C4s viewing figures for The Festival......

It will be a growing trend falling figures as the older generation who are far less likely to have RUK die off and the younger ones who like racing may have RUK and other just dont follow racing as much as previous generations.

Must piss the big books off, wall to wall adverts, every media outlet in their pockets, and viewers dropping like flies.

It would surely follow that, anybody who is paying a subscription to RUK - is hardly likely to watch Ch4..... whatever their views may be, either way.

I like Mick Fitz but he's on telly more than Phillip Schofield

Had to be the worse coverage of a major Sporting Event ever...

The camera angles were all wrong and it was not worth backing a horse each-way as you never saw a finish after the winner passed the post.

Rancid operation....

and the powers that be still wont address the issues

bring back Big Mac

Bring back the black and white coverage of the 1950's...At least you could see what was going on...


Rancid coverage this year - As for the presenters I could do a better job myself...

CH4 coverage was pathetic no doubt but you have to be one of THE biggest mugs on this forum - anything, no matter what it is, you can do it better, a true jack of all trades and master of f**k all

If you are referring to me braq98 - Then yes I can do it better and bigger and further and higher....

You I can imagine can probably do it all in reverse proportion...

Has anybody considered the possibility that Channel4 figures are down because Analogue Tv finished after last year's Festival ?

Had an each way on one race as well as my mate. Was on phone with him watching RUK coverage shouting it home for a place and he asked me how it was doing. I said - I thought you was watching the race on Channel 4? His reply - I am but they are just showing he horse in front.

Bring back big mac

Yes he will bring the viewers back shouting time out and dressing up like ali baba

Big mac is far better than the current mob of cardboard cut outs

Get zodaic or GT-mole dressed as the pope on the program and the figures will go through the roof

Boooom

one aspect that might have been missed; last year there were still plenty of analogue transmitters operating, the last few were turned off post chelt 2012 up to about now (north east guys will confirm if theirs has gone but was due to go spring 2013 and was one of the last?)

anyone betting in running with half a brain would have been watching on c4 analogue if they could get it

not sure these days how they even measure what we are watching, in the old days they used to guesstimate from the national grid usage when adverts started or programmes ended , feck knows now

Elise,
I refer you to my 10.34 post!

apologies, i did read the thread but missed your comment

There must be some character out there who can broadcast what is going on in the ring that is not owned by bookmakers.

From being 0.5 seconds behind live on Analogue (and at least that far in front of Turf Tv) to being 2.8 seconds behind Turf is a massive reason that the figures are down.

i had two analogue feeds, i lost one in late 2011 and the second in march 2012, i think at least two were still running or expected to run until feb 2013 but not checked if they got the chop

i know the n.e. one was still running through the olympics because wazza posted about it during the games

Analogue Tv ended on 24th October,2012(Northern Ireland being the last to go).

i read something a while back about a couple of areas being late to shut down, but as i said i never checked, if they have gone then fair enough

i never watched more than a few mins of their coverage, mainly post race interviews as they got to the riders first etc, other than that never looked at it

they should have had a non rishi day, maybe they could have raised the figures just on that move

There are a number of problems. The show lacks gravitas and there is no chemistry between the presenters.

It's like everyone doing their own little thing without the humour, banter and ad libs that we enjoyed with high flyer.

Francome and Mcgrath had an understanding. John was funny, Jim laughed.

Alistair waxed lyrical, just like Nick but somehow, with more character.

Mccririck provided controversy and character that is lost to many. And Tanya was only ever a foil.

Plenty on here seemed to crave the bare bones without the "show".

But most probably wanted to be entertained.

channel 4 was the most boring coverage i have ever seen , it made atr look exciting

if it is not broke dont fix it

unless viewing figures were already dropping why change...
personel will come and go over time,  but keep the same formula
for this type of program, viewers prefer the familiar imo....

not the same without big mac threatning paying customers or the craziness of thommo

The loonies who make these decisions simply don't understand the english psyche which in many respects is about feeling comfortable and most importantly about familiarity. Has all the hallmarks of the ITV love in with foodball a few years back and that fiasco. I'm fortunate to have RUK and there simply is no comparison. Mellish and Lydia are well clear of the rest. Started to watch the ML on Saturday for first time in a long time and as soon as that loud bore opened his mouth I switched over. It was crap. Sure all of us remember and now miss the good old days with Big Mac and Francs. My god do they miss those two. And Alastair who gives a calmness and on course Big fella Thommo who incidentally did a sterling job on radio 2. By the way rather listen to the commentary on the radio than watch C4 these days. C4 should start to panic because they will lose their audience and getting it back is going to be extremely difficult. Where has all the laughter and banter gone?

i was with you until you sayed tommo and sterling.

Bawlding was awful imo. She only has one style and thats to treat everything as its the most important thing ever when in fact it isnt, which dilutes the impact of the big races. Richi isnt fit for purpose and whilst i dont mind lord snooty he isnt going to attract many new viewers with his condescension.

But the last thing I want to see on my screen is Tommo he is an utter c0ckwobble so for that at least I am grateful and they will get better eventually with the use of the Sheppard crook for a few I am afraid.

Agree with the criticism of focusing entirely upon the winner, after every race -.

Simply showing it walking round in circles - and telling us the obvious - such as, "look at the delight on his face - it means everything to ride a winner  at Cheltenham."......

INSTEAD of a replay of the finish - so that we could ascertain the PLACED horses - especially in large field Handicaps.

Where to start , Powers that be seem to think they can popularise racing with BBC dross , when all they managed to do was get it closed down . Almost a Derby Day repeat with no attention paid to anything but leading fancies , winner , and major race of the day . Core audience should be everybody on this forum and its becoming the opposite .
Camera work deteriorating , commentary more sensationalist , absolutely idiotic push button screen (no your not modern , just idiots ), stupid 2 sec shots of past races that noone sensible cud want , and moronic quizzes . Jim and Ted beacons in a barren landscape , how much to get Francs back , and are sponsors panicking , if not they should be.

Core audience should be everybody on this forum and its becoming the opposite .

the c4 racing & morning line has never been tailored towards proper racing fans, more the casual weekend punter

they can't compete with dedicated channels, the formats as they stand are pointless and the differential they thought they were getting in changing the line ups isn't right either

without fast pics, jockey cams, some trainer insight or an in running gimmick such as speed of horse, sectional timing etc they are just padding out the options we have of where to watch

any of that can be replicated anyway so the chances of them being the best is slight

right now they are at number 5 in my list of where to watch

what were the actual figures? A piece in The Guardian suggests they were slightly up for the first two days but doesn't give any numbers and is a generally a bit vague. They were down for Thursday (65,000 down on 2012) and I think you have to factor in the lack of a Kauto Star in the figures  for Friday because he was a name that people outside of the regulars identified with and were interested in.

Before anyone accuses me of being an apologist for C4 I thought the failure to pick up who finished in the places (re: Queen Mother Champion Chase) was just plain awful and dropping Alistair Down was a mistake IMO.

But it would be nice to know exactly how much down they were on 2012.

Well, I must be the only one who prefers the new format. I much prefer it without the boorish Big Mac and the toe curling Thommo. Cattermole would have been a much better option than Rishi as he has a far superior understanding of the sport and as I don't watch the show for tips, I would have kept on Francome - if he wanted to of course.

I have ATR and RUK I have not watched a race on C4 for many years.

Tend to agree pixie. New format is far from perfect, and certainly needs some tweaking, but no more McCririck and Thommo is at least a sign they're trying to move the coverage on.

Regardless of her irritating media persona, Balding is a top class presenter imv

The morning line so full of adds..J Kyle..........ages before they actually do a race.............any new viewere must get boared quick & once the likes of Kyle appear im off........

THe last proper coverage of the Cheltenham Festival on terrestrial TV was 1995 when the BBC covered it for the last time.

Onlooker touched on the most basic problem when he mentioned the post race shambles that C4 introduced when they took over.

The over emphasis on the winner, the air punching, the inane 'what does it feel like' questions, the 10 minute walk back to the winners enclosure focusing on 1 horse and the faces of idiotic punters over celebrating because they know they are on TV. Then it is all repeated as we watch the winner enter the winners enclosure to air punching yet again, whilst we listen to over eulogising commentators with nothing revealing to say.

The BBC would, as soon as the race was over, replay the race from various angles with expert analysis and insights into the way the race unfolded, giving the other runners as well as the winner recognition for the part they played in the unfolding drama. This would take about 5 minutes and end just as the horses entered the winners enclosure when, for the one and only time, we could enjoy briefly the atmosphere of celebration without over egging the sentimentality.

In terms of replays on C4 we are 'lucky' if we see slow motion pics of the winner's nasal hairs as he passes the winning post.

C4's coverage is as dumbed down and insulting to the intelligence as it could possibly be.

Good point, Loper.

They did do a very interesting slot.............."where do you stand"

'replay the race from various angles'....

Really?

Yes, the Henderson daughters assumed that everyone has their own private box.

They would be traumatised if they thought they'd have to stand in the cold and the rain.

if they really cared then Channel 4 need to ask themselves, and me, why someone like me (and apparently many others on here) who is very interested in Racing and yet I haven't watched their raceday coverage and/or the Morning Line for several years.

every time I think I will give it another go I usually only last a few minutes before I turn over/off

pretty much all the reasons have been highlighted in this thread

they dont get it and really dont want to get it either, no criticism of anyone in racing, no awkward questions to jockeys or trainers about anything

It's very rare that I agree with loper (!)but he's spot on here.

C4 coverage has revelled in the "human interest" angle and it's much the poorer for that.

As for the comments of one James Aitchison of C4  in today's Post that "race coverage was excellent"' well words fail me!

Giving the 'Ethnically appointed one' .... because THAT is ALL that IT IS. .... 'The 'Whizz' -

Would be a well-received starting point.

Balding, snooty and cunningham I can do without, Balding on tv far too much

have you ever thought C4 might be trying to widen the audience? it aint just for you racing nerds ... and you need the human interest stuff for that

People who aren't interested in racing aren't going to be watching in the first place,Reged.

^ CORRECT ..... and NEVER will, either.

The convenient dirty scope to free McCoy for SDC was bought by almost all presenters - on air anyway - though i thought Neessom was itching to have a go. Down - apparently much loved here made no comment on ATR.

Maybe they thought that employing the BBC crew would bring over the beeb audience;if so they should have brought the cameramen not the gravy trainers!

camera work was **** all week

Figures for the Thursday, 650,000... 90,000 down on last year !



C4 have the Grand National this year.......... 

IMG is probably the force behind the "human interest" coverage (noted by parispike) -- that is how the Breeders Cup is covered in the US. (The Olympics too, from what I've heard.)

The Morning Line was a shambles under Highflyer and is no better now. Its core audience is casual racing fans who work during the week and want pointers for the afternoon's racing. How hard is that to understand? Just preview the sodding races.

It looks like the death of live coverage on terrestrial t.v. is imminent !

sorry but I disagree ... whether they are going to watch racing is one thing, whether C4 would LIKE a wider audience to watch racing, and therefore boost the ad market and revenues, is another ... Don't forget, there's a big bored afternoon audience out there and what immediately follows the racing? Deal Or No Deal usually. You can't seriously think C4 is going to be happy with just having hard-core punters like yourselves! You are not living in the real world.

C4 seem unsure of their target audience, right now it's caught between many stools

It's pretty clear they're not interested in real racing fans because

a) the time delay (i listened to festival radio and watched C4 with sound off and there was at least a couple of seconds)

b) i backed tetlami in the last race and there was an absolutely shocking view of the fence where he fell and brought down another runner, all those cameras and not one front view??

c) the complete lack of 'good' betting information - tanya had several negatives on the exchanges which as far as I could tell were at least holding their price and some (i think including HF) actually decreasing

d) absolutely stupid 'fillers' such as where I stand!!

The presenters are only part of the overall picture - I'm glad to see McCririck and Thommo (especially) gone, but in no way shape or form are rishi/cunningham an improvement.  I think they're collectively trying to dumb it down for the 'countdown-deal' viewers. 

Racing has enough appeal to stand up as a sport/industry on its own (IMO) without all the hoopla - all we need are great horses/jockeys/courses, which we certainly have in abundance at the festival.  I understand it can't just be a 'terrestrial' RUK or even ATR, but more focus on the racing itself would be a good starting point - however I also understand there is a limited viewership for this type of programme on an afternoon when many serious fanatics are already either at cheltenham, in the bookies or in a bar watching RUK

They've actually used Alan Carr (sic) at Cheltenham to promote the Grand National !




Your points are well observed !

ruk ,ok.picture quality better.ch 4, useless.

cunningham ,patronizing,trying to tell punters the form,everybody already knows about.YAWN.

but thats the point db, the audience they are after doesnt study form like we do

People who aren't interested in racing aren't going to be watching in the first place,Reged.

very true roggrain

they are if they've got nothing better to do of an afternoon and it can be made to have wider appeal ... more personality, "humnan interest" based, with great video of the runners (from an aesthetic rather than racing perspective). Maybe a lot of people aren't so interested in racing, but there's an awful lot like horses

So if C4 is not for the likes of us - who know our racing. And those that aren't interested, wont be watching. Who is the audience they are aiming at ?

Lets be honest, Big Mac brought a little colour to the program and he was only on a matter of minutes, Tanya on her own has as much perso laity of a dead fish!!

Two obvious things I spotted:

- Instead of sending Rishi down to the start to tell us all the horses are in excellent nick why not employ an ex-jockey who really knows what he is looking for and can provide an expert opinion?  Not Mick Fitz though!

- The normally excellent Simon Holt spent the early stages of each race giving us past history and stats. He wasn't providing commentary and missed plenty dodgy jumps etc, Long Run at the first in the Gold Cup being the most notable one.

rue-the- day     17 Mar 13 17:58 
Lets be honest, Big Mac brought a little colour to the program and he was only on a matter of minutes, Tanya on her own has as much perso laity of a dead fish!!




Wish you 'd shut up - you're constantly on here giving crap !!

I would say for your Saturday afternoon and big meeting punter..not someone who would be betting every day
so would not pay out for racing channels.....
I would say there is an audience, probably regulars of many years...so you change at your peril
just my opinion

answer to facts post

Thanks eG - it beats me who they're aiming at.Whoever it is, they're failing.

eg, I don't think pure racing fans are enough to provide a large enough audience for a mainstream free to air TV channel

There used to be...but that was before racing channels

Facts do you make a profit year in year out! I guess not just another knob jockey on here as nothing better today, aslo were u at the festival? Again u prob could nt afford the £90 entrance fee

McCririck- a joke, clown...what has he to offer to modern racing? John, retire and enjoy yourself.
Posh bird-out of her depth.
Francombe- a guy that's done it all, well worth listening to, especially on news from small yards.
McGrath- Not sure why C4 should employ a guy that is advertising Timeform.
Luck- Smarmy but has potential if he relaxes and doesn't assume punters eat cake.
Walsh- I want to hear his thoughts, biased or not.
Rishi- A complete waste of space and viewers are being robbed by paying his wages. Why is he here?
Balding- A big challenge for her but she works hard, is professional and will learn and progress.
Fitzgerald- A total aftertiming embaressment.
Plunkett- Who knows? Token woman?

Needless to say, I highlighted presenters that have been on our screens over the last few years, not necessarily at the festival.

And I'm sorry that I feel I need to say this. Let's all try and be fair here please.

Is Rishi there because previously the bbc and now C4 feel they have to have a non-white presenter?

Let me say I am not biased in any way, whether it be colour or sexual orientation etc.

Betfair, please be kind enough to let this run.  If it gets out of hand, please pull it right away.

My pet hate is jockeys just winning a Festival race, still catching their breath after possibly the moment of their sporting life, and being asked about future races

...' how does/did that feel ?'



FFS !

Jamie Aitchison (C4 sports editor), according to the Post actually said, "Race coverage was excellent, which is ALMOST the most important thing". Sums 'em up...so what is the most important thing then?

programme has went downhill since change of format,morning line is poor also now I stopped watching it a couple of weeks ago the people they have brought in are terrible
cunn-according to him everything is going win
fitz-just wants to talk about Henderson horses
pers-boring as fk
balding-only one that I think is ok

adverts

WHO is Jamie Aitchison, to judge?

He isn't a household name in Racing Circles.

Probably knows more about Beach VollyBall than Horse Racing.

Chelters was as bad as it gets... roll on Aintree !

Please don't let it mean that at Aintree Rishi is chasing after exhausted horses and jockeys, thrusting his microphone in faces and saying his one line a year.. "how does that feel to win bla bla bla".  We deserve better than that.
  Let's listen to racing professionals that can analyse and dissect a race, consider tactics employed and be fair but critical in their summary if need be.

Here, here !

Looks like the immediate pointless interviews with jockey are here for good, if not longer.
It is as annoying as the producer in tennis broadcasting continually going to close ups of the players family in between play and close ups of a player wiping his head with a towel.

TBF I did like it when Rishi asked when the Martin plot began :D Not that he'd ever get s straight answer to that question.

If you wish to interview the jockey why not leave it till he has dismounted, talked to trainer and owners and at least got his breath back?
  The last thing a very tired horse and jockey need at the end of their race is to be pursued by mobile cameras and non-racing people with microphones.

The last thing a very tired horse and jockey need at the end of their race is to be pursued by Alice

Turn round and do another circuit

IN THE 50S AND 60S THERE WAS LOADS OF RACE  MEETINGS ON THE B B C ,ITS HAD ITS DAY LIKE DOG RACING AND CROWN GREEN BOWLING

AND WRESTLING

AND TEN PIN BOWLING

Is Plunket a long lost relative of the "Diddymen"?
I only ask because I have never seen more ridiculous hats on an extremely ugly woman.

Indeed , a pic off one off those hats on the mantlpiece would soon keep the kids from the fireplace

maybe they arnt hats , she might be some kind of hermit crab/woman and she lives in it after racing is over

The whole thing of interviewing the jockey right after the race is taken straight from American coverage of big meetings - they'll be putting Rishi on horseback soon to do it before long.

Which could be quite amusing tbf

i miss francome, love him or hate him he had an edgeiness, i thought his double act with McGrath was pretty good and they seemed to have a genuine respect for each other without slavishly backing each other up. I would far rather hear his views on the paddock or at the start than Richi, his voice also broke up the monotonousness drone of the BBC english that all the other presenters seem to have polished down to a fine art.

Cunningham wasnt very good was he, I quite like the man but not sure of his competence on jump racing form and if he aint the "expert" on this has no real business being there, would it not be possible for the C4 team to have pundits that specialized in both flat and jump racing?