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had enough of this,another mugging of my account tomorrow by betunfair,£573 a week for using there site (when it actually works ),no more of this cac for me,purple is the only way to go,betunfair have made this site only for losers now,winners noe welcome.
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Book, sorry for the delay replying. In running and lack of liquidity on anything other than the front of the market (whether backing or laying) has stopped me changing to purple so far.
Racing star, you have no idea who i am (I'm not the person you described) and as i stated before i have no fast pictures, do not use a bot and am not a trader. I have no 'edge' as you put it.
Racing star, you have no idea who i am (I'm not the person you described) and as i stated before i have no fast pictures, do not use a bot and am not a trader. I have no 'edge' as you put it.
sounds like my edge is the same as yours asparagus,we havent got one but still get mugged every wednesday.
The Commision structure was always wrong,imo.
5% maximum on the biggest winners down to 1% for the Losers.
However,now the Company has "floated" it is doomed to follow the pathway to destruction they have embarked upon.
Unbridled greed is the root of BF's troubles.
5% maximum on the biggest winners down to 1% for the Losers.
However,now the Company has "floated" it is doomed to follow the pathway to destruction they have embarked upon.
Unbridled greed is the root of BF's troubles.
asparagus,
Call me Sherlock Holmes if you like but with that username,it was not unreasonable to conclude that you may have been Micky Fletcher!
Call me Sherlock Holmes if you like but with that username,it was not unreasonable to conclude that you may have been Micky Fletcher!
Racing star, yes i guessed that's who you meant. My username relates to the horse 'Asparagus' which raced a number of years back.
Book, yeah I'm fed up with getting 'mugged' on a regular basis. Not every week for me but regular enough and high amounts. It's the excessive nature of the premium charge that really gets me.
Book, yeah I'm fed up with getting 'mugged' on a regular basis. Not every week for me but regular enough and high amounts. It's the excessive nature of the premium charge that really gets me.
asparagus,
If you wish to Back or Lay on the other side you can do so on "the show".
If something is 2.74 on here you will be accomodated at 2.8 if you are a Layer or 2.7 if you are a Backer by the BD Bot.
That strikes me as being better than being shafted for 2%plus another 20% on here.
If you wish to Back or Lay on the other side you can do so on "the show".
If something is 2.74 on here you will be accomodated at 2.8 if you are a Layer or 2.7 if you are a Backer by the BD Bot.
That strikes me as being better than being shafted for 2%plus another 20% on here.
40% what a disgrace
They are prob putting their heads together now in betfair hq wondering if they can get away with conning 60% out of us
They are prob putting their heads together now in betfair hq wondering if they can get away with conning 60% out of us
Racing star, yes I've tried purple and for the front of the market it's just about ok if a little stressful! For the rags it's very poor and for in running it's non-existent. I've tried having some bets on purple and keeping some here but that becomes much less straightforward with your positions plus it's very difficult if you can't place all of your bets there as there are regular times when you lose on the purple market but win on the betfair market which effectively becomes a double whammy for premium charge purposes.
For example i had a day when i won 8k on here (net of 2% commission) but lost 7k on ****. A 1k profit would be great. However i knew that the following wednesday between 2.5k and 3k of that 8k but would taken off me in premium charge (assuming i was in profit the rest of the week). The pyschology of that really doesn't help your betting or your discipline. Of course if i could transfer all my betting i would.
In any case this thread is about the overall injustice and scale of the premium charge rather than my own personal experience. it's just way too high and applies to a large number of punters as well as the bot users, traders etc.
For example i had a day when i won 8k on here (net of 2% commission) but lost 7k on ****. A 1k profit would be great. However i knew that the following wednesday between 2.5k and 3k of that 8k but would taken off me in premium charge (assuming i was in profit the rest of the week). The pyschology of that really doesn't help your betting or your discipline. Of course if i could transfer all my betting i would.
In any case this thread is about the overall injustice and scale of the premium charge rather than my own personal experience. it's just way too high and applies to a large number of punters as well as the bot users, traders etc.
yes the extent of it is no doubt. If the commission rate on winnings was higher for long term winning customers i could accept that. Maybe you pay an extra 1% on each winning bet if you've won more than a certain amount on betfair or something along those lines. 40% is just appalling.
Any idiot that didn't migrate years ago and now makes a decision much later when purple is owned by a
bookmaker does so on the basis that they probably don't win or cant win by a ratio of
per chance and has every liability that at some point in the future if they were profitable would
get the old traditional "lock out" treatment over at purple instead of being charged for the
amount that they would cream off the system and force requirements for new customers, money and server upgrades
that are necessary if you were a trader using high frequency betting....
bookmaker does so on the basis that they probably don't win or cant win by a ratio of
per chance and has every liability that at some point in the future if they were profitable would
get the old traditional "lock out" treatment over at purple instead of being charged for the
amount that they would cream off the system and force requirements for new customers, money and server upgrades
that are necessary if you were a trader using high frequency betting....
do you ever read back what you write or does it all just fly out and you can't control it?
I would think it best to work on a new strategy, if you cant think of one then that's a problem for you, you'll have to continue paying betfair a renumeration for using their platform to milk 60% of their cash cow it's a simple equation really.
I totally agree that PC is unfair but like bookmaker restrictions you can moan til you're blue in the face it's here so you're either gonna have the smarts to work round it or deal with it
I totally agree that PC is unfair but like bookmaker restrictions you can moan til you're blue in the face it's here so you're either gonna have the smarts to work round it or deal with it
do you ever read back what you write or does it all just fly out and you can't control it?
you know the answer the answer to that
you know the answer the answer to that
elise its just good knowing the percentages and as yet I haven't heard one customer/member that was on the
top rate of PC complain, they probably just upped there game as it wouldn't be that difficult
nor much of a problem if you were doing so well anyway, its the waves of illusionists that think
the charge effects them that I cant get over when clearly they couldn't run a market stall, let
alone a world class cutting edge betting exchange.
top rate of PC complain, they probably just upped there game as it wouldn't be that difficult
nor much of a problem if you were doing so well anyway, its the waves of illusionists that think
the charge effects them that I cant get over when clearly they couldn't run a market stall, let
alone a world class cutting edge betting exchange.
You only have to make about 2.5% on stakes on here to pay the Premium charge once you have made over £250,000. That is not a very high return on stakes.
20% was just about acceptable to pay for marketing. It also meant you had to be a better punter making about 5% on stakes before you had to pay it.
The commission structure was (and still is) massively in favour of traders. Not only does trading out reduce your risk but it also reduces the raw commission on have to pay. I think the premium charge was set to stop this.
A radical move would be to put in place a 1% charge on turnover (charged on stakes or per winning bet - not market). It would cut out alot of marginal trading but punters (who fund the exchange) would be fine. This policy has worked for Betfair Australia on horseracing. I dont see a massive drop in amounts matched but a turnover charge exists there.
A turnover charge would allow Betfair to compete directly with the bookies in a much clearer way. A 1% charge would result in an evens shot being 1.99 instead of 2. Rather than the 1.95 it becomes for 5% players now.
20% was just about acceptable to pay for marketing. It also meant you had to be a better punter making about 5% on stakes before you had to pay it.
The commission structure was (and still is) massively in favour of traders. Not only does trading out reduce your risk but it also reduces the raw commission on have to pay. I think the premium charge was set to stop this.
A radical move would be to put in place a 1% charge on turnover (charged on stakes or per winning bet - not market). It would cut out alot of marginal trading but punters (who fund the exchange) would be fine. This policy has worked for Betfair Australia on horseracing. I dont see a massive drop in amounts matched but a turnover charge exists there.
A turnover charge would allow Betfair to compete directly with the bookies in a much clearer way. A 1% charge would result in an evens shot being 1.99 instead of 2. Rather than the 1.95 it becomes for 5% players now.
As somebody who is a small player 4.7% commission currently and never payed less I would support that. I trade a bit on football,cricket etc but very rarely on HR which constitutes 95% of my betting.
frog2
03 Apr 13 13:08
Joined: 01 Feb 08 | Topic/replies: 373 | Blogger: frog2's blog
You only have to make about 2.5% on stakes on here to pay the Premium charge once you have made over £250,000. That is not a very high return on stakes.
Frog2 with the greatest respect I would like to say that if you cant turn your 2.5% profit into 5% profit
to enable your better outlook then thats your own problem and not that of BFs and altering
the over-round would cripple the whole betting and trading ecosystem as an exchange has nothing to do with
the way a bookmaker(layer only) operates...
03 Apr 13 13:08
Joined: 01 Feb 08 | Topic/replies: 373 | Blogger: frog2's blog
You only have to make about 2.5% on stakes on here to pay the Premium charge once you have made over £250,000. That is not a very high return on stakes.
Frog2 with the greatest respect I would like to say that if you cant turn your 2.5% profit into 5% profit
to enable your better outlook then thats your own problem and not that of BFs and altering
the over-round would cripple the whole betting and trading ecosystem as an exchange has nothing to do with
the way a bookmaker(layer only) operates...
If you cant increase your ROI% then how come you cant double your stake?
It seems that its the general consensus on personal betting economics thats the problem
and not the charging system that BF employs IMO....
It seems that its the general consensus on personal betting economics thats the problem
and not the charging system that BF employs IMO....
using leverage to increase margin will lead to problems you are a blinkered thickett of the highest order
Thank god most of you aren't running the country or a business then and I truly hate to say it!
premium charge is here to stay .
regardless of what purple do
regardless of what purple do
sometimes bf, you really should keep quiet, if you had any idea about how hard it is to make a REAL 105/7 percent roi long term, even the worlds greatest punter only had a 116 percent roi punting career returns.
manxy
03 Apr 13 13:24
Joined: 09 Oct 10 | Topic/replies: 8,325 | Blogger: manxy's blog
sometimes bf, you really should keep quiet, if you had any idea about how hard it is to make a REAL 105/7 percent roi long term, even the worlds greatest punter only had a 116 percent roi punting career returns.
116%? hmmm I take it they weren't computer programming enthusiasts then
03 Apr 13 13:24
Joined: 09 Oct 10 | Topic/replies: 8,325 | Blogger: manxy's blog
sometimes bf, you really should keep quiet, if you had any idea about how hard it is to make a REAL 105/7 percent roi long term, even the worlds greatest punter only had a 116 percent roi punting career returns.
116%? hmmm I take it they weren't computer programming enthusiasts then
BFwhatever, its fine until you try to win more than about 2.5k then you start getting worse average odds and thus your ROI drops. Slightly worse odds makes a massive drop in ROI.
The current situation means that I trade on here and do my low margin bets on here. I only use Betfair where I cannot use other bookies. Most of my backing and higher margin, higher risk bets are now placed elsewhere because of the threat of the Premium Charge in the future. I am losing with some bookies and winning with others but the overall ROI is over 1.5% (with no commission) so it makes sense to keep using them.
I used to just use Betfair for everything. Now I have dozens of bookie accounts.
The current situation means that I trade on here and do my low margin bets on here. I only use Betfair where I cannot use other bookies. Most of my backing and higher margin, higher risk bets are now placed elsewhere because of the threat of the Premium Charge in the future. I am losing with some bookies and winning with others but the overall ROI is over 1.5% (with no commission) so it makes sense to keep using them.
I used to just use Betfair for everything. Now I have dozens of bookie accounts.
116%? hmmm I take it they weren't computer programming enthusiasts then
He's talking about real profits, not imaginary ones.
He's talking about real profits, not imaginary ones.
bff.
out of that 116 percent roi came all his expenses of punting on track for a life-time, i will bet his profit was half that.
on the other hand, he was betting into 120+ percent books.
out of that 116 percent roi came all his expenses of punting on track for a life-time, i will bet his profit was half that.
on the other hand, he was betting into 120+ percent books.
Unfortunately you can't teach the Betfair employed automated forum crawler about the complexities of betting returns.
He has already admitted that it is not his area of expertise.
And with each succeeding post he is proving that to be the case.
He has already admitted that it is not his area of expertise.
And with each succeeding post he is proving that to be the case.
andyl 02 Apr 13 23:19
i was told when PC1 was introduced as a big commission generator i would NEVER EVER pay the premium charge by my key account manager
within 12 months or so i was
ANSWER THAT 1 PLEASE BFF
______________
Andy did it coincide with you starting to bet from the tracks ?
or where you paying PC before you went to the tracks
i was told when PC1 was introduced as a big commission generator i would NEVER EVER pay the premium charge by my key account manager
within 12 months or so i was
ANSWER THAT 1 PLEASE BFF
______________
Andy did it coincide with you starting to bet from the tracks ?
or where you paying PC before you went to the tracks
"does he actually have an area of expertise then loper?"
Yes,the cretin has a Masters Degree in Bullshatting.
Yes,the cretin has a Masters Degree in Bullshatting.
Can't read through 6 pages but from what I have witnessed on the Purple site since Laddies bought them, anyone expecting them to be their white crusader are as deluded as that BFF fellow.
tbf there is the odd diamond amongst the reams of text, sadly i cannot be bothered to read all of the tripe to find it most of the time
I would remind you that even a broken clock is correct twice a day,elise.
Gerbs 03 Apr 13 16:06 Joined: 14 Apr 02 | Topic/replies: 2,577 | Blogger: Gerbs's blog
andyl 02 Apr 13 23:19
i was told when PC1 was introduced as a big commission generator i would NEVER EVER pay the premium charge by my key account manager
within 12 months or so i was
ANSWER THAT 1 PLEASE BFF
______________
Andy did it coincide with you starting to bet from the tracks ?
or where you paying PC before you went to the tracks
gerbs my lifetime profit to gross profits was 30odd percent meaning i did not qualify for PC1 nor would i still. I qualified for PC2 easily when the 250k criteria came in. My current comm % betting on track on A GOOD WEEK is sub 10% 50-60% but its the 250k which has fc&&ed me
betfair pc has sucked up all the big winners in regardless of how they bet!!!
andyl 02 Apr 13 23:19
i was told when PC1 was introduced as a big commission generator i would NEVER EVER pay the premium charge by my key account manager
within 12 months or so i was
ANSWER THAT 1 PLEASE BFF
______________
Andy did it coincide with you starting to bet from the tracks ?
or where you paying PC before you went to the tracks
gerbs my lifetime profit to gross profits was 30odd percent meaning i did not qualify for PC1 nor would i still. I qualified for PC2 easily when the 250k criteria came in. My current comm % betting on track on A GOOD WEEK is sub 10% 50-60% but its the 250k which has fc&&ed me
betfair pc has sucked up all the big winners in regardless of how they bet!!!
my biggest gripe is on a very good run you giove loads to betfair yet it is me who takes all the risk, on a very bad week i lose all my exes plus lose plus its much harder to claw it back and yiu stagnate
i don;t think its fair betfair take as much if not more than me do you??
betfair PC also fails to take into account expenses incurred and you are punished for generating alot of commission and not enough as well
i don;t think its fair betfair take as much if not more than me do you??
betfair PC also fails to take into account expenses incurred and you are punished for generating alot of commission and not enough as well
Andyl,
Have you ever thought of "becoming someone new" with obvious modifications to your BF Fingerprints?
Have you ever thought of "becoming someone new" with obvious modifications to your BF Fingerprints?
of course racingstar but i'm honest as the day is long......betfair should take a close look at the pc as it just is so unfair currently....a fter could easily win 250k a year but clear c50k
I would never let anybody take more from me than I make,andyl.
Each to his own.
You are correct though,the PC Structure is hideous.
Each to his own.
You are correct though,the PC Structure is hideous.
And on a rather smaller note..
When you visit your P/L it becomes totally meaningless.
It says I've won £..... in the last 3 months (I haven't though, you have taken lots of it)
When you visit your P/L it becomes totally meaningless.
It says I've won £..... in the last 3 months (I haven't though, you have taken lots of it)
guys there is not alot of reason to try and open new accounts as betfair have what they call a premium charge evasion team who contacted me a few weeks ago to tell me they were joining my wife's and my accounts because we used the same strategy in betting. both accounts were opened years before the premium charge was even thought of by betfair so it was not to avoid it.neither account had reached a position to pay the pc but the net winnings bought us much closer to paying the 40% pc by about £60k.now are accounts will probably go straight onto the 40% pc without ever hitting the 20% pc which is crazy.our combined commission payed over 7 years is £70k not a bad return imo.
when speaking to betfair about how unfair this seemed they almost told me we do not want you on here and you have no rights for appeal.they do not seem to have any rules to abide by and i feel if i made a big fuss ie:go to ibas they would just close my account.
will bring my old post up betfair premium charge evasion team
when speaking to betfair about how unfair this seemed they almost told me we do not want you on here and you have no rights for appeal.they do not seem to have any rules to abide by and i feel if i made a big fuss ie:go to ibas they would just close my account.
will bring my old post up betfair premium charge evasion team
It might affect less than 0.1% at the moment but i'm sure there must be a quite a few punters who have yet to hit 250k lifetime profits but are under the 40% charges. I myself have gross profits of 229k and 62k total charges 27% so I've still some way to go but i'm a pre-race punter who backs in quite a few races each day and have had many bad runs as well. The 40% is ridiculous
"..... seemed they almost told me we do not want you on here and you have no rights for appeal."
Like saying, "Screw you, we don't give a sh1t." Bit of a change in the ethos of betfair to the early days.
Like saying, "Screw you, we don't give a sh1t." Bit of a change in the ethos of betfair to the early days.
amanda you're bang on with that,its a joke on the p/l that they class all your winnings as your winnings,its should be listed as your winnings & our dick turpin muggings from you.
book I have always thought that the profit and loss line was nett. are you sure that
it is the gross figure?
it is the gross figure?
The fact that this thread is still here tells you how bothered they are about the complainers, book. Give us a shout when you have all decamped to the other place and made it work. Every journey begins with one step.
Must be when not if Laddies give it their name. Can't take off without it.
saddo, I have been using it for a while and a fiddler like myself has saved over a
£100 since the start of the year, big difference in paying 3% commission rather than
the 4.8 I was paying.
£100 since the start of the year, big difference in paying 3% commission rather than
the 4.8 I was paying.
my point was,that we dont see all these winnings after the pc charge,this figure isnt true basically.
Aye, but moaning about something while still using it seems a waste of time tbf.
saddo I have not used this site for about 4 years the pc put the kybosh on it for me.
howard one thing for sure Laddies will not throw away their cash by seeding the in running horse markets.
I have never looked over there, miprix, I will visit one day.
In view of the 50% fair tax rate for the rich then I take it with the options of becoming rich one day that you all are
also packing your bags and moving to China also
also packing your bags and moving to China also
Your P/L shows your winnings after commission..
It doesn't show your winnings after the premium charge has been applied. It's inaccurate as a measure of profit & loss.
It's like it never happened...
It doesn't show your winnings after the premium charge has been applied. It's inaccurate as a measure of profit & loss.
It's like it never happened...
Amanda of course you are right, it looks as if the money they purloin has never existed.
Ok,just put some dosh into purple account.Will see how it goes over the weekend.It would help if BA added more options to the purple BA.(then mabe they could charge a fee for it).
Will be interesting to see how many move for the afternoon if Betfair goes down pre national.
Will be interesting to see how many move for the afternoon if Betfair goes down pre national.
i don't think it will take much more sh-t from betfair to start a mass exodus prerace the daq is more than level just need to smarten up their site and it will happen imho
daq couldnt handle an exodus, that's the reason laddies havent gone for the throat yet.
they have cash prizes for there tipping competition
AND THAT FLUSH GORDON IS THE WORST TIPSTER IN THE WORLD
Glad I stuck some dosh in to purple yesterday,betfair already freezing.Liquidity on fav good on purple Aintree 2.00
wish i could swap but in running liquidity to low for me
I can't fcukin' stand the place...winners never matched I/R (attempting to back) and the same for losers I've tried to lay 
Third Intention matched at 2.3 on here yet 2.7 wasn't taken there - it's a depressingly regular occurrence.
Third Intention matched at 2.3 on here yet 2.7 wasn't taken there - it's a depressingly regular occurrence.
Yet again...East Texas Red laid as low as 6.6 on here, but not matched at 27 over there!
Utterly bananas!
I've got money tied up on here in the National and don't want to deposit again, so I had a few quid in Betdiq and I've been playing around with that.
I don't think I'll be using them EVER again as this is a frighteningly regular scenario
Utterly bananas!
I've got money tied up on here in the National and don't want to deposit again, so I had a few quid in Betdiq and I've been playing around with that.
I don't think I'll be using them EVER again as this is a frighteningly regular scenario
I'm not convinced that In-running will be very high on their agenda, unfortunately.
You can be sure of getting a better price on any "not offs" they get wind of.
right now ....
just 3 horses in the national field bigger on betfair than daq (barely), the majority same priced but zero comms means in effect whole field is better priced @ purple
just 3 horses in the national field bigger on betfair than daq (barely), the majority same priced but zero comms means in effect whole field is better priced @ purple
diddy i got a free £20.00 bet for finishing 3rd in feb
WELL DONE CUSTER ,ITS FLUSH GORDON IM GETTING MIXED UP WITH THE TIPS ON THE HORSES ,YOUR THE BAD TIPSTER ON WHICH BATTLES TO FIGHT
ONE OF MY AMERICAN RELATIONS HAD ALL HIS RUDTLING MONEY ON YOU TO WIN THAT BIGHORN BATTLE,AFTER ALL YOUR BRAGGING IN THE HORSESHOE SALOON
ITS A GOOD JOB HE HAD A SAVER YOU TO BE SCALPED BEFORE 5 O CLOCK
ITS A GOOD JOB HE HAD A SAVER YOU TO BE SCALPED BEFORE 5 O CLOCK
ITS A GOOD JOB HE HAD A SAVER YOU TO BE SCALPED BEFORE 5 O CLOCK
ITS A GOOD JOB HE HAD A SAVER YOU TO BE SCALPED BEFORE 5 O CLOCK
ALOT OF PEOPLE IN TAXAS SAY YOUTHREW THAT BATTLE AND IT WAS A FIX
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