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dear sir, i opened an online account with you approx couple of months ago, i was tempted by the nice offers you promoted as 50 quid free bet if your horse doesnt run in national etc, plus 10 quid free bet if you back a losing correct score, you know the stuff im talking about im sure. im not a professional gambler, ive never had a race tip in my life, i know noone connected in the game, but i do like a bet. ive lost thousands over the years but now try and be more disciplined in my betting and of course do use betfair. Anyhow my bets with you for the first few weeks were nearly all losers i probably lost a grand , but last week i noticed a race from ireland a listed race and obrien had a runner who had contested a group1 race last season, i backed him with you at something like 6/4 and put my bet on, youre notice accepted the bet 300 quid at 13/8, this horse was backed down to odds on especially when the 2 or 3rd in the betting was withdrawn, after few minutes i did decide to lay my horse on here and guarantee a profit, i admit it, ive did nothing wrong all above board, anyway it won and i made some money. again last week another 4 runner race maiden in ireland i backed the 2nd fav at 9/4 for 300 quid, surprise you offered me 5/2, this horse went into 15/8 , and again i made a profit by laying on here, the horse i think started 2/1 and won. i won from you approx a grand over the week, then yesterday i went online, couldnt so phoned your staff up, i was told the traders have decided to close your account. may i ask why, did i back a horse with you at longer than betfair were going to guarantee an arb, no all i did was back a horse that i assumed might go shorter in the obrien case. and may i add ill probably see you on tv at royal ascot ive layed so ans so to lose a million
. ps this isnt solely directed at you mr chandler, its to all you bookies out there. yours sincerely elisjohn, ,
. ps this isnt solely directed at you mr chandler, its to all you bookies out there. yours sincerely elisjohn, ,
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nothing to learn, there the facts artie.
If you have say 20 online accounts with all the bookies and are very price sensitive you will also be assumed to be an arber. Because you will generally only put a bet on with that particular bookmaker when it is most likely an arb situation.
You therefore have no loyalty to the bookmaker and don't place enough bets to be considered a regular punter.
No point whinging about it and come here moaning. Ive had this account closed, that account closed blah blah blah.
IdKW a bookie will put up a price that they do want to lay it, but not to the arbers who use all that price up. The bookie wants to lay those prices to "regular" customers, and surely you know why.
and idkw you can always put the bets on here, or is the fact you carnt get on when its an arb!
If you have say 20 online accounts with all the bookies and are very price sensitive you will also be assumed to be an arber. Because you will generally only put a bet on with that particular bookmaker when it is most likely an arb situation.
You therefore have no loyalty to the bookmaker and don't place enough bets to be considered a regular punter.
No point whinging about it and come here moaning. Ive had this account closed, that account closed blah blah blah.
IdKW a bookie will put up a price that they do want to lay it, but not to the arbers who use all that price up. The bookie wants to lay those prices to "regular" customers, and surely you know why.
and idkw you can always put the bets on here, or is the fact you carnt get on when its an arb!
rcing- if the bookmaker was just intrested in laying at that price only then they could have used here for the bet anyway.
These prices can be used as advertising, also to keep "loyal" customers with them, get those customers who take that price to have a few other bets when on the site or in the shop. so no they don't want to use the liability they have set for that price to arbers, who all rush to get as much as they can on for a free lay on here.
These prices can be used as advertising, also to keep "loyal" customers with them, get those customers who take that price to have a few other bets when on the site or in the shop. so no they don't want to use the liability they have set for that price to arbers, who all rush to get as much as they can on for a free lay on here.
rcing- if the bookmaker was just intrested in laying at that price only then they could have used here for the bet anyway
so no they don't want to use the liability they have set for that price to arbers, who all rush to get as much as they can on for a free lay on here
if a bookmaker can lay at that price on here , how is an arb available then ?
i dont get it , but , i dont really care as it doesn't affect me
good luck all
so no they don't want to use the liability they have set for that price to arbers, who all rush to get as much as they can on for a free lay on here
if a bookmaker can lay at that price on here , how is an arb available then ?
i dont get it , but , i dont really care as it doesn't affect me
good luck all
rcing-because the prices mentioned are arbs.
henceif bookie offers 2/1 it means punters on here wanting to back at say 7/4.
So the bookie could have just layed the 7/4 if they wanted.
But they want to ffer 2/1 for a variety of reasons mentioned above. (this is the point the arbers rush in trying to get the 2/1 so they can lay the 7/4) and then whinge about not being able to get on.
henceif bookie offers 2/1 it means punters on here wanting to back at say 7/4.
So the bookie could have just layed the 7/4 if they wanted.
But they want to ffer 2/1 for a variety of reasons mentioned above. (this is the point the arbers rush in trying to get the 2/1 so they can lay the 7/4) and then whinge about not being able to get on.
Two Points:
'You are an arber' is just a cynical and thoroughly disingenuous bookmaking industry PR diversion to convince woefully out of touch media idiots, like the current editor of a publication that will remain nameless, that it's only arbers that get restricted or closed, not genuine punters. This, obviously, is a total lie.
Secondly, why do the arbs exist on here in the first place? Unequivocally, imo, it's because the bookmaking industry refuse to honour their prices without discriminating - if they actually laid their prices, no one would ever have to ask for unders on here, and there would be no arbs...
'You are an arber' is just a cynical and thoroughly disingenuous bookmaking industry PR diversion to convince woefully out of touch media idiots, like the current editor of a publication that will remain nameless, that it's only arbers that get restricted or closed, not genuine punters. This, obviously, is a total lie.
Secondly, why do the arbs exist on here in the first place? Unequivocally, imo, it's because the bookmaking industry refuse to honour their prices without discriminating - if they actually laid their prices, no one would ever have to ask for unders on here, and there would be no arbs...
I am restricted to bugger all with Skybet, boyles, laddies, Fred, sporting bet, corals ( think I can get a bet to win £2/300). I was winning 1-4k with each but not shrewd as I am not disciplined enough. There is little science in the restrictions cause I am losing or small winner with others, for me pp and hills at least see that there is a mixture of warm and "interest" business, probably feel they will beat me in the long term. It tells me that the level of analysis that goes into restrictions is pretty arbitrary, which is not good for their business or punters...arbing certainly does seem to be an bookmaker obsession and is used to tar plenty who are not at that game.
But what can be done?
But what can be done?
Gilzean, they are just trawling for losers - there's nothing else...
Maleuk listen hard.ALL BOOKMAKERS OPERATE A "MUGS ONLY" POLICY. IF YOU SHOW THE SLIGHTEST BETTING SKILL OR KNOWLEDGE, YOU'RE OUT. Nothing to do with arbing.
millhouse I accept some regular punters will get account restrictions. But I also bet they are the extremely price sensitive punters who can easily be mistaken for arbers.
you never see, I only use here and bookmaker x and they closed me down. Its always a long list of bookies such as the post above, which indicates arbs are very price sensitive punters, and as far as a bookmaker is concerned they can be lumped together as punters they do not want.
you never see, I only use here and bookmaker x and they closed me down. Its always a long list of bookies such as the post above, which indicates arbs are very price sensitive punters, and as far as a bookmaker is concerned they can be lumped together as punters they do not want.
Artie 100% right, but the bookmaker PR frauds are being paid to continually whisper 'arbers only' into the ears of industry media simpletons...
The fact that NO-ONE, but NO-ONE in the racing media wants to bring this subject up doesn't bode well for the future.
Mellish and Dixon were discussing the "problems of getting on" a couple of nights ago on RUK. I would bet my bo**ocks that neither of that pair experience anywhere near the "problems" that the rest of us have to deal with day in day out.
If only RUK would deal with this issue.
But no they won't will they......they been bought off by the bookies, in spite of it being funded primarily by its viewers.
Mellish and Dixon were discussing the "problems of getting on" a couple of nights ago on RUK. I would bet my bo**ocks that neither of that pair experience anywhere near the "problems" that the rest of us have to deal with day in day out.
If only RUK would deal with this issue.
But no they won't will they......they been bought off by the bookies, in spite of it being funded primarily by its viewers.
artie I wouldn't say that, im sure some bookmakers even like a few very knowledgable punters in particular fields of expertise.
Cause as soon as they place their bets the bookie can go short on the odds for that selection. Well that's what I would do as a bookie
Cause as soon as they place their bets the bookie can go short on the odds for that selection. Well that's what I would do as a bookie
maleuk01 - Shopping around for best price - not allowed.
Beating SP - not allowed.
Backing a horse that is not bigger on here - not allowed.
Backing a horse that subsequently shortens - not allowed.
Showing behaviour likely to lead to winning - not allowed.
Winning - not allowed.
However you want to slice it up, the bookmaking industry are trawling for losing punters, and if you don't show them that you are going to lose in the long term, you won't be able to continue to bet.
Unless you are a complicit media freeloader, there's nothing else....
Beating SP - not allowed.
Backing a horse that is not bigger on here - not allowed.
Backing a horse that subsequently shortens - not allowed.
Showing behaviour likely to lead to winning - not allowed.
Winning - not allowed.
However you want to slice it up, the bookmaking industry are trawling for losing punters, and if you don't show them that you are going to lose in the long term, you won't be able to continue to bet.
Unless you are a complicit media freeloader, there's nothing else....
millhouse of course bookmakers are trawling for losing punters, there the best customers.
However if you bet regularly with a bookie and at prices which are available in a few other places why would they restrict you? they could always lay the bets off elsewhere for a no win or loss situation to themselves, and could even use that information (if your a very knowledgable punter) to their advantage for cutting the price.
The reality is price sensitive punters and arbers are both put in the same bracket as far as a bookie is concerned and you can see why.
However if you bet regularly with a bookie and at prices which are available in a few other places why would they restrict you? they could always lay the bets off elsewhere for a no win or loss situation to themselves, and could even use that information (if your a very knowledgable punter) to their advantage for cutting the price.
The reality is price sensitive punters and arbers are both put in the same bracket as far as a bookie is concerned and you can see why.
maleuk, ive been restricted to 30p on 33/1 shots ante post bets while there 200/1 on here, exactly why restrict a bet like that , its madness.and before you ask why put it on with bookies then, I didn't I wanted to see what bet maximum I would get off them
I'm surprised that anyone is surprised by all this.
maleuk, ive been restricted to 30p on 33/1 shots ante post bets while there 200/1 on here, exactly why restrict a bet like that
Because once you are marked down as not being a mug it is too much hassle and cost to consider every bet on an individual basis. Far more cost effective to just knock you back on everything.
maleuk, ive been restricted to 30p on 33/1 shots ante post bets while there 200/1 on here, exactly why restrict a bet like that
Because once you are marked down as not being a mug it is too much hassle and cost to consider every bet on an individual basis. Far more cost effective to just knock you back on everything.
millhouse - if you're a good gambler or an arber you will get passed on like a hot potato.
The only point of these threads is for people to convince themselves that they are good gamblers, not arbers, "never arbed in their lives." You certainly won't legislate for binding bookies to a price on a forum of an exchange where the price is never fixed.
There is no bet unless both parties agree. If Victor Chandler decided to bet only with Lucien Freud, that's his prerogative.
The reason why backers are prepared to take shorter prices on the exchange rather than a bookie is profit.
The only point of these threads is for people to convince themselves that they are good gamblers, not arbers, "never arbed in their lives." You certainly won't legislate for binding bookies to a price on a forum of an exchange where the price is never fixed.
There is no bet unless both parties agree. If Victor Chandler decided to bet only with Lucien Freud, that's his prerogative.
The reason why backers are prepared to take shorter prices on the exchange rather than a bookie is profit.
elisjohn- simple question, why did you try and take 33/1 when 200/1 is available here?
and as your 2nd part you didn't try to put the bet on you weren't restricted where you.
and as your 2nd part you didn't try to put the bet on you weren't restricted where you.
don't get me wrong im not saying bookies are perfect and aren't scared of their own shadow some of them.
But the vast majority on here whinging and moaning are simple filthy arbers who just want free money. You can see a list as long as your arm all the bookies who have closed/restricted accounts, its never I only ever used them and maybe 1 other if their price was crap. And in those instances you can see why bookies close these accounts.
But the vast majority on here whinging and moaning are simple filthy arbers who just want free money. You can see a list as long as your arm all the bookies who have closed/restricted accounts, its never I only ever used them and maybe 1 other if their price was crap. And in those instances you can see why bookies close these accounts.
maleuk01,
before Betfair ever came along I had ALL my accounts closed, bar Ladcrooks who 'managed my account'.
Arbors hadn't been invented by bookmaker media mouths back then.
They had to admit that they didn't want winning punters. FACT.
They are pulling the wool over the industry media's eyes (especially yours) with their pitiful excuse.
before Betfair ever came along I had ALL my accounts closed, bar Ladcrooks who 'managed my account'.
Arbors hadn't been invented by bookmaker media mouths back then.
They had to admit that they didn't want winning punters. FACT.
They are pulling the wool over the industry media's eyes (especially yours) with their pitiful excuse.
maleuk01, I don't have a problem with bookmakers restricting or closing punters - it's a business, and even if their commercial policies are morally questionable, if they are within the law then OK.
What I do have a problem with is the bookmaking industry presenting themselves as doing business in the absolute opposite manner, and paying the media platforms and the worthless freeloaders who work for them to assist in this deception, in what is little short of institutionalised fraud...
What I do have a problem with is the bookmaking industry presenting themselves as doing business in the absolute opposite manner, and paying the media platforms and the worthless freeloaders who work for them to assist in this deception, in what is little short of institutionalised fraud...
elisjohn, I have no idea why you thought it would be a good idea to mention that you laid off on BF (unless you want to impress with your shrewdness) when it is completely irrelevant to the point you are trying to make to VC.
im usually allowed to win £30 with 365 on all sport and race horses , but im allowed to have a £ 200 bet with them every minute on virtual racing, honest.
if I was the bookie loper I would have kept you and used you wise wisdom and knowledge to my benefit
and fair enough you can have a rightful whinge and moan, but all the others are whinging post betfair/exchanges, and we all know the real reason why (bar a small few exceptions)
and fair enough you can have a rightful whinge and moan, but all the others are whinging post betfair/exchanges, and we all know the real reason why (bar a small few exceptions)
You mean you actually have 200 quid bets "every two minutes on virtual racing"? Mug
maleuk01, you either work in the bookmaking industry or you are a perfect example of why bookmakers spend so much money on PR misdirection, imo...
maleuk - the collective ego of the moaners on these threads will puff you up to a bookmaking rep at least, they deem their complaints so important.
In the case of Millhouse, he thought I was Fred Done!!
In the case of Millhouse, he thought I was Fred Done!!
just got in reading through the threads re vc, I remember reading a few years ago how in vc's boardroom the meeting couldn't start cause the boss wasn't there, then a guy said its ok he's just arrived low and behold the door opens and Mr T walks in.
What amazes me about this fiasco is that people like maleuk01 actual believe the bookmaker propaganda.
If everybody is arbing away to their hearts content who the **** is matching their requests.
I gave up trying to back horses on Betfair in 2003. At least there was some liquidity in the markets then.
There's phuuck all now.
How can these arbers be filling their stomachs with only a pittance left to scramble over?
.
If everybody is arbing away to their hearts content who the **** is matching their requests.
I gave up trying to back horses on Betfair in 2003. At least there was some liquidity in the markets then.
There's phuuck all now.
How can these arbers be filling their stomachs with only a pittance left to scramble over?
.
IDKW 09 Aug 13 16:15 Joined: 19 Nov 09 | Topic/replies: 1,090 | Blogger: IDKW's blog
A good example of bookies with no bo**ocks here.
Ive just tried to place £150 Dancing Primo @ 7/2 with Joke Orals.
4.6 to back on here to £39..............no liqidity BUT NO ARB.
Offered £20.......The game is a fkn joke.
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This sh1te is happening every minute of the day, the horse was 4.6 it traded over 5 most of the pre-race show, it retuned 4.8 and 7/2 industry and gets stuffed , the nerds who are causing the limiting of such bets everyday are destroying the racing and betting intustry from the inside, WHY is this bet being limited, reason is that IDKW at least once in his life ( thats all it takes in my experience) beat the SP and the algorithms alerted the traders to take their ball home.
A good example of bookies with no bo**ocks here.
Ive just tried to place £150 Dancing Primo @ 7/2 with Joke Orals.
4.6 to back on here to £39..............no liqidity BUT NO ARB.
Offered £20.......The game is a fkn joke.
Rate reply:
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This sh1te is happening every minute of the day, the horse was 4.6 it traded over 5 most of the pre-race show, it retuned 4.8 and 7/2 industry and gets stuffed , the nerds who are causing the limiting of such bets everyday are destroying the racing and betting intustry from the inside, WHY is this bet being limited, reason is that IDKW at least once in his life ( thats all it takes in my experience) beat the SP and the algorithms alerted the traders to take their ball home.
I have never had this problem, but ellissjohn has been around fora while and cant ever remember him making a fuss about this thing before. So maybe, I do tend to empty and close my account after every big successful bet and hunt arround for offers cos they only retain yer details for 3 -5 years. so if yer patient. Is bog I go online for its v hard to get up here in scotland cos there is only scotbeat. Paddy power used to be really good but not so much recently and they have started to limit me to £50 quid, but i used them mostly for sports betting rather than horses. took a small fortune off em at Wimbledon, but its not like they didnt have that coming with their offer. my usual bets arent that big max bet usually during week it 50 e/w or a ton , but i dont back many 6/4 shots if i go short its got to be hotpants...and its got to hurt real bad if it loses. Everything else either wins or loses at a price and usually for the same steak.
didn't I read few weeks back that bookies now want everyone that want a decent bet on in bookies to have to show id, is this really another plan of theirs to find out the identity of us that's been restricted online/phone to stop us in the shops
didn't I read few weeks back that bookies now want everyone that want a decent bet on in bookies to have to show id, is this really another plan of theirs to find out the identity of us that's been restricted online/phone to stop us in the shops
I think that is because of the impending new money laundering directive which is coming from Europe. It will be like casinos where they have to have ID for wins/losses over a certain amount.
I imagine it is the last thing that the bookmakers want to do.
I think that is because of the impending new money laundering directive which is coming from Europe. It will be like casinos where they have to have ID for wins/losses over a certain amount.
I imagine it is the last thing that the bookmakers want to do.
I got knocked back by VC in 1983. He was a shifty eyed cold fish on the rails then. To be fair, he gave me the creeps. Yes, he wanted to bet with people who would lose or provide him with information he did not know. You have to come up to him with a bit more to offer than the current price on betfair. Get over it.
When he closed my account I approached him on the racecourse and asked him why.
He said it's simple, you cost me money. I cant lay off your bets.
At that time another punter that I used to go racing with provided him with information from certain yards. Victor didn't restrict him!
Eventually, when the said stables went on a particularly bad run he had nothing to fall back on and started to do his bollocks to Victor. Owing him a lot of money this guy had a massive accumulator with Victor which he accepted despite the massive minus figure on his account.
needless to say, said bet failed and Victor never collected. The guy disappeared abroad but Victor didn't worry because he'd taken plenty of money and info from the guy.
He said it's simple, you cost me money. I cant lay off your bets.
At that time another punter that I used to go racing with provided him with information from certain yards. Victor didn't restrict him!
Eventually, when the said stables went on a particularly bad run he had nothing to fall back on and started to do his bollocks to Victor. Owing him a lot of money this guy had a massive accumulator with Victor which he accepted despite the massive minus figure on his account.
needless to say, said bet failed and Victor never collected. The guy disappeared abroad but Victor didn't worry because he'd taken plenty of money and info from the guy.
has there ever been a bookie that actually took bets and didn't hedge?
Of course they want to know who you are,notice the flood of cards the big books are offering mostly for the machines, trapped tagged and released back,the punters are doing it for them...
Finding out who you are on a voluntary basis is of course attractive to them.
Laws to make it mandatory most certainly is not. There are plenty of cash punters who would be scared away if it was mandatory.
Laws to make it mandatory most certainly is not. There are plenty of cash punters who would be scared away if it was mandatory.
8 weeks, £2,400 profit, account closed. Gambling on horses outside the exchanges has no future.
Dear Mr .......,
We are contacting you today to advise that a business decision has been taken by our Senior Traders and I must inform you that betting Account Number ....... has now been closed and no further business may be executed on your behalf.
The total balance of the Account £2400.70 is currently in the process of being paid back to Card ending 2742 and can take 3-6 working days to reflect on your banking statement.
The balance of this Account now stands at zero with no outstanding bets.
Please be advised that no bonuses will be payable on any previous activity on this account and any promotional balance in your account at the time of closure has been removed.
As explained in our Terms and Conditions, a Traders decision is final and will not be over turned. I have taken the liberty of copying this below.
BetVictor reserves the right to refuse the whole or any part of any bet request for any reason. Once a bet has been confirmed, it cannot be changed or voided other than in exceptional circumstances. We also reserve the right to close any account without obligation to state a reason.
We would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your past custom.
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind Regards,
Aldona
BetVictor Contact Centre.
Dear Mr .......,
We are contacting you today to advise that a business decision has been taken by our Senior Traders and I must inform you that betting Account Number ....... has now been closed and no further business may be executed on your behalf.
The total balance of the Account £2400.70 is currently in the process of being paid back to Card ending 2742 and can take 3-6 working days to reflect on your banking statement.
The balance of this Account now stands at zero with no outstanding bets.
Please be advised that no bonuses will be payable on any previous activity on this account and any promotional balance in your account at the time of closure has been removed.
As explained in our Terms and Conditions, a Traders decision is final and will not be over turned. I have taken the liberty of copying this below.
BetVictor reserves the right to refuse the whole or any part of any bet request for any reason. Once a bet has been confirmed, it cannot be changed or voided other than in exceptional circumstances. We also reserve the right to close any account without obligation to state a reason.
We would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your past custom.
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind Regards,
Aldona
BetVictor Contact Centre.
The running theme seems to be that BetVictor is more trigger-happy than the other bookies.
Ramruma, they are all exactly the same - there's no good ones...
Forgot to mention that it's taken 6 days to get my money back. When I deposited money it took a nano-second to arrive into Victor's wallet.
Wasn't his offices raided a while ago by the police/customs.?.
@millhouse -- they are not all exactly the same, even if they are all roughly the same. Victor seems to attract a disproportionate number of complaints about restrictions (including removing BOG from my own account) -- as I said, is more trigger-happy.
I had accounts with a few of the firms just doing my own stuff and was in profit with all , mainly sport golf , rugby , football etc .A few months back met an old mate who backs warm horses from 3 diff sources , veitch , mellish and the irish team , i put a few on for him , all shortened in betting but weren't winning , the accounts were losing but all got closed , it seems to me if youre a genuine punter they'll accept your bets even if your in front , but if you back anything warm or an arber you'll be sacked even if you lose .
" it seems to me if youre a genuine punter they'll accept your bets even if your in front "
Patches, that is so naive, but it doesn't surprise me as there are so many punters out there who just have no idea how these shysters operate.
Patches, that is so naive, but it doesn't surprise me as there are so many punters out there who just have no idea how these shysters operate.
Has this place still got there scam fixed odds ?,, i got banned after 8 bets due to winning 
..
Theres nolonger any bookmakers , just arcades all online scam casinos and fruit machines..
..Theres nolonger any bookmakers , just arcades all online scam casinos and fruit machines..
it seems to me if youre a genuine punter they'll accept your bets even if your in front
Since @patches was in front and not closed down, there must be an element of truth in what he says, though no doubt if he got too far in front and looked like staying there, his accounts may well have been reviewed.
Further evidence of this is that the @patches accounts were closed not because they were winning -- they were losing -- but (presumably) because it looked like he'd become a putter-onner.
Further evidence of this is that the @patches accounts were closed not because they were winning -- they were losing -- but (presumably) because it looked like he'd become a putter-onner.
Ramruma, unequivocally, there is no truth whatsoever in what he says.
You don't even have to win these days to be closed virtually immediately - you just have to look like you might do eventually.
If someone can still bet, it's because they are in a position to reveal the truth about the way the bookmakers really do business, or because the bookmakers think that person, rightly or wrongly, will lose in the long run.
There's nothing else...
You don't even have to win these days to be closed virtually immediately - you just have to look like you might do eventually.
If someone can still bet, it's because they are in a position to reveal the truth about the way the bookmakers really do business, or because the bookmakers think that person, rightly or wrongly, will lose in the long run.
There's nothing else...
I find it amusing that on V Chandlers adverts they say `please bet responsibly'...so i did ..and i got banned !!!
@millhouse -- you are right in the general case -- that bookies close down winners and court losers -- but spoil it by going OTT.
You don't even have to win these days to be closed virtually immediately - you just have to look like you might do eventually.
Right. So it is not winners that are the first and second targets, but arbers and putter-onners.
If someone can still bet, it's ... because the bookmakers think that person, rightly or wrongly, will lose in the long run.
Again, it is not winners that are the first and second targets, but arbers and putter-onners. Any bookmaker's computer system that can flag up correlations between bets in unrelated accounts or sudden increases in stakes when there is an arb on Betfair, could surely tell which accounts are in profit, and yet those accounts continue unmolested -- eg @patches'. Of course, you are probably right that restrictions will eventually be applied if the account is consistently profitable but there is enough evidence this is nowhere near bookmakers' first priority.
With the exception of dear old Victor who seems to take two winning bets inside a week as a personal affront.
You are doubtless right too in the bit I snipped:
If someone can still bet, it's because they are in a position to reveal the truth about the way the bookmakers really do business
Many years ago, I knew a chap who'd worked for years in Ladbrokes opposite SIS. After he left, he told me that all the SIS pundits were restricted (not banned, as ordinary winners would have been).
All except one, who could have as much on as he liked! So far as I know, he is no longer employed in a tipping capacity so it would be unfair to humiliate him (and his name might provoke the moderators to delete the thread).
You don't even have to win these days to be closed virtually immediately - you just have to look like you might do eventually.
Right. So it is not winners that are the first and second targets, but arbers and putter-onners.
If someone can still bet, it's ... because the bookmakers think that person, rightly or wrongly, will lose in the long run.
Again, it is not winners that are the first and second targets, but arbers and putter-onners. Any bookmaker's computer system that can flag up correlations between bets in unrelated accounts or sudden increases in stakes when there is an arb on Betfair, could surely tell which accounts are in profit, and yet those accounts continue unmolested -- eg @patches'. Of course, you are probably right that restrictions will eventually be applied if the account is consistently profitable but there is enough evidence this is nowhere near bookmakers' first priority.
With the exception of dear old Victor who seems to take two winning bets inside a week as a personal affront.
You are doubtless right too in the bit I snipped:
If someone can still bet, it's because they are in a position to reveal the truth about the way the bookmakers really do business
Many years ago, I knew a chap who'd worked for years in Ladbrokes opposite SIS. After he left, he told me that all the SIS pundits were restricted (not banned, as ordinary winners would have been).
All except one, who could have as much on as he liked! So far as I know, he is no longer employed in a tipping capacity so it would be unfair to humiliate him (and his name might provoke the moderators to delete the thread).
All bookmakers do not want winning punters - they only want persistant losers and all day betting shop punters - their main income now in betting shops is from the slots - restricted to 4 a shop so open new shops just to get more machines in them.
Ramruma, the assumptions you are making are in no way related to the facts, I'm sorry.
They don't conclude that certain types of winning punters can be kept on in the interests of fairness - everyone, repeat everyone, that even so much as shows behaviour likely to lead to winning, is excluded as quickly as possible.
The idea that it's 'arbers and putters on' who mostly get restricted and closed is laughable, and shows only the extent to which the bookmaking industry/Racing Post axis have succeeded in their 'arbers only' propaganda...
They don't conclude that certain types of winning punters can be kept on in the interests of fairness - everyone, repeat everyone, that even so much as shows behaviour likely to lead to winning, is excluded as quickly as possible.
The idea that it's 'arbers and putters on' who mostly get restricted and closed is laughable, and shows only the extent to which the bookmaking industry/Racing Post axis have succeeded in their 'arbers only' propaganda...
@millhouse -- I'm not saying genuine punters are kept for reason of fairness, but that hunting for them has a lower priority than arbers and putter-onners who hunt in packs and who are therefore (a) more likely to unbalance the books, and (b) easier to spot.
If genuine punter Fred has it off, he might be a long term winner or he might be a loser who got lucky. The questions for the bookie are where to draw the line and what is the burden of proof.
If genuine punter Fred has it off, he might be a long term winner or he might be a loser who got lucky. The questions for the bookie are where to draw the line and what is the burden of proof.
Anyone who looks like he might show a long term profit is booted out.I doubt there are "priorities".Bookmakers are there to fleece "mugs". Anyone else is got rid of.
ive got an acct with 365, restricted to peanuts but I still use it for the c4 offer, so tonight since ive got a few quid in the acct decided to put a bet on cricket, yes cricket the 5 test eng v aus at 9/4, around 3.45 on betfair on the draw so I decided to put the maximum on , they would only let me have 8.33 on.can anyone truethfully explain what common sense 365 have there, im not in the know. cant arb it etc, so they could have easily taken 1000 quid on it from me, and arb themselves.
We all know the games gone - thank God for BF - they even bought **** to limit their damage - slot machines and every race all day long mug punters welcome = anybody with half an idea f*** off
chandler is a gutless moron.not only do they close any account they deem may likely ever show a profit,they do it in the most disgusting manner without even bothering to inform the customer their account has been closed.they also deny access to the closed account so you cannot even log in to see past or open bets.
one day someone with a bit of guts , money and know how might well take these bookies to court.
by the way insideinfo, chandler isn't gutless, I read he stood a bet for a million at r ascot according to rishi persad
sure even if it was true it probbly wasnt chandlers money standing the bet...is there not a rather well known owner who owns a chunk of the business due to the fact victor owed him so much money he had to give him a stake in the company
Just to offer some perspective on how rancid the whole corrupt business is, here's professional tipster Richard Birch on his methodology when it comes to getting a bet on from a recent Get It Ready - clearly the rules for people working at the Racing Post are not the same as for the rest of us:
"ANOTHER year over, and what have you done?" Well, apart from switching radio stations every time I hear that song - am I the only one who has never liked John Lennon
Not a great deal has changed in my punting operation.
I still hold five telephone credit accounts - with bet365, BetVictor, Ladbrokes, Stan James and William Hill - and I still wager exclusively on horses, having stopped betting on greyhounds in June 2010 when realisation finally dawned that Wimbledon was going down the pan faster than the by-product of a late-night vindaloo
Some of those bookmakers pay my winnings directly into my bank account at the end of a fortnightly period; some send me a cheque. When I owe them money at the end of a 14-day spell, I immediately write them a cheque.
This process has always worked perfectly efficiently, and I see no reason to change.
I have never used a betting exchange, and still don't feel the inclination to.
"ANOTHER year over, and what have you done?" Well, apart from switching radio stations every time I hear that song - am I the only one who has never liked John Lennon
Not a great deal has changed in my punting operation.
I still hold five telephone credit accounts - with bet365, BetVictor, Ladbrokes, Stan James and William Hill - and I still wager exclusively on horses, having stopped betting on greyhounds in June 2010 when realisation finally dawned that Wimbledon was going down the pan faster than the by-product of a late-night vindaloo
Some of those bookmakers pay my winnings directly into my bank account at the end of a fortnightly period; some send me a cheque. When I owe them money at the end of a 14-day spell, I immediately write them a cheque.
This process has always worked perfectly efficiently, and I see no reason to change.
I have never used a betting exchange, and still don't feel the inclination to.
The likes of Birch, Freemantle, McGrath, Mellish, Cunningham, etc do not bet in the real world.
If their "privileges" were taken away, maybe one of them would have the bo**ocks to highlight the ever growing problem of getting just a reasonable bet on.
If their "privileges" were taken away, maybe one of them would have the bo**ocks to highlight the ever growing problem of getting just a reasonable bet on.
'Sir Tom', incidentally, doesn't ever use exchanges either, apparently IDKW, he 'prefers to use bookmakers', happily getting his bets laid while the the people following his tips get restricted and shut down all over the place...
Aug 13, 2013 -- 8:04PM, elisjohn wrote:
ive got an acct with 365, restricted to peanuts but I still use it for the c4 offer, so tonight since ive got a few quid in the acct decided to put a bet on cricket, yes cricket the 5 test eng v aus at 9/4, around 3.45 on betfair on the draw so I decided to put the maximum on , they would only let me have 8.33 on.can anyone truethfully explain what common sense 365 have there, im not in the know. cant arb it etc, so they could have easily taken 1000 quid on it from me, and arb themselves.
Interesting comments
Basically any pro-punter or serious punter that doesn`t use the exchanges must be dillusional imo...or like previously implied...have some sort of special dispensation with bookmakers
They don't have to worry about exchanges, they can cherry pick any price they like, at any time, and get it laid - making it virtually impossible to lose in the long run, as they will almost always be getting the value. You could pick the horses at random, imo.
The only proviso is keeping their mouths shut so that the rest of us can carry on getting shafted...
The only proviso is keeping their mouths shut so that the rest of us can carry on getting shafted...
don't actually agree there mousaka, many top pro punters or serious gamblers would try and use the bookies on occasions, I personally would rather have a grand with bookies at 2/1, than the same on here at 3.20.for starters betfair take 4%o that, also best odds guarantee and the pay out on disqualification.
Indeed.
Also, if you want a decent bet on at early odds, then the bookies is the only option. There is simply no liquidity on here until 10 mins before the off.
Also, if you want a decent bet on at early odds, then the bookies is the only option. There is simply no liquidity on here until 10 mins before the off.
ive got an acct with 365, restricted to peanuts but I still use it for the c4 offer, so tonight since ive got a few quid in the acct decided to put a bet on cricket, yes cricket the 5 test eng v aus at 9/4, around 3.45 on betfair on the draw so I decided to put the maximum on , they would only let me have 8.33 on.can anyone truethfully explain what common sense 365 have there, im not in the know. cant arb it etc, so they could have easily taken 1000 quid on it from me, and arb themselves.
I like a fun bet on the golf when there are 2 tournaments running over the w/end,pick 1 in each,£5 ew each,£5 ew double.A couple of years ago put bet on laddies a/c,nailed it 28/1 winner & 50/1 winner,a/c closed.
What sort of idiot trading decision is that just because a mug bet landed they werent even RP picks.Needless to say,few singles up since but never win double,so PP getting back laddies money.
I like a fun bet on the golf when there are 2 tournaments running over the w/end,pick 1 in each,£5 ew each,£5 ew double.A couple of years ago put bet on laddies a/c,nailed it 28/1 winner & 50/1 winner,a/c closed.
What sort of idiot trading decision is that just because a mug bet landed they werent even RP picks.Needless to say,few singles up since but never win double,so PP getting back laddies money.
I like a fun bet on the golf when there are 2 tournaments running over the w/end,pick 1 in each,£5 ew each,£5 ew double.A couple of years ago put bet on laddies a/c,nailed it 28/1 winner & 50/1 winner,a/c closed.
What sort of idiot trading decision is that just because a mug bet landed they werent even RP picks.Needless to say,few singles up since but never win double,so PP getting back laddies money.
This imo is a more important issue than whether some shark can get a monkey on Pricewise to lay it back on here.
What sort of idiot trading decision is that just because a mug bet landed they werent even RP picks.Needless to say,few singles up since but never win double,so PP getting back laddies money.
This imo is a more important issue than whether some shark can get a monkey on Pricewise to lay it back on here.
hats off to Victors team there, spotted an arbing sl@g and closed him.
vc traders are mugs, I earned enough moolah to build a roulette table into the boot of my MPV, I have a live dealer and blackjack table in the rear seating area
"an arbing sl@g." Why this hostility to arbers.Arbing i.e. getting a free bet is the most sensible way to bet.Unfortunately,I can't do it,but I can't understand the hostility to those who can.
Their "privileges" will never be taken away as that's the means by which they are kept quiet. It's why I hold almost all of them in contempt and so should all "ordinary"punters. And I mean professionally not personally. I am sure (and I know some of them at least to the extent to pass the time of day with)are perfectly pleasant in other aspects of their life but they are (with a few exceptions) a disgrace to their profession.
Bookmakers don't like arbers because it reminds them of themselves, and, to a man, they're all self-loathers.
Bookmakers like making a profit with no risk. Arbers do exactly the same.
What's the difference ?
Bookmakers like making a profit with no risk. Arbers do exactly the same.
What's the difference ?
My question was why do chavs like Send in the clowns above dislike arbers ?
Artie, if you are a punter then arbers are getting in between you and the value.
Parispike, you are 100% right - not only are they 'a disgrace to their profession', in deliberately failing to report the truth, they are also corrupt, imo...
Parispike, you are 100% right - not only are they 'a disgrace to their profession', in deliberately failing to report the truth, they are also corrupt, imo...
Artie, if you are a punter then arbers are getting in between you and the value
couldnt agree more
couldnt agree more
Artie, if you want to back a horse at 7-1, and the arber does too, then you are obviously less likely to get your price, because more people are chasing it.
The difference is, you actually want to have a bet at 7-1 - the arber just wants to get in front of you in the queue and then sell the 7-1 you wanted back to you at 6's...
The difference is, you actually want to have a bet at 7-1 - the arber just wants to get in front of you in the queue and then sell the 7-1 you wanted back to you at 6's...
Why should I be less likely to get the price.One is always competing with other punters on here.I cannot see the differance between someone who bets to trade,and someone who just bets.
MikenZ is spot on. It's not just the horse racing restrictions that are a joke it's the other sports.
My mate wanted me to put a tenner on a snooker player in the world championships, he was 100/1. Korals wouldn't let me put on more than £4. My mate wouldn't believe me when I told him.
They also restrict me to a few quid on golfers. Now golf odds are huge in comparison to the horses so u can't help but have a big liability on these bets.
They don't play the market like they should, they play the person which is wrong. Just because u want to back a horse at 8/1 when it is 6/1 on here doesn't mean they should be allowed to stop u betting on all sports.
It's a disgrace but no-one wants to bring it up in racing.
My mate wanted me to put a tenner on a snooker player in the world championships, he was 100/1. Korals wouldn't let me put on more than £4. My mate wouldn't believe me when I told him.
They also restrict me to a few quid on golfers. Now golf odds are huge in comparison to the horses so u can't help but have a big liability on these bets.
They don't play the market like they should, they play the person which is wrong. Just because u want to back a horse at 8/1 when it is 6/1 on here doesn't mean they should be allowed to stop u betting on all sports.
It's a disgrace but no-one wants to bring it up in racing.
@artie -- in one case you are competing for the price with 200 other punters; in the other case you are competing against 200 other punters and 200 arbers, making 400 in all, so you are only half as likely to be accommodated. You can change the numbers if you like but the principle is the same.
why don't you all bet cash in the shops , you can more or less get what you want on there or is that to much trouble ?
off the arbing topic, back to unbelievable , im welsh so I fancy a few quid on Cardiff to win prem ok, oh lovely odds 5000/1 with 365, oh ill have a couple of quid on that, no MAX BET IS 10P .
off the arbing topic, back to unbelievable , im welsh so I fancy a few quid on Cardiff to win prem ok, oh lovely odds 5000/1 with 365, oh ill have a couple of quid on that, no MAX BET IS 10P
When I press the "bet max" button I get £10 (not pence) and a note that anything I stake above that will be referred to a trader. Obviously Bet365 thinks you are shrewder than me.
But in this case, they have done you a favour because West Ham will win the Premiership.
When I press the "bet max" button I get £10 (not pence) and a note that anything I stake above that will be referred to a trader. Obviously Bet365 thinks you are shrewder than me.
But in this case, they have done you a favour because West Ham will win the Premiership.
there is a distinct difference between arbing and trading which many people fail to grasp (like this idiot send in the clowns)
agree inside, my opening post was trading, I backed a horse luckily was backed and I traded out, horse could well have drifted, but a group horse in a maiden of obriens. arbing is trying to get 7/1 pricewise for example and knowing its 6.5 on here
closed my mate down today, me a few weeks back
12:44:27 : System: Thank you for contacting BetVictor Live Chat an agent will be with you as soon as possible
12:44:32 : System: CC - Vicki has joined this session!
12:44:32 : System: Connected with CC - Vicki. Your reference number for this chat session is 1014825.
12:44:32 : CC - Vicki: Hello marc, you're speaking to Vicki, how can I help?
12:45:03 : marc: whats happened to my a/c
12:46:02 : CC - Vicki: I am afraid your account has been closed by our traders Marc
12:46:07 : CC - Vicki: this was a business decision
12:46:51 : marc: they really are bloody ****s. theyb offer a good price and if you take it they shut youb down!
12:47:16 : marc: do todays 2 bets stand?
12:44:27 : System: Thank you for contacting BetVictor Live Chat an agent will be with you as soon as possible
12:44:32 : System: CC - Vicki has joined this session!
12:44:32 : System: Connected with CC - Vicki. Your reference number for this chat session is 1014825.
12:44:32 : CC - Vicki: Hello marc, you're speaking to Vicki, how can I help?
12:45:03 : marc: whats happened to my a/c
12:46:02 : CC - Vicki: I am afraid your account has been closed by our traders Marc
12:46:07 : CC - Vicki: this was a business decision
12:46:51 : marc: they really are bloody ****s. theyb offer a good price and if you take it they shut youb down!
12:47:16 : marc: do todays 2 bets stand?
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