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06 Apr 13
13:04
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Date Joined:
05 Apr 12
I am a huge fan of racing but its been some time since I could watch this race with a clear conscience. How do others feel ?
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hopefully they will all get round, but death is an inextricable part of life
maybe U can watch a video of people dying..............all over the world
How many animals die for your enjoyment on the dinner table?
Don't watch, simples, problem solved.
Perhaps you should worry about other issues instead, child poverty/abuse, the starving of the world, those abused daily in slavery etc etc
No-one likes to see horses die, but these beasts have a wonderful life, they are fed, groomed, exercised, housed which is not something that can be said for all the people of the world.
Find a more deserving cause for your conscience to deal with and actually do something about it e.g. Charity Work, perhaps that will make you feel better?
Perhaps you should worry about other issues instead, child poverty/abuse, the starving of the world, those abused daily in slavery etc etc
No-one likes to see horses die, but these beasts have a wonderful life, they are fed, groomed, exercised, housed which is not something that can be said for all the people of the world.
Find a more deserving cause for your conscience to deal with and actually do something about it e.g. Charity Work, perhaps that will make you feel better?
In deference to the animal righters Aintree have renamed one of the the fences as Burgers Brook.
None actually I am a veggie but that does not increase the relevance of your reply
Hope you're a vegetrian to start a ludicrous thread like that.
How many animals will die in abbatoirs today? Thousands, so stop being a bleeding hypocrite.
I had a number in my mind of how many replies it would take to get a reasonable response, Big Issue has just proved me wrong I thought it would take much more
Huge fan of racing hey? So I assume you watched Rewilding break a leg and have to be put down on the flat at Ascot last 2 years ago? Does that mean you now no longer watch 1m4f flat races?
The number of fatalaties in flat racing is dwarfed by those in NH and again by the National
If you are vegetarian, I would suggest that looking to do something about the meat industry dwarfs concerns about racehorses that are comparatively treated like royalty
Joined: 05 Apr 12
I thought Betfair had suspended new new Forum users?
I thought Betfair had suspended new new Forum users?
Harsh but true fact: there are far, far worse fates for a horse (or any animal) than a comparatively quick death of which it has no fear or foreboding, particularly when it happens with the adrenaline flowing during participation of the activity for which it was bred, trained and brought to peak fitness, and when the final minutes take place under experienced veterinary supervision where needed. That doesn't mean it isn't sad or that the horse won't be mourned by those close to him. Unfortunately however humans have a tendency to fear death above all else so often find that a difficult concept to grasp.
Unlike the vast majority of horses in this country nowadays, racehorses are working animals not pets. They are (in the main, notwithstanding the few undesirable but inevitable bad apples that unfortunately crop up in every situation) cared for, respected and even loved but it tends to be an unsentimental love. No-one in racing wants to lose a horse in these circumstances and the whole industry works together to minimise risk, but risk nevertheless remains as it does in any high-speed, high-impact sport - indeed, as it does in every walk of life.
Unlike the vast majority of horses in this country nowadays, racehorses are working animals not pets. They are (in the main, notwithstanding the few undesirable but inevitable bad apples that unfortunately crop up in every situation) cared for, respected and even loved but it tends to be an unsentimental love. No-one in racing wants to lose a horse in these circumstances and the whole industry works together to minimise risk, but risk nevertheless remains as it does in any high-speed, high-impact sport - indeed, as it does in every walk of life.
The ratio of deaths is irrelevant. The luvvies will cry murder if 1 or all 40 die this afternoon.
mange
19 replies so far and only 3 sensible debatable replies
How many prícks will be gutted later when all the horses come home safe & sound?
So many turds are mawkishly rubbing their paws in anticipation of a gore-fest
So many turds are mawkishly rubbing their paws in anticipation of a gore-fest
No matter how we convince ourselves that the death is as clean and mercyful as posssible the fact is that these deaths are taking place so that we can have a bet, watch a race and shout and scream and owners can win some money. The expectancy of death is far too high in races of this nature to excuse the indulgence.
olias is a daily mail coksooking cockroach who wets his panties phoning up tipster lines
Like I said, concentrate on the real scandals of the meat industry rather than this high profile media driven bullshiite.
Anyone replying on this thread is indulging an attention seeker with a twisted sense of conscience.....go away you ****
Actually I am a left wing ish, ardent racing fan who runs a tipping line. I am very much anti Daily Mail and take great offence at that part of your comment
I am a great believer that Racing has suffered due to its unwillingness to change, holding on to traditional values in desperation as the sport flounders. The National would still be watched by millions if regulation fences were deployed. The fatality rate would then approach other long distance chase races
here's some stats 100% of all animals will die.
the only thing your conscience needs to worry about is what was
their life like up until that point. racehorses have a very decent life.
the only thing your conscience needs to worry about is what was
their life like up until that point. racehorses have a very decent life.
OP
Just go away and post on the RSPCA forum
This is a forum for folks who enjoy the sport of horseracing and like a bet
Just go away and post on the RSPCA forum
This is a forum for folks who enjoy the sport of horseracing and like a bet
Animal Aid and the BBC will be delighted if there's a pile up.
Very true NG, its the animal rights campaigners who are hoping for deaths of horses today, so that they, can kick up a fuss.
looks like he joined the forum on national day last year...wish they'd shoot all these animal aid/rspca creeps....i decided some time ago never to donate to rspca a bunch of leftie terrorists.
So in your opinion the fatality rate in a normal long distance race is acceptable but it isn't in the National? How do you come to this view and how can you criticise others for thinking the rate in the National is acceptable when there will be those who think any risk is too high and disagree with you on the risk in normal races?
There is unlikely to be any immediate changes to the race but perhaps they could keep the fences and not allow the public to actually see the horses jump the fences. They do this very effectively at Cartmel and it only distracts from the racing in a minor way
Not acceptable but a lot better than the National fences
Perhaps the National could be run at Portman Park next year to appease the RSPCA.
Is it right that we use defencless stupid low intelligence animals for our own enjoyment and amusement ?
shut up you boring bastud, haven't you had enough attention yet?
Assuming you disagree with the whole idea of domestic animals being considered property then and don't just have an issue with racehorses or are you one of these people who owns 5 cats for your enjoyment?
Apr 6, 2013 -- 1:44PM, OliasOfSunhillow wrote:
Is it right that we use defencless stupid low intelligence animals for our own enjoyment and amusement ?
Well, we have Premiership football...
It is those poor lowly intelligent beings that I feel for. They have no idea that their exertions are purley for the entertainment of others, can this be right ?
Of course the OP has a perfectly valid point of view, but of course it is a view that would only be met with abuse and lack of real logic on this forum - For the simple reason that it goes against the wishes of most who post on here. I'm a gambler myself, and on horses, but I'm not going to pretend I don't feel uneasy about fatalities in racing. This race simply emphasises that particular problem with racing, and to pretend it doesn't is putting your head in the sand.
it can't be right that some people were given brains only to use them for posting shiite on forums Olias.
Go down your local abattoir and you can see loads of ex racehorses dying in desparation, despair and cruelty, if you have a concience donate to greatwood etc otherwise celebrate life
But Christy, should we allow the enjoyment of even one person to be at the expense of lowly untelligent beings. Is it not exploitation
the event should be modified to reduce any likelihood of deaths, likewise i think use of the whip (or excessive use) should be looked at and tightened
there should be no joy in seeing horses injured - however with folk who arent interested in racing there does sometimes seem an agenda , whereas they will think nothing of tucking into a meat meal where the animal is kept in inhumane conditions
there should be no joy in seeing horses injured - however with folk who arent interested in racing there does sometimes seem an agenda , whereas they will think nothing of tucking into a meat meal where the animal is kept in inhumane conditions
Please answer my question Olias since you wanted a reasonable discussion.
Olias- Most of us on here will be gutted if a horse dies today. Gitted for the horse,the connections and as I assume most of us will question our love of the sport. You however want there to be a death to prove you right, you do not care about these horses, and why should you?
Last years GN really upset me but on reflection I still support the race. We follow these horses through the years and the reality is that if the GN goes then it will spiral down to all NH Racing ( there is a debate on BBC1 at 10 am tomorrow).
I have argued this point on Twitter with these so called animal lovers, one who said a horses life was as important as a childs life. Another who wanted this race in PARTICULAR banned, Basically all racing but let us start with this one.
Last years GN really upset me but on reflection I still support the race. We follow these horses through the years and the reality is that if the GN goes then it will spiral down to all NH Racing ( there is a debate on BBC1 at 10 am tomorrow).
I have argued this point on Twitter with these so called animal lovers, one who said a horses life was as important as a childs life. Another who wanted this race in PARTICULAR banned, Basically all racing but let us start with this one.
Looks like you joined just in time last year to make comments on the GN. From your comments I would conclude that the horses are certainly more intelligent than you.
wHO REALLY CARES HOW MANY HORSES DIE ?
You may be shocked for a couple of hours after the race if a few die, but you wont be mourning them next fookin week, where as you might a family member or good friend. Horses are dying everyday, humans too if you hadn't noticed. Working dogs die, cattle die, bees are dying, Fish are dying.
What seems to be growing is Iriot People who want life to be surrounded with Health and safety procedures and no accidents or risks involved.
You may be shocked for a couple of hours after the race if a few die, but you wont be mourning them next fookin week, where as you might a family member or good friend. Horses are dying everyday, humans too if you hadn't noticed. Working dogs die, cattle die, bees are dying, Fish are dying.
What seems to be growing is Iriot People who want life to be surrounded with Health and safety procedures and no accidents or risks involved.
But guys should I be using low life unintelligent beings purely for my own enjoyment and amusement, is it right ?
Yes the law and customs of the entire western world has been based on that premise for centuries.
Apr 6, 2013 -- 2:15PM, Mr Holmes wrote:
wHO REALLY CARES HOW MANY HORSES DIE ? You may be shocked for a couple of hours after the race if a few die, but you wont be mourning them next fookin week, where as you might a family member or good friend. Horses are dying everyday, humans too if you hadn't noticed. Working dogs die, cattle die, bees are dying, Fish are dying.What seems to be growing is Iriot People who want life to be surrounded with Health and safety procedures and no accidents or risks involved.
How often do you attend the dog fighting rings saying "sure they are only dogs, its all good"
Apr 6, 2013 -- 1:12PM, Jezebel wrote:
Harsh but true fact: there are far, far worse fates for a horse (or any animal) than a comparatively quick death of which it has no fear or foreboding, particularly when it happens with the adrenaline flowing during participation of the activity for which it was bred, trained and brought to peak fitness, and when the final minutes take place under experienced veterinary supervision where needed. That doesn't mean it isn't sad or that the horse won't be mourned by those close to him. Unfortunately however humans have a tendency to fear death above all else so often find that a difficult concept to grasp.Unlike the vast majority of horses in this country nowadays, racehorses are working animals not pets. They are (in the main, notwithstanding the few undesirable but inevitable bad apples that unfortunately crop up in every situation) cared for, respected and even loved but it tends to be an unsentimental love. No-one in racing wants to lose a horse in these circumstances and the whole industry works together to minimise risk, but risk nevertheless remains as it does in any high-speed, high-impact sport - indeed, as it does in every walk of life.
superb post but why would a owner put his horse in a race that his animal has a statistically better chance of dying than any other, if its for the money then i'm sick of all this "we care about the horses" nonsense
you wont be mourning them next fookin week, where as you MIGHT a family member or good friend.
________________________________________
Only might mourn then ?
________________________________________
Only might mourn then ?
Its been most enjoyable chaps, I will now have to put the screens up around all bar a couple of you now, thanks for all your replies even if you replied in blissful ignorance ...Bye
Not you steamship.
Olias joined April 5th last year and posted shyte about GN. Now he's doing it this year.
Olias joined April 5th last year and posted shyte about GN. Now he's doing it this year.
he says he loves racing but thinks the national is a step too far and is talking shyte. how?
I would agree that it's uncomfortable viewing at times, but then you have to think that thousands of animals every day are hung up on hooks while still alive, electrocuted and then executed so that they can be on the shelves at Sainsburys the following morning.
That's what's so hypocritical about the antis - they probably devised their latest anti National campaign while eating a round of bacon sandwiches...
That's what's so hypocritical about the antis - they probably devised their latest anti National campaign while eating a round of bacon sandwiches...
But what about the amount of people being slaughtered everyday in Mexico & Syria, does that mean we should do a "survivor" type show with 10 people killing each other?
worst still the one's hung up alive and then have their throats cut in the name of religion!
Millhouse my son, why hath thou deserted me although you are correct about stringing lowly animals along
Pitty that the winds dropped............He could have gone outside & pi$$ed against it............
With all your negativity , I'm surprised you even get out of bed.
You sound like a laugh a minute.
You sound like a laugh a minute.
Olias, I do share your discomfort about the race to an extent, as I think we all do, but I'm struggling to see why horses lives are more valuable than lambs or calves in the eyes of the antis - if I was going to come back as an animal a racecourse would be pretty high on my list of preferred options...
For a site that exists solely for one group of greedy feckers to attempt to take money off another Betfair, attracts its fare share of limp wristed pathetic Liberals.Should you lot not be outside building windfarms or whatever worthy cause is flavour of the month at the moment...
I still maintain that all low levels of intelligence should be respected and not abused
Depends on your definition of abuse. I would maintain, as per my previous post, that racehorses ARE respected. Better respect and being treated as a horse than fluffy anthropomorphic sentimentality.
There will be more animals diagnosed today with serious long-term medical conditions through mis-management by people who claim to love them but who equate 'love' with treating them like furry humans rather than the animals they are, than there will be horses killed on the racecourse.
There will be more animals diagnosed today with serious long-term medical conditions through mis-management by people who claim to love them but who equate 'love' with treating them like furry humans rather than the animals they are, than there will be horses killed on the racecourse.
Lets hope that when racing finishes today everyone on here gets home safely
Point is there could be a happy medium between risk and racing - not a point most seem to be getting on here though.
THERES RISK IN EVERYTHING WE DO... LIFE IS A BIG FAT RISK
Pointless entering into dialogue with Olias....suggest we all ignore him
People are getting it Stu and are making the point we are at a happy medium.
Its been a most enjoyable and entertaining exchange, many thanks
On the subject of risk v racing, in 2011 (the last complete year for which I have statistics) 157 out of the 20,714 individual horses (Flat & NH combined) which raced at least once died on the track. That equates to 0.75%.
The average number of runs per horse was 4.35, so 90,105 starters. 157 fatalities from 90,105 starters equates to 0.17%.
I think most people would accept those figures as low risk.
That's not to minimise the loss of those 157 horses - every one is to be regretted, and the industry hasn't stopped trying to bring that number down even further.
The average number of runs per horse was 4.35, so 90,105 starters. 157 fatalities from 90,105 starters equates to 0.17%.
I think most people would accept those figures as low risk.
That's not to minimise the loss of those 157 horses - every one is to be regretted, and the industry hasn't stopped trying to bring that number down even further.
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