I'd of thought it shouldn't go unbacked
If they concentrated on 10f and maybe even had a go at 12f then they have a very good horse on the hands.
I personally think Toronado will show himself to be very decent once not having to try to make a race of it with Dawn Approach any more, I don't think Van Der Neer's 2000gns run was a fluke and Sky Latern and Just The Judge looked decent in the 1000gns and we might well see a few of the other classic generation come on with a bit more time and maturity under their belts too.
fav will drift tomorrow and I expect BP to come in markedly , if not I will be in the s hit
theirrrrrrr OFF
good luck tho one and all
At 3.4 i'm happy for him to carry a few bob of my hard earned
dangers look like Cityscape who's a high class animal on his day and Beauty Parlour if Cecils worked his magic an got her back to her best
I think it's a bit too soon to be writing off the fav (DOW) even putting supposed Coolmore hype to one side
how do you suppose to put the hype to one side, the price is a pure reflection of the hype itself nothing else
speculative punt on Fencing now Beauty Parlour is a non runner.
Plonker never gets it right, do the opposite!
#bringbackzarooni
I just think Ibrahima Sonko that Toronado paid the price for taking on Dawn Approach in the 2000gns a bit like Excelebration did in the Queen Anne with Frankel. Had connections raced just for 2nd rather than win then I think they would have got that.
and where's that hippie clown????
Mine was a non-runner if you didn't notice. 80/1 second. What did he beat?
We need more like you on Betfair.
18 May 13 14:24
Joined: 27 Sep 10 | Topic/replies: 419 | Blogger: moneyforoldrope's blog
Simon is putting u away!!!
Plonker never gets it right, do the opposite!
He knew the score!
I knew Farhh was very good but still think he's better at 10f but after that performance they will probably be tempted to keep him at a mile as so far the current lot don't look anything special unless something from the classic generation emerges.
Still, sometimes you have to pay to see if your judgement is right and whilst it obviously was with hindsight regarding the horse not being up to winning a Gr1 mile against previous rivals, this time he didn't have any very good or exceptional ones to beat but I still didn't think he had shown he was up to it at a mile, so I was wrong on that anyway but you can't win them all. :)
Which ever way you dress it up, weak placed horses etc.
put your selection up before the race and act well in defeat.
Wind the clock back:
Morons: "So You Think is overhyped because all it really beat was a handicapper".
Morons: "Just goes to show how good Frankel really was, because that Farhh is a proven exceptional horse"....
The facts remain, So You Think was minimum 3-4 lengths worse off under O'Brien, and the 10F race Frankel raced against Farhh he had the better going which easily gained him 1-2 lengths down the straight.
All it really shows, is just how dire the competition is in the UK at the moment with your milers, as they are really a pathetic bunch of animals. Easybeats.
Are we forgetting that Carlton House also beat Farhh? And while it can be argued that Farhh all things being fair should have come second, it wouldn't have been by much. Since come out and beaten 2L, 6.5L, 4.75L and 5L 13/18 in Australia, in a Group 2 Handicap race.
So while it is ok for most of you to sit there and say how average SYT was as a horse, the reality is he had lengths on Farhh, at his worst, which puts Frankel by direct comparison a mere 2-3 lengths better than a "plodder" which is the most common word used to describe him on this forum.
Farhh had the form to win that race, and win it easily. Because there really is very little to beat in the UK.
The favourite, Declaration Of War, had form of:
1st 6k 2yo,
1st 12k 2yo,
4/8 beaten 4 lengths, 33k G3,
1st 10k pound race,
1st 1/2L G3 31k,
1st 21k pound race.
6 races, for 5 wins, and it is 15-20 lengths off the best in the country, and nearly undefeated. And the worst thing about all of this, is there are still probably no bells ringing for any of you....
There's a classic winner in the line up.
9/2 is plenty short enough.
Yes this was incorrect Hippy. You only mentioned what Farhh had won and not even touched on his Official Racing, it was a bit naive but i actually thought you was fishing.
What had he won besides handicaps? Was there a classic winner in the line up (some would argue a dual classic had she been given a better ride in the Diane)?
When you wrote off Indian Chief's chances in the Dante it was because the private handicapper TS gave him a rating of 59 (
). Now you're quoting Official Ratings (how do you explain the running of Cityscape and Sovereign Debt on official ratings btw?). Do you ever have original thought or is your opinion based solely on someone else's number crunching. I notice the three people that are more interested in dwelling on my assessment of the race (which came down to my belief that I had found value in a classic winner priced at 8/1) contributed nothing to the debate besides snide comments. Did you actually back the horse or is this what constitutes your enjoyment of the sport?
Another reason why I thought 9/2 was plenty short enough:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HdcOkZANgs
Moonlight Cloud was the sprinter I mentioned.
Yes and both ratings where accurate to asses the chances in that race you berk.
1) Indian Chief failed as was predicted BY TS figures.
2) Farhh was top rated and won.
No idea how you are trying to argue your case with facts that prove the ratings to be a correct factor.
You need to understand the form Hippie, the ratings are there but reading between the lines is also vital. This way you can shine a light on a horses ability.
Farhh's rating was based on his proximity to Frankel. Had Excelebration contested those races, or Cityscape even, he would not have achieved those ratings.
I'm not arguing my case because nothing I said was incorrect. I saying to you show me what I said was incorrect.
How much did you win on Farrh because you seem to be bitter whatever the sum was?
Was Farhh value at 9/2 ?? of course it was and you said NO!! - i will let you calculate what was incorrect in your view because you won`t accept off anyone else.
Have a nice day pal.
Personally I thought it was a 2 horse race between the favourite and Farhh and bet accordingly. My thoughts were that the favourite must have been working with Camelot at home to be that price. If that is correct then watch Camelot in the POW.
I also think the bookies were quite happy to shorten AOB's and lengthen Farhh because it put many more off than if they had priced him at his real price. I was sucked in as well.
Add to that just about everything that could have gone wrong for Farhh in that race did, with missing the break and then getting no run on the rail and having to sit and suffer despite swinging away on the bridle with his jockey unable to do anything on him at just about the time that SYT's jockey kicked for home and yet there was still only 2¾L between them at the line.
Oh and besides, have you never heard of horses improving with age and experience?
May 20, 2013 -- 1:10AM, ima_mazed66 wrote:
I don't think BJT that there were too many saying SYT was average, (that's probably a figment of your imagination) but just that he was no superstar and he wasn't, yet he still only beat a plodder in Carlton House narrowly despite being all out to do so and Farhh was only a mile winner of a handicap when trying 10f for the first time in the PoW and only having had 3 runs despite being a 4YO when taking on a battled hardened and older SYT having its 23rd race.Add to that just about everything that could have gone wrong for Farhh in that race did, with missing the break and then getting no run on the rail and having to sit and suffer despite swinging away on the bridle with his jockey unable to do anything on him at just about the time that SYT's jockey kicked for home and yet there was still only 2¾L between them at the line. Oh and besides, have you never heard of horses improving with age and experience?
Were plenty saying it.
In regards to "Oh and besides, have you never heard of horses improving with age and experience?", of course I have. But then, I also understand that horses can also deteriorate with age. I also understand that training horses differently can also decrease their performance as does riding tactics.
SYT was minimum 3-4 lengths worse off under O'Brien after his first couple of runs but that is neither here nor there.
In regards to Farhh. He was drawn the carpark in that race. You can claim he lost valuable ground at the start all you like, but the reality is he missed the kick by 1 length, and used it to get straight onto the fence, rather than having to race wide. He would have been much worse off if he jumped with them as he would have had to cover a lot of extra ground.
In the straight, he didn't go around one horse. He was tightened for room up the straight, and when he got through he gave a little burst, but really wasn't taking any ground off the winner after his burst ended. On no race ever would he have won that race. Second yes, but definitely wasn't a winning chance.
Carlton House is a bit of a one paced horse, and the race was paced to suit. He is a 10-12F horse and was always going to stay on, but never a threat.
Run that race at 10 different paces and Farhh was never getting closer than 2 lengths away.
In regards to Farhh vs Frankel at 10F, Frankel had the run of the race, and ran on the best ground. Final turn, every horse heading straight for the outside fence, but they stopped near the middle where Farhh had to run past horses to get across. Meanwhile, Frankel had the seas parted for him and it wasn't until he went passed that Farhh was able to get across into the better going. Frankel had a very nice kick to get lengths in front, but then plodded to the finish line as he did every time. He wasn't pulling away any further, and Farhh lost easy 2 lengths having to run down the middle.
Frankel was around 4-5 lengths superior to Farhh on ability, over 10F.
So You Think was 2-3 lengths superior, under O'Brien over 10F after a campaign that saw him race in 5 countries in 6 months and 3 different surfaces.
And you really want to bring in Farhh being in his 4th start vs a battle hardened So You Think?
Righto.
So You Think
October: France Turf
October: Ascot Turf
November: USA Dirt
March: UAE Tapeta
May: Ireland Turf
June: Ascot Turf
Travelled across the world and back racing on every different surface going as his lead up to that race. Battle hardened? Poor **** didn't know where he was, what was under him, and still won. If you think a lead up like that makes for a horse running at 100%, then you know nothing about the game. A normal lead up to that race, they wouldn't know which way he went.
So the same way you want me to say I have heard of horses improving, which is obviously true, but not necessarily a reality for Farhh, I wonder if you can agree that horses under different training methods, and getting older can worsen. And I wonder if you can agree that there is no possible way in the world SYT could have been 100% in that race based on his campaign alone.
All that being said, Farhh winning on Saturday doesn't prove Frankels form. It certainly doesn't prove Frankel was the best ever. He wasn't even the best in the world. All it proves, is that horses running 8F in the UK are very ordinary animals. It also proves that there are too many races to choose from, with the favourite winning 5/6 in the lead up and really showing that he has nothing to offer outside of a can of PAL.
One of the worst cases of race reading i've read in a while !
Run of the race ?
Farhh was briefly in front and level with Frankel approaching 1f out. He was simply outclassed
Seas parted ? Frankel was in last place and on near side rail
Plodded ? TQ stopped riding near the finish, he was so far in front
http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/results/22-08-2012/york/result/508809/juddmonte-international-stakes-group-1-british-champions-series/video?token=0aed9fc63c
2ndly it took until SYT's last prep in 2012 for obrien to admit he only just worked out how to train and race the horse and was unbeaten in he's last prep.
as for farhh, im glad you said he was in experianced, how close would he now get to frankel seeing you claim he has improved out of sight with a season under he's belt and more experiance.
and to say SYT only beat him by 2 3/4 lens is laughable
what did frankel beat the average crop of 3 yr olds?...thats right mostly 4 lens thats only 1 1/4 short of 2 3/4 lens pffft !and you look for excuses about he's defeat, go look at midnight clouds 4th to excelebration and again tell me she was beaten fair and square. as usual you are a hypocrite im amug.
exactly what ive been saying since frankels 3 yr old years he comes from a average crop and that made him look even better. thank you im amug for confirming it finally
May 20, 2013 -- 6:19AM, Andrew in Sweden wrote:
Frankel had the run of the race, and ran on the best ground. Final turn, every horse heading straight for the outside fence, but they stopped near the middle where Farhh had to run past horses to get across. Meanwhile, Frankel had the seas parted for him and it wasn't until he went passed that Farhh was able to get across into the better going. Frankel had a very nice kick to get lengths in front, but then plodded to the finish line as he did every time. One of the worst cases of race reading i've read in a while !Run of the race ? Farhh was briefly in front and level with Frankel approaching 1f out. He was simply outclassedSeas parted ? Frankel was in last place and on near side railPlodded ? TQ stopped riding near the finish, he was so far in fronthttp://www.sportinglife.com/racing/results/22-08-2012/york/result/508809/juddmonte-international-stakes-group-1-british-champions-series/video?token=0aed9fc63c
What?
There was 2 races going on. There were 3 in front going way too fast. Then there was the field that were actually trying to win the race.
Saint Nicholas Abbey led, Farhh a length back on his outside, Sri Putra on the inside behind the "leader" SNA, with Frankel the gun run 1 out and 1 back. Out of traffic just off the speed.
There were then another 2 horses behind Frankel, so not sure how he was in last place, but whatever.
Around the final turn, and the WHOLE FIELD goes at 45 degrees to go to the outside rail where the best running was. Or did they all lose sight of where the fence is?
As they straighten up, Farhh is middle of the pack with only 2 horses on the inside. Has Bullet Train coming back on his outside, SNA on his outside, and a gap of around 10 metres further to the outside fence where the real competitors are trying to get to. Frankel is stalking SNA with 10 metres in the good going to get past when he wishes.
They get to the 3F and they are all in a line across the track. From the outside, Frankel, SNA, and then another 4 horses in between SNA and Farhh, with only 2 on the inside. Around a length covers the field.
Farhh gets past some horses and angles straight to the outside fence now that he finally has room to get across. Frankel running in a straight line in the best going.
Frankel around 3 lengths in front with a furlong to go. Pushed out to around 30 metres left. Final margin 7 lengths.
Have you watched the race?
Tell me on what planet coming off that last turn, that the better going wasn't on the outside fence. And also how being 1 out 1 back in a race isn't the run of the race, especially given that the field would be chasing the outside fence.
Kidding yourself.
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/MyPhotoBucketPiccies/media/frankelPosition_zpsb0e0aa26.png.html?sort=3&o=2
Frankel in the 1/1, clearly not last. Run of the race? Not sure, where is everybody going?
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/MyPhotoBucketPiccies/media/frankelHomeTurn_zpsc9c28716.png.html?sort=3&o=0
Home turn, seems they all lost where the fence was? Looks to me like they are all heading straight to the outside fence. Hmmm. Curious.
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/MyPhotoBucketPiccies/media/frankel3furlong_zps2667a2af.png.html?sort=3&o=1
2 furlongs later, we see Frankel with enough room to fit 4 horses on the better going, and we see Farhh just getting in front of those that were in its way of getting to the outside.
http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/MyPhotoBucketPiccies/media/frankelLastFurlong_zps8f18221f.png.html?sort=3&o=3
Wind ahead another 2 furlongs, we see the finishing order with the 3 place getters on the outside fence. We see Farhh has finally got across as to how far SNA on the inside allowed him to get.
Watch the video, there are two behind Frankel just before the bend, but when they cut across to the near side rail, Frankel is in LAST position moving towards the rail, the other two moving out. Several horses (including SNA) were far enough in front of Frankel in the early part of the straight to come to the rail but didn't. In the 4 races that took place around that final bend during the day, they all came down the centre or near rail. If the field had raced on the far rail with Frankel on the centre or near rail, I could have agreed with part of your post, but to suggest Frankel had a going advantage is absolutely ludicrous. It's plainly obvious to all he was a class apart (as most often was the case).
Yes, Frankel got back to last, for about 30 metres. He wasn't last in the run, he was running 1 out 1 back if you disregard the obvious jokers seeing who could kill their horse first.
They aren't carefully chosen at all to prove a point. They are showing you what I am talking about.
Several horses (including SNA) were far enough in front of Frankel in the early part of the straight to come to the rail but didn't.
Yes, as I said, the seas parted. Who were the other ones? There was only 3 horses worth even being in the race. 1 of them an overrated horse SNA, 1 of them Farhh, and one of them Frankel.
EVERY ONE OF THEM RACED DOWN THE OUTSIDE FENCE. SNA didn't go there until Frankel had gone past, Farhh was trying for 2 furlongs to get there but had 5-6 horses on its inside. As soon as it had any clear run at all, it was angled towards the outside fence.
Yes, Frankel should have won that race. But don't tell me he didn't have the run of the race, and don't tell me the best going wasn't on the outside fence. If it was their goal to run down the centre, they would have. But they didn't. They chose to let Frankel go through and then get on the fence themselves. Farhh, had no choice but to ride down the centre til he got enough room to angle him to the fence which he did as soon as possible.
Frankel was pushed along until around 30 metres left in the race. Yes, he was far in front and stopped riding him then, but he was going up and down in the one spot when he did. Farhh, lost a good 2 lengths trying to get to the outside fence.
If you are going to show a link to a video, at least make sure you watch it first rather than just rely on what is written in the newspapers....
When Frankel "is in last", there is 2 horses about to die, being Robin Hood and Windsor Palace, with Bullet Train already falling back. If you take out the 3 horses that were there to take punters money by setting a ridiculous pace, there is about 1 length between first and last.
Yes, he was last. But he was also ONLY 1 LENGTH OFF THE SPEED.
I know it sounds good to you "he come from last to win", but get a clue mate.
which makes me believe if they banned pacemakers he wouldnt be unbeaten.
No pacemakers, and on a race track, and you can be sure he would have been beaten.
Until she was faced by horses linked through the form line a stone inferior to Frankel. Ironic really.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7UFZpAEk_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dph7mObez2g
