Betfair to increase commission charges

Commission is immaterial to the winners
How does his vision effect premium tax?

I do not think commission is immaterial to winners as it will reduce profit, no mention of premium charge.
An increase in Australia from 5 to 6.5 was net positive.
They are test pricing in Bulgaria,Moldova,Poland,Finland and Norway. In 4 the rate has been increased by different amounts and lowered in the other.

...but if you win you pay the difference upto your premium rate, so commission has no bearing

Understand now Dusty

I now bet with the purple people.Premium charge would very probably be revenue neutral if they got rid of it.Fair is now being run as it is,a publicly quoted company.That means the management overpay themselves vastly,cost cutting to make it look attractive to other sharks in management(NO real bookmakers here),long term customers have little relevance.Take your business elsewhere if you can get a better price on commission.

I would bet with purple if they did B etdaq SP

Haven,t had a bet with BF for a fair while but went to deposit using Laser(Irish customers Laser to be scrapped on 6th June and replaced by visa debit)during the week, despite saying laser deposits are free in their terms and conditions was asked to pay a 1.5% charge on the deposit, so tried the visa debit and the same charge applied.Fair enough thought maybe its a bank charge and the card does have a charge for a non euro conversion fee so maybe not BFs fault.Didn,t deposit as the daq has no such charges, the bottom line in including the charge it is now costing 6.50% in real terms for your bet against the daqs 3%,simply not viable for me.

If they increase the basic commission rate they will surely lose customers to other exchanges, deservedly imo, pure greed as usual

Of course they will Wee Eck, for anyone having a ton on a 2/1 shot they are likely to get 3.15/3.2 which is then eroded by commision,not to mention not getting bog,no concession for admittedly unlikely S/E and D/h,s and slaughtered by deductions on withdrawals and N/R,s, yeah same with other exchanges true but the product(bf) are in no position to justify a raise in charges when they are starting to look increasingly uncompetitive in the overall market.

lapsy pa when it comes to short priced ones  they the exchanges are mostly not coloured, the prices

on these exchanges are only minutely favourable to the backer and when you take into account commission, dual result possibility

BOG and deduction charges re. non runners I think the high st bookies probably offer better value already

You can't have concessions on an exchange as the layers are just as much customers as backers.
The Australian hike was due to a tax imposed by either the federal or state govts.
I pay 4.7% most of the time so in comparison with a lot who are whining on here I already pay a lot of commission. Alright I don't pay PC,which I think WAS a mistake but at the time it was introduced a number of people suggested a flat rate commission instead. The BIG players were unenthusiastic.

I have always said I would be much happier with a slightly higher commission structure as long as the PC was removed.

salmon, off course you could have concessions on here but it would mean the

exchanges would be putting some of their profits at risk exactly the same as

the high st bookies do.

But if you gave concessions to backers you would have to give them to layers as well surely,which normal bookies don't of course.

salmon, if you think about it it is the same, the bottom line will be on a dual result the bookie

or in relation to this site, the commission agent loses.

Tbh I haven't got much time for these special offers. They are essentially PR stunts and it would be better if the big bookies stopped manipulating the SP in their favour.By and large I am sure backers get a better return on here ( or quack ) than with bookies. If people disagree I don't know why they are on here.

Wouldnt mind slightly higher commission rates if they scrapped PC.

I would prefer a slightly lower commision rate for overall losing players and a slightly higher rate for lifetime winning customers.The higher rates could be scaled depending on individual overall profitability and then do away with the premium charge.They could introduce this with a big publicity campaign announcing the removal of the dreaded premium charge.They would have to do their sums to ensure the revised charges would increase profit margins,not alienate large marketmakers and encourage those that have left to return.This has the potential to give Betfair a huge shot in the arm and a lot of very positive publicity.

salmon, I must disagree with you, the bog and dual result are not gimmicks they are useful

strings to ones to ones bow, ask anyone who has ever benefited from one of these concessions,

I personally have benefited a good many times, long may they last.

Wouldnt mind them upping  the Premium Charge and lower the punters comm rates

That would be the final nail in the BF coffin imo.

amazing how they have phucked this thing up

between 2002 and 2008 I virtually had no bets with any other firms, there was enough liquidity and strong IR markets

I now hardly do any IR trading and turn to the bookies, even though can only get tiny amounts on, for early prices then only back on here in the 10 mins up to the off

no longer special or better, back then everyone who wasn't betting on betfair was losing out

now they're not

Betfair.com defaults to the fixed-odds "sportsbook" and casino. New users have to look around for the Exchange.

That is where growth is expected, and the exchange will be left to its own devices; presumably Betfair thinks everyone who will join the exchange already has done.

Good post Nbdbscms,people are here because it suits them in some cases SS,these cases will become less giving if the op initial posts materialises.Wee Eck is of course right concerning bookmakers and their concessions and makes the exchange uncompetitive at this point never mind a commission hike.

I don't think liquidity has gone down since I've been on here and I suspect it was less in the early days.
It does look as though they are losing interest in the exchange I agree. I suspect they think it's not a viable business model for a public company without the geographical expansion they obviously expected. I would love to know what % of their turnover/profit is on the non-exchange stuff though. I doubt Laddies are quaking in their shoes at the potential of BF's sportsbook.

Liquidity is abysmal. Used to take a fair while to shift a hoss in price, now one half decent bet will move it 10 ticks..

guinness, good part of the liquidity in horseracing on here is provided by course bookies at the earn.

Perhaps we're talking about different things. The TURNOVER per race which is the only thing you can measure objectively unless you work for BF has if anything gone up in the last 6 years.

salmon, you usually have something of value to say and I have noticed you have now said a couple of times on different threads that you don't think liquidity has gone down on here over the years

you seem to be a lone voice in this regard, could you expand on how you have come to this conclusion?

Yes, wee eck. One hit from an arbing book and the price decimates..

10 years ago there was liquidity on most decent races throughout he day, now there are pennies available to back and lay

have to wait for the last 15 mins really before money starts flowing

feck me the 6.50 Ponte has only had £8k matched in total

salmon you are probably right but this exchange by going public must produce the profits it has promised

its new shareholders and they will do all they can to keep the shareholde happy and if that means that

customers get a poorer deal, tough.

@judorick -- is it that liquidity is down or just that now most action is compressed into the last ten minutes before the off (mirroring the oncourse market)?

I'm not sure exactly what people mean by liquidity tbh.
My subjective view is 1) There IS less money taken early. 2) The actual TURNOVER per race is a bit higher than 6 years ago.

maybe so ramruma

salmon compared to 6 years ago my living expenses have nearly double.

Re. liquidity information provided by frog2 on a General Betting forum post.


It will get worse and worse as more people drop out because of the Premium Charge. Did a check on the 2nd Sunday in May figures for pre-race horses (average per race). Not very scientific because its only one day in the year but the figures are horrific for Betfair (and its loyal customers).....

Average matched pre-race matched per race in the win market:

year    average per race
2005    £270,744
2006    £405,795
2007    £393,684
2008    £433,737
2009    £493,044
2010    £423,090
2011    £436,760
2012    £413,471
2013    £402,897

Less matched now than in 2006. Basically no growth in 6 years while the amount bet online has gone through the roof. 18% decline since 2009 when people first started to feel the pinch of PC1.

Surely Betfair management must realise they have a serious problem.

shareholders not happy with the small profit margins and want to screw the punters for more and more (?)   another own goal if they increased comm charges, surely a lot will just go to the other site, first they screw winning customers for more money via the PC, and must now be looking for other revenue streams so up the comm charges, it would be just greed and create a lot of bad will.

Yes but wages haven't wee eck and a lot of people are worse off. Moreover the compulsive gamblers now have more options compared to 2007. I presume FOBTs were around then but I don't remember them being discussed on here ( Mind you AD wasn't posting ).

what happened in 2007?

@hounddog -- the danger with increased commission charges is not that punters go purple, it is that they go back to the betting shops. Layers going purple is a danger though.

I joined swift-tuttle so I can only comment from then.       

they don't have much option, apart from charges,

they've tried new territories and to date had limited success, they have tried new product streams but the turnover is low by comparison

more recently they have hit costs, started laying people off and are looking to reduce spend, all the bad signs are there

if you gain market saturation (which they pretty much did unless they convert non punters to betting) then you are bound to plateau, now they have the millstone of the shareprice to maintain there is only one way this is all going

if Betfair went back into private hands, surely the first move would be to ditch the sportsbook and fixed odds betting?

As mentioned earlier, these products only developed to "expand" the company.... the problem being of course that Betfair are not a bookmaker and are trying to compete in a market they don't understand or are not willing to bear the market risk (as much as big five bookmaking is considered a "risk" these days).

Shame that Betfair didn't focus on their core product / point of difference and unable to break into overseas markets.

differentiation was the key to success

in the beginning, if you were a serious horse player, you were a mug if you did not switch to betfair and I persuaded lots to come on here for better prices and ease of getting on without restriction, turnover enough get the reduced commission rates and sweet

all bases covered, getting on without restriction, better prices, put up some sub 1.1 in running lays for when you get beaten, lovely jubbly

can't make those recommendations now

best scenario for us all is for there to be competition and alternatives, it isn't ever going back to where it was a few years ago that's for sure

those in at the beginning made a killing (bf owners & punters) but if there isn't a variety of betting options going forward then we will all be screwed until this place winds itself into the ground

elise     21 May 13 13:14 
they don't have much option, apart from charges,

they've tried new territories and to date had limited success, they have tried new product streams but the turnover is low by comparison

more recently they have hit costs, started laying people off and are looking to reduce spend, all the bad signs are there

if you gain market saturation (which they pretty much did unless they convert non punters to betting) then you are bound to plateau, now they have the millstone of the shareprice to maintain there is only one way this is all going

elise - absolutely spot on - no more need be said .........

for mainstream events you can get the same odds at the other one 3%, not only are you better off financially you are reducing BF turnover which is going to make them think twice about taking you for granted anymore, its a win win

usa might help if it breaks open, but if it does then other exchanges need to be in there too whether that be new ones or resurrected usa/caribb ones, not just bf

Further to my earlier post,what if Betfair  reduced commision for all bets made before 10.00am on horse racing and 24hours before football matches.Would this encourage more activity in advance of events or is this too complicated to introduce?

serious non-insider punters don't want to back early these days whatever the commission

have betfair factored in that pp is about to allow their customers to challenge a backers placed wager(lay).

Yes i can see PP giving the layers a chance alright,you will be able to lay even money shots at 6/4. What a load of shitt that is.

they have already allowed valued customers to start the ball rolling,sonny boy

Toeknee,please stop talking rubbish.

check bet-dash for real money.

Another smiley face man,sorry i didnt realise.

That smiley face is for one foot in the door,but look what is coming