a man wearing a help for heroes t shirt killed in woolwich by 2 men police open fire

Somalian on benefits is what I'm predicting

We're just too soft

The enemy within nowadays blend in so easily
It's a no win situation

If these pieces of **** want to do it they'll do it

No matter how many counter terrorism officers we have

I agree with the last few posts but maybe this time there was a feeling that it was "just"  a targeted crime attack. And of course that's the shocking thing. It's become normal. Except next time people may be more careful as terrorists could kill anyone.

nineiron ,

you're right. The communities may decide there is only one  way to fight it.

I'v yet to see or hear a single representative from any of the muslim leadership,
voicing condemnation of this sub human horror.

motley there has been one on bbc  tv news rolling text

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

‘IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It.

“I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. ‘This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom’ We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!’

‘Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture. ‘We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.’

‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, ‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE‘.’

‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.’

the part of this everybody seems to have missed is the police waited 20 mins for armed responce to arrive,they didnt even stop the public going up/down the street for a look
if these 2 guys wanted they could have killed dozens.

If people do not like the UK or it's values then leave and go and live somewhere more akin to your beliefs.  We have Sharia Law courts in the UK and they are extreme.  I read a few weeks ago that a man was found guilty in a Saudi Sharia court and sentenced to be paralysed from the waist down.  What kind of people are these?  There are many Muslims who openly advocate this sort of "justice" and would be happy to see it introduced here.  My simple solution would be if you want to live under Sharia Law then go and live in a country where it is used.

Exactly what the Aussies are saying, Pauli.
And imo it's what the UK government should say, instead they are too afraid of offending anybody.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

Cracked , I fear the police are not going to "learn " from this. It's quite clear ordinary officers are not prepared to put themselves in ANY danger. The couldn't deal with the riots so there's no hope with what may be coming.

If this type of random incident becomes more prevalent the Government will have to think seriously about arming all police officers.  As a nation we need to go on the offensive and stop playing Mr Nice Guy all the time.

we must never depend on the police for any help whatsoever they are just a big army of bullies.

I heard someone say that 20 mins for armed police response is good. How can that be good?

A Mumbai style attack with better weapons must be the biggest fear. Unarmed police are not willing to take on armed criminals. The public just seemed to look and carry on moving their shopping trolly along the street.

If innocent white english people are going to be killed on there own  streets, then the Govt and police have a big problem, because they are too scared to offend minorities, then people will take the law in to there own hands..

Boris Johnson has been on TV saying the killings have nothing to do with Islam.  I'm sorry Boris but you need to get your fcking head out of your arse.  It's got everything to do with Islam.  Yet another example of a politician too afraid to tell it as it really is.

what I find strange is nobody i.e. the police the media are asking
do you know who these people are
where do they come from ect. very stange

Sky news mentioned something about them having links to Nigeria where the north of the country is predominantly Muslim.

Interesting that that the police were hiding around the corner while members of the public where rationalizing with executioners with bloody hands carrying meat clever`s.

David Cameron spouting on about not being cowered by these attacks.

Meantime the Army has been issued with orders not to wear their uniforms in British streets.

Terrorists are still laughing at us in the courts and cant be deported.

20 years of lily livered ,pc correct politicians are responsible for this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328035/Machete-killer-Kenyan-man-butchered-400-people-homeland-stay-UK-benefits.html

Only in Britain ^

APART FROM THE BRUTAL MURDER OF THIS GUY,THE MOST SHOCKING THING FOR ME IS THE PEOPLE WHO JUST STAND AND WATCH,MAKE NO ATTEMPT TO TRY TO STOP OR APPREHEND THESE SCUM,IT USED TO BE TYPICAL OF LONDON WERE PEOPLE WOULD JUT WALK PAST MUGGINGS AND BEATINGS,EVEN MURDER AND NOT EVEN BAT AN EYELID BUT I FEAR THIS IS NOW A NATION WIDE DISEASE.

If unarmed police failed to intervene, one can hardly blame the public.
But yes people tend 'to walk by on the other side' now

I agree we should remember we are a Christian society..
and supposedly a society of free speech
Muslims must respect this or leave our shores.

However I feel our foreign policy is wrong. We must stop attacking Muslim countries,
stop supporting Israel(they are not Christians either) and stop blindly following America.

We have 1.6 million Muslims in this country.

My views on our foreign policy are not influenced by this attack
or indeed any other terrorist attack.
they are my own belief and of course as do we all I believe everyone has a right to this

Why no response from the barracks? Armed soldiers are in the guard room just yards away.  why did the police take so long.?

Just seen on the news, all army barracks are guarded by unarmed private security firms. Today at the barracks near where it happened there are armed soldiers standing alongside the security guards.

Soldiers should be guarding their own barracks I would have thought, it's not as if the barracks are going to be the target of shoplifters.

time the police were fully armed to protect the public.

deepest symphany to the young mans family and friends.

RIP

Just reported that the police were "at the scene in 9 minutes, which beggars the question wtf were they doing?

Filling in a risk assessment form guinness

Know what irks me the most is the obtuseness of liberals and do gooders

time the police were fully armed to protect the public.

utter nonsense.


time we stopped allowing openly ANTI-BRITISH people to live in this country.

Get tough on immigration.  Vote for a party who is committed to HALTING immigration.

THEN get tough on those who are here. 

Make it AN OFFENCE to violently express or encourage anti-british sentiment.

AS a nation we are just a flock of sheep, who belive/follow what ever the media/government want us to belive, OUR TROOPS should be pulled out of all muslim countries, if anyone belives the **** we are there for peace in the region you are seriously stoopid, all we are there for is money money money, oil control, we have removed saddem/gaddafi/bin laden, so lets get out!!, then we should ban all single faith schools, theres two guys were just complete nutters who done this on there own accord, and had so much hate but why?? why the hate??

One of them seems to have been a convert from a Christian family. Often the worst it seems.

WHY THE HATE????? PROBABLY DIDNT GET ENOUGH DOLE MONEY FROM THE COUNTRY THEY LIVE IN AND HATE..,,.,.HELP THE HEROES CHARITY ONLY EXISTS BECAUSE OUR GOVT DONT LOOK AFTER OUR OWN TROOPS,  TRAVESTY

It appears that the 2 men were known to the security services.  Some searching questions will need to be asked.

if you ask me---if someone wants to kill anyone---then die or surrender----impossible to stop

Makes no difference if they are known to the security forces.

What can they do without help from the politicians and the courts.

They actually released a load of terrorists so they can wander about the streets but have to stay indoors at certain times and not to play with any computers.

These Labour politicians coming on the telly and spouting sh1te as well really annoys me.They are the very politicians who oppose everything under the Human Rights.

We have folded on our Cristian faith/beliefs we have given in to the Libgay anything goes society we are dictated to and are bow down to left/secularists who are destroying ahatever we had in the way of culture/heritage or way of life,we are weak and elect and follow weak leaders over the cliff then moan all the way home,I don,t know if anyone has seen the you-tube film of the young girl just returned to her home town of Luton in time to see a muslim march against this country and what,s left of what it ever believed in,she took the battle to them and was most vociferous and succinct in her condemnation and she would not be cowed in the face of some serious intimidation she was a very brave kid,it should have been headlines in the media but I saw little or nothing alluding to it,I would vote for the likes of her anyday,good on you kid.

You're right Barney, it's definitely the 'Libgay anything goes', and 'secularists' who are responsible for religious nutcases hacking people to death.

ffs.

I didn,t say anything like that dr gonzo what I said is that they are a huge chunk of what/why we have lost our way,they are in the main meally mouthed morons who have no bottle for the real battle and believe me we are facing some troubling times.

BARNEY I just watched that you tube video with Stacey Dooley returning to Luton.

Thats really scarey.

She is threatened and told she is practically naked.

They are yelling British police burn in hell then the head guy tells her ALL non muslims should burn in hell,while guys in the background have posters demanding Sharia law in the UK.

WTF has happened to this country and the leaders.

I thought she was terrific Shudacuda,I am as far away from being racist as you can get but really we are capitulating to the real "racists" among them radical muslims,get shot of them nobody ever asks them that if they are are so noble/honest people why do they accept the benefits of living here.

Ive no problems with anyones sexuality and our secular society, its secular society that promotes separation of religion and state anyway, and that can only be a good thing?, but its these libgays that preach tolerance for all creeds and colour that keep on making excuses for this mad religion called Islam that tolerates nobody but themselves that does my head in.

Make it AN OFFENCE to violently express or encourage anti-british sentiment.

I shall have to mute my comments next time I watch our national football team play

its not so much anti-British sentiment
as
hacking somebody's head off

But don't worry Silvergreaser I shall be voting UKIP at next election
I wont forgive Cameron pushing Gay Marriage on us...

everybody at least got a vote on this  in American States
should have been a referendum

oops gone off subject

Boy am I glad none of the morons on here don't have any say in anything of any signifance. Really would be f-c-e-d then. Stick your comments in the Daily M*** where they belong/originate.

Guardian reading liberal do-gooder and f---ing proud of it.

did anybody notice the ethnicity of the people who tried to help and the people who just walked past?
I think I missed that part.

Guardian reading liberal do-gooder and f---ing proud of it

oh dear.

bet boy, you, and cowards like you, are part of the cause.
scared to offend..

if you ask me---if someone wants to kill anyone---then die or surrender----impossible to stop

very true xmoneyx

with 1.6 million Muslims in this country, we are vulnerable,
like it or not

I think we are paying for some very poor foreign policy decisions by our Government
we must stop blindly following America...they don't have the large indigenous Muslim population that we have
we are in the wrong anyway

I am saying that we give in to terrorism.....but
the problem is we are in the wrong anyway.. in my opinion
You see if this sets a precedent we could have more of this happening
how do we stop it
Our government must think and tread carefully
this has serious implications

guy was born Lambeth,went to Greenwich university,had own stall in market

so WASN'T a crazy

Should we be worried about the ` One pound fish very very cheap` chap?

how much are yer prawns m8?

These guys were supposedly members of a banned Islamic organisation Al Muhajiroun , but according to its spokesman they disappeared  for 2 years?, well if you're going to conduct jihadist activities best to lie low and not be seen visiting meetings for this banned organisation wouldnt it considering the authorities would be watching their every move like a hawk?.

everybody at least got a vote on this  in American States


No they didn't.

R.I.P. Drummer Lee Rigby..

Drummer Lee Rigby of 2nd Battalion, The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers. R.I.P.

RIP. 25 years old, such a young life.

poor lad rip

#helptheheroes and if you're interested check out the wok the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fun has done....granted its American but they're doing the same job vs these sort of savages.

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/337601456058269696/photo/1

will this mean that the clowns in downing street will stop supporting the rebels in syria, who carry out this type of attack every day, or is it only unacceptable when they do it to us, but when our allies do it they get the support of the british people

One practical solution
is to allow our troops to carry a 9mm pistol on/off duty when leaving Barracks
should not have to.. but would stop copy cat attacks

As I said horusisis we need to look again at our foreign policy
a more neutral stance as regards Israel v Arabs(the base cause of all this everywhere, in my opinion)
may yield better results

will this mean that the clowns in downing street will stop supporting the rebels in syria, who carry out this type of attack every day, or is it only unacceptable when they do it to us, but when our allies do it they get the support of the british people

Spot on.

These two butchers who killed the soldier hold the same view point as the Free Syria Army extremists who are being supplied by Cameron and Hague. The odd Islam extremist comes in handy for our government every now and then, perhaps they should fix these two butchers up and fly them out to Syria to help out.

Sincerest sympathies and condolences to the family and friends of Drummer Lee Rigby.  May you Rest In Peace.

death penalty in usa.not here though,tax payer,will pay 50yrs, at least to keep them alive.

California
The Death penalty is rather pricey.


Assessment of Costs by Judge Arthur Alarcon and Prof. Paula Mitchell (2011, updated 2012)

The authors concluded that the cost of the death penalty in California has totaled over $4 billion since 1978:

$1.94 billion--Pre-Trial and Trial Costs
$925 million--Automatic Appeals and State Habeas Corpus Petitions
$775 million--Federal Habeas Corpus Appeals
$1 billion--Costs of Incarceration
The authors calculated that, if the Governor commuted the sentences of those remaining on death row to life without parole, it would result in an immediate savings of $170 million per year, with a savings of $5 billion over the next 20 years.

I don't understand that.

Whether you had the death penalty or not, surely there would still be pre-trial, trial and incarceration costs, plus appeals against life without parole?

ebulgery, Funny thing is, all these middle eastern and north african arab nations were all built up around power, corruption, greed and control, they only beat the anti western stick when it suited them, they usually hated each others guts anyway?.

The likes of Gaddafi, Mubarrak, Saddam, Assad etc, tyrants that they were usually kept the Islamic fundamentalists well in check, better off with the devil you know, this so called Arab Spring is helping put these fundamentalists into power, believe me things will be a lot worse when these crazed madmen and their controlling suffocating religion subdue the populous even more than their predecessors did.

There might have been Palestinian terrorism but it was never built around fundamentalism but when the Shah of Iran was was deposed and that madman the Ayatollah took power Islamic fundamentalism suddenly became a very real threat to western civilization, before that fundamentalism was virtually unheard of, not only did the Ayatollah stir up anti USA sentiment all over the Arab world but his Hezbollah (party of god) then spread into the Lebanon to exasperate that already volatile country and provoke Israel, all arabs hate Israel so that was a no brainer for the Ayatollah.

Who knows in the not too distant future strict forms of Sharia Law might become more common place in many Arab nations if this Arab spring continues to go unchecked while been funded by naive western governments?.

Sincerest sympathies and condolences to the family and friends of Drummer Lee Rigby.  May you Rest In Peace.

well said pauli

I and all others on here agree with those sentiments

John

Legal costs: Almost all people facing the death penalty cannot afford their own attorney. The state must assign them two public defenders, and pay for the costs of the prosecution as well.

Pre-trial costs: Capital cases are far more complicated than non-capital  cases. Experts will probably be needed on forensic evidence, mental health and the social history of the defendant.

Jury selection: Because of the death penalty question, jury selection in capital cases is much more time consuming and expensive.

Trial: Death penalty trials can last over four times longer, requiring juror and attorney compensation, in addition to court personnel and other related costs.

Incarceration: Most death rows involve solitary confinement in a special facility. These require more security  and other accommodations as the prisoners are kept for 23 hours a day in their cells.

Appeals: To minimize mistakes, every inmate is entitled to a series of appeals. The costs are borne at taxpayers' expense. These appeals are essential because some inmates have come within hours of execution before evidence was uncovered proving their innocence.

1st politician puts his head above the parapet tells these tw@ts one word of jihaad you & your family will be removed from this country that day will get in by a landslide.Its time to fight back against this filth.Die all of you.

I accept there are some added costs, but the original figures weren't clearly given as added, just as costs by themselves.

At a rough guess, that billion dollars incarceration costs works out at roughly $42,000 per prisoner extra per year at the current rate of 725 death row inmates, so a billion isn't that much over 33 years.

Some of it doesn't make sense. The same poorer people would still be committing the crimes regardless of the punishment, so unless the second lawyer was being scrapped that part doesn't add up.

I can't be bothered researching anything else. I'm not in favour of it by the way.

You may get some answers here John, it takes some digesting.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/california-cost-study-2011

reasonable as ever I see DancingDenman


well it may come to that

ebul going buy a £5 electric card you can countinue the debate kn0bhead.

I am afraid I have no answer Silvergreaser

other than we return to the decent principle of 'British fair play'

the problem is...I do see Israel are defending themselves
but this defence in itself has become a greater evil than the threats they face
Lebanon was a nice country before Israel invaded it
For every Israeli citizen killed, they kill one hundred Palestinians in return
that is what the Germans did in WWII

I feel this country should remain neutral ..there is nothing we can do

As for Syria, the West, Israel although supplying rebels with arms...cannot interfere
because we are afraid of being drawn into direct confrontation with Assad's backer Russia
I feel sorry for the Syrians, it seems to have degenerated into the Wild West now....very sad

just my opinion of course

knobhead yourself DancingDenman

I doubt you could afford the £5 yourself

we're all two-pounders on here

every political leader thruout the world wants to keep power any means

I remember when current Syria leader had a queens reception,Kuwait war

you are right xmoneyx...

it is only a forum

I actually was not digging at DancingDenman
the words die all of you appealed to my warped sense of humour
we have 1.6 million Muslims in this country ..I was imagining it

I apologise DancingDenman

we all have a right to our £2's worth of opinion

diehard

Bruce. Wiillis

EDF Energy ‏@edfenergy 14h

@joshweller Hi Josh. If you are referring to Woolwich, the protest was from the English Defense League (EDL), not EDF Energy. Best, ^TL
Retweeted 3428 times

The problem about deporting those who cry 'jihaad'.. is they will meet in secret
we wont know who they are...until they have acted.. when it is too late

This a very simple and direct terrorist act

I don't think it will catch on.. hopefully
..if it did we would have to allow our troops to carry a pistol off duty
as I have  said previously

and as I have said umpteen times before on here
can our Government reconsider our foreign policy
before others see justice in their cause

I believe in getting  my £2's worth of opinion

I see Cameron has said our troops should continue to proudly display

their uniforms in public

well I suppose he would...

he is not the one who is going to get his head hacked off is he ... a pity

very brave of him...a sad excuse for a man

EbulGery

No reason why Cameron should feel safe. Any extremist that wanted to sniper him could arrange it, they are not bothered about being caught. I think it`s only a matter of time before a big wig is bumped off.

Our foreign policies are an investment for the Globalists future business agenda. The deaths of hundreds of soldiers would never deter this never mind the death of one.

I sadly agree about the death of our soldiers

I just wish we would distance ourselves from this

not at the moment, but at some point this is going to end very badly

America may be able to keep themselves safe. I doubt Israel can .

although if Israel have their own nuclear submarines they may
in fact they probably already have them..
I just feel their cause in untenable in my opinion

There is not a single arab nation that would not be improved by an invasion by Israel

I fear that these fanatics may start using suicide bombers over here.  It was clear that the two men in Woolwich didn't care if the police killed them.

I found some of the video footage interesting,you may notice when the murderers have been shot,that there is one female officer dealing with the murderer in the road(not two? and no sign of the bomb squad,they could have had vest on?) Not sure who fired the bullets on the police side?

There is not a single arab nation that would not be improved by an invasion by Israel

You are wrong in my opinion lfc1971

in fact I would argue the reverse

Jews and muslims have been fighting since the days of Abrahams' concubine Hagar (not the orrible metinks)

I don't care if they are Muslims, Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, Gay, Martians, Klingonian, etc, etc. Or in whatever name they commit the acts they do.

The matter of fact is that the western society has become too lenient and people that do these type of horrible acts, if not killed immediately (a merciful act imo), they end up going to jail and "enjoy" benefits that millions of people out of jail don´t have in this world (guaranteed food, showers, clean clothes, etc, etc). Everyone of them should be kept alive doing hard labor for the rest of their lives with the bare minimum to live and a lot of time to regret.

Send them to a monastery so their souls can be prayed for 24hrs a day - they will realise the path to righteousness soon enough.

kumbaya my Lord kumbaya......

press asking way too intrusive questions--if you ask me

Angel Gabrial 23 May 13 22:22 
You may get some answers here John, it takes some digesting.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/california-cost-study-2011
---

Cheers, I will have a look at that. Last night I was surprised how few people actually get executed, and stay on death row for decades, so all the added costs really add up over time. I'd need to be convinced about alot of the trial costs, as a first degree murder case is hugely expensive regardless.

Surprised how few people get executed sounds incredible when you say it!

Not that i'm in favour of it , but the expense of capital punishment in America is a pretty weak argument against it , as it is hardly necessary for it to cost so much.

The Chinese sentence thousands to death every year and 1.01 they do not spend 1% of what America does on the process.