Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
25 Apr 13
23:14
Joined:
Date Joined:
05 Jan 10
Thursday 25 April 2013
By Geoffrey Riddle http://www.racinguk.com
Simon Crisford was fighting to deflect the criticism surrounding his handling of Mahmood Al Zarooni's on Thursday night as he prepared to leave Britain for Dubai for summit talks with Sheikh Mohammed.
Al Zarooni was warned off for eight years after a four-hour hearing at the British Horseracing Authority headquarters in London.
All 15 of the horses in question were banned from competitive racing for six months, and will not be allowed to grace a racecourse until October 9.
Crisford, whose role is similar to that of a chief executive of a multi-national company, was a key figure in recommending the disgraced former trainer to Sheikh Mohammed, advice that with the advantage of hindsight, and in the wake of the largest drugs scandal to hit Britain in recent times, now looks deeply flawed.
“I have not considered tendering my resignation,” Godolphin’s racing manager said.
“It is very important to get the balance right here. A trainer is a licenced operator to the BHA. It is his responsibility to take due care of his horses in his stables.
“I represent the owner’s best interests. Of course one of my responsibilities is to oversee the trainers in Godolphin but I cannot be involved in a day-to-day business about what kind of medication these trainers are using.
“I recommended the appointment of Mahmood and today that has proved to be very poor judgement.”
Al Zarooni’s fall from grace has been almost as spectacular as his rise to prominence. He made his name working with tricky Arabian horses with Rod Simpson and spent a decade with Ali Rashid Al Raihe, the former UAE champion trainer.
After spells with Mubarak Bin Shafya, who was subsequently involved in his own drugs scandal with endurance horses, Al Zarooni was personally handed a trainer’s licence by Sheikh Mohammed in 2010.
Al Zarooni’s experience therefore was gained almost entirely in the Emirates, where the use of anabolic steroids is legal in pre-training as long as traces are no longer present on race day.
A conversation between Crisford and Al Zarooni about the use of anabolic steroids in Britain never took place, and an excuse based on that premise cut little ice with Crisford.
“I do not believe that he did not know the rules,” Crisford added.
“You don’t have to be a racehorses trainer in this country to know that anabolic steroids are outlawed. Everyone knows that.
“I don’t have any sympathy with Mister Al Zarooni.”
Al Zarooni admitted his culpability in the statement that Crisford read out following the hearing.
“I accept that it was my responsibility to be aware of the rules regarding the use of prohibited substances in Britain,” Al Zarooni said in a statement, read by Godolphin racing manager Simon Crisford.
“I can only apologise and repeat my statement earlier in the week, ‘I have made a catastrophic error’.”
By Geoffrey Riddle http://www.racinguk.com
Simon Crisford was fighting to deflect the criticism surrounding his handling of Mahmood Al Zarooni's on Thursday night as he prepared to leave Britain for Dubai for summit talks with Sheikh Mohammed.
Al Zarooni was warned off for eight years after a four-hour hearing at the British Horseracing Authority headquarters in London.
All 15 of the horses in question were banned from competitive racing for six months, and will not be allowed to grace a racecourse until October 9.
Crisford, whose role is similar to that of a chief executive of a multi-national company, was a key figure in recommending the disgraced former trainer to Sheikh Mohammed, advice that with the advantage of hindsight, and in the wake of the largest drugs scandal to hit Britain in recent times, now looks deeply flawed.
“I have not considered tendering my resignation,” Godolphin’s racing manager said.
“It is very important to get the balance right here. A trainer is a licenced operator to the BHA. It is his responsibility to take due care of his horses in his stables.
“I represent the owner’s best interests. Of course one of my responsibilities is to oversee the trainers in Godolphin but I cannot be involved in a day-to-day business about what kind of medication these trainers are using.
“I recommended the appointment of Mahmood and today that has proved to be very poor judgement.”
Al Zarooni’s fall from grace has been almost as spectacular as his rise to prominence. He made his name working with tricky Arabian horses with Rod Simpson and spent a decade with Ali Rashid Al Raihe, the former UAE champion trainer.
After spells with Mubarak Bin Shafya, who was subsequently involved in his own drugs scandal with endurance horses, Al Zarooni was personally handed a trainer’s licence by Sheikh Mohammed in 2010.
Al Zarooni’s experience therefore was gained almost entirely in the Emirates, where the use of anabolic steroids is legal in pre-training as long as traces are no longer present on race day.
A conversation between Crisford and Al Zarooni about the use of anabolic steroids in Britain never took place, and an excuse based on that premise cut little ice with Crisford.
“I do not believe that he did not know the rules,” Crisford added.
“You don’t have to be a racehorses trainer in this country to know that anabolic steroids are outlawed. Everyone knows that.
“I don’t have any sympathy with Mister Al Zarooni.”
Al Zarooni admitted his culpability in the statement that Crisford read out following the hearing.
“I accept that it was my responsibility to be aware of the rules regarding the use of prohibited substances in Britain,” Al Zarooni said in a statement, read by Godolphin racing manager Simon Crisford.
“I can only apologise and repeat my statement earlier in the week, ‘I have made a catastrophic error’.”
Show More
I thought the same Roo. Moody openly defended the use of steroids and told Mark Johnson he was 200 years behind the times not using them. Or words to that effect. Apparently Black Caviar was a huge beast of a mare, what does that tell you?
duevuchelle,
unlike ben johnson he's connected, just like carl lewis was.
unlike ben johnson he's connected, just like carl lewis was.
brigust1 26 Apr 13 13:15
I thought the same Roo. Moody openly defended the use of steroids and told Mark Johnson he was 200 years behind the times not using them. Or words to that effect. Apparently Black Caviar was a huge beast of a mare, what does that tell you?
er - that she was a huge beast of a mare ?
I thought the same Roo. Moody openly defended the use of steroids and told Mark Johnson he was 200 years behind the times not using them. Or words to that effect. Apparently Black Caviar was a huge beast of a mare, what does that tell you?
er - that she was a huge beast of a mare ?
The 5 godolphin horses that won the Dubai World Cup in the last week of March never raced again earlier than mid-June.
In light of the suspicion on the string now who's to say they weren't running on steroids in Dubai?
Anyone got any statistics on drug tests carried out on godolphin horses in Dubai?
In light of the suspicion on the string now who's to say they weren't running on steroids in Dubai?
Anyone got any statistics on drug tests carried out on godolphin horses in Dubai?
true enough carrot but I thought the sacrificial lamb would have been burned toast rather than warmed up bread.
Zarooni says he didn't know he couldn't use steroids in the UK.
Is he saying that he regularly administered steroids to his horses when he trained in Dubai? Or that he saw them being used by trainers to which he was assistant there?
Presumably he would have taken the trainer's courses at Newmarket? Is he suggesting that they didn't cover the subject of drugs, medication and the use of?
Zarooni nothing more than a patsy.
Is he saying that he regularly administered steroids to his horses when he trained in Dubai? Or that he saw them being used by trainers to which he was assistant there?
Presumably he would have taken the trainer's courses at Newmarket? Is he suggesting that they didn't cover the subject of drugs, medication and the use of?
Zarooni nothing more than a patsy.
Ch4 on about it now...Lets hear what Pinnochio ..Sorry.... Crisford... has to say
you honestly believe the main godolphin people didnt know anything about this. Just that in the winter racing in Dubai there horses look nearly twice as big as everyone elses. Wonder why that is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jesus H Christo talking about grassing up to save his skin . . Still in denial...Resign...resign...if your not capable of overlooking the Godolphin stables well then it's not the job for you auld son,.
He is one fcking slimeball. Sheikh Mo has got to give him the boot fast.
Crisford, so-called "racing manager" washing his hands of the whole thing! The man is basically saying it's got nothing to do with me. The most bare-faced liar ever to appear on a racing show.
"A big boy did it and ran away". O.K. Simon, that's fine off you go.
Oh, before you go, what exactly are you being paid for?
The trainer has been well and truly hung out to dry.
Scandalous.
"A big boy did it and ran away". O.K. Simon, that's fine off you go.
Oh, before you go, what exactly are you being paid for?
The trainer has been well and truly hung out to dry.
Scandalous.
anaglogs think trainer being caught over here has stuffed him. It is ob vious looking at there runners on home territory that they believe in running them with the assistance of what hes got done for over here. I fear mass hypocracy in all their statements and dont think there is any danger that all their horses were ( clean) in the Winter racing
fair plat to cunningham and co but what would they be saying if dubai was still the sponser
Joss Sheik Mo got banned, 3 of his trainers got banned even his own son got banned for doping horses in endurance races so no one tell me he hadn't a clue what was going on
Crisford suggested he told Zarooni to smarten up his record keeping on medication given to horses last April.
His trainer is hardly going to enter in a horse's medication record - "anabolic steroid - Certify - Mar, Jun and Sept", is he? Oh, unless of course he knew that they were in fact banned.
Surely the BHA should be asking Zarooni to identify all the horses given banned drugs since he started training - and disqualify them?
His trainer is hardly going to enter in a horse's medication record - "anabolic steroid - Certify - Mar, Jun and Sept", is he? Oh, unless of course he knew that they were in fact banned.
Surely the BHA should be asking Zarooni to identify all the horses given banned drugs since he started training - and disqualify them?
yeah anaglogs i agree that was the point i was trying to ma
If Sheik Mo and Simon Crisford are holier thou art in all of this then why did he keep him on after he got done last year for giving two horses illeagal substances?
If, as they say, MAZ administered the AS's knowing there was going to be a test and without explanation why he administered them then that sounds like he is trying to expose something as opposed to making an obvious error.
the sheikh is as straight as a dye and anyone the slightest bit involved from chrisford to the yard cat will be shown the door
Ohhhh Nicky boy rattled Bittars cage there, he didn't like that question Nick implying people could see it as the case was done on Godolphins terms
Bittar says the 'Asst vet' isn't really a vet at all 
getting a straight answer out of bittar is like pulling teeth
Hard to accuse of C4 of fence sitting on this occasion, some pertinent questions put during the interviews there.
lol Nick Luck wont let it go "And Finaly Paul youuuuuu are in charge of this investigation" 
When Frankie and Fallon got done for drugs it took months and months from the positive test results till they were punished. As AD points out this whole case was done and dusted in 2 days! The sheikh runs British racing and wanted this done and dusted asap to minimise publicity, embarrassment, humiliation factors. He succeeded. I wouldn't like to be the guy who grassed up the stable though.
Have to say well done Cunningham for asking the awkward Qs.
Have to say well done Cunningham for asking the awkward Qs.
So vets assistants and foremen are in the habit of injecting horses with substances but havent a clue what they are injecting. Flu jabs !!!
Al Zarooni doesnt keep records but rattles off the names of four other horses besides the ones found that have been doped, Is that in the hope they dont go back and sample the other 111 horses in the stable.
Al Zarooni doesnt keep records but rattles off the names of four other horses besides the ones found that have been doped, Is that in the hope they dont go back and sample the other 111 horses in the stable.
racing post
"Vet assistants were Indian"
when all else fails play the race card
"Vet assistants were Indian"
when all else fails play the race card
Now we know why they winter in Dubai, sun on their back my *rse needle up the backside more like
they dont winter in dubai ....they summer in england
Nick Luck's interview with Simon Crisford bit.ly/Crisfordint
more to the point wheres all these paddock watchers telling us about beads of sweat,dull eyes etc ,but have never mentioned horses trained by godlphin growing muscels like eastern block shot putters,what about pro jockeys,work riders etc,its nieve in the extreme to think loads of connections didnt no what was going on
so what horses Godolphin osses had the unnatural muscles /performance ?
dont remember any prob slipped em out at the all weather
dont remember any
prob slipped em out at the all weather
How did such an incompetent clueless person ever get a job as racing manager to the multi-mmilion £ Godolphin ?
It shows what a nonsense this racing manager bullsh1t really is. You've got an assistant vet injecting horses with a banned substance and the good old racing manager hasn't got a fcking clue. Give me a break.
It's like the Man Utd team pumped up with steroids and Alex Ferguson going to the United board and saying he hadn't a clue Mike Phelan was giving the team steroids. ffs it's his business to know what each and ever player takes in medication, they would both be sacked.
According to Godolphin Chrisfords role is to ensure the smooth running of the entire Godolphin operation.
It involves regular liaison not only with H.H. Sheikh Mohammed but with Godolphin’s trainers, retained jockeys, work riders, and other senior members of staff.
He watches the horses train every day and, when not at the races, is usually on hand to check on the horses in the afternoons as well. Any problems are discussed with vets and other expert members of the team.
It involves regular liaison not only with H.H. Sheikh Mohammed but with Godolphin’s trainers, retained jockeys, work riders, and other senior members of staff.
He watches the horses train every day and, when not at the races, is usually on hand to check on the horses in the afternoons as well. Any problems are discussed with vets and other expert members of the team.
sis
...and on that basis , I repeat, his position is now untenable.
...and on that basis , I repeat, his position is now untenable.
Crisford 'betrayed' by Al Zarooni
http://www.britishhorseracing.com/goracing/racing/newsweather/newsItem.asp?i=N0079391366989237824A
Godolphin racing manager Simon Crisford "deeply regrets" the part he played in hiring Mahmood Al Zarooni.
Crisford recommended Al Zarooni to Sheikh Mohammed and believes he showed a "remarkable lack of judgement" after the trainer, who won the St Leger with Encke last year, was banned for eight years for administering anabolic steroids to 15 of his horses.
Two of Al Zarooni's horses failed tests for painkillers last April, after which Crisford stressed to him the importance of keeping his medical records up to date.
"I think we have to be very clear about this situation. A trainer is a licensed individual and it is his duty to take professional care of the horses in his stable," Crisford told Channel 4 Racing.
"He runs the day-to-day management, my job is to look after the best interests of the owner. I simply cannot be aware of every single bit of medication that every horse in Godolphin is getting.
"Saeed bin Suroor and Mahmood Al Zarooni are supposed to be professional trainers. One of them clearly wasn't. It's deeply regrettable (that we hired him) and shows a remarkable lack of judgement on my part to recommend him to Sheikh Mohammed, which I did do.
"When his horses failed the tests for painkillers last year, we sat down with him and told him he had to keep his records maintained in a much more efficient manner. I had lengthy conversations with him about that but I'm afraid he's betrayed the trust we put in him and he's let everybody down, not only Godolphin but the British public, too.
"We'll have nothing to do with him again and I have no sympathy for him. It will take a long time to recover from this, but Sheikh Mohammed will make sure everything is done and that the stable is 100% clean before any horses get transferred to any other stables. I haven't considered my position because I've been told to clear this mess up and that's what I'll be doing."
British Horseracing Authority chief executive Paul Bittar stressed the investigation is not yet complete and further charges could be brought against the other individuals that were involved.
He said: "The vet's assistant who has been mentioned is a nebulous term in a way as he's not really a vet at all, he just simply assists, but he's not captured under the rules. The interviews with the foremen are on-going, but because of Al Zarooni having responsibility for the horses, we needed to deal with him first."
http://www.britishhorseracing.com/goracing/racing/newsweather/newsItem.asp?i=N0079391366989237824A
Godolphin racing manager Simon Crisford "deeply regrets" the part he played in hiring Mahmood Al Zarooni.
Crisford recommended Al Zarooni to Sheikh Mohammed and believes he showed a "remarkable lack of judgement" after the trainer, who won the St Leger with Encke last year, was banned for eight years for administering anabolic steroids to 15 of his horses.
Two of Al Zarooni's horses failed tests for painkillers last April, after which Crisford stressed to him the importance of keeping his medical records up to date.
"I think we have to be very clear about this situation. A trainer is a licensed individual and it is his duty to take professional care of the horses in his stable," Crisford told Channel 4 Racing.
"He runs the day-to-day management, my job is to look after the best interests of the owner. I simply cannot be aware of every single bit of medication that every horse in Godolphin is getting.
"Saeed bin Suroor and Mahmood Al Zarooni are supposed to be professional trainers. One of them clearly wasn't. It's deeply regrettable (that we hired him) and shows a remarkable lack of judgement on my part to recommend him to Sheikh Mohammed, which I did do.
"When his horses failed the tests for painkillers last year, we sat down with him and told him he had to keep his records maintained in a much more efficient manner. I had lengthy conversations with him about that but I'm afraid he's betrayed the trust we put in him and he's let everybody down, not only Godolphin but the British public, too.
"We'll have nothing to do with him again and I have no sympathy for him. It will take a long time to recover from this, but Sheikh Mohammed will make sure everything is done and that the stable is 100% clean before any horses get transferred to any other stables. I haven't considered my position because I've been told to clear this mess up and that's what I'll be doing."
British Horseracing Authority chief executive Paul Bittar stressed the investigation is not yet complete and further charges could be brought against the other individuals that were involved.
He said: "The vet's assistant who has been mentioned is a nebulous term in a way as he's not really a vet at all, he just simply assists, but he's not captured under the rules. The interviews with the foremen are on-going, but because of Al Zarooni having responsibility for the horses, we needed to deal with him first."
Caught doping last year , why wasn't SC monitoring him knowing tests were coming at some point ?
Poor management and I think one he clears up the mess the trust in him will be gone and it will he
How can he be trusted again ?
Poor management and I think one he clears up the mess the trust in him will be gone and it will he
How can he be trusted again ?
Crisford........marks out of 100 for credibility? Mind you these silver spoon jobs have no shame, so I wouldn't put it past the low-life to survive this.
very hard to replace immediately , and why shouldn't he face music and clear mess first
I doubt he will be there long tbh
I doubt he will be there long tbh
I don't post much on the Forums, but do read them.
A question I have asked myself is, how easy is it to get Anabolic Steriods and Drugs to inject into Horses ??
If I have asked a daft question I apologise.
A question I have asked myself is, how easy is it to get Anabolic Steriods and Drugs to inject into Horses ??
If I have asked a daft question I apologise.
"I simply cannot be aware of every single bit of medication that every horse in Godolphin is getting".
Simple Simon intimates he can't be there whilst they inject.
"When his (Al Zarooni) horses failed the tests for painkillers last year, we sat down with him and told him he had to keep his records maintained in a much more efficient manner. I had lengthy conversations with him about that".
Simple Simon completely failed in his duty as Racing manager to check Al Zarooni had kept the records, so he made a catastrophic error too!!!!!
Simple Simon intimates he can't be there whilst they inject.
"When his (Al Zarooni) horses failed the tests for painkillers last year, we sat down with him and told him he had to keep his records maintained in a much more efficient manner. I had lengthy conversations with him about that".
Simple Simon completely failed in his duty as Racing manager to check Al Zarooni had kept the records, so he made a catastrophic error too!!!!!
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/825440-Hitler-Reacts-to-Armstrong-Doping-Scandal
I hope they do a Hitler reacts to Godolphin dope scandal
I hope they do a Hitler reacts to Godolphin dope scandal
"According to Godolphin Crisfords role is to ensure the smooth running of the entire Godolphin operation."
the pathetic Crisford really cocked that up didn't he ! how can Sheik Mohammed seriously keep him on now as a racing manager. he has tarnished Godolphin with a stain that will never come out !
the pathetic Crisford really cocked that up didn't he ! how can Sheik Mohammed seriously keep him on now as a racing manager. he has tarnished Godolphin with a stain that will never come out !
I don't post much on the Forums, but do read them.
A question I have asked myself is, how easy is it to get Anabolic Steriods and Drugs to inject into Horses ??
If I have asked a daft question I apologise.
You need to ask that question on the cycling forum
A question I have asked myself is, how easy is it to get Anabolic Steriods and Drugs to inject into Horses ??
If I have asked a daft question I apologise.
You need to ask that question on the cycling forum
if zarooni didn't realise--steroids was illegal---AHEM
he might as well as been holding a syringe when BHA walked in
he might as well as been holding a syringe when BHA walked in
Crisford's had a cushy little job there. While the Sheikh is miles away in Dubai he's been able to ponce around pretending he knows what he's doing. You're right sis. He obviously hasn't checked that Al Zarooni had maintained the records as he'd been instructed to do. Then to sit there and make a pathetic attempt to absolve himself of any blame whatsoever was disgusting.
sandypiper, we're saying "injected" here but Crisford was saying "administered" and mentioned nitrotain so chances are the drug was administered orally.
How easy is it to get them? It's easy if you're a racehorse trainer from Dubai. Eyebrows would be raised if they were acquired in the UK but they're legal in the UAE, then he simply had to fly them in in a freighter.
http://www.naturevet.com.au/international/prodetails.php?pid=81
How easy is it to get them? It's easy if you're a racehorse trainer from Dubai. Eyebrows would be raised if they were acquired in the UK but they're legal in the UAE, then he simply had to fly them in in a freighter.
http://www.naturevet.com.au/international/prodetails.php?pid=81
how long is sheikh mohammed been banned for was it the same 8 years
Simon Christsake is a pubic schoolboy how would he ever possibly think of quitting and doing the right thing he is a part of the cliqueish elite that are inveigled into the framework/fabric of this country and a big part of why we can,t keep up with or rival Germany,the British public must be the most easily conned/cowed people on this planet,great at royal weddings/funerals/regattas wher we get the pretend military "strutting their stuff"
Actually Al Zarooni did keep the records in the most efficient manner and the easiest way to dupe the authority
Bittar - Godolphin doping saga not the last
Friday 26 April 2013
By Racinguk.com staff
British Horseracing Authority officials have started work at Moulton Paddocks as they undertake rigorous testing of all the inmates.
BHA testers went in to the Newmarket yard on Friday in preparation for the full testing of around 200 horses that were previously in the care of the subsequently disgraced handler.
Mahmood Al Zarooni was banned for eight years following a BHA hearing on Thursday after admitting administering anabolic steroids to 15 horses under his care at the Godolphin-owned stables.
Eleven horses tested positive for banned substances following random checks on April 9, with Al Zarooni admitting to giving the drugs to a further four horses. All of them are now subject to a six-month ban from running.
“We have a team at Moulton Paddocks scanning and taking inventory of all the horses,” Paul Bittar, chief executive of the BHA, told Racing UK at Sandown.
“Is it the tip of the iceberg? I don’t think it is a wide-scale problem, but I am not expecting it is the last drugs case we will deal with in the sport.”
Godolphin founder Sheikh Mohammed has been vocal in his condemnation of the incident and locked down the Moulton Paddocks yard until full testing of every horse is undertaken. The BHA is due to start that testing on Monday.
Chief executive Paul Bittar and Godolphin are also tackling the issue of who will oversee the training of horses at the yard. A licensed trainer is required to be in charge.
"We are working with Godolphin, in a pretty tight time frame of something like five to 10 days, to ensure that the stable remains licensed, although there won't be a licensed trainer, " Bittar told rsn.net.au.
"There are two assistant trainers, but neither of them are fully licensed. It's likely that (Godolphin's other trainer Saeed) Bin Suroor will have oversight for a lot of the horses, or Godolphin may choose to decide that Moulton Paddocks will not be used at all during the course of the summer.
"We are giving them every opportunity to ensure that decision over the next five to 10 days.
"Godolphin and Sheikh Mohammed have given use a commitment that they will cooperate fully with all of our requirements in terms of investigations. Our team will be at Al Zarooni's stable tomorrow to scan all the horses and do an inventory.
"We will be testing them from Monday, in which we will cover every horse in the stable that we have not yet tested. We will also be doing a review of their procedures in that stable and then providing them with a report of what needs to be done to get it up to speed."
(Listen to Paul Bittar's interview with RSN.net: http://www.rsn.net.au/audioplayer/1366939668.mp3
Friday 26 April 2013
By Racinguk.com staff
British Horseracing Authority officials have started work at Moulton Paddocks as they undertake rigorous testing of all the inmates.
BHA testers went in to the Newmarket yard on Friday in preparation for the full testing of around 200 horses that were previously in the care of the subsequently disgraced handler.
Mahmood Al Zarooni was banned for eight years following a BHA hearing on Thursday after admitting administering anabolic steroids to 15 horses under his care at the Godolphin-owned stables.
Eleven horses tested positive for banned substances following random checks on April 9, with Al Zarooni admitting to giving the drugs to a further four horses. All of them are now subject to a six-month ban from running.
“We have a team at Moulton Paddocks scanning and taking inventory of all the horses,” Paul Bittar, chief executive of the BHA, told Racing UK at Sandown.
“Is it the tip of the iceberg? I don’t think it is a wide-scale problem, but I am not expecting it is the last drugs case we will deal with in the sport.”
Godolphin founder Sheikh Mohammed has been vocal in his condemnation of the incident and locked down the Moulton Paddocks yard until full testing of every horse is undertaken. The BHA is due to start that testing on Monday.
Chief executive Paul Bittar and Godolphin are also tackling the issue of who will oversee the training of horses at the yard. A licensed trainer is required to be in charge.
"We are working with Godolphin, in a pretty tight time frame of something like five to 10 days, to ensure that the stable remains licensed, although there won't be a licensed trainer, " Bittar told rsn.net.au.
"There are two assistant trainers, but neither of them are fully licensed. It's likely that (Godolphin's other trainer Saeed) Bin Suroor will have oversight for a lot of the horses, or Godolphin may choose to decide that Moulton Paddocks will not be used at all during the course of the summer.
"We are giving them every opportunity to ensure that decision over the next five to 10 days.
"Godolphin and Sheikh Mohammed have given use a commitment that they will cooperate fully with all of our requirements in terms of investigations. Our team will be at Al Zarooni's stable tomorrow to scan all the horses and do an inventory.
"We will be testing them from Monday, in which we will cover every horse in the stable that we have not yet tested. We will also be doing a review of their procedures in that stable and then providing them with a report of what needs to be done to get it up to speed."
(Listen to Paul Bittar's interview with RSN.net: http://www.rsn.net.au/audioplayer/1366939668.mp3
Zarooni case to prompt rules debate
http://betfred.chromaagency.com
BHA chief executive Paul Bittar believes the international racing authorities should look at rules on the use of drugs in the wake of the Mahmood Al Zarooni case.
Godolphin's trainer was banned for eight years following a BHA hearing on Thursday after admitting administering anabolic steroids to 15 horses under his care at the Moulton Paddocks stables in Newmarket.
Other racing jurisdictions have their own set of rules and while steroids are banned in British racing, their use in out-of-training horses is permitted in countries such as Australia, although runners must be clear of drugs by raceday.
Bittar accepts that such differences in policy are inevitable, but feels it is an issue the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities should examine in light of Al Zarooni's ban.
He told rsn.net.au: "If I was advocating about what the rules should be, I think it's pretty hard to take a dim view of athletes using performance-enhancing drugs and drugs that promote growth, such as anabolic steroids, and be critical of athletes using those drugs, but think it's acceptable for horses to be treated in that way.
"Having said that, the circumstances in Australia and other jurisdictions are different. We will certainly be using this case as an opportunity to put the consistent use of drugs internationally back on the agenda of the IFHA. I'm very comfortable with the rules in Britain and I think we've got the best rules in the world in that regard."
Bittar feels the Al Zarooni case is testament to the rigorous drug testing policies in British racing and would not describe the use of banned substances as systematic on these shores. However, the BHA chief feels it would be folly to describe it as a one-off incident.
He added: "We've had testing in training as part of our dope-testing in Britain since 2002. The procedures we have in place now, both in terms of random testing and more importantly in intelligence we receive, probably means that over a period we are going to identify more issues.
"I don't think it's systematic (use of drugs) and to be honest, the use of anabolic steroids within British racing is obviously quite different to the way it's used in Australia, where it's quite common for horses that are not in training to be treated in that way.
"It's not really part of the culture of British racing, but that's not to say that this is the only case we will have, because it's unlikely to be the only case we have. Having said that, since 2006 we have only had three and only two of those have involved the trainer or the person with the care of the horse."
http://betfred.chromaagency.com
BHA chief executive Paul Bittar believes the international racing authorities should look at rules on the use of drugs in the wake of the Mahmood Al Zarooni case.
Godolphin's trainer was banned for eight years following a BHA hearing on Thursday after admitting administering anabolic steroids to 15 horses under his care at the Moulton Paddocks stables in Newmarket.
Other racing jurisdictions have their own set of rules and while steroids are banned in British racing, their use in out-of-training horses is permitted in countries such as Australia, although runners must be clear of drugs by raceday.
Bittar accepts that such differences in policy are inevitable, but feels it is an issue the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities should examine in light of Al Zarooni's ban.
He told rsn.net.au: "If I was advocating about what the rules should be, I think it's pretty hard to take a dim view of athletes using performance-enhancing drugs and drugs that promote growth, such as anabolic steroids, and be critical of athletes using those drugs, but think it's acceptable for horses to be treated in that way.
"Having said that, the circumstances in Australia and other jurisdictions are different. We will certainly be using this case as an opportunity to put the consistent use of drugs internationally back on the agenda of the IFHA. I'm very comfortable with the rules in Britain and I think we've got the best rules in the world in that regard."
Bittar feels the Al Zarooni case is testament to the rigorous drug testing policies in British racing and would not describe the use of banned substances as systematic on these shores. However, the BHA chief feels it would be folly to describe it as a one-off incident.
He added: "We've had testing in training as part of our dope-testing in Britain since 2002. The procedures we have in place now, both in terms of random testing and more importantly in intelligence we receive, probably means that over a period we are going to identify more issues.
"I don't think it's systematic (use of drugs) and to be honest, the use of anabolic steroids within British racing is obviously quite different to the way it's used in Australia, where it's quite common for horses that are not in training to be treated in that way.
"It's not really part of the culture of British racing, but that's not to say that this is the only case we will have, because it's unlikely to be the only case we have. Having said that, since 2006 we have only had three and only two of those have involved the trainer or the person with the care of the horse."
Bittar said, "We will be testing them from Monday, in which we will cover every horse in the stable that we have not yet tested..."
Ethylestrenol's USP is that it disappears from a horse's system within days.
Ethylestrenol's USP is that it disappears from a horse's system within days.
Can anab. steroids ever be considered to be a medical treatment or part thereof ?
Are they invariably used with masking agents ?
What is the 'wearing off time' of the masking agents -i.e. could the discovery of a m.agent residue be an indication that steroids had been 'administered'?
Are they invariably used with masking agents ?
What is the 'wearing off time' of the masking agents -i.e. could the discovery of a m.agent residue be an indication that steroids had been 'administered'?
https://mobile.twitter.com/Tweet_Naps/status/327829526715457536/photos
1. Said it before but shouldn't they have tested the horses in the other Godolphin stable ?
2. Was Zarooni doing the same last season ?
3. If there was a whistle blower then it stands to reason that others knew what Zarooni was up to. How many did know ?
4. Has it been standard practice in Dubai with the Sheikh's horses ?
5. Why is the Sheikh so up in arms when his country accepts pre training use of steroids ?
2. Was Zarooni doing the same last season ?
3. If there was a whistle blower then it stands to reason that others knew what Zarooni was up to. How many did know ?
4. Has it been standard practice in Dubai with the Sheikh's horses ?
5. Why is the Sheikh so up in arms when his country accepts pre training use of steroids ?
Crisford is dead in the water....he'll be a laughing stock at the races so he has to go.Reminds me of politicians who are sussed and then hang on proclaiming their innocence....before the inevitable happens and they go.
Can't understand why all horses aren't tested at the racecourse before they run. Bittar is just a joke...where do these clowns come from.
Can't understand why all horses aren't tested at the racecourse before they run. Bittar is just a joke...where do these clowns come from.
If Ferguson bought some decent horses they wouldn't need drugs! Godolphin needs a complete overhaul, too many people there to take the money and not do a decent job it seems
Can anab. steroids ever be considered to be a medical treatment or part thereof ?
Yes
"Anabolic steroids are allowed to be used in the UAE if horses are not in training and are recovering from problems such as colic surgery or serious fractures to combat muscle wastage."
http://www.thenational.ae/sport/horse-racing/anabolic-steroids-permitted-in-uae-to-aid-horses-recovery-from-colic-or-serious-fractures
Yes
"Anabolic steroids are allowed to be used in the UAE if horses are not in training and are recovering from problems such as colic surgery or serious fractures to combat muscle wastage."
http://www.thenational.ae/sport/horse-racing/anabolic-steroids-permitted-in-uae-to-aid-horses-recovery-from-colic-or-serious-fractures
I know nothing about buying and selling horses but obviously a few did and have joined the Gravy train....
Often wondered why Godolphin horses disappear for months at a time with no explanation well now we know why
Another point concerning this operation - we have never really found out why the magic wand stopped working so well with those older horses transferred or sometimes purchased from other yards - the likes of Daylami, Swain, Fantastic Light, Marienbard, Sulamani, ect absolutely thrived under their banner - then , relatively suddenly,they were not producing them with such regularity.
A_T 26 Apr 13 21:02
Often wondered why Godolphin horses disappear for months at a time with no explanation well now we know why
------------------------
I must admit - that when studying the form for the Meydan Carnival races - throughout February and March - I thought .....
What do these horses do who ONLY seem to race in February and March, in Meydan/Jebel Ali - and likewise formerly Nad Al Sheba.
I know that it is too hot to race there in the summer months
- and - True, a few of the better class ones race in England, and elsewhere - but most of the 90 - 110 rated horses only seem to race at home....
- and they do put up some excellent re-appearance performances - considering that they have not raced for 11 months.
Often wondered why Godolphin horses disappear for months at a time with no explanation well now we know why
------------------------
I must admit - that when studying the form for the Meydan Carnival races - throughout February and March - I thought .....
What do these horses do who ONLY seem to race in February and March, in Meydan/Jebel Ali - and likewise formerly Nad Al Sheba.
I know that it is too hot to race there in the summer months
- and - True, a few of the better class ones race in England, and elsewhere - but most of the 90 - 110 rated horses only seem to race at home....
- and they do put up some excellent re-appearance performances - considering that they have not raced for 11 months.
they stopped buying the top older horses and concentrated on breeding and buying imo
the accusations that they "bought" success made them shift direction imo ,although they did still buy plenty horses ,new approach ect ect and plenty duds ,the duds is what really stopped them imo .
are you suggesting they bought the best horses and used AB,s ect ? daylami was on the juice ? it had the form in the book they worked no magic ,it was a late devolper and still improving imo
swain had the forum in the book ,as did marianbard ect ect dont understand what you are getting at ?
jack berry trained a winner for godolphin in the very early days ffs ,they bought the best and went from there the prob is many dont understand that dubai is first and foremost ,and i dont really understand what the UK op is really all about or the french op or the aus op ect
through in Darley and its seems cloudy ,do they even know ?
they dont seem about ready to win a derby anytime soon and dont think they are even interested in the race anymore .
or the 2k G .
without doubt there is a prob with AB,s in the southern hemisphere ,SA,AUS,DUBAI and USA . So just the uk is clean really and IRE dont forget IRE is sqeaky extra CLEAN
the accusations that they "bought" success made them shift direction imo ,although they did still buy plenty horses ,new approach ect ect and plenty duds ,the duds is what really stopped them imo .
are you suggesting they bought the best horses and used AB,s ect ? daylami was on the juice ? it had the form in the book they worked no magic ,it was a late devolper and still improving imo
swain had the forum in the book ,as did marianbard ect ect dont understand what you are getting at ?
jack berry trained a winner for godolphin in the very early days ffs ,they bought the best and went from there the prob is many dont understand that dubai is first and foremost ,and i dont really understand what the UK op is really all about or the french op or the aus op ect
through in Darley and its seems cloudy ,do they even know ?
they dont seem about ready to win a derby anytime soon and dont think they are even interested in the race anymore .
or the 2k G .
without doubt there is a prob with AB,s in the southern hemisphere ,SA,AUS,DUBAI and USA . So just the uk is clean really
and IRE dont forget IRE is sqeaky extra CLEAN
BHA will not break down 2012 drug test figures for Godolphin
• Testing continues of horses at Mahmood al-Zarooni yard
• Only 600-700 out-of-competition tests were carried out in 2012
Owen Gibson
The Guardian, Friday 26 April 2013
The British Horseracing Authority has refused to divulge how many Godolphin horses have been tested for banned substances in the past two years, despite this week banning 15 of the stable's horses for six months and effectively casting the shamed trainer Mahmood al-Zarooni from the sport.
While the BHA publishes figures showing how many raceday tests have been carried out in each calendar year, it said it would not break down the figures any further despite the shadow hanging over the world's biggest bloodstock operation.
It is understood that Certify, the winter favourite for the 1,000 Guineas who was one of 15 horses banned, after being given anabolic steroids by Zarooni, was tested twice last year and was clean both times.
The BHA also confirmed that both Godolphin yards in Newmarket – one under the aegis of Zarooni and the other under Saeed Bin Suroor – had been visited for "in training" testing in the past "few years" and no horses had tested positive.
The sport's governing body also said it was unrealistic to expect the winner of every race to be tested – hence it was inevitable that not every Godolphin winner would have been tested during the past two years. "We test horses from every race but not always the winner," said a BHA spokesman. "What I can say is that the winner of every major race almost certainly would have been tested."
The BHA's figures show that of 90,174 runners in 2012, it conducted 7,182 raceday tests – 14 of which were positive. It has pointed to those figures as evidence that racing does not have an endemic problem. Yet only 600-700 out-of-competition tests were carried out in 2012 as part of the BHA's "testing in training" sampling programme. Again, it would not break down where these tests were targeted.
"There could be a number of reasons why a yard could be idenitified for testing in training but we do not disclose the strategy for this," said the BHA.
In non-equine sport the direction of travel has been towards increased out-of-competition testing at short notice, leading to the development of the World Anti-Doping Agency's "wherebouts" programme.
The BHA said it was too early to say whether or not its out-of-competition testing regime would be improved as a result of the scandal, pointing instead to the statement by Paul Bittar, its chief executive, in the wake of the ruling on Thursday that it would "identify further areas for consideration" to be incorporated into its sampling strategy.
The BHA is now testing the remaining horses (around 150 in number) at Zarooni's Moulton Paddocks yard. However, the horses in Bin Suroor's stable, where the rest of Godolphin's 300-plus horses are trained, will not be tested.
The case has highlighted the inconsistencies in the approach to drugs taken by the various racing jurisdictions around the world with the BHA's so-called "zero tolerance" stance, which bans the use of steroids in races and training, far from standard. As racing becomes more international, those inconsistencies are likely to be thrown into sharper relief and, unlike other sports, there is no global harmonised code.
In Australia it is legal to use steroids in training and in Dubai it is legal to administer steroids before a horse goes into training. In the US steroids have been routinely used since the 1960s and they remain legal for use in training in most states.
While Bittar's statement on Thursday said that the BHA would raise the issue again with its international counterparts, on Friday he said it was unlikely that Australia would change its rules and admitted that Britain was unlikely to do anything that would force it to do so.
"It's unlikely that will happen but even though the rules in Australia are different from Britain, and we might take a view that we're comfortable with our rules and they're the best in world, we have to respect that the way horses are trained and the way they are treated in their home jurisdictions is under the auspices of those rules," he said.
"If those horses come here, they will be drug-tested, either post-race or in the lead-up to the race, and the drugs may well have cleared the system. In that case it seems a slight anomaly but I don't think it would ever shift us to a position where we stop overseas horses coming in."
A spokesman for Ascot, at the forefront of trying to encourage big-name horses from overseas to race in the UK over recent years, said it was "becoming a massive issue" and something the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities should put "as a No1 priority for discussion".
But he said the course would continue to try to attract horses from abroad. "As long as everyone is operating within the rules, there is no reason not to encourage horses to travel," he said
• Testing continues of horses at Mahmood al-Zarooni yard
• Only 600-700 out-of-competition tests were carried out in 2012
Owen Gibson
The Guardian, Friday 26 April 2013
The British Horseracing Authority has refused to divulge how many Godolphin horses have been tested for banned substances in the past two years, despite this week banning 15 of the stable's horses for six months and effectively casting the shamed trainer Mahmood al-Zarooni from the sport.
While the BHA publishes figures showing how many raceday tests have been carried out in each calendar year, it said it would not break down the figures any further despite the shadow hanging over the world's biggest bloodstock operation.
It is understood that Certify, the winter favourite for the 1,000 Guineas who was one of 15 horses banned, after being given anabolic steroids by Zarooni, was tested twice last year and was clean both times.
The BHA also confirmed that both Godolphin yards in Newmarket – one under the aegis of Zarooni and the other under Saeed Bin Suroor – had been visited for "in training" testing in the past "few years" and no horses had tested positive.
The sport's governing body also said it was unrealistic to expect the winner of every race to be tested – hence it was inevitable that not every Godolphin winner would have been tested during the past two years. "We test horses from every race but not always the winner," said a BHA spokesman. "What I can say is that the winner of every major race almost certainly would have been tested."
The BHA's figures show that of 90,174 runners in 2012, it conducted 7,182 raceday tests – 14 of which were positive. It has pointed to those figures as evidence that racing does not have an endemic problem. Yet only 600-700 out-of-competition tests were carried out in 2012 as part of the BHA's "testing in training" sampling programme. Again, it would not break down where these tests were targeted.
"There could be a number of reasons why a yard could be idenitified for testing in training but we do not disclose the strategy for this," said the BHA.
In non-equine sport the direction of travel has been towards increased out-of-competition testing at short notice, leading to the development of the World Anti-Doping Agency's "wherebouts" programme.
The BHA said it was too early to say whether or not its out-of-competition testing regime would be improved as a result of the scandal, pointing instead to the statement by Paul Bittar, its chief executive, in the wake of the ruling on Thursday that it would "identify further areas for consideration" to be incorporated into its sampling strategy.
The BHA is now testing the remaining horses (around 150 in number) at Zarooni's Moulton Paddocks yard. However, the horses in Bin Suroor's stable, where the rest of Godolphin's 300-plus horses are trained, will not be tested.
The case has highlighted the inconsistencies in the approach to drugs taken by the various racing jurisdictions around the world with the BHA's so-called "zero tolerance" stance, which bans the use of steroids in races and training, far from standard. As racing becomes more international, those inconsistencies are likely to be thrown into sharper relief and, unlike other sports, there is no global harmonised code.
In Australia it is legal to use steroids in training and in Dubai it is legal to administer steroids before a horse goes into training. In the US steroids have been routinely used since the 1960s and they remain legal for use in training in most states.
While Bittar's statement on Thursday said that the BHA would raise the issue again with its international counterparts, on Friday he said it was unlikely that Australia would change its rules and admitted that Britain was unlikely to do anything that would force it to do so.
"It's unlikely that will happen but even though the rules in Australia are different from Britain, and we might take a view that we're comfortable with our rules and they're the best in world, we have to respect that the way horses are trained and the way they are treated in their home jurisdictions is under the auspices of those rules," he said.
"If those horses come here, they will be drug-tested, either post-race or in the lead-up to the race, and the drugs may well have cleared the system. In that case it seems a slight anomaly but I don't think it would ever shift us to a position where we stop overseas horses coming in."
A spokesman for Ascot, at the forefront of trying to encourage big-name horses from overseas to race in the UK over recent years, said it was "becoming a massive issue" and something the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities should put "as a No1 priority for discussion".
But he said the course would continue to try to attract horses from abroad. "As long as everyone is operating within the rules, there is no reason not to encourage horses to travel," he said
BHA chief Paul Bittar: 'We had to get Mahmood Al Zarooni out of Godolphion stable, and fast'
People have asked why the BHA moved so fast in the Godolphin case and the simple fact of the matter is we could not afford to have Mahmood Al Zarooni left in charge of the stable for a prolonged period once it had been established that he had ordered the administration of the anabolic steroids to horses in his care.
By Paul Bittar, CEO British Horseracing Authority telegraph.co.uk
When it came to the penalty, we sought for the Disciplinary Panel to consider the three charges as a blanket charge and the guidelines provided for a ban of anything between one month and 10 years. The Panel determined it should be in the upper reaches of the range because of the gravity and scale of the breaches, in particular the deliberate and covert nature of administrations, as well as not recording them in the medication records. We are comfortable with the resultant penalty of eight years.
We have said the investigations will continue. on Friday we had our Chief Veterinary Officer and an assistant at Moulton Paddocks checking each horse against its microchip and effectively putting together an inventory of the stable. We have been in discussions with the HFL Sport Science laboratory and as many as 200 tests will begin early next week, with the horses being tested on Monday.
Interviews at the yard have already taken place and will continue to do so. Some of those will fall within our jurisdiction and some, like vets, are not captured under the Rules of Racing. Ultimately though, it is the licensed Trainer who has sole responsibility for everything that occurs in the yard.
We have no current plans to review our drug policy. We are very comfortable with the policies in place, particularly in respect of anabolic steroids. I have worked in a number of jurisdictions around the world and British Racing represents the high watermark on this internationally. Zero tolerance in regard of anabolic steroids strikes us as the right position for British Racing, indeed world racing. We will also encourage other jurisdictions to employ the same rules.
In Australia, for example, this would not have shown up as a positive which we find a complete anomaly. We can press for this through the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities and their veterinary committee.
So can racegoers at Sandown or any other meeting on Saturday have confidence that what they are watching is legitimate? Yes.
The fact is we have a structured and rigorous raceday testing regime; around 8,000 horses are tested a year, 10 per cent in training, 7,000 post-race at the racecourse. The proportion of positives, normally a legal medication for a veterinary problem which has not left the system, is 0.2 per cent which equates to one in every 500 winners.
We are confident, on the basis of the evidence we have, Al Zarooni had not been doing this for a long time in Britain. The BHA has tested both his horses and those of Saeed Bin Suroor in training before and never had any issues.
He presented investigators a list of the horses he had treated with anabolic steroids and said he had not administered horses in this country previously, though he admitted having done it in Dubai (where it is legal in training). Godolphin have had 1000s of winners here, all of which have tested negative.
The investigation will continue at various different levels. We still have others to speak to and deal with. There is still a lot more work to do but we cannot speculate on whether more charges will be brought.
We are not planning to interview Sheikh Mohammed at this stage. We will meet with him to understand his plans for this yard and this far he and Godolphin's Racing Manager Simon Crisford have been as co-operative as they could have been.
No one in racing sits outside the Rules and, if this case proves anything, it is that. The hearing and events which took place on Thursday would not have taken place if we took that view. Sheikh Mohammed's trainer has been banned for eight years and his horses suspended for six months.
We treat everyone the same under the Rules but, at the same time, that does not mean we don’t respect Sheikh Mohammed's very considerable contribution to British Racing and we hope this incident doesn't impact his investment or love of the sport in this country
People have asked why the BHA moved so fast in the Godolphin case and the simple fact of the matter is we could not afford to have Mahmood Al Zarooni left in charge of the stable for a prolonged period once it had been established that he had ordered the administration of the anabolic steroids to horses in his care.
By Paul Bittar, CEO British Horseracing Authority telegraph.co.uk
When it came to the penalty, we sought for the Disciplinary Panel to consider the three charges as a blanket charge and the guidelines provided for a ban of anything between one month and 10 years. The Panel determined it should be in the upper reaches of the range because of the gravity and scale of the breaches, in particular the deliberate and covert nature of administrations, as well as not recording them in the medication records. We are comfortable with the resultant penalty of eight years.
We have said the investigations will continue. on Friday we had our Chief Veterinary Officer and an assistant at Moulton Paddocks checking each horse against its microchip and effectively putting together an inventory of the stable. We have been in discussions with the HFL Sport Science laboratory and as many as 200 tests will begin early next week, with the horses being tested on Monday.
Interviews at the yard have already taken place and will continue to do so. Some of those will fall within our jurisdiction and some, like vets, are not captured under the Rules of Racing. Ultimately though, it is the licensed Trainer who has sole responsibility for everything that occurs in the yard.
We have no current plans to review our drug policy. We are very comfortable with the policies in place, particularly in respect of anabolic steroids. I have worked in a number of jurisdictions around the world and British Racing represents the high watermark on this internationally. Zero tolerance in regard of anabolic steroids strikes us as the right position for British Racing, indeed world racing. We will also encourage other jurisdictions to employ the same rules.
In Australia, for example, this would not have shown up as a positive which we find a complete anomaly. We can press for this through the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities and their veterinary committee.
So can racegoers at Sandown or any other meeting on Saturday have confidence that what they are watching is legitimate? Yes.
The fact is we have a structured and rigorous raceday testing regime; around 8,000 horses are tested a year, 10 per cent in training, 7,000 post-race at the racecourse. The proportion of positives, normally a legal medication for a veterinary problem which has not left the system, is 0.2 per cent which equates to one in every 500 winners.
We are confident, on the basis of the evidence we have, Al Zarooni had not been doing this for a long time in Britain. The BHA has tested both his horses and those of Saeed Bin Suroor in training before and never had any issues.
He presented investigators a list of the horses he had treated with anabolic steroids and said he had not administered horses in this country previously, though he admitted having done it in Dubai (where it is legal in training). Godolphin have had 1000s of winners here, all of which have tested negative.
The investigation will continue at various different levels. We still have others to speak to and deal with. There is still a lot more work to do but we cannot speculate on whether more charges will be brought.
We are not planning to interview Sheikh Mohammed at this stage. We will meet with him to understand his plans for this yard and this far he and Godolphin's Racing Manager Simon Crisford have been as co-operative as they could have been.
No one in racing sits outside the Rules and, if this case proves anything, it is that. The hearing and events which took place on Thursday would not have taken place if we took that view. Sheikh Mohammed's trainer has been banned for eight years and his horses suspended for six months.
We treat everyone the same under the Rules but, at the same time, that does not mean we don’t respect Sheikh Mohammed's very considerable contribution to British Racing and we hope this incident doesn't impact his investment or love of the sport in this country
B&B,I've no idea whether they were on anything but they did work magic with some of them. Daylami was a miler who looked as though he'd stay a miler - he improved significantly, a stone at least and remember the visual impression he created in the KG. In the immediate aftermath(admittedly when logic goes out the window) he looked up with the best of them from the past that day.
Moon Ballad was another who created a visual impression similar to Dubai Millenium when winning the same race. He had never given an inkling that such a performance was in him - remember how far he was off the two Ballydoyle horses in his Derby - and never repeated it after. The feeling that the Nad Al Sheba track flatters some of the winners is not a solid answer.
I realise they were envious of the Ballydoyle breeding operation and changed course after initially not touching Galileos', but there is no reason why this would- them from continuing to have some older horses, pulled in or purchased from other yards to keep them in the limelight - which they have been continuing to do but without the same sparkling results.
Moon Ballad was another who created a visual impression similar to Dubai Millenium when winning the same race. He had never given an inkling that such a performance was in him - remember how far he was off the two Ballydoyle horses in his Derby - and never repeated it after. The feeling that the Nad Al Sheba track flatters some of the winners is not a solid answer.
I realise they were envious of the Ballydoyle breeding operation and changed course after initially not touching Galileos', but there is no reason why this would- them from continuing to have some older horses, pulled in or purchased from other yards to keep them in the limelight - which they have been continuing to do but without the same sparkling results.
Call the cops
Yahoo.com
One of the most searching questions will be how the illegal steroids made their way into the country in the first place and who ordered them
Yahoo.com
One of the most searching questions will be how the illegal steroids made their way into the country in the first place and who ordered them
at what point are you suggesting Daylami was a a confirmed miler ?
DATE RACE CONDITIONS WGT RACE OUTCOME JOCKEY OR TS RPR
06Nov99 Gul 12Gd G1 626K 9-0 1/14 (2½L Royal Anthem 9-0) 8/5F Frankie Dettori — * *
03Oct99 Lon 12Hy G1 538K 9-5 9/14 (24L Montjeu 8-11) 4/1 Frankie Dettori — * *
11Sep99 Leo 10Y/Sft G1 376K 9-4 1/7 (9L Dazzling Park 8-8) 6/4 Frankie Dettori 129 * *
24Jul99 Asc 12GF C1G1 342K 9-7 1/8 (5L Nedawi 9-7) 3/1 Frankie Dettori 125 * *
04Jun99 Eps 12GS C1G1 118K 9-0 1/7 (¾L Royal Anthem 9-0) 9/2 Frankie Dettori 123 * *
23May99 Cur 11Gd G1 55K 9-0 2/6 (2½L Shiva 8-11) EvensF Frankie Dettori — * *
28Mar99 Nad 10Fs G1 1807K 9-0 5/8 (4¼L Almutawakel 9-0) J R Velazquez — * *
17Oct98 Nmk 10Gd C1G1 228K 9-2 3/10 (2¼L Alborada 8-8) 6/5F Frankie Dettori 123 * *
12Sep98 Blm 11Fm G1 146K 9-0 1/9 (1¼L Buck's Boy 9-0) 5/4F J D Bailey — * *
25Jul98 Asc 12GF C1G1 354K 9-7 4/8 (3L Swain 9-7) 6/1 Mick Kinane 123 * *
04Jul98 San 10Gd C1G1 147K 9-7 1/7 (½L Faithful Son 9-7) 6/4F Frankie Dettori — * *
16Jun98 Asc 10GS C1G2 71K 9-8 3/8 (½L Faithful Son 9-3) 2/1J Frankie Dettori — * *
24May98 Cur 10GF G2 42K 9-4 1/5 (1½L Stage Affair 8-12) 5/4F Frankie Dettori — * *
07Sep97 Lon 8Gd G1 101K 8-11 3/9 (3½L Spinning World 9-2) 18/5 Gerald Mosse — * *
17Aug97 Dea 8Gd G1 112K 8-11 2/6 (2L Spinning World 9-4) 12/5 Gerald Mosse — * *
17Jun97 Asc 8Gd C13yG1 134K 9-0 3/8 (5L Starborough 9-0) 7/2 Gerald Mosse — * *
11May97 Lon 8VSft 3yG1 112K 9-2 1/6 (2L Loup Sauvage 9-2) 8/5 Gerald Mosse — * *
20Apr97 Lon 8Gd 3yG3 24K 9-2 1/6 (2L Loup Sauvage 9-2) 2/1 Gerald Mosse — * *
02Nov96 Sai 10VSft 2yG1 52K 9-0 2/10 (¾L Shaka 9-0) 4/5J Gerald Mosse — * *
07Oct96 Evr 8Gd 2yL 18K 9-2 1/6 (2L Bartex 9-2) Gerald Mosse — *
19Sep96 Lon 8Gd 2y 11K 9-2 1/9 (1½L Rate Cut 9-2) Gerald
no magic just a very good horse ,after it finished 4th to the stable first string swain in the KG i knew it was a stick on for the race the following year .
no magic about that imo . 2nd at 1m2 as a two year old when trained by dupre? and although it won over a mile the milers were not that great imo ,was always a 12f oss imo .no magic just a very good horse .
if everything they ran was juiced they would have the breeding game by the bollocks by now .
In cycling an old man can go very fast with all the right gear but not sure the same would ever apply to horses dont think the lance armstong team could get a plater to win a derby but i stand to be corrected
DATE RACE CONDITIONS WGT RACE OUTCOME JOCKEY OR TS RPR
06Nov99 Gul 12Gd G1 626K 9-0 1/14 (2½L Royal Anthem 9-0) 8/5F Frankie Dettori — * *
03Oct99 Lon 12Hy G1 538K 9-5 9/14 (24L Montjeu 8-11) 4/1 Frankie Dettori — * *
11Sep99 Leo 10Y/Sft G1 376K 9-4 1/7 (9L Dazzling Park 8-8) 6/4 Frankie Dettori 129 * *
24Jul99 Asc 12GF C1G1 342K 9-7 1/8 (5L Nedawi 9-7) 3/1 Frankie Dettori 125 * *
04Jun99 Eps 12GS C1G1 118K 9-0 1/7 (¾L Royal Anthem 9-0) 9/2 Frankie Dettori 123 * *
23May99 Cur 11Gd G1 55K 9-0 2/6 (2½L Shiva 8-11) EvensF Frankie Dettori — * *
28Mar99 Nad 10Fs G1 1807K 9-0 5/8 (4¼L Almutawakel 9-0) J R Velazquez — * *
17Oct98 Nmk 10Gd C1G1 228K 9-2 3/10 (2¼L Alborada 8-8) 6/5F Frankie Dettori 123 * *
12Sep98 Blm 11Fm G1 146K 9-0 1/9 (1¼L Buck's Boy 9-0) 5/4F J D Bailey — * *
25Jul98 Asc 12GF C1G1 354K 9-7 4/8 (3L Swain 9-7) 6/1 Mick Kinane 123 * *
04Jul98 San 10Gd C1G1 147K 9-7 1/7 (½L Faithful Son 9-7) 6/4F Frankie Dettori — * *
16Jun98 Asc 10GS C1G2 71K 9-8 3/8 (½L Faithful Son 9-3) 2/1J Frankie Dettori — * *
24May98 Cur 10GF G2 42K 9-4 1/5 (1½L Stage Affair 8-12) 5/4F Frankie Dettori — * *
07Sep97 Lon 8Gd G1 101K 8-11 3/9 (3½L Spinning World 9-2) 18/5 Gerald Mosse — * *
17Aug97 Dea 8Gd G1 112K 8-11 2/6 (2L Spinning World 9-4) 12/5 Gerald Mosse — * *
17Jun97 Asc 8Gd C13yG1 134K 9-0 3/8 (5L Starborough 9-0) 7/2 Gerald Mosse — * *
11May97 Lon 8VSft 3yG1 112K 9-2 1/6 (2L Loup Sauvage 9-2) 8/5 Gerald Mosse — * *
20Apr97 Lon 8Gd 3yG3 24K 9-2 1/6 (2L Loup Sauvage 9-2) 2/1 Gerald Mosse — * *
02Nov96 Sai 10VSft 2yG1 52K 9-0 2/10 (¾L Shaka 9-0) 4/5J Gerald Mosse — * *
07Oct96 Evr 8Gd 2yL 18K 9-2 1/6 (2L Bartex 9-2) Gerald Mosse — *
19Sep96 Lon 8Gd 2y 11K 9-2 1/9 (1½L Rate Cut 9-2) Gerald
no magic just a very good horse ,after it finished 4th to the stable first string swain in the KG i knew it was a stick on for the race the following year .
no magic about that imo . 2nd at 1m2 as a two year old when trained by dupre? and although it won over a mile the milers were not that great imo ,was always a 12f oss imo .no magic just a very good horse .
if everything they ran was juiced they would have the breeding game by the bollocks by now .
In cycling an old man can go very fast with all the right gear but not sure the same would ever apply to horses dont think the lance armstong team could get a plater to win a derby but i stand to be corrected
"If Ferguson bought some decent horses they wouldn't need drugs! "
this is the most appropriate comment on this thread...........ferguson has bought about a thousand andy carolls in past 15 years......no idea how he is considered a bloodstock agent.
this is the most appropriate comment on this thread...........ferguson has bought about a thousand andy carolls in past 15 years......no idea how he is considered a bloodstock agent.
I would say Daylami was an established miler at the end of his 3 y-r-o career, as Dupre never ventured beyond that trip with him that season on the back of him getting turned over at Saint Cloud at the end of his juvenile season. If Dupre and the Aga Khan had considered him a middle distance horse, surely they would have tried him beyond a mile during 1997.
On the subject of gaining unfair advantages, do you remember the season Angel Penna had in 1976, winning the 1,000 Gns with Flying Water, the Oaks and King George with Pawneese, and the St Leger with Crow. I always thought of him as the 'mighty' Angel Penna until many years later when I read a published interview with Maurice Zilber who told Paul Haigh, ' Angel Penna was a good trainer who discovered how to use Bute and Lasix before the other European trainers'.
And on staying the subject of the French runners during 1976, Boutin's Trepan was disqualified from both the Prince of Wales and Eclipse after being found to have been administered with performance enhancing substances.For a couple of years following this incident the number of French runners in the UK declined notably.
On the subject of gaining unfair advantages, do you remember the season Angel Penna had in 1976, winning the 1,000 Gns with Flying Water, the Oaks and King George with Pawneese, and the St Leger with Crow. I always thought of him as the 'mighty' Angel Penna until many years later when I read a published interview with Maurice Zilber who told Paul Haigh, ' Angel Penna was a good trainer who discovered how to use Bute and Lasix before the other European trainers'.
And on staying the subject of the French runners during 1976, Boutin's Trepan was disqualified from both the Prince of Wales and Eclipse after being found to have been administered with performance enhancing substances.For a couple of years following this incident the number of French runners in the UK declined notably.
verbotene I remember that season's classics as if they were yesterday....I had for me at the time a large antepost bet yankee on Wollow to win the 2000gns and Derby ,Flying Water to win the 1000gns and Pawnese the Oaks.I was at Epsom for the Derby and was totally gutted.
Until reading your post i'd no idea that the two fillies might have been on drugs.
Until reading your post i'd no idea that the two fillies might have been on drugs.
It's not a surprise this is going on- it is a surprise such a high-profile has been caught. Would be interesting to hear the full story behind this.
The Zilber interview was in the RP when it still had some decent writers. Perhaps 10-15 years ago, might be in the archives somewhere.
Another point regarding the somewhat tainted Penna; P T Walwyn made a mention in his book of the state that Buckskin and Crow were in when they were sent to him. Penna had very quickly gone over to train in the states and the horses he inherited were shabby with overgrown maines ect
Another point regarding the somewhat tainted Penna; P T Walwyn made a mention in his book of the state that Buckskin and Crow were in when they were sent to him. Penna had very quickly gone over to train in the states and the horses he inherited were shabby with overgrown maines ect
Does Ferguson not have to buy a lot of horses for politcla reasons. Not always the horses he want to buy.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539