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ONTHEBIT
31 Jan 13 18:05
Joined:
Date Joined: 12 Feb 06
| Topic/replies: 283 | Blogger: ONTHEBIT's blog
I had £24 @16 and £2.50 @ 18.5 and only drawed £188.63 before comm.
Pause Switch to Standard View How are dead heats calculated on...
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Report Chonaic January 31, 2013 6:07 PM GMT
Second time in two days ive had a dead heat and received less than 50% of what I should have, disgraceful.
Report Roquebrune January 31, 2013 6:08 PM GMT
Half of both stake and price?
Report Gerbs January 31, 2013 6:08 PM GMT
same as every where else
half the stake at the odds you got
Report Virgin January 31, 2013 6:10 PM GMT
post more often please Mischief
Report ONTHEBIT January 31, 2013 6:11 PM GMT
Half stakes should have paid me £215.13p before comm.
Report Gerbs January 31, 2013 6:11 PM GMT
was there any nrs
Report Virgin January 31, 2013 6:12 PM GMT
That's better Wink
Report Virgin January 31, 2013 6:12 PM GMT
How could you pick Sir Dylan  Confused
Report Chonaic January 31, 2013 6:13 PM GMT
17.57 @ 9.2, return of 63.26 ?????????
Report Deltâ January 31, 2013 6:13 PM GMT
Dead Heats are a con on Betfair - as its person to person betting - not like a bookmaker - so they shouldnt keep half as there is no liabilty on the other winner - all wrong...
Report ONTHEBIT January 31, 2013 6:13 PM GMT
Nothing withdrawn at the off Gerbs and markets are deducted at the time of withdrawal for any earlier withdrawals.
Report onlooker January 31, 2013 6:14 PM GMT
£24  @ 16  =

£12 @ 15/1 = £180 winnings ... LESS £12 of £24 Stake LOST = £168 winnings - Less Commission

£250 @ 18.5 =

£1-25 @ 17.5/1 = £21-87 winnings .... Les £1-25 Stake LOST = £20-62 winnings - Less commission

TOTAL Winnings = £188.62 - Less Commission.
Report Stake & Chips January 31, 2013 6:15 PM GMT
Have you factored in the premium charge to you're calculations m8?
Report Gerbs January 31, 2013 6:15 PM GMT
Industry Standard
Our Dead Heat rule gives the same payout as if a customer were to bet in a betting shop or online with a traditional bookmaker. The reason that some backers feel this is not the case is because they forget that in a betting shop, they hand their stake over the counter and the amount returned includes the winning half of the stake. On Betfair, they have not paid the losing half of the stake to the layer up front so their profit / loss shown on the statement needs to reflect this.
Report Deltâ January 31, 2013 6:16 PM GMT
yes - still not right
Report ONTHEBIT January 31, 2013 6:16 PM GMT
Chronaic you should have got £80.82 if its half stakes.
Report Deltâ January 31, 2013 6:17 PM GMT
Gerbs - but the bookie takes bets on lots of horses, so has to pay on the other winner too - person to person single to single on here - no other liabilty on other dead heater - its like a tax they keep
Report Virgin January 31, 2013 6:17 PM GMT
Just like buses Crazy
Report Stake & Chips January 31, 2013 6:18 PM GMT
Delta is correct.
Report Gerbs January 31, 2013 6:19 PM GMT
Deltâ
   
so betfair make more money from a DH than they do in  a normal race ?
Report Stake & Chips January 31, 2013 6:20 PM GMT
Yes
Report Ylime January 31, 2013 6:20 PM GMT
Thank you
Report Deltâ January 31, 2013 6:21 PM GMT
yeah

phone customer services and say you want the slush money back as its unfair, see what they say... can only ask...
Report ONTHEBIT January 31, 2013 6:21 PM GMT
Onlooker your calculations wouls appear to explain it but why is the losing stake deducted from the winnings?
Report elise January 31, 2013 6:22 PM GMT
it's days like this you wish t.thunder would pop up and explain it in his own unique way
Report stattman January 31, 2013 6:22 PM GMT
Virgin
Your old mate Big Sam tipped sir dylan Grin
Report Deltâ January 31, 2013 6:22 PM GMT
two dead heats today too - betfair laughing...
Report Stake & Chips January 31, 2013 6:22 PM GMT
You will get band if you call custoner services imo Sad
Report Deltâ January 31, 2013 6:23 PM GMT
perhaps a call out thread for BCM2 then is the way forward...
Report Deltâ January 31, 2013 6:24 PM GMT
he seems to always answer quickly...
Report Sechar January 31, 2013 6:25 PM GMT
Stake: £17.57
Price: 9.2

£17.57 X 9.2/2 - £17.57   =  £63.26

or if you prefer

£17.57 X 8.2/2 - £17.57/2  = £63.26
Report Chonaic January 31, 2013 6:28 PM GMT
Thanks Sechar, i was only subtracting half the stake after multiplying by the full stake.
Report elise January 31, 2013 6:29 PM GMT
chompy comes in  about now and say he's backed dylan at 1.7 in the photo, cleaned up from the mugs ....
Report Sechar January 31, 2013 6:36 PM GMT
Stake: £24
Price: 16

£24 X 16/2 - £24   =  £168

or if you prefer

£24 X 15/2 - £24/2  = £168

Stake: £2.50
Price: 18.5

£2.5 X 18.5/2 - £2.50   =  £20.63

or if you prefer

£2.50 X 17.5/2 - £2.50/2  = £20.63

So: £168 + £20.63 = £188.63
Report Virgin January 31, 2013 6:51 PM GMT
stattman    Ta Plain
Report timbuctooth January 31, 2013 6:51 PM GMT
onthebit

think of it the other way around. Yhe LAYER laid 24 pounds at 16. Normally, he wins 24 or loses 360. With a dead-heat, the layer only loses half. So he loses 180 to the succesful half of the dead- heat, but he also WINS the unsuccesful half of your bet, in this case, 12. So, the layer loses 180 minus 12, net loss 168. Half of your bet was a loser, which means half of the layer`s bet was profitable for him.

One or two people on here really should know better.
Report ONTHEBIT January 31, 2013 6:58 PM GMT
Ahh I got it now, thanks timbuctooth, thanks for your help and thanks Onlooker and Sechar, appreciate it.
Report Deltâ January 31, 2013 7:23 PM GMT
+  and Deltâ...
Report Ylime January 31, 2013 7:29 PM GMT
Thank you
Report Deltâ January 31, 2013 7:30 PM GMT
sometimes I wonder why I even bother to help the newbies....
Report racingguru January 31, 2013 7:36 PM GMT
Delta - sorry if I'm being dumb here but how does the fact that this is p2p make any difference to how the rules should be for dead-heats??

So the layer should payout as a full winner and other layers should payout on the other dead heater?? Why would they want to do that and why should ANY backer expect that?? Liquidity on here if f all as it is so why not put layers off a bit more by having daft rules like that. By the way I'm a backer like most.
Report Reged November 13, 2014 12:44 PM GMT
Just picked up on this and, altho it's old, thought it worth putting in the official explanation in case someone else like me trawls it up. BF basically follows bookie rules, which I think is unfair on the backers especially at low prices - ie if an odds-on dead heats you will lose money as a backer - even though you 'won'.

From Betfair's rules:

For each bet matched on a relevant winning selection, the stake money is first reduced in proportion by multiplying it by the sum of the number of winners expected (as set out in the Market Information), divided by the number of actual winners (i.e. stake multiplied by (number of winners expected/number of actual winners)). The winnings are then paid to the successful backers on this 'reduced stake' (reduced stake multiplied by traded price) and the remaining stake money is paid to the appropriate layers.

For example, assume there is a dead heat for first place between three horses. 'Client A' has backed one of the winners for a stake of 300 at the traded price of 4.0 and 'Client B' has taken the other side of this bet. When the event is settled, the stake (300) is multiplied by 1/3 (i.e. the number of expected winners (1) divided by the number of actual winners (3)) to calculate the reduced stake (100) and the remainder given to the layer (200). The backer then receives the traded price matched (4.0) multiplied by the reduced stake (4 x 100 = 400). In this example, Client A's net winnings are 100 (400 payout minus the original 300 stake), and Client B's net losses are 100. Alternatively, this can be viewed as the full amount paid to the traded price divided by the number of dead-heaters. In the above example this would be 300 at the traded price of 4.0 (1200) divided by 3; making 400 payout and 100 net winnings.

By way of another example, assume there is an outright winner in a golf tournament but 7 players tie for 2nd place. In the "top 5 finish" market, after settling on the outright winner in the top 5 market there would be 4 other designated winners places available. 'Client A' has backed one of the winners for 300 at the traded price of 4.0 and 'Client B' has taken the other side of this bet. When the event is settled, the stake (300) is multiplied by 4/7 (i.e. the number of expected winners (4) divided by the number of actual winners (7)) to calculate the reduced stake (171.43) and the remainder given to the layer (128.57). The backer then receives the traded price matched (4.0) multiplied by the reduced stake (4 x 171.43 = 685.72). In this example, Client A's net winnings are 385.72 (685.72 payout minus the original 300 stake), and Client B's net losses are 385.72.
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