copy Lester's "style" I would suggest, might be that they didn't have his strength and balance in the saddle
pandora1963 Date Joined: 28 Aug 07
fallon on kris kin in the derby
This is the one that stands out for me, too.
I don't think this horse would have won with any other jockey on it.
Of the jockeys riding today, only Ryan Moore may have been capable of winning on Kris Kin.
fallon on kris kin in the derby
This is the one that stands out for me, too.
I don't think this horse would have won with any other jockey on it.
Of the jockeys riding today, only Ryan Moore may have been capable of winning on Kris Kin.
AP MCCOY - FOLIE A DEUX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_2lrNt11Hw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_2lrNt11Hw
never seen a judge award a race to a jockey and not a horse
2 that stand out for me .
Commanche run - lester piggott leger
snow fairy --------ryan moore
Commanche run - lester piggott leger
snow fairy --------ryan moore
Chris Catlin on Rye in 2004 at Lingfield AW beat Ballinger Ridge.
Going back a bit - Lester winning the 1968 Leger by a sht hd on Ribero, without using the whip - he only used his rat-a-tat whip technique when he had to.
One that stands out, Fortune (fortunately!) getting jocked off for Frankie on Ravens Pass.
kpf 09 Jun 13 15:25
F rankie on Fujiama Crest
-------------------
He asked for Jockey .... not JockeyS
F rankie on Fujiama Crest
-------------------
He asked for Jockey .... not JockeyS
Lester Piggot on Saritamer in the 1973 Cork and Orrery,he was losing out in a 3 horse run to the line,so he pulled his whip through and with his left arm lifted the horse up and with whip flaying threw the horse over the line,won by a neck.
Also the race after he won the 76 Derby on Empery,he was in front on Misterbigsomethingorother for a trainer calld Revelly,a jockey swept passed him a half furlong out and went a length clear,and Piggot looked at him as if to say"Oi,this is my race"and promptly went back past him,remarkable.
No jockey these days gets anywhere near him.
Also the race after he won the 76 Derby on Empery,he was in front on Misterbigsomethingorother for a trainer calld Revelly,a jockey swept passed him a half furlong out and went a length clear,and Piggot looked at him as if to say"Oi,this is my race"and promptly went back past him,remarkable.
No jockey these days gets anywhere near him.
Mark Birch on Able Albert 1984 Ayr Gold cup (29)
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys0Lb4SL_OI
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys0Lb4SL_OI
Synchronized Lexus Chase win at Leopardstown with Tony McCoy getting him home.
Victoire Pisa 2011 Dubai World Cup ridden by Mirco Demuro. Been watching racing 15 years and never seen a ride like that, last to first midway through the race. No way would it have won if he had sat out the back.
Ruby Walsh this season on Tidal Bay in the Lexus was pretty impressive.
pipedreamer, the horse concerned was Mr Nice Guy trained by Eddie Reavey, who beat Mandalus, who was making its debut under George Duffield, by a short head, a paragraph from the Irish Examiner describes it well,
Piggott, minus his cap but none of his brilliance, then forced Mr Nice Guy up at the line to complete a double in the Woodcote Stakes. Lester slapped the colt four times in one stride near the post to win by a short head.
Piggott, minus his cap but none of his brilliance, then forced Mr Nice Guy up at the line to complete a double in the Woodcote Stakes. Lester slapped the colt four times in one stride near the post to win by a short head.
Christy Roche on Secreto 1984 Derby.....inspired last half furlong to beat the 'unbeatable' El Gran Senor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEe263QHHjA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEe263QHHjA
OUTSTANDING!!!..... Your knowledge of racing is truly remarkable Zealot.........There were also stamina doubts about the winner as it happens but of course you already know
that........keep up the good work...a place alongside Jim and Graeme beckons.....
Your knowledge of racing is truly remarkable Zealot.........There were also stamina doubts about the winner as it happens but of course you already know that........keep up the good work...a place alongside Jim and Graeme beckons.....
Jason Maguire on DJ Milan in a Weatherby novice hurdle 31/5/2012 . Well worth a look if you can dig up on Sportinglife web site.
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