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I've seldom commentated on any thread before but...
Seriously you guys need to take a breath..... Instead of blaming your superiors (by that I mean the guys who kept you on track during and after the negotiations) but start addressing the real problem.....there's too many of you for all of you to make it pay!
I'm an avid race goer, all over the country and have been for longer than I wish to know, and through that time I would like to believe I've developed an understanding of how you guys operate. So this is the word of a punter, who would rather go to a course for the buzz than sit in the warmth with a cup of tea getting the 'best price'.
My wish would be for this thread to develop into a constructive view of the on course industry, without falling into school playground vibes, I am anonymous, BUT I am your customer, some of you I will know through your user names, many I will not, but this is an open forum and I will not attempt to discover any of you, I simply want a debate.
So 1st point, you guys standing in awful picks, expecting the 'riches' that the guys standing in 'good' picks are 'receiving', this is crap......number 1 pick has more chance of making a profit these days purely due to turnover - they will be the same 'tight' margins as the guys on the third row.
2 Why is this? One answer....exchanges the small back row bookie can now hedge the same bet as the front row bookie, the big difference is the AMOUNT that will be hedged and the price + back row bookies always look at the exchange price before saying yes
3 The lack of bookies who can calculate the 'big picture' on a race. In relation to a meeting/festival
4 Too scared to go above exchange price, even if your own form says it can’t win
5 NO ONE TAKES AN OPINION
6 GOD DAMN IT IF YOU GET ARB, IF YOU'RE A GOOD JUDGE, ARBERS WELCOME!!!!!!!
7 If I’d mentioned it higher it would have been higher but seriously place terms??????? 3 years ago, you either a)win only b)we, with reduced win prices, c)over broke on the places and prayed to god - lol I would like to know over the year - not just a couple of 'dodgy handicaps' how many professional layers lost on overall places in a financial year???
8 I have no problem with the smaller books finding it hard, it’s a supply and demand world and yes if the exchanges weren’t there the guy on the third row would be better odds than pick 1, until you ask for a bet with a liability greater than £500 quid, where you will be told 'No I can’t have it back' -strange how if this were an Arber it would have been refused lol
So what am I saying.... probably not a lot, but the on course layers lack of form knowledge these days, and religious following of exchange prices up or down, has never (in the main) created stronger betting shows for the shops and believe it or not generous SP's for the shops.
Every on course bookie I've noticed on here is mostly below the exchange price, but would the lay that particulare selection above what they could lay it at, just ti avoid another bok 'getting one over them' -WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THETRUTHHURSTS - - who btw if he cocentatred on his actual performance instead of writing hat York isANGRY ALL THE TIME would probably realise that York is awful becasue he hasn't invested enough in a pitch for him to stand the moral ground on pricing races.
Seriously you guys need to take a breath..... Instead of blaming your superiors (by that I mean the guys who kept you on track during and after the negotiations) but start addressing the real problem.....there's too many of you for all of you to make it pay!
I'm an avid race goer, all over the country and have been for longer than I wish to know, and through that time I would like to believe I've developed an understanding of how you guys operate. So this is the word of a punter, who would rather go to a course for the buzz than sit in the warmth with a cup of tea getting the 'best price'.
My wish would be for this thread to develop into a constructive view of the on course industry, without falling into school playground vibes, I am anonymous, BUT I am your customer, some of you I will know through your user names, many I will not, but this is an open forum and I will not attempt to discover any of you, I simply want a debate.
So 1st point, you guys standing in awful picks, expecting the 'riches' that the guys standing in 'good' picks are 'receiving', this is crap......number 1 pick has more chance of making a profit these days purely due to turnover - they will be the same 'tight' margins as the guys on the third row.
2 Why is this? One answer....exchanges the small back row bookie can now hedge the same bet as the front row bookie, the big difference is the AMOUNT that will be hedged and the price + back row bookies always look at the exchange price before saying yes
3 The lack of bookies who can calculate the 'big picture' on a race. In relation to a meeting/festival
4 Too scared to go above exchange price, even if your own form says it can’t win
5 NO ONE TAKES AN OPINION
6 GOD DAMN IT IF YOU GET ARB, IF YOU'RE A GOOD JUDGE, ARBERS WELCOME!!!!!!!
7 If I’d mentioned it higher it would have been higher but seriously place terms??????? 3 years ago, you either a)win only b)we, with reduced win prices, c)over broke on the places and prayed to god - lol I would like to know over the year - not just a couple of 'dodgy handicaps' how many professional layers lost on overall places in a financial year???
8 I have no problem with the smaller books finding it hard, it’s a supply and demand world and yes if the exchanges weren’t there the guy on the third row would be better odds than pick 1, until you ask for a bet with a liability greater than £500 quid, where you will be told 'No I can’t have it back' -strange how if this were an Arber it would have been refused lol
So what am I saying.... probably not a lot, but the on course layers lack of form knowledge these days, and religious following of exchange prices up or down, has never (in the main) created stronger betting shows for the shops and believe it or not generous SP's for the shops.
Every on course bookie I've noticed on here is mostly below the exchange price, but would the lay that particulare selection above what they could lay it at, just ti avoid another bok 'getting one over them' -WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THETRUTHHURSTS - - who btw if he cocentatred on his actual performance instead of writing hat York isANGRY ALL THE TIME would probably realise that York is awful becasue he hasn't invested enough in a pitch for him to stand the moral ground on pricing races.
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it looks like, you have only your self to blame, with the mess you books are in
In the near future when the grey and silver heads have exited the stage
visiting most mid week racecourses will be like camping on the tundra.
visiting most mid week racecourses will be like camping on the tundra.
What surprises me,is the fact that bookmakers backing them back at bigger odds on the exchanges has been going on for a number of years,yet is talked about as if it something new.
I can remember having a lumpy bet years ago,and the clerk telling the "bet taker" what was available on the exchange,before I had even left the joint.That had to be at least 6 years,or more,ago.
I can remember having a lumpy bet years ago,and the clerk telling the "bet taker" what was available on the exchange,before I had even left the joint.That had to be at least 6 years,or more,ago.
Roo,you are spot on but most don't understand it,if you ask a lot of books for a bet they go into defence mode and think they are being shafted,most don't know any better,they think all they have to do is put everything a notch under whats on here and hey presto,thats the main reason when everybody is moaning about their lot i don't have much sympathy,its in their own hands.
ALL MY BEST PUNTERS ON THE RACECOURSE ARE COMMISSION AGENTS,THE LIST IS ENDLESS
Would your attitude be the same ribero if you were trying to work on pitches on the back line and in anticipation of one line of argument without the means to buy a far superior pick ?
heres a suggestion
when signing in at the badge box those books who want to keep money in the ring can notify the brm who can then hand out at pitch time a list of all those who want to hedge on course and are willing to lay those books on the list ,it might work it might not but it must be worth a try who knows it might catch on,ribero is right at the moment you aks some books for a bet the go on the defence,at least this way you know your not going to get a pathetic knock back.
when signing in at the badge box those books who want to keep money in the ring can notify the brm who can then hand out at pitch time a list of all those who want to hedge on course and are willing to lay those books on the list ,it might work it might not but it must be worth a try who knows it might catch on,ribero is right at the moment you aks some books for a bet the go on the defence,at least this way you know your not going to get a pathetic knock back.
As i pointed out earlier i used to hedge only in the ring so think i'm pretty well qualified to comment,some books just refuse to give you a bet,i still have bets back in the ring and have a few bets myself but now i restrict it to where i will be well recieved,would also add i never challenged anybody in order to embarrass them.
Not sure what you mean,i have plenty of respect for some lads on the back lines,i just think we are all shooting ourselves in the foot from everywhere in the ring,i'm sure plenty don't have any respect for me either,no prob.
Not sure what you mean,i have plenty of respect for some lads on the back lines,i just think we are all shooting ourselves in the foot from everywhere in the ring,i'm sure plenty don't have any respect for me either,no prob.
Jimnast,thats fair enough but i think most in the north know i'm happy to take bets off other books,i probably get asked for about 1 bet a week!
ribero i realise at the moment theres very few bets going around amongst ourselves but if the effort was made before a days racing and enough got involved it would be a start and should increase the bets going around the ring,after all most of us work around moaning about how much is leaving the ring has the time not arrived for efforts to be made even if its only %10 of the ring or even 5 its a start.just think what we could all do with the commision saved.
RIBERO - 'WE ARE ALL SHOOTING OURSELVES IN THE FOOT FROM EVERYWHERE IN THE RING' THATS A NEW POSITION FOR YOU SURELY ? YOU ARE HALF ADMITTING THAT THE TOO MANY BOOKS CHASING TOO LITTLE MONEY IS NOT JUST THE FAULT OF THE LITTLE GUY TURNING UP GRAFTING ON A BACK LINE, BUT THAT THE MULTI PITCH OPERATORS/RENTERS ARE ALSO PART OF THE PROBLEM ?
Jim- the approach would work if everbody could be classified as a bookmaker in the ring, the commission agents wouldnt have it they would be terrified of not getting on and having to stand one for more than 50 quid
jimnast - as I have previously posted the best way to get a start on your suggestion is to form committees at every track and have meetings with the management to get ideas like yours into play.Surely sometime in the near future, a ring of books will agree to not use the exchanges for hedging, if only for one day,and if that ever happens never forget.....large oaks grow from small acorns !!!
its a noble idea jimnast but the bottom line is that you would be handing an advantage to the rest of the ring so i think you may struggle to get books to follow,i would be happy to go along with it.
In fact this year i'm determined to have less money back in general,a lot of its probably down to being too opinionated but i can see how people have too much back when using the exchanges.
In fact this year i'm determined to have less money back in general,a lot of its probably down to being too opinionated but i can see how people have too much back when using the exchanges.
Mug,this was tried about 5-6 years ago at a midweek catterick n.h meeting,however it didn't really work as the firms probably chucked too much money at it and with there being not a lot of public money knocking about to balance the books several books said they couldn't cope and threw their teddies out of the pram.
If we learnt from that experience and choes a better day so not to have to rely on the firms money i'm sure it could work better however i'm not holding my breath!
If we learnt from that experience and choes a better day so not to have to rely on the firms money i'm sure it could work better however i'm not holding my breath!
mugbookie
the sooner the better,as you say if only for one day.
ribero
i dont see the rest of the ring having an advantage we can still look at the exchanges and if need be lay on them ,just any hedgeing done with one another ,we would all hold more and lets face it if you say had a 500/35 the chances are its only going to be 16 on the machine if not 15.5 as it would be in the midlands.
the sooner the better,as you say if only for one day.
ribero
i dont see the rest of the ring having an advantage we can still look at the exchanges and if need be lay on them ,just any hedgeing done with one another ,we would all hold more and lets face it if you say had a 500/35 the chances are its only going to be 16 on the machine if not 15.5 as it would be in the midlands.
all the books betting to standard terms would be a start
ribero
i wont be holding my breath either but something needs to be done,what we all need to pay to go to work we cant keep sending the cash back to those sat at home.
i wont be holding my breath either but something needs to be done,what we all need to pay to go to work we cant keep sending the cash back to those sat at home.
Ribero - It need apply just to Tatts - a group of silver ring books could try it.It is not going to be easy to achieve, but sooner or later it will happen because the margins we are currently operating at,together with the expense escalator we are on, will give us no option.
maxed the gc deny they know anything about the change of place terms,i am sure the racecourses could force bookmakers who bet on there tracks to bet to standard place terms.
I as a back line bookie would happily accept hedged bets all day, but it doesn't work that way in real life. If I'm the same price as a front line book with the big liability, then no hedging will take place. If I go bigger in an effort to attract punters from the front line, I can guarantee that the front line books will try and hit me before a punter can get anywhere near me, then in one foul swoop they have arbed me, stopped the racegoer from getting a better price and putting my price in line with theirs thus giving them back the advantage of a front line book.
My message to the punters out there is to always ask the lads at the back for a slightly bigger price than they are showing on the board. The commission agents wont accept it, but the books that will stand a bet will generally take it.
My message to the punters out there is to always ask the lads at the back for a slightly bigger price than they are showing on the board. The commission agents wont accept it, but the books that will stand a bet will generally take it.
Agree maxed,something simple and surely relatively easy to implement would indeed help considerably.
Mug,i misssed your earlier post,i was mainly meaning our slavish adherence to the exchanges but yes there will be quite a few midweek days which i will miss this year which i have attended in the past.
Mug,i misssed your earlier post,i was mainly meaning our slavish adherence to the exchanges but yes there will be quite a few midweek days which i will miss this year which i have attended in the past.
youvegotit
we all know which books are trying to arb just knock them back lay the books who are not trying to arb.
ribero
you go back to that day at catterick times have changed a lot since then,re the books who found it hard with the firms wanting to much on surely they could just lay them what there comfortable with.
we all know which books are trying to arb just knock them back lay the books who are not trying to arb.
ribero
you go back to that day at catterick times have changed a lot since then,re the books who found it hard with the firms wanting to much on surely they could just lay them what there comfortable with.
time for me to go now
mugbookie please feel free if our paths ever cross in tatts or a silver ring to suggest giving it a go ,i will do anything i can to get a start to keeping at least some money in the ring,i realise many who complain will find reasons for not wanting to give it a try.
mugbookie please feel free if our paths ever cross in tatts or a silver ring to suggest giving it a go ,i will do anything i can to get a start to keeping at least some money in the ring,i realise many who complain will find reasons for not wanting to give it a try.
Jimnast- I know you well, but I repeat, the way forward is for the books at a particular track ,to work with management of a particular track, after all although they dont know it, it is surely in their own interests to have a vibrant, competitive betting ring, rather than the bland, multi pitch -same price exchange led situation we currently have.
Personally like most books I've had a terrible year & I've had to sitback & think of an answer.I had to.Like most books I was getting carried away laying them on the machine,now I lay very little on here.My turnover has dropped quite significantly but at last I'm winning again.What I've decided & it seems to be working for me(over the last two months)is to just duck the shorteners & just not lay them.In the past I would have said"We.ve got to get them in to put the book right".Now I just say"Fu ck the book,if I'm standing several in a race rather than laying the shortener to put the book right(in Theory)I just stand them.If there's horses I don't fancy I'll top the machine (in the ring) if I have to in order to get them.By topping the machine & going the accepted each way terms when possible it's good for customer relations & I do believe it does bring repeat trade.As I say it does appear to be working,I do appear to have stopped the rot.How I'm working now is very much like I've worked at the points for years & that system has certainly done me no harm as plenty who know me pointing will testify.I would love to get some of these exchange brain washed books beside me at a point.
ALLPOINTS,ON THE CONTRARY I HAVE HAD A TERRIBLE LAST FOUR MONTHS THE STRIKE RATE OF FAVS AT THE GAFFS I STAND HAS TO BE SEEN TO BE BELIEVED(WOLVS BEING EXCEPTIONALLY BAD),EVEN ALLOWING FOR THAT I WILL STILL TRY CONTINUE TO BE CONSISTANT AND BUILD THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE HOUSE FIRST.
Truth - i'll lay a few bricks for you, once you've got the house foundations done - hate to see any bookmaker homeless during this inclement weather !
THANKS MUG BUT IVE GOT A TENT,AND THE SOUP AT THE LOCAL KITCHEN IS QUITE GOOD,PLUS I GOT A FEW HUNDRED OF THE INJURED BOOKMAKERS FUND TO TIDE ME OVER XMAS AND NEW YEAR,BUT THANKS ANYWAY,ITS THE THOUGHT THAT COUNTS
Watch them soup kitchens truth, been told they are handing out tesco beef/horse burgers.I KNOW YOU WOULDN'T LIKE TO EAT ONE OF THEM HORSES THAT HAVE DONE YOU A FAVOUR IN THE PAST, WOULD YOU ? 
p.s have you got a contact number for this injured bookmakers fund ?........got the feeling they're going to be busy this year.
AT THE KITCHEN IVE BEEN EATING TESCO BEEFBURGERS AND FOUND MYSELF CRAVING SUGAR CUBES AND OATS,ON THE UP SIDE MY MEMBER HAS GROWN A FOOT LONG AND I CAN NOW LEGALLY **** IN THE STREET
SAVES YOU FROM CRAPPING YOURSELF ON THE STOOL GOT TO MAINTAIN THE CONDITION OF THE GEAR
GOT TO MAINTAIN THE CONDITION OF THE GEAR
Truth
What you say is exactly how I used to work & I stood every fav.However due to the turnover being so low I found even when I was getting a result I was not getting what I felt I should.
Ie.If I consistently stood the jollies for a couple of hundred or so & let's say I got a third or fourth in winning I was virtually getting nowt (second ins would be takers).So because of my low turnover I needed a miracle to come out on top, as how often do bigger than fourth ins ever win?
What I'm doing now on the racecourse is virtually the opposite to how I've worked the racecourses in the past but standing jollies consistently nowadays with these low turnovers is inpossibe.Fair enough if you're taking plenty you can stand the jollies winning but with these low % & turnover I found it impossible to win.Come the Summer at the decent meetings where there is money I'll probably go back to how I used to work but whilst there's very little money about it's a case of weathering the storm which I certainly couldn't have the way I was going on.
What you say is exactly how I used to work & I stood every fav.However due to the turnover being so low I found even when I was getting a result I was not getting what I felt I should.
Ie.If I consistently stood the jollies for a couple of hundred or so & let's say I got a third or fourth in winning I was virtually getting nowt (second ins would be takers).So because of my low turnover I needed a miracle to come out on top, as how often do bigger than fourth ins ever win?
What I'm doing now on the racecourse is virtually the opposite to how I've worked the racecourses in the past but standing jollies consistently nowadays with these low turnovers is inpossibe.Fair enough if you're taking plenty you can stand the jollies winning but with these low % & turnover I found it impossible to win.Come the Summer at the decent meetings where there is money I'll probably go back to how I used to work but whilst there's very little money about it's a case of weathering the storm which I certainly couldn't have the way I was going on.
ALLPOINTS,CANT KNOCK THE WAY U ARE CURRENTLY OPERATING AND WOULD AGREE WITH ALMOST EVERYTHING U SAY,THE BOTTOM LINE FOR ME AND THE PICKS I OPERATE FROM IS ITS A RESULTS BASED INDUSTRY U KNOW THE SCORE ONCE U START GOING WITH THE JOLLY U CANT FIND EM WITH RADAR,THE RESULTS I THINK IN GENERAL WHEREVER U BET IN THIS COUNTRY(PLAYING WITH A STRAIGHT BAT)HAVE BEEN HORRENDOUS FOR ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY STANDS EM,BUT LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IT WILL CHANGE IF YOUR CASH WILL LAST OUT.
ALLPOINTS - JUST CHECK THE RESULTS FROM THE LAST TWENTY YEARS - ROUGHLY THE SAME PERCENTAGE OF FAVS AND SECOND FAVS WIN EVERY YEAR - THE PROBLEM IS MARGIN ! MAINLY BECAUSE OF EXCHANGE USE WE ARE BETTING TO UNSUSTAINABLY LOW MARGINS WITH TOO MANY BOOKS CHASING TOO LITTLE MONEY.
CERTAINLY NOT THE CASE OVER THE LAST 6 MONTHS AT WOLVS,I THINK THE YEAR BEFORE U WOULD HAVE BEEN £44 UP TO A £1LEVEL STAKE AT LINGFIELD AND THAT WAS ONLY THE SP RETURN.
Mugbookie is spot on other than group one races on group one tracks the rest aint worth a dime
the kids have seen their Fathers lose year after year
thats why the kids have no interest in horse racing
and when in any game you dont get the kids well there is no future ....zipper
the kids have seen their Fathers lose year after year
thats why the kids have no interest in horse racing
and when in any game you dont get the kids well there is no future ....zipper
and the way the racecourses keep putting up the "cheap" ring prices it gives me the impression they don't want the kids either
adge you could fill your bag up with £2 £4 punters and not pay the Exs ....game on
adge the reason why the big punters have left the ring
simple we can have 1k no prob on any horse you guys are laying in the ring ... and its always a better price
its no contest realy ......
simple we can have 1k no prob on any horse you guys are laying in the ring ... and its always a better price
its no contest realy ......
if on-course bookmakers just hedge everything back on the exchanges , what is the point of them ?
this will lead to a time in the future where the exchange price plus a certain % for each horse price will be used for sp
2.12 bfsp
evens sp
15.5 bfsp
12/1 sp
this will lead to a time in the future where the exchange price plus a certain % for each horse price will be used for sp
2.12 bfsp
evens sp
15.5 bfsp
12/1 sp
ZIPPER/HAROLD LLOYD 1.01 NEVER SET FOOT ON A RACECOURSE IN THEIR LIFES
adge you two bob charlies will lay a punter say 3/1 when you can have say 4/1 back on here ..
John Banks would laugh at you mugs in the ring today
John Banks would laugh at you mugs in the ring today
if that was a correct statement , zipper , this whole thread is pointless.
but i know and i suspect you do if it's 4/1 on here someone on course will also be 4/1
but i know and i suspect you do if it's 4/1 on here someone on course will also be 4/1
the truth hurts , no not calling you by your forum name , just saying that the truth does hurt
i'll lay you that bet , how much you want at 1.01 ?
i'll lay you that bet , how much you want at 1.01 ?
OF COURSE ZIPPER IS QUITE CORRECT LAY IT AT 3/1 BACK IT BACK ON HERE AT 4/1,THATS WHY I CANT UNDERSTAND UNDER THE "POSITIONS WANTED" SECTION OF THE AGT WEBSITE NOBODY WANTS ANYTHING????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
zipper - calling adge a 'TWO BOB CHARLIE' - PLEASE REFRAIN FROM POSTING ON THIS THREAD, AS YOU VERY CLEARLY HAVE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT !
HORAY FOR HAROLD LLOYD,WHATEVER U WANT MY FRIEND BUT U CANT HAVE IT BACK ON HERE
Thetruth
years ago i drove miles up and down motorways
now i can sit at home in my underpants with my fav drink and get a better price to more money
no contest
get real man your game is over
years ago i drove miles up and down motorways
now i can sit at home in my underpants with my fav drink and get a better price to more money
no contest
get real man your game is over
thetruthhurts , i'm not a bookie so i wouldn't have it back on here
1.01 your not quite with it
you on them legal highs again
1.01 your not quite with it
you on them legal highs again
Zipper - when John Banks was operating the goalposts were miles away from where they are now ! He and many of his contemporaries would be cringing at what is going on.
AS I SAID ZIPPER,TRY IT U MIGHT LIKE IT,NO COMMISSION,NO PREMIUM CHARGE AND BIGGER THAN THE MACHINE,COME RACING
ZIPPER -if going racing for you is ALL about getting the best price, then stay at home - but if you occaisionally can drag yourself to the races, particulary where the truth bets,you will, not only be able to get 'bigger than the machine' with no commission but be able to cast your eye on some lovely fillies 
Mug i always attend the top class racing meet a lot of friends but the band is getting smaller .. 66 plus get thr drift ..whos knows who next
ZIPPER 1.01 IT WILL B U IF YOU KEEP SITTING IN THE HOUSE IN YOUR UNDERPANTS
zipper - are you saying you are an elderly gentleman ? not sure what you are alluding to.....
Makes me laugh when people think Betfair should be used for sp
The prices for most horses aren't bigger on here when you account for the commission that most people are on
The prices for most horses aren't bigger on here when you account for the commission that most people are on
545APG , same way as it makes me laugh to hear so called "bookmakers" just having it back on here .
if you read my post , i did say that the SP could be calculated to a certain percentage of the BFSP given what price range it is at .
what is a more accurate reflection of the odds of a horse , on course or the exchanges ?
if you read my post , i did say that the SP could be calculated to a certain percentage of the BFSP given what price range it is at .
what is a more accurate reflection of the odds of a horse , on course or the exchanges ?
firstly leave cashless out of this i aint getting into that one ......secondly,its not a duel at dawn with joe or like i stated a vendetta......thirdly i started out putting my view across as regards pick sharing joe came in and i genuinely thought he was a one man band ,but he came clean and said he was sharing ,which i found bemusing on the grounds that hes betting out of grade 1 picks , my views are simple ...its shafting the lower picks and its pure greeed ,he declared he felt sorry for the lower picks but on previuos occassions hes openly declared that he couldnt care less as long as he was ok .............ITS A FORUM WHERE HEATED ARGUMENTS TAKE PLACE AND DISCUSSIONS GO TO BOILING POINT ....ive nothing to apoligise for
22.25 posting not going tolose any sleep over it ...fair enough ,but then you wanna feel sorry for em ,whats all that about
EVENNG JW - I NEVER THOUGHT AT ANY STAGE THAT DISCUSSION GOT HEATED ? RIBERO HAS HIS VIEW, WHICH YOU AND I BELIEVE TO BE WRONG - BUT IT SHOULD NEVER COME DOWN TO PERSONAL ABUSE, THERE IS NO NEED - REMEMBER CIVILITY AND COURTESY GUARANTEED ....MONEY DOUBTFUL.
Cashless,my not losing any sleep comments was about your comments,ok?
Some guys on here have serious chips on their shoulders regarding front row bookies
What would you do in pick 1 differently to anyone else
I think you all want to turn the clock back to having chalk and tickets
What would you do in pick 1 differently to anyone else
I think you all want to turn the clock back to having chalk and tickets
how about i will take all bets from every bookmarker who has back bets on the machine at the racecourse, Adge has all ready told me none of you win, what mugs are you?
you juggle around ....but weve reached your bottom line haven we
johnnywilkinson 20 Jan 13 19:43 Joined: 13 Oct 07 | Topic/replies: 683 | Blogger: johnnywilkinson's blog
you juggle around ....but weve reached your bottom line haven we
Pat, you sound more and more like a bitter old bastid. You've tried bookmaking in the 'New Era' and found that you can't hack it. So you're having a go at decent fellows like Joe who are doing their damndest to make it work.
Let me give you some advice. Why don't you sod off and go back to standing at the last fence and laying fallers? That's what I call dishonest, disgareeable and downright scumbaggy behaviour.
Happy Facking New Year!! b
you juggle around ....but weve reached your bottom line haven we
Pat, you sound more and more like a bitter old bastid. You've tried bookmaking in the 'New Era' and found that you can't hack it. So you're having a go at decent fellows like Joe who are doing their damndest to make it work.
Let me give you some advice. Why don't you sod off and go back to standing at the last fence and laying fallers? That's what I call dishonest, disgareeable and downright scumbaggy behaviour.
Happy Facking New Year!! b
Ok, why don't the layers take a stand as one and forget the exchanges.......play the game as per the 90's and use your opinion for your book...lay pro punters decent bets and raise the profile of your product to casual punters.so they will get a price on course rather than sit at home...'come racing'..as Mac used to say..entice the customer boys or fade away..
Norwich Rob, times have changed their are now less bookies per punter than there were pre exchanges,like most of the old time independant bookie shops they hav'nt moved with the times and treated their customers with contempt and have lost their business.
Two bits of advice for THETRUTHHURTS YOU DONT HAVE TO LAY BIGGER THAN THE MACHINE just lay the machine or even better buy a few pitches north of the border.
Two bits of advice for THETRUTHHURTS YOU DONT HAVE TO LAY BIGGER THAN THE MACHINE just lay the machine or even better buy a few pitches north of the border.
Lord Truth in Scotland? They would eat him for breakfast!
He gets a nose bleed when he's 5 miles from Hexham
He gets a nose bleed when he's 5 miles from Hexham
JUST BACK FROM THE SOUP KITCHEN(CELERY SOUP TONIGHT VERY NICE)I SEE THE DEBATE LIKE THE SOUP IS GETTING A BIT HEATED AGAIN. MMMALUSHKA HERES A BIT OF FREE ADVICE FOR U,IF U DONT COMPETE WITH THE MACHINE(THATS AS WEAK AS THE CUP OF TEA IVE JUST HAD)AS A ONCOURSE BOOKMAKER U R DEAD AND BURIED,TRY ATTRACTING PEOPLE TO THE RACECOURSES INSTEAD LIKE THE COMMISSION AGENTS DRIVING THEM AWAY,HOPE THIS HELPS
HAVE BET AT EVERY TRACK IN SCOTLAND THE MONEY U COULD HOLD ON A RACE WAS DOUBLE THAT OF ANY ENGLISH COURSE,YET EVEN THEY HAVE GONE THE SAME WAY AS THE REST
THETRUTHHURTS,WHICH MACHINE ARE YOU LOOKING AT?WHO DID YOU TRADE AS UP NORTH?And believe it or not attendances at the racecources are holding up despite a double dip recession and commission agents.
??????????????????????NO COMPRENDE,HAVNT GOT A CLUE WHO U ARE MY FRIEND BUT I SMELL THE UNMISTAKABLE SMELL OF A COMMISSION AGENT,PLEASE TELL ME IM WRONG
OK WHICH SCOTTISH RACETRACK DO U WORK FOR???????????????
DO YOU EVER GET ANYTHING RIGHT ? I WORK FOR MYSELF 40YEARS PUNTERING AND IN THE CUSTOMER SERVICE INDUSTRY.
NO THATS WHY I NOW GO TO THE SOUP KITCHEN,ANYWAY BATTERIES RUNNING OUT ON THE OLD LAPTOP AND ITS BLOODY FREEZING IN THIS TENT SO GOOD NIGHT AND GOD BLESS
Mug
Get your own catch phrase,Civility guaranteed,money doubtful.You'll be getting me into trouble.
M&M
You say the attendances are holding up in Scotland.I work up Scotland(apart from Ayr,horrible place to get to)& unless someones good at fiddling the attendance figures, the Scottish tracks are no different to anywhere else.Like most tracks throughout the country they have good days but also like most tracks nowadays they have plenty of bad days.
Get your own catch phrase,Civility guaranteed,money doubtful.You'll be getting me into trouble.
M&M
You say the attendances are holding up in Scotland.I work up Scotland(apart from Ayr,horrible place to get to)& unless someones good at fiddling the attendance figures, the Scottish tracks are no different to anywhere else.Like most tracks throughout the country they have good days but also like most tracks nowadays they have plenty of bad days.
WAS THINKING OF GOING TO WOLVS TODAY UNTIL THE HIGHWAYS AGENCY SAID ANYONE TRAVELLING IN ICY CONDITIONS SHOULD TAKE A SHOVEL,BLANKETS,SLEEPING BAG,EXTRA CLOTHING INCLUDING A HAT,SCARF,GLOVES,24 HOUR SUPPLY OF FOOD AND DRINK,DE ICER,ROCK SALT,TORCH,TOW ROPE,PETROL CAN,FIRST AID KIT AND JUMP LEADS AS WELL AS ALL MY RACING EQUIPMENT,I LOOKED A RIGHT TWT ON THE BUS THIS MORNING!
Bggest favour bookmakers could do for themselves is ban betfair from the ring....trade the money between themseves.
THETRUTHHURTS • January 21, 2013 11:55 AM GMT
WAS THINKING OF GOING TO WOLVS TODAY UNTIL THE HIGHWAYS AGENCY SAID ANYONE TRAVELLING IN ICY CONDITIONS SHOULD TAKE A SHOVEL,BLANKETS,SLEEPING BAG,EXTRA CLOTHING INCLUDING A HAT,SCARF,GLOVES,24 HOUR SUPPLY OF FOOD AND DRINK,DE ICER,ROCK SALT,TORCH,TOW ROPE,PETROL CAN,FIRST AID KIT AND JUMP LEADS AS WELL AS ALL MY RACING EQUIPMENT,I LOOKED A RIGHT TWT ON THE BUS THIS MORNING!
WAS THINKING OF GOING TO WOLVS TODAY UNTIL THE HIGHWAYS AGENCY SAID ANYONE TRAVELLING IN ICY CONDITIONS SHOULD TAKE A SHOVEL,BLANKETS,SLEEPING BAG,EXTRA CLOTHING INCLUDING A HAT,SCARF,GLOVES,24 HOUR SUPPLY OF FOOD AND DRINK,DE ICER,ROCK SALT,TORCH,TOW ROPE,PETROL CAN,FIRST AID KIT AND JUMP LEADS AS WELL AS ALL MY RACING EQUIPMENT,I LOOKED A RIGHT TWT ON THE BUS THIS MORNING!
allpoints,Cheltenham pre exchange 1999 new year day meeting attendance
14,608 with 87 books.
2012 attendance 32,365 with 42 books.Check it here.
http://aes.hblb.org.uk/index.php/attendances/summaries
14,608 with 87 books.
2012 attendance 32,365 with 42 books.Check it here.
http://aes.hblb.org.uk/index.php/attendances/summaries
M&M
I'm not disputing anything about the ratio of punters to bookmakers,what I'm saying is the courses in Scotland are doing no better regarding falling attendances than other U.K. courses.
Generally I find I can take money in Scotland whereas the same ratio of money per punter isn't so good down here.I regularly travel North(even to Perth) when I have supposedly(on paper)better pitches down here.You & I both know why I do that.
I'm not disputing anything about the ratio of punters to bookmakers,what I'm saying is the courses in Scotland are doing no better regarding falling attendances than other U.K. courses.
Generally I find I can take money in Scotland whereas the same ratio of money per punter isn't so good down here.I regularly travel North(even to Perth) when I have supposedly(on paper)better pitches down here.You & I both know why I do that.
lololol....i cant get me breath on anders lassens response .joewhere did you dig him up from ??.venomous attack on cashless ,what makes him tick to come out with language like that ?/
mmmalushka,I can assure you there were more than 42 books at Cheltenham on that day. I was in the best mate enclosure and there were something like 25 in there alone.
mmmaluska
i can see where you got that figure from 42 books but it is without question a misprint.
i can see where you got that figure from 42 books but it is without question a misprint.
Jimnast is right. The end Jan 2012 meeting is also wrong as it lists 28 books which can't be right.
Now we can't even get the attendances right we're DOOMED
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