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the usual arguments put forward but it doesnt wash with me.ive been going racing for years on my days off.(bookmaking weekends and nights).the reasons i dont go so much now are nothing to do with ew terms etc. if id gone to ponty midweek it would have cost £25 car,£15 entrance,£5 a couple of coffes,£5 a sandwich.TOTAL £50.add in the terrible weather and its a no from me.society is changing and our target audience is changing.i bet at rasen on the big race yesterday.had a choice of putting them up at 1/4 1234 and 2% a runner or a more competitive win price and a 1/5 1234.todays punters in my opinion prefer the second option.not one of them mentioned the ew terms.was 16 the winner,returned 14.EVERYONE HAPPY.im a gold flag bookmaker so would never bet 1/6 etc.were in a recession and in my opinion midweek racing is going to struggle(it should be a £10 max)and will get worse as people spend there money on other things.its up to the racecourses to look after there future.wetherby family day today.£15 to get in.should be £10 for 2 adults with children free.THEY MIGHT COME BACK.
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good points Regit. Respect you're gold flag bookie. I'm seeking to make the modified gold flag the accepted minimum. If you start from that point, you can adjust your win book appropriately I'm sure. and the customers will be satisfied and know what they will receive.
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your bang on regit ...Im a member at huntingdon they sent me a letter informing me of the additional meeting,but most importantly there charging today .....................a fiver to get in they put the n.h. flat in the middle and end with a good race
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just a quick one on money leaving the ring.im probably the sort of bookmaker that geoff banks hates.if someone had an even £1000 with me id first check to see if it was 11/10 in the ring(im probably glooking to have 3-400 back)and if it wasnt id have it on the exchange.then id try to bet up to it.if an office came late id probably have £900 back.i dont have opinions and just spin it to try and get some % in the book.pre exchanges i dont remember books like mr banks spreading money round the ring.i suspect that due to his father he was able to swallow large bets and used books like me to increase his %.(if im doing him a dis-service i appologise.)
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can I find mr.banks article on-line regit
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It's agood article imo,i would happily go along with everything,unfortunately it's todays punters who are the problem,they continue to bet with Hazell,Wilson etc and don't care about the e.w odds and you constantly get murdered by these guys.
On a different note only 14 on the rails at Donny last night (presumably they had come out to celebrate Donny's promotion) and cracking results all over the north yesterday,lol.Are you going today Regit? |
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The money leaving the ring is the biggest reason for the situation we all now find ourselves in,any other businessmen wouldn't believe you!
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Well I,m a punter REGIT and I can assure you I,m not "HAPPY" when I see yellow flag hoisters like yourself going 1/5 the odds in 16 to 22 runner handicaps! Maybe the reason you got "no complaints" was that no self respecting regular punter bets with your ew terms.
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without getting into a row ....and you've proved it ya self ,95% of the ring are looking after the selfs ....if a man has a bogey for more than he cares to stand one for and for example hes laid 5-2 and its 3.65 hes only going one way isn't he in fact at 3.60 hes only going one way ......................the last thing on there mind is giving up money for the sake and long term prospect of the ring .....its a natuarall thing to do
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my view is this ........if the shops terms are a 1-4 odds 1234......then a on-course book should be the same if not .....he bets win only ....................................sorry regit but to me youre and the rest are bringing the game in to disrepute
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regit you go round the offices tucking em up then you wanna bet a 1-5th on course .....youre not exactly straight down the middle when ya having a go at hazel and jw .....the difference between you and them 2 is they've taken oit to a different extreme ......same values but just a different level
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Of course he is,but if we kept the money in the ring he wouldn't need to for obvious reasons but as you say it's going over old ground.
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its ok to go a 1-5th .....but a 1-6th oh no ..........youre moving the goal posts on the issue off .....principals
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It was me who mentioned them cashless.
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ribero the bottom line is .....its never going to change
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sorry regit mixed up again ...hold me hands up
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ya see joe I don't pick on you all the time
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when you get nearer 60 u become more off an embarrassment to ya self
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No worries,a riveting day at Wetherby beckons,at east it's not far.Adge must stil be out celebrating.
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least.
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I wouldn't be surprised if at least one racecourse uses it's contractual agreement with bookmakers to enforce ew betting to standard or gold flag ew terms or they have to bet win only.
If any individual layer then chooses to take them to court under a restriction of trade ruling then they may well say 'go ahead then' Could be a good game of 'call my bluff' |
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i dont really see that my arbing has a lot to do with it.betting shops only survive today cos of bandits and its just a game to me.my job is to get on and if i get knocked back SO BE IT.plus its ok the shops advertising but billys for example restricted woods at 6 for the masters to £30ew.back to the 1/4 odds .i put them in the machine to bet 1/4 but i would have had to have 144% to bet to 100% place.although i didnt have any complaints one punter asked if id lay him 1/4 and i said id lay s.p. at 1/4 1234.he smiled had his £25 ew at 12 and told me it was 10 in btfrd.so he took 12/5 a 5/2 shot place but he still had the value.theres no answer to this,if we had to vote for everyone to bet the same id vote standard but people have short memories and so many books bet win only before the change that it certainly didnt suit your average punter.off to wetherby HAVE A GOOD DAY EVERYONE.
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intheknow,all racecourses could and should be enforcing tattersals recommended ew terms
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mmm - absolutely agree 100%, but I would reluctantly support the 1/5 1234 if it got rid of all the bad apples that can't wait to get their 1/6 odds etc signs out of the bag
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Geoff B had a very good start over most of us
very vociferous over rights and wrongs of the ring in my opinion all in his own interest (which of course is only human nature) |
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Good read,but no mention made of the increasing amount of concessions,and offers,made by the online bookmakers.Many racegoers will place their bets online rather than use the ring.Yes,I am aware of the many restrictions,but these invariably don't apply to the casual racegoer,who between them amount to a large amount of turnover.
For example,yesterday's offer of money back(free bet) if 2nd to a horse in any Ch4 race.Money back(free bet) if 2nd. to a winner over a certain price.Just a couple of examples of the numerous offers always available. |
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Patsyone, you're right i did have a good start. But I don't understand your point about rights and wrongs. If you think i received some vast handmedown and that i'm playing at being a bookie - you're a fool. When you train under the great John Banks, and you follow his lead on customer values, you're bound to succeed. Many of the arguments above totally ignore the views of customers - and their disatisfaction with the ring.
So yes I will continue to fight against the boo boys and nay sayers and yes dinosaurs who say we can't change, and exchanges say we must do this or that. Get with the tracks as the new NJPC, eveyone offer the same place as a start point, customers happy and clear, and we move forward. Or die as you're bent now. Or was it so busy at Wetherby or Doncaster today that you still can't see my point. Best of luck lads Geoff |
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to be fair it also takes split second to hedge whereas you may go to hedge elsewhere and find it now less than the 5/2 youve laid and therefore less on the machine , in reality you can not only take a worse price but waste time in doing so, most firms only work two handed these days so jumping down to feck about hedging isnt great.
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i will just add, when the e/w terms are poor i bet win only ,if anyone really thinks that by sticking to standard e.w terms the courses will fill up with punters who have gone missing cos of the e.w terms then they are totaly deluded.95% of punters dont care/understand 1/4 1/5th odds they justhave small fun bets.the truth is anyone betting for big stakes generally bet horses at the front of the market and invariably these naGS ARE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AS EXCHANGES BUT COM FREE.ANYONE LOOKING TO BACK A SHORTIE IS is certain to get at least the same price as the exchanges (often bigger and no com) but they still choose to stay away.
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BET next to 2 1/6 odds and 1/5 odds in the 7 runner race merchants.they murdered me.the sunday crowd couldnt have cared less.look at the board.take the biggest price.collect what the place says on the ticket.if we,d all bet 1/5 and 1/4 we would all have bet better,but im getting a headache from banging my head against a brick wall.business better than expected today.
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the death knell of racing started when the premier league started being televised on sky
loads of potential racing punters attracated away to the football betting opportunities that coupled with the emergence of atr and ruk transmitting every race into peoples homes weekends are just a beer fest for the stag do and hen party crowds who wouldn't care if there were no books in attendance as they then wouldn't have to leave the bar to put tere fiver or tenner on. most of the decent racing takes place on a weekend and the average race goer is not going to pay £15plus to watch moderate fare that they can watch for nothing at home. a lot of books plying their trade in the winter months must be wondering wether it is worth going out next year with the continuing rise in expenses and the recession and benefit cuts taking more disposable income out of people pockets |
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it goes up every year ...agt for instance next 3 yeas itll go up a fiver because they want a rise wheres it come from .....the books 120 days racing a year here find another 600 quid one of ya tracks puts the gate up 2 quid ...16 meetings another 200 quid and its going to happen every year
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You must be fumin bookies .
Years ago you never had it so good - During the 70s -80s and 90s it was like finding money in the street . People like John Banks stating his shops were " money factories " , and they were . Great times  |
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fair play to geof banks coming on here and responding {if it really is you} though i wish u wouldn't portray yourself as a gentleman/or whiter than white cos about 18mnths ago we had verbal agreement on the phone for a pitch of yours a deal struck at £30k only for 3 0r 4 days later you called me to tell me you have now sold it to somone else !from where i come from a mans word is his bond and your word aint worth **it !
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^^^^^A story i know to be true^^^^^
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As a fairly regular racegoer I find the lack of "atmosphere" in the betting ring ( at smaller meetings ) reduces the enjoyment of the day. with virtually all bookmakers showing the same odds, I suppose there isn't much point in shouting out 13/8 the field when everyone around has the same price. Quite amazing to see some bookies accepting £1 minimum.
As others have said, why come racing when you get better terms at home- often with prices guaranteed. |
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at Doncaster on Saturday I was asked for both 50p win and 50p each way.
and a better one , at wetherby yesterday asked for 94p each way. I think racegoing punters go racing to get BETTER odds than those who stay at home , scrabbler |
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question for on-course books??? if you had to list your 3 main (gripes-greiviencies-niggles) what would they be
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In my opinion, the on course betting game, is in terminal decline. There is a generation of racegoers, who, when they are no longer with us, will not be replaced. The younger generation have little interest in horse racing and those that do, (you can bet your bottom dollar), are exchange players. I started working on the racecourse in 1979 and it certainly was very workable, (how i wish i was working on the racecourse, in those halcyon days of the 1950s / 1960s). Then in 2000 / 2001 came Betfair and BETD*Q and the slow death of the betting rings was set in motion!
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