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Whoever made the call to hope that Dawn Approach didn't win the 2000 Guineas before contacting the customers concerned knows very little about PR, imo...
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It has always been outrageous that when a firm accepts a bet, it does not really accept it. Instead, it takes possession of the bet with a vague promise to look at it once the result is known, and only then decide whether or not it will take the bet.
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wonder if they voided or returned bets on frankel 2000 , derby double, im certain many did that
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This has been badly handled by Hills. And very badly managed PR-wise thereafter.
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I'm glad that you have sorted the bet however them offering you 15/1 was a disgrace as Dawn Approach was 12/1 just to win the Derby at the time of your bet.. i do think though that your bet would have not attracted there attention if DA had only been placed in the 2000 and if placed in the derby then i am sure you would have got the place double IE returns of 200.00 but we will never know.these bets will always be taken in error as staff are just not clued up enough which is down to the poor training they receive and don't understand that it is related and that's down to the training i guess as most people in betting shops these days only have to turn a key in the door put the papers up empty fobs and make tea or coffee ............. iv worked in betting shops for 30 years + and mostly independent and when we get Related bets on horse etc we use the chart that works out the 1st goal/correct score chart which is much more fair i reckon IE van persie 1st goal 4/1 man United to win 3-1 12/1 would be on average between 28/1 - 33/1 it would also be around that price in all HILLS shops ..... its very similar to the related DA bet IE one part going on to the other and a fair price and how they come up with 15/1 is/was a rip off ............. all related bets in my opinion should be done this way it works with no problems on the score cast prices and punters accept it so take note hills ETC and get the price and how to create the right price ...... there must be thousands of bets unclaimed around the country if they are splitting stakes on related horse bets that have been split due to staff error .....now i wonder what price HILLS etc will offer me on Joyeuse to win 2014 Oak - 1000 Guineas @ the moment its about 14/1 for the 1000 guineas and 20/1 for the oaks .. the double price is 251/1 using the chart the price would be roughly 100 - 125/1 ........... hills i guess using there system or what ever way they decide would properly be 33/1 if your lucky PATHETIC PRICE..............
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Mr Pollard not the innocent he's trying to portray, W/Hill would never advertise 65/1 dawn approach to win both,
but, by taking advantage of poorly trained staff managed to delude them into laying multiple odds, special odds on related bets have been around for donkey years. even recreational punters are aware of that. not defending w/hill, bad management, but still sharp practice. |
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I DEFINETLEY AGREE MR.DENNIS
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he's a journalist with 6,000 Twitter followers - the William Hill social media team need to get with the programme.
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also, they now surely have to honour the bet for anybody else who placed it - inconceivable that he's the only one?
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reaseheath WADDA YA THINKS GOING TO HAPPEN
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I WONDER IF MR.POLLARDS SHUT UP OR IS HE CARRYING ON THE FIGHT FOR THE REST OF THEM
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yep, his Twitter feed says they've agreed to pay out everyone who has had the bet, fair enough.
Notwithstanding the poor staff training, you'd think they'd have a system which flagged it up when staff try to process the bet, presumably that's what would happen if you tried to place it online. |
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Barry,
If Mr Pollard was not aware of odds on related bets he has been nothing other than naïve, we don't know. William Hill need to be looking at the reason why their staff member took the bet, was he / she poorly trained ?, I'm sure their staff will be trained to encourage their customers to use the terminals possibly at the expense of ensuring they are aware of the rules of sports betting. Does the current staffing levels mean this type of error will regularly slip through the net ? How do they manage future sports betting issues ?, this one has been badly managed. |
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related bets as i am sure you all know have been taken for donkey years and will continue to be taken regardless of the training staff are given ...there's nothing wrong with this type of bet its the price that's the problem as i said in my earlier post bookmakers should come up with a chart similar to the scorecast chart .... this would then stop all the confusion regarding the price its not rocket science and easy to do and with a bit of common sense most managers would be able to explain this to PUNTERS and STAFF
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SPOT ON ...SNA
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Could this particular bet have actually been placed online, pretty sure not many over the counter customers leave their
email address. |
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IF IT GETS BEAT WHATS THAT GOTTA DO WITH IT ....IF IT WINS THEY DRAW
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The OP said he spotted the prices on the WH website. Not clear if bet placed by that channel.If it was then WH don't hav a leg to stand on do they.......?
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If the bet was placed in a shop,it would have had to be transelated,this would of alerted the cashier that something was amiss.
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Stephen Pollard @stephenpollard They've agreed to pay out on everyone who had the bet. Agree I probably had a head start but others can tweet too
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Barry Dennis -- Is it Mr Pollard's fault that the staff are poorly trained ?
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He's in the bathroom sinking the bismark, i'll give him a shout ..Barrrryyyyyyy
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pilsudski, not Mr Pollards fault, palpable error is a rule for exactly that, staff error and stroke pullers.
just got 12 England to win ashes should have been 1/2 shall I try to claim it? |
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Surely the interesting part of this is how worried they are about the impact that media platforms they don't own or control can have on their business.
Obviously in our industry, where the media is institutionally corrupt when it comes to the bookmakers, they can shaft punters all day long. But when the underhand and cynical manner in which they routinely behave gets into the mainstream they back track faster than Vodkatini after the tapes have gone up... |
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Barry, you are right, obviously, but it was cynical and extremely badly advised to wait and see if Dawn Approach won the Guineas before they decided there was a problem, imo...
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millhouse, agree 100%, when did this palpable error first get recognised, if before guineas, very poor P/R
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Surely that's the point. The fact notification of the error was given after the first leg of the bet means the bet should be honoured.
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I think we can be pretty sure they knew all about it Barry - clearly they figured they were odds on not to have to worry about the problem any more after the Guineas had been run...
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better P/R. keep stuhm pay the geezer if it wins and politely tell him to off
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Fair comment BR. Conversely I had a problem with a bet with the same bookmaker. I was a good loser over a period of years but was let down badly. Havent bet with them since.
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Everyone knows the bet shouldn't have been priced like that but any pity for WH went straight out the window
William Hill's social media team provided an object lesson in how to dig even deeper into a hole. Because I did, at last, start getting a response from William Hill: to my tweets, and those from others who tweeted the story. And boy, were they bad: spectacularly sneering – as if they realty had better things to do than waste their time on an idiot like me. After I pointed out that their behaviour showed they couldn’t be trusted to honour a bet struck seven months ago, they replied: “@WillHillBet: @stephenpollard Trust is built by adhering to our terms & rules which are we correct any obvious errors. The bet stands at the right price.” When I said they had voided the bet, they replied: “For clarification, the bet is not void. It stands at the correct price of 15/1 or can be split into singles at marked odds” And when I pointed out it took seven months for them to decide the bet was a mistake, they said: “It was accepted in error seven months ago but has only come to our attention since the first leg won.” And that was it – the sum total of the response William Hill deigned to make to my emails and tweets. |
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be interesting to know what happened in previous years e.g. Camelot last year and the polar opposite case of Frankel the year before.
hardly an unusual bet, I would have thought. |
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dont overlook the fact that the punter would know he was pulling a stroke
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Bookmakers are in too much of a rush to get to the future. I'm sure none of your staff 20-30 years ago would have even entertained them. Most people who applie for a job in a betting shop around my time 70s-80s would be asked what's a bottle at a neves to ruof. You had to have some semblance of an iota about horse racing and if you didn't you started by marking the board. Now you neither know how to work out the odds or even know what Arkle-Red Rum-Kauto Star-Frankel were. So i have no pity on them. Feck them all.
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is there a simple rule here then?
ante-post multiples involving the same horse are not allowed |
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How, in fairness, could the price for Dawn Approach to win both races be just 15/1 when the horse was 12/1 to win just one leg of the double? And you suggest this gentleman was pulling a fast one Mr Dennis. I suggest you take a closer look at Hills' behaviour in this instance at initially offering such an obviously meagre price.
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Where do you draw the line here?
What is to stop a fraudulent group paying for a person to work at a bookmakers and take all dodgy related bets etc? If you allow this type of thing to happen all you do is encourage the bookmakers to sack the staff for being incompetent otherwise you can never stop it. |
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presumably they can use their Business Analytics solution to trawl their databases for all such bets placed over the last x years and void them?
Personally I think you should be looking to draw the line before the first leg of the bet wins - not that difficult for a FTSE 100 company to run an exception report and remove the problem at source. Whether the originator of the bet was trying it on or not, he placed the bet last October. If I were a Hills shareholder, this escapade would not fill me with confidence in their Business Systems. |
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the sp double is about 4/1, which makes 15/1 look generous.
As I said earlier, Willihill have acted appallingly. but every punter in the world is aware that the bet is related and impossible to get multiple odds. please get me cook top batter 5/1 swan top wickettaker6/1 and england to win first test 7/4£500 patent |