Should NH racing be banned? BBC1 10am

what crap are they going to come up with i wonder...

It's boring political rubbish which we've all heard before at the moment.

Should be interesting, lets hope the public in the audience isn't made up of animal rights supporters or Bob Champion could be on his own.

What's more annoying is one of these so-called demographers who wants to increase the population to look after the elderly.  Words fail me!

Another debate post National, the issue will then be forgotten until next April. The general public aren't interested in banning National Hunt racing, it's the time of the year for the extremists to have there say.

Who's that know it all teenager getting applause?

I NEED 3 young female carers!

But one of them had better not be screeching Ruth.

jaarich

Seen him before

Very left wing and very PC

The BBC love him

I hear ya Sparrow,think he does be on Sky News as well

Aye.Rent a mouth across all media platforms

Not too many in the audience look like betting shop customers to me

See that the vet is also an expert on Global population!

I cannot wait to hear that lads views on banning NH racing

Lawney Hill ‏@LawneyHill
Very much looking forward to going on @bbcbigquestions tomorrow 10am live to defend NH racing & future of #grandnational Tune in & support!

"Bullfighting just as bad as NH racing!"

The vet talks a lot of sense

Pro racing side doing a very poor job here.

hate to say this but the anti nh guy is wiping the floor with bob and the vet

There is no common ground between the opposing sides and there never will be.  Pointless having debates like this.

Nicky himself is certainly not a racing man

He does an excellent job as mediator in these type of debates

Someone please call immigration,now Get that joe daki out of here

oh ffs the leftie 's on.He gets on everything this geezer

Here's another fcking d1ckhead saying "the horses don't get a choice".

NH racing supporters taken to the clesners by the antis

Totally futile debate

Cant stand that Beef curtain dodger hes everywhere

I used to think the same try my best, but he is a very clever young man
appeared on newsnight lots of times, and out debated senior lying thieving politicians,
with just common sense, he's like a young Rory Stewart. Very bright kid, Eoin Jones.

I have to agree sparrow

yeah I've seen him on Question Time a couple of times

These type of debates are always futile because the anti-brigade always assign human values to animals.

We all love racing, but just standing back and trying to be balanced and listening
to the other side, It startled me that we on the racing side, allowed the jock to
administer 12 lashes of the whip, now it's 8, again 8 lashes, that surely can't continue.
The anti's missed an open goal there.

ridiculous...NH supporters should refuse to appear on these debates as the whole debate will be stacked against the sport from the outset.Can't understand why we give free rein to these lefties...the sooner we become a dictatorship and either shoot or imprison them the better.

I think Hitler had the same philosophy

Just shows that he had a glimmer of sense

The pro-racing brigade were unfortunately not the brightest sparklers in the pack.

Yeah Bob Champion, saying the 65yo horse was running, and then
looking for the support of his vet

Agree salmon.  Racing needs people who can really stand up for it's interests and fight it's corner with reasoned and balanced arguments.

Paul Nicholls is the kind of person for that debate, he always speaks very intelligently and more importantly would put it across well to Joe Public.

Paul Nicholls is the kind of person for that debate, he always speaks very intelligently and more importantly would put it across well to Joe Public.


Agreed - John Gosden too. Get either of them in front of the antis and they'll soon be reduced to trying to shout them down.

My take on the program was different to everyone else on here it would seem.

The antis came over like illogical, hand wringing, over emotional nutters.

Whilst excepting that Bob Champion should have been left in his stable munching hay, Lawnie Hill was terrific and basically wiped the floor with the anti brigade.

When Campbell tried to open up the debate, the intelligent observers basically couldn't see what there was to concern themselves with, so far down the list of welfare priorities the banning NH racing would appear to be.

The fact that no horse died in the National basically took the wind out of the antis' sails.

Home win for NH racing, imho.

The bbc is reluctant to screen the racing sport from the inside and meet the many trainers, owners, stable staff, course staff and officials and wont even show the national, the countries favourite horse race and yet the beeb is happy to
join forces with those that would be happy to destroy the great culture of horse racing and turn the thourough bred
race horse into just another museum display for a dislocated society to gaze at !

The fact that no horse died in the National basically took the wind out of the antis' sails.

Agreed. They must have been gutted when they heard "all of the horses are home safe and sound" announced on C4 yesterday.

Any lingering flirtation that I may have had with possibly voting for the Green Party in our local elections was soon stubbed out by that Aussie woman jumping on a potential political band wagon.

Under her stewardship the Greens are likely to see all their recent political gains evaporate without trace.

i totally agree loper lawney hill was brilliant the anti brigade had no sensible input just extreme sensationlistic views the animal aid prick had no worthwile input at all in fact i thought he was great for racing

Even though there were no fatalities yesterday the anti-brigade cannot bring themselves to congratulate Aintree following a successful National.  They simply revert to type and say that 2 horses were killed in 2 other races over the 3 days.

https://twitter.com/bpowell13/status/320836124002103298/photo/1

Emma Milne said "I think it's wrong to use animals as a part of entertainment" this is the vet from that reality show about vets which obviously used animals, wish someone had pointed that out to her.

Self-publicist rather than vet.

AS ive posted before...........

Like all these people that want to stop greyhound racing
Phone em up tell em that theve been sucessful.......how bigs yer garden.........how many can you take

Theres a bet Id like to have.........

the hypocrisy of the BBC knows no bounds..
immediately they lose racing coverage they decide to attack it

Emma Milne said "I think it's wrong to use animals as a part of entertainment"...........Probably quite happy to watch some mutt dancing around on its back legs on Britains got no talent

BBC............Wot abt Elton John David & the baby ?
They havent been on Natonial News for a while...............

I usually defend the BBC as I would certainly rather they set the agenda than Rupert Murdoch,but they do seem to be anti-racing. They haven't lost racing in the same way as they lost cricket and formula 1 because the price was too high. They chose to stop televising it.

it about time the BBC removed the word British from their name, they were quite happy broadcasting racing around the world very recently. Very strange turnaround.

too many feminists at the BBC
it is why their programes are so poor
because they dont have to commercialy justify their programs
they can pusue their own agendas at public expense

The AR groups are mostly made up of the same crackpots thad did the 3 men and a horse video.

Anyone that works for the BBC that owns or has got a share in a N/H horse should be named & shamed..........AD will sort it.

BBC are a bunch of pale pink nutters from top to bottom,every possible minority catered for in their crusade for equality, for every weird and wonderful section of the community, to achieve political correctness.

Note the description "nutters"

Thats a protected charateristic you cannot mention it..........

The debate, if there is one to be had, is whether it's acceptable for animals to be killed and seriously injured, for entertainment.

They may be well treated, while they still have careers, but the reality is that many jumps horses will be killed in action.

I absolutely love horse racing, but I find it difficult to defend steeplechasing, even in my own mind. When it goes well it is awesome, but it goes badly too often.

Leona has had her say, its all over


https://twitter.com/
leonalewismusic

The difficulty is if you ban steeplechasing I would give hurdles five years after that and flat racing in this country maybe another 20. Horses obviously do not die as frequently on the flat but die they do and Deathwatch includes them in their stats with no distinction.

Bigger things need to be banned in this country than horses doing things their bred to do imvho.................

Exactly 11kv.  We don't hear Animal Aid or the RSPCA calling for a ban on the production of Halal meat which is cruel in the extreme.

when you say 'if YOU ban racing...'

what you are actually saying is that some politicians will have to have a White Paper presented before parliament, have a consultation on the impact it would have on communities, employment etc and then to get it past the Commons and the Lords

I should think it would need to be a manifesto commitment like Labour did with fox hunting and I cannot see that it would be a vote winner (more likely a vote loser) unless Labour tried it in their manifesto

Aint ever getting banned

Your not refering to teenage pregnancy............

It's been banned in all but one State in Australia. They don't usually appear to be wimpish.
Very little now in the US.
The fact is there are only 3 major NH nations GB,Ireland and France. I specifically said flat racing will be banned in GB. We will be ahead of most unfortunately.
Gay marriage would have been an extreme concept 30 years ago when the police were still trolling for victims in public toilets. Now it is supported by a Tory PM.

it's a huge industry employing thousands and supporting many more

will be very difficult to get it banned for political reasons unless the three parties get together and agree which is not out of the question

but I doubt a single party would independently put it in their manifesto

I tend to agree it's unlikely at the moment but it's a lot more popular than it was. It's not helped by extremists on here saying it's all a left-wing conspiracy. A lot who have no real interest will feel if they are for racing it must be wrong.

you have to think of the impact in the ballot box at an election, there is no way it could be done without being in a manifesto because of the huge economic consequences for hundreds of thousands of people and businesses

only an extreme govt with a large majority could attempt it

going back to the notion of choice for the horses, there are two issues i have.

we assign too many human qualities to animals. people will watch black beauty and seabiscuit, and as such will hate you saying this, but horses are big, stupid animals, with tiny brains. the notion of choice does not mean the same to them. much of what they do is based purely on instinct. having said that, they DO have options! i've been on enough refuse to start/refuse a fence horses to realise, if they dont want to, they wont! and no amount of struggling from their 8 stone passenger will make a difference.

2nd, why is not giving an animal a choice such a big deal? we do it many other facets of life, for food production, as pets etc. it only becomes an emotive subject as its got a nationwide billing and gives a mouthpiece to so many organisations. how many people on this show as an 'anti' keep pets, maybe exotic ones way out of their natural habitat, snakes, lizards etc...or has been mantioned, maybe been eating actual horse for the past few years, not giving one thought to where the food on their plate has come from.

rank hypocrisy, but you never see it highlighted :(

agree bacontrout
your name says where you are coming from

I dont think many chickens end up in KFC buckets out of choice

The horses are well treated....
I dont think they are being asked to do something that is against their natural instinct
deaths are accidental..but part of it
I have no objection to whip free racing myself

if we give all animals choice
I think we might ourselves overun with rats

usually defend the BBC as I would certainly rather they set the agenda than Rupert Murdoch,but they do seem to be anti-racing. They haven't lost racing in the same way as they lost cricket and formula 1 because the price was too high. They chose to stop
televising it.

If the reason to stop televising racing was taken for reasons other than:
1) It is too expensive
2) Not enough people were watching it

I believe this a gross abuse of public money. They are a public television channel.
It is ok showing a program against NH racing...because of free speech.
But if they are taking a stand against NH racing using public money this is wrong.

I am beginning to think the BBC should be made to stand on its own two feet..
and have to compete commercially,,,no public money
although I would miss some of still high quality programs they put out on BBC4

acknowledgement Salmon Spray...I forgot

Agreed bacon the choice arguement always comes up when you raise the fact that all life and sports have risk. The choice arguement is complete and utter crap though, the only arguement is whether the risk is acceptable or not.

For centuries the law and customs of the entire western world has been that domesticated animals are property. Why should race horses all of a sudden be treated different? Most of these people will by the very fact that they buy and own animals be happy with the idea animals can be property and will most likely be appalled at the idea of slavery but they still will try to point to the fact that the jockey has a choice and the horses don't as if it is somehow relevant. One is a human being so gets a choice one is property so doesn't just like all other domesticated animals. They want race horses to have choices because they disagree with it but ignore the fact that they are quite happy with the doctrine of animals being property when it allows them to get the benefits of having a wee baby cat. Totally hypocritical.

To a certain extent although Animal Aid are complete nutters at least there insane views are consistent in that they think no animals should be exploited for the benefit of humans where as your typical animals rights RSPCA **** sits there on their leather chair with their smug air of superiority that they are an animal lovers as they blabber on about how racehorses have no choice whilst they have a chicken sandwich and coffee with milk whilst their five cats prance around in the background.

The racing fraternity should treat the RSPCA,Animal Aid and BBC as the enemy...for God's sake we are or should be at war with them.Having got hunting banned it's obvious to a blindman they'll go after NH racing,Point to Pointing then flat racing,greyhound racing,fishing and shooting.Unless the BHA and Jockey Club recognise this and fight back the sport is doomed. These gay lefties who run the bbc have an agenda and it's about time it was recognised and dealt with.I absolutely despise the BBC and don't think they should be given a penny of taxpayers money...great shame the IRA never blew them up.

the bbc were so keen to drop the national because they want to put the boot into horse racing ,just been on the bbc site and the only stuff  being mentioned is animal rights issues bla bla bla ....two horses died at the meeting bla bla bla .
sooner the bbc and their extortionate licence fee racket dismantled the better .

i dont want to be forced and conned into paying £150 a year to hear there propaganda claptrap anymore ...off with there heads imo

When I complained about the 2nd item on Natonial News being Elton & David stripping to the waste & rubbing the baby all over their torsos for the bonding they thought that there was somthing wrong with me..........

I can attest that lots of Labour Party party members love racing, including National Hunt, I would be amazed if banning even the National ever got anywhere near being party policy.   I'm a long standing member myself and have never heard it even so much as mentioned!

labour party and national HUNT

they wasted  700 hrs of parliament time on the hunting debate and less than 70 on the Iraq war

Foxes rights more important than human rights ,they are a joke and so are the paedophile protection society at the bbc .

Didn't Blair say that the foxhunting ban was a mistake?

If I was at the BHA I would set up a team to investigate the RSPCA and get them reporting on the social media about where people's money goes.

Aintree have worked with RSPCA and produced a safer race there is no need for RSPCA to be issueing statements like this a day after the race.

Anybody  who posts that everybody who is against NH racing is a lefty is a moron !

There's no point in applying logic to this issue in a debate than there was in the run up to hunting being banned.

Those who want to see animals treated better than people will argue emotionally, as Salmon Spray pointed out, for ever more cosseting of them, no matter what the price.

Yes. I wouldn't give an inch to them but I would treat them civilly. And I would generally consider myself a lefty. I don't honestly think this has much to do with politics in general. I'm sure some of these Animal Aid types have links with other left-wing groups but mostly I think they are one-issue people. I hardly think it likely that Leona Lewis is an SWP member.

How cruel is the TV licensing system for poor people and pensioners to pay when we live in the age of advertising.

Perhaps the BBC should be less vocal on matters of culture that have been around since the dawn of time when it has only

been around less than a century with no certain future....

Any political party that proposed the banning of mind-numbing AW Racing would get my vote.

jackdaw, if you cant shut your mouth then simply close your eyes as no one forces you or anyone to watch

and understand horse racing pal...

dog racing with jockeys.

I watched this on the Sky+ on demand and it was a pathetically limp debate...these anti-NH racing people are morons that haven't got a clue!

It was mentioned that in the last year, 1127 ex-thoroughbreds visited the abattoir, some of which were relatively young 3/4/5 & 6yo's - is there any truth in that and has anyone got any further information?

They suggested they were also in good health

Not sure, but I know that 50 billion chickens were slaughtered last year, if that helps?

Surely someone must know something about that figure I posted of 1127 ex-thoroughbreds being slaughtered last year?

In a UK abattoir or done elsewhere then distributed to us arses who don't complain?
Were they UK/Ireland thoroughbreds or is this exclusive to the continent?

If this has been going on here, I'd certainly like to know who the owners are that've 'cashed in' on their supposedly healthy pets - I'd expect many people on here would also like to know.

i'm quite surprised it's only 1127  i'd have thought that ith so many dross horses/injuries that the figure isn't much higher

which names of ex-thoroughbreds were slaughtered please?

I guess the possibility exists but hopefully not until Sprinter Sacre retires I hope.