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24 Apr 13
09:34
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10 Jul 01
FACT!
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I cook quite a lot of meat balls, I have grown 8 inches taller in the last year.
If BHA say too expensive....then I'm sure the SHAKE will step in and foot the bill 
MHT agrees with you stakey !
"I would go further and say that the programme should be extended. All yards, large or small, flat or National Hunt, should be told to expect many more frequent, random and unannounced visits from the dope testers in future.
Racing has never been very good at PR, almost always finding itself on the defensive, but a wider programme of testing should be announced promptly, and instigated immediately."
"I would go further and say that the programme should be extended. All yards, large or small, flat or National Hunt, should be told to expect many more frequent, random and unannounced visits from the dope testers in future.
Racing has never been very good at PR, almost always finding itself on the defensive, but a wider programme of testing should be announced promptly, and instigated immediately."
This is what you would get if such a regimen on 'banned substances' (not just anabolics) was introduced tomorrow.
Races full of trainers with less than 5% strike rates.
No trainer under 40 with a runner to be seen.
No trainer with a Group win on their CV with a runner.
Yes I know what that implies but that is the reality and the only surprises here are 1) Zarooni's outfit allowed themselves to be caught when it's relatively easy to not be and 2) The BHA have outed Zarooni/Godolphin instead of taking the 'quiet knock on the door, sort this out please asap approach'.
Vintage Crop 1993 Melbourne Cup - those that know, know what I mean and that was 20 years ago.
Comical scenes all this hysteria - nothing to see here unless you have had your head in the sand the past decade (or two!)
Races full of trainers with less than 5% strike rates.
No trainer under 40 with a runner to be seen.
No trainer with a Group win on their CV with a runner.
Yes I know what that implies but that is the reality and the only surprises here are 1) Zarooni's outfit allowed themselves to be caught when it's relatively easy to not be and 2) The BHA have outed Zarooni/Godolphin instead of taking the 'quiet knock on the door, sort this out please asap approach'.
Vintage Crop 1993 Melbourne Cup - those that know, know what I mean and that was 20 years ago.
Comical scenes all this hysteria - nothing to see here unless you have had your head in the sand the past decade (or two!)
wasnt it a few years back when one lab closed or moved and it was stated then due to funding LESS drug testing would take place
More dope testing...Its like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted (at a fooking alarming speed having shown remarkable improvement)
can anyone clarify for me ,,, the initial sampling was just part of the string so when the problems arose did they then sample the rest of the stable or justleave it at that .?
then did the testers go to the other gololphine yards and test them ?
Is any of this stuff they are doing actually illegal ie should the police be involved .?
then did the testers go to the other gololphine yards and test them ?
Is any of this stuff they are doing actually illegal ie should the police be involved .?
funding should be into research of why huge drifters run poorly on the AW....is there a link between the application of money and performance?
@Studious_1
It may surprise you to know that a lot of people are genuinely shocked by this.
If the reaction is so comical and deserving of your condescending tone perhaps you will enlighten us as to what is happening on a day-to-day basis and why it is not policed and why the biggest owner in the world is now being taken down?
comical scenes: there are many examples of rules being unenforced or overlooked but to my mind there is always a day of reckoning and we may be here now.
Furthermore, suggesting that we will be left with a barren trainer landscape leaves me unimpressed.
It may surprise you to know that a lot of people are genuinely shocked by this.
If the reaction is so comical and deserving of your condescending tone perhaps you will enlighten us as to what is happening on a day-to-day basis and why it is not policed and why the biggest owner in the world is now being taken down?
comical scenes: there are many examples of rules being unenforced or overlooked but to my mind there is always a day of reckoning and we may be here now.
Furthermore, suggesting that we will be left with a barren trainer landscape leaves me unimpressed.
It does surprise me RA and it doesn't too - mixed I guess.
From your post you seem like a smart and considered bloke - let me pose the following to you.
Read this article first before reading the rest of my post.
http://www.drf.com/news/super-trainers-make-game-harder-ever
Now that article relates to racing in a different country. However the correlation to that country and this country's racing is as follows: Big prize money, prestige and pressure to win horse races.
In Australia the use of AB's is legal (that is another massive racing jurisdiction).
Having read the above article and being made aware of Australia's drug policy: Do you honestly believe in a sport where races are worth hundreds of thousands of pounds in this country, where livelyhoods and careers are on the line, where pressure is on a trainer to produce for his owners, family, reputation - that plenty of them won't seek to find an edge?
Notice I never said the use of steroids when making my post - I said the use of 'banned substances' in whatever shape or form they might be.
Why don't they get caught? Because they are a step ahead to start with and because the system currently in place to catch abusers is simply not stringent, well funded or expansive enough. It happened in cycling for over 10years before the house of cards came crashing down DESPITE a far better and stringent regime of testing in place.
Secondly cases which could have really been brought to the public foray and further investigation taken place off the back of them in the last few years (Henderson springs to mind) have been downplayed by the powers that be and their implications on a wider picture firmly kept under a lid by those who could have reported them far differently.
You're quite possibly right, in the end, a day of reckoning might well be the way most things end up but this isn't that day given the way things are currently run - might be a dawn but daybreak is a long way off.
Finally my assertion that we will be left with a barren trainer landscape isn't based on the fact that the top trainers aren't the top trainers because they are the best - they are up there because they are but by nature of the way things have evolved...it's extremely unlikely based on nothing other than common sense given what happens in the US, in Australia and the often completely sudden unexplainable improved performances in the efforts of horses in this country on a frequent basis, that elements of the way horses are trained in those mentioned jurisdictions haven't infiltrated the sport in this country.
I apologise for sounding condescending but when you consider that article as well as some of the other points I do find it very surprising that anyone can be shocked by this.
Lots of racing today so got to get back to my form studies so shan't post further, good luck to all.
From your post you seem like a smart and considered bloke - let me pose the following to you.
Read this article first before reading the rest of my post.
http://www.drf.com/news/super-trainers-make-game-harder-ever
Now that article relates to racing in a different country. However the correlation to that country and this country's racing is as follows: Big prize money, prestige and pressure to win horse races.
In Australia the use of AB's is legal (that is another massive racing jurisdiction).
Having read the above article and being made aware of Australia's drug policy: Do you honestly believe in a sport where races are worth hundreds of thousands of pounds in this country, where livelyhoods and careers are on the line, where pressure is on a trainer to produce for his owners, family, reputation - that plenty of them won't seek to find an edge?
Notice I never said the use of steroids when making my post - I said the use of 'banned substances' in whatever shape or form they might be.
Why don't they get caught? Because they are a step ahead to start with and because the system currently in place to catch abusers is simply not stringent, well funded or expansive enough. It happened in cycling for over 10years before the house of cards came crashing down DESPITE a far better and stringent regime of testing in place.
Secondly cases which could have really been brought to the public foray and further investigation taken place off the back of them in the last few years (Henderson springs to mind) have been downplayed by the powers that be and their implications on a wider picture firmly kept under a lid by those who could have reported them far differently.
You're quite possibly right, in the end, a day of reckoning might well be the way most things end up but this isn't that day given the way things are currently run - might be a dawn but daybreak is a long way off.
Finally my assertion that we will be left with a barren trainer landscape isn't based on the fact that the top trainers aren't the top trainers because they are the best - they are up there because they are but by nature of the way things have evolved...it's extremely unlikely based on nothing other than common sense given what happens in the US, in Australia and the often completely sudden unexplainable improved performances in the efforts of horses in this country on a frequent basis, that elements of the way horses are trained in those mentioned jurisdictions haven't infiltrated the sport in this country.
I apologise for sounding condescending but when you consider that article as well as some of the other points I do find it very surprising that anyone can be shocked by this.
Lots of racing today so got to get back to my form studies so shan't post further, good luck to all.
Thanks for the considered reply studious_1. I posted on this topic on a thread on the Irish forum so I'll try not to repeat myself in my views.
Your claims are simply conjecture yet most will believe they have some if not a lot of truth. I pose this question: if the use of banned substances is widespread why have Godolphin had such a lousy time of it for over 10 years now? From the days of the Racing Post predicting that Sheikh Mo & Co would win every stakes race in Britain they have been a hopeless outfit in recent years given the scale of their investment. They are still forced to buy the top stallion prospects and this is gross ineptitude and has no link with "super training", banned substances or not.
I believe that pedigree (and a sizeable fortune)counts for a huge amount in flat racing and its why the Aga, Ballydoyle, Abdullah et al are pre-dominant at the game. We are all aware of rumours and so-called "needle-men" with mysterious reputations and who knows what truth is behind these rumours.
Jurisdictions outside GB and Ireland have allowed "legal" medication for some time and this, in my view, has led to a downgrading of US racing and breeding in particular and fears that the inherent soundness of an American-bred is diminishing is borne out by Keeneland and Fasig Tipton being far less prominent than in the past. Keeping racing clean over here contributes to this. Paradoxically, I don't get the sense that Australia has fears over all these steroids they use but they may well be storing up future problems as the Aussie racing scene, globally, is just a child.
I don't follow British racing closely but I have to say that examples of super trainers in Ireland are rare unless the obvious cases of Ballydoyle and Mullins are looked at. Mullins did produce some spectacular improvers a season or two back that caused a lot of comment about being a "genius" but recent examples don't readily spring to mind.
Your claims are simply conjecture yet most will believe they have some if not a lot of truth. I pose this question: if the use of banned substances is widespread why have Godolphin had such a lousy time of it for over 10 years now? From the days of the Racing Post predicting that Sheikh Mo & Co would win every stakes race in Britain they have been a hopeless outfit in recent years given the scale of their investment. They are still forced to buy the top stallion prospects and this is gross ineptitude and has no link with "super training", banned substances or not.
I believe that pedigree (and a sizeable fortune)counts for a huge amount in flat racing and its why the Aga, Ballydoyle, Abdullah et al are pre-dominant at the game. We are all aware of rumours and so-called "needle-men" with mysterious reputations and who knows what truth is behind these rumours.
Jurisdictions outside GB and Ireland have allowed "legal" medication for some time and this, in my view, has led to a downgrading of US racing and breeding in particular and fears that the inherent soundness of an American-bred is diminishing is borne out by Keeneland and Fasig Tipton being far less prominent than in the past. Keeping racing clean over here contributes to this. Paradoxically, I don't get the sense that Australia has fears over all these steroids they use but they may well be storing up future problems as the Aussie racing scene, globally, is just a child.
I don't follow British racing closely but I have to say that examples of super trainers in Ireland are rare unless the obvious cases of Ballydoyle and Mullins are looked at. Mullins did produce some spectacular improvers a season or two back that caused a lot of comment about being a "genius" but recent examples don't readily spring to mind.
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