mark johnston the new barney curley

please behave

barneys drifters never won.
with mj, the market never seems to know, the drifters win, the shortners lose

MJ is a hundred times worse than Barney...MJ has had more non-triers in the last week than Barney ever had.

Rancid outfit

a trainer that has 200 winners a year ... actually has non triers ... really ... i think its more to do with that all his horses like paul nichols horses are over bet ... do what most do when a barney curley horse in the raceleave the race alone why give yourself the angst ...

He has so many horses in his stables it is getting to the point that I am not sure he knows what is going off with all his animals.

I was at Redcar yesterday and without going into details I am convinced that the horse was expected to run a very big race - it was beaten before halfway which clearly had nothing to do with his opening mark .....

The horse I am referring to is Tribal Path - apologies

yes, good point crepello : I thought it looked like it was expected yesterday that Tribal path too (didn't bet it).

crepello ..... i so like your name ... im seriously impressed with your choice .

he does have so very many horses doesn't he - others must have a big hand, if not a leading hand, in decideing which horses are off and which are not.

He may just sit inside a big house drinking whiskey and admiring his view all day - who knows

i suggest you simply go to the races ,,, watch the way these horses are handled how they are cosseted how good they look ,,, i have friends who train horses and i can assure you most trainers are interested in one thing ... ie training winners ... theres no milage in running them to lose ...horses do run badly for no special reason just like occasionally they surprise and win ,The game is a heady mix of hope ,as well as dissapointments .it has destroyed people as well as made people rich .If you let the idea of the games bent in every way then its a recipe for disaster ,,, like the mad scotsman in dads army you are dooooooomed .read the poem IF by kipling ... if you dont understand the point it makes your in for a huge dissapointment over the rest of your punting life

barney wears cling film.....mj wears camouflage army gear

yes desperate he does have huge quantities of horses ,,,, might that be because after a small start years ago he trained winners which he did ,,,, and not for the arabs they joined much later .... i always remember his wife at my local track being in the tote line putting a tenner on CAN CAN CHARLIE ... which was at about 33 to one in the last race at carlisle ... it won ... i actually said to her i wish you luck she smiled and said we are hopeful ... but then again she said we are always hopeful about our horses ... she doesnt seem to have changed at least in the few times ive met her since

The whole point is to make sure backers and layers are put off the trail.A very clever outfit who know how to use the market to put up smoke screens.The last thing they want is everybody jumping on the gambles and lays,taking some of their cream.Makes Barney look like a small time amateur.

Look out for a complicit racing media repeating the same old line about how tough and always trying his horses are the next time he has a winner.

kemo sabe     Joined: 13 Sep 03
Replies: 267 16 Apr 13 14:52 
crepello ..... i so like your name ... im seriously impressed with your choice .

Thanks kemo sabe - I think he would have been a marvellous champion had he not had such fragile front legs.

It is good that there are some on here who remember the horse ....

At least, I hope that is what you are referring to!!

it was meant with the best thoughts ,,, i do remember pics of it sluicing up prob in black and white .

well striding edge .... incidently i drove past your name sake in the lakes two days ago .... i think you might just might have the answer ... it might also explain the occasional sudden improvement some of his horses the next time they run ... always greeted by the comentators line ... mark john ... hes always prepared to excuse one bad run ....but your words do make a lot of sense ...

Wonder how one would fare long term just betting MJ horses that are 10/1 and over?

and laying his runners 6/4 and less?

I think the answer is a lot simpler.Sometimes they are at peak fitness and other times they are not.......when required!!!

you used to be able to set the time of day when mark johnston sent his horses to the all weather , turning up with the sheikh's costly buys and winning at will , now the same purchases are likely to start odds on and run as if they have never had a saddle on before.  as pointed out they are not machines and can run below par but far to many are being beaten out of sight even the well backed one's for the stewards not to occasionally ask him in  but nothing is ever said

"Nothing is said" probably because the stewards understand the stable better than you do......However they run ......ALWAYS TRYING.

If you dont understand this then the game is not for you.

The OP has the brain power of a Rocking Horse.

What's the stats for MJ odds on shots winning over the last 5 seasons?

How any sane person could compare the utterly "rancid" running of BC's and MJ beggars belief.

I remember the old fart Gary on racing radio forever going on about how MJ's was a gambling yard, they have more than their fair share of odds on shots inexplicably beat.

Johnston doesn't even bet and wants racing to be without betting and totally unreliant on it.
Would have thought that Curley and Johnston are about as far apart as you can get.

likes a tilt at beverly, how many winners tomorrow?

Captain,
The MJ Yard are one of the most unfathomable outfits known to man.
However,their drifters frequently winn and their heavily punted lose.
Hardly the case with BC,was it.

that remark racing star reminds me so much of the capn blackadder seeing his judge comeinto court after saying only a mad man would convict him ....

Racingstar, I get the impression that the lads in the yard know the time of day, Barney only had a select few who knew, and of course he was on a whole different level to Johnston.

Captain,
If there is a single "Lad" in MJ's Yard that knows anything,he or she has yet to show their "colours".

Lest we forget G.Fairley was their stable jockey and I remember stories being told of no-one talking to him when he came back after one particular ill-fated gamble.

every one a few years ago perceived that david nicols the sprint king was having it off with his runners all over the place ... he played to this idea to a certain extent though there were never any great evidence of this in pre nor indeed post race interviews ... i well remember when his zuhair won a race at goodwood after winning earlier in the week ... the race was multiply entered with a handfull of his horses ... i sat behind his group of owners and Dandy ...i got the impression that each owner had backed their own horse and were a mixture of dissapointed yet pleased or at least seemed to be pleased at the others success .THE POINT BEING he had no idea which of his horses would win if he had why wdnt he have simply said to the whole lot bet zuhair .So there are truths in racing but the myth is far more endearing

Captain,
Every Yard has the odd "not off".MJ is no different
BC had the odd one "trying".
A World of difference.

he will have 3 winners tomorrow.

lets not forget the legend that is barney once said mrs thatcher said we must all help ourselves and after that race i did ....

split rock,arayal and sky train

your right about a world of difference , the vast majority of curleys did finish down the field but they were cast off's that he ran for himself and a gamble  , unlike johnston who is doing it with the sheikh's costly bred in the purple thoroughbred's

elusive hawk a gamble too far?

I don't know how anyone can read this yard...they win like Champions one outing.. tailed off in the next outing.. and happens on a regular basis.. I have never seen a yard that is so inconsistent with their runners..I for one cannot have this yard on my mind, and have had this view for the last few years.

Agree always completely with racing stars views here,However it was very easy to avoid races with Barney Curley etc runners.
The market consistently gets the Johnston's horses wrong,so don't think the stable lads have a clue.MJ despises punters.

So question for ye,what does one do when he has 1500 runners per season,can't avoid all those races-I know it's hard to generalise but what are people's approaches to his runners??

almost completely

stop trying to read them - wait until the race starts.  if they're leading after a furlong back them, if they're not switch over and watch something else for 5 minutes.

keep that to yourself though

I now only back MJ horses in the Summer when I spot  one winning up in trip and well in front of the Handicapper.
In running is the only other way as the Market is no guide.

hulk 23 , they are ok for 3 or 4 furlongs and look well up to the task but as soon as they are let down the game is up

disagree - of his last 39 runners only 9 tried to make all.
5 won (2/1, 7/1, 5/6, 4/7 & 5/2)
2 finished 2nd (9/2 & 8/1)
2 were well beaten (light rose and irish flame, although well beaten both traded well below bsp i/r)

is hes son head lad now l.o.l

so thanks hulk23 we at last get thefacts well done from your facts it makes my initial decision to simply leave the races where he has runners alone correct at least for me .

but he always trying pmsl at that

one of the best yards to follow once you get to grips with their methods....backing and laying machine

His newcomers , 2 or 3yo's either miss the break by 10 lengths or fly out the stalls liked seasoned sprinters , strange.

Mark Johnson is also a "top" vet. I would like to know what special feed he  uses for his horses. ( that's the key to his success of training many winners every year.

The whole point is to make sure backers and layers are put off the trail.A very clever outfit who know how to use the market to put up smoke screens.The last thing they want is everybody jumping on the gambles and lays,taking some of their cream.

Candidate for stupidest post ever?

Clever or clueless? Seemingly runs horses every other day with very little regard to ideal trip or ground.

The problem for the punter is the number of runners and consequently trying to steer clear.

Why is that Big Issue

WINNERS

and LOSERS

This thread I take it is about making a rather low brow opinion of a top class British Flat trainer by persons

that stumble over facts without ever knowing the reasons why certain trends occur within all Flat trainers performance

figures seasonally.

The biggest mistake taken by nearly all Gamblers that try and make a living from the betting of horses races is that they
dont alter thier game plan to fit in with the seasonal variations that affect all out door sports and not just horse racing though the effect is far greater at Turf horse racing than any other sport.

It simply isnt profitable to back Flat horses at the very start of the season as many horses haven't been running since last
october and those that have will be All Weather racers and this form doesn't always carry over to turf, in fact some horses never win or even place on turf and seem only to prefer the dirt racing.

However if you consider that this time of year is so bad then why not consider laying horses for the first couple of months as many opportunities arise for short priced runners that simply dont transfer the form from 5 months prior to the race day and marking paper favs that are based on this rather poor profile will make a profit if layed.

When the going gets tough seasonally then think like the Industry bookmakers and when the racing  is sweet

then you dare to be a backer at the right odds

Mark Johnston is a good trainer who has lost his way.

It simply isnt profitable to back Flat horses at the very start of the season,   on any other time of the year when following your latest plan/folly

Some trainers have there horses forward for the start of the flat season and some trainers don't get "going" till June. example Jack Berry always had his horses ready early on, and Mr Prescott later on.Try following Hannon, who has over 250 horses, now there's a problem

Candidate for stupidest post ever?

To think that a trainer with 200 or so horses, does so primarily to manipulate markets for betting/laying purposes

Try betting his horses on a prize money basis.....the bigger the prize money especially in handicaps.

Gambling does not dictate this yards policy....prize money is the yardstick.

and to compare MJ with BC you have got to have a screw loose......stupidest comment.

Big  issue if the facts slap you round the face day after day  you sometimes have to start questioning what people with a vested interest are training you to think.

So your argument is that because he has a large string of horses,he is not involved In gambling.So does that transfer to other areas of life.In your naive  little world......do government leaders around the world always act honestly because they are not concerned with extras freely available.,are banks always honest and transparent because they are massive organisation.what  about massive football clubs in Italy,the EU.our biggest electricity supplier etc etc.How large or wealthy you are has nothing to do with anyrhing.

As for the most stupid post you have ever read on here.....If someone wants to say lay a horse.When the worthwhile money is available  close to the off you put up a spread of lays(or back other horses) initially for say a grand.Then because bookmakers,professionals and every other punter on the exchange knows what's going on.The horse doesn't just gently drift from say 6s to 7s,momentum starts and before you have even layed your grand it is heading out to 12s and beyond because everyone knows what's going on.Prime example of this is B Curleys horses.So to get rid of these freeloaders you have throw in a big price winning lay(or frequent losing backed horses)every now and again.laying would be virtually impossible if everyone can read what you are doing.

good post toronto : how naive to think that people/organisations that are massively successful no longer grubby themselves with cheats and dodges

when your as successful as say MJ tou can take a back seat in your own organisation , if you have trusted underlings.   For example, MJ may take the attitude that his team can 'fiddle about'/'have a little fun with..'  the runners in the little races - but go all out to score in the big races

Ps.....to do this you can manipulate the market by losing smaller amounts to win larger amounts later,once you are able to persuade punters something is going to happen ,you can sit back and watch momentum take over.Put out on the information grapevine false messages,put on bets with bookmakers on say a horse not off etc.
Another master of this is "the greatest jockey" outfit.

yes, 100%.   market manipulation is ALL, once you can do it.

Yes good post toronto... The last 4 runners from the yard have all shortened in the market, some of them quite significantly, and have all been beat miles out. The stable can't be that bad at knowing if their horses are ready to run a good race.

^ Confused conspiracy enthusiasts sat in their underpants IMHO

johnston to start rolling now its beverley time

No your wrong Big Issue..It's you're birds underwear I'm wearing

if they're race fit they can do that!

Beverley time

cheers nellie...lager time.

Poor big Issue.....The old USSR used to call people like him "useful idiots".

No mate..... there really are some people out there who will take large amounts of money available with virtually no risk.Corruption is rife even when the risks of getting cought are large.So why in an industry that revolves around gambling do you expect everyone to be saints.Some people should not be let out on their own.

So if they drift and lose, it's rancid. If they shorten and lose, it's rancid.

Thinly veiled "I am a layer and fear M Johnson in his new turf campaign" and disregard this trainer at your peril

Ramruna i don't think you have understood the points made.

Headline today in Daily Telegraph today......"EU losing 4 billion of taxpayers cash to fraud every year"

But of course racing is above all that sort of stuff.Must be true because the racing media and authorities tell us it is !!!!!

toronto44, pack in mate, this games's not for you, they all fiddling you say and you can't possibly win so why bother?

MJ has 200 + horses.

Must be a nightmare placing them all and keeping all the owners happy.

I would bet that half the time he really hasn't a clue how the horse will run!

In 90% of group, class 1 races on the flat horses are trying to win mainly for (black type) and breeding purposes, that's why my maximum bets are always in these kind of races.

(Foot Note) Mr Barney Curley as contributed a lot of his winnings to numerous charity's over the years, its about time he was Knighted.

Toronto with your particular attitude to racing you can not ever possibly have a bet,because someone somewhere is conspiring to do you out of your hard earned,if its not the trainer then its his stable staff or the jockey or the stable cat.
If you believe what you are preaching,which,is pure conspiracy theory, then you must be stupid if you have a bet.

spot on smartpunter

No surprise to get the same idiot response that is always posted    by the simple minded like BI...why dont you pack up the game then.Have you ever had an original thought in your life or not parroted someone elses. So any critic of anything should just give up what he is critical of then BC,is that your pearl of wisdom for the day...you thick s hite.Cue his next spark of original genius...that i must be talking through my pocket

As for Tele he has just repeated Bcs point 3 posts ago.Dumb leading the even dumber.

No points answered thrn,just five year old...if you dont like it dont play then.

Just go on believing in fairies and hobgoblins,no doubt you both win bundles with your unquestioning gullibility.

Toronto can you not appreciate the irony of you using the word "gullibility" to describe someone else,when you have advanced a litany of conspiracy theories to prop up a viewpoint

Assuming he has 200 horses and works 60 hours a week with 75% on course or on the gallops, that leaves 15 hours for race and campaign planning.

That works out about 4mins 30secs per horse.  Judging by his scatter-gun and arbitrary approach, that seems about right for him.