Kauto - Is Clive Smith having a laugh ?

Best horse he has ever had,See More Business excepted,why wouldn't he defend him?

Everyone has their right to an opinion and in hindsight my post above is OTT, but I still think Clive has every right to choose as he sees fit. He obviously feels leaving the horse out in some field is not the way to treat a horse who has been in physical training for much of his career. Obviously he wont be doing dressage for the rest of his life.

Maybe Clive doesnt want to have to travel to Ditcheat also everytime he wants to see his horse

Best of Luck to owner and horse. A long and happy retirement fully deserved

Oh dear; yet another intervention by man between nature and nurture.  Why is often got so wrong?

I can understand the thinking behind it, but there's just something very wrong about the idea of one of the all time sporting greats getting paraded around like some glorified My Little Pony, imo...

http://www.racingpost.com/
news/
horse-racing/
brave-inca-among-winners-again-at-dublin-horse-show/
618077/
#newsArchiveTabs=last7DaysNews

It's like any great of any sport,you give them a well deserved retirement.This show pony stuff is a bloody disgrace.

I don't see the fuss apart from them obviously being upset at Kauto leaving the stable, but when you have

Denman Team chasing
Neptune Collognes-showing and
Hello Bud at 14 still running at Aintree.

Then I think it looks like racehorses want to do something. Just a shame there could not be  a mutual agreement either way he is sure to have a better retirement than Hallo Dandy, Yahoo and many others.

"Best of Luck to owner and horse"

wholeheartedly agree with the latter, to the former I think he's had more than enough already the smug, toothless barsteward. I cannot abide him.

European racehorse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uQOchrK7NA

Dec 11, 2012 -- 4:38PM, Marcce wrote:

There'd have been hell to play if Clive Smith had sent Neptune Collonges off to dressage!

Paul Nicholls picture on twitter from 18th Nov mate...Hell 2 pay me think

https://twitter.com/i/#!/PFNicholls/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FaKMJp810

Nicholls has a short memory. Only last year was he suggesting retiring Kauto to get fat and grumpy would be cruel and that Kauto was an athlete who needed activity.

So what`s the problem? It`s only horse ballet. It will keep him nimble. He is French after all

Yeah, Got owners mixed up Even so....what's in it for sending them dressaging? if anyone knows or follows this sphere of course

Who does Nicholls think he is? He is a paid servant to the owner, any decent trainer would have done great things with a horse as talented as that.....if hid ego got any bigger it would be nearly half as big as his plump head.

If Kauto was bucking and kicking at Sandown, and according to PN thru Clifford Baker off the other morning before trotting home it sounds like what he's doing at the moment isn't enough to keep him interested.

While it's great for the likes of us to be able to see him paraded he probably thinks he's being taken to the races to run only to walk around a bit then find himself back in the horse trailer.

I can fully understand why those who've been closest to him for the last 8 years are upset and perhaps the way it's happened isn't the best, but it sounds to me that he should be given the chance to see if he enjoys doing something else. I'm fairly sure if a horse doesn't enjoy something he'll be quick to let you know.

You'd like to think if it doesn't work then they'll let him be in a field under the best possible care and attention. If that doesn't happen then I think its time to get angry.

Jellybelly going on like a prat, he doesn't own the horse and he does not decide on the horses future.

SPOT ON^


GWAN Kauto Get stuck in

https://twitter.com/
CollettEventing/
status/
278563201908629505/
photo/
1

WHEN TWO EGOS COLLIDE

Borderlescott and Hello Bud joining the yard shortly

The Tatling now works on skeggy front

There is some utter s h i t e being spouted on here.

Dressage is not 'circus tricks' or 'show pony stuff'.  It is a form of gymnastic training - it keeps horses supple, it teaches them to carry themselves in the most biomechanically efficient way possible, builds muscle and occupies their brains by teaching them different exercises and movements.  It's an excellent way to keep a horse like Kauto healthy, fit and occupied.

The RP article reads as though Paul Nicholls has thrown his toys out of his pram at not getting his own way.  It's sad for the Ditcheat team that Kauto has left the yard but - bottom line - they are paid to look after horses, and they should know that they can be taken away at any time, at any point during or after their career.  Clive Smith has paid the bills for the last nine years, Kauto is his horse and he can do what he likes with him. 

There are plenty of people on here quick to criticise owners for 'discarding' horses or treating them as money makers.  We should be applauding Clive Smith for having planned to give Kauto a useful and active retirement, and celebrating the brilliant advert that it will be for life after racing to have Neptune and Kauto competing in dressage (funny how Nicholls didn't have this sort of tantrum over the Hales retraining Nipper for dressage...) and Denman hunting / team chasing.

Not many on here seem to know what dressage is.

It's all about training the horse to use itself in as relaxed a manner as possible. Every horse would benefit from it, including racehorses both in and out of training. It makes them healthier and happier, as they repeat the movements of muscles and limbs even when turned out loose.

If you see horses turned out in a field, you can soon distinguish the fluid movements of the dressage-trained animal from the clumsy gait of one turned out and forgotten about (or "enjoying a well-earned retirement").

It's a pity that most of us only see dressage accompanied by silly hats and music, but at all bar the highest level it's just a test of the well-being of the horse and the ability of its rider.

As regards Pumpkinbonce or his staff necessarily knowing better, their job was to win races with the horse. Why should they have any particular expertise beyond that?

Having said all that, Clive Smith does deem to have a knack of falling out with champion trainers. Both sides should have been able to deal with this issue with a lot more good humour and a lot less ego.

spot on jezebel

pumpkinbonce

I suppose the problem is people have their own ideas about what would constitute a happy retirement for an ex racehorse and I would guess most people's idea would be for them to be trotting around a field munching carrots.

I've seen Monsignor at a couple of the Qipco days and he seems to love just going to the races and having a fuss made of him. That kind of racehorse retirement idyllic plan is what's ingrained in many of us I suspect. Especially as sending them to dressage is relatively new, certainly for the real top notchers.

The saddest thing about all this though is the unnecessary tug of war it seems to have provoked between owner and trainer.

It's a pity that most of us only see dressage accompanied by silly hats and music, but at all bar the highest level it's just a test of the well-being of the horse and the ability of its rider.

My point exactly scbtw....most people's only knowledge of the sport (and I include myself here) is the bits and pieces that the beeb put on once in a blue moon when their itinerary is threadbare unfortunately.

If it's a/the way to keep the old boy happy and active, then no complaints from me,

At the Introductory level all that Kauto Star will have to perform is walk and trot, and for his rider to remember to do circles and turns at the correct moments.

They'll get marks partly just for doing these basics correctly and partly for displaying willingness, freedom of movement and balance. In a way the judges will be publicly scoring just how happy and healthy the horse is in his retirement.

There's no pirouettes etc. until Grand Prix level, another ten levels higher. All the movements derive from the training given to cavalry horses in days gone by. It's not a circus.

For Kauto Star it's just a day out among some ladies bitching behind each other back.

Lot of people here with no idea what they're talking about - some saying he 'deserves to stand around doing nothing in a field eating grass' - what absolute garbage! The horse would absolutely hate that - akin to shutting a Ferrari in a cold garage to rust! Having been used to an active routine for so long, his mind needs to be exercised as well as his body. He's in the prime of his life for christ's sake. He's a show off and will adore the adulation he gets on the dressage circuit.

^If that is the case why not race him?

Because he wouldn't be competitive at the highest level where he belongs.

I hope Kauto shows his displasure with his owners decision by kicking him straight in the gonads!!
..........
on TV

And because racing requires maximum exertion and puts the most strain on heart, lungs, bones and tendons.  Dressage is a gentler form of exercise, with muscle tone being built up gradually.  Virtually any sound horse is capable of competing in grass-roots level dressage as it measures schooling, obedience to the rider and accuracy.  It doesn't require the extreme, on-the-edge level of fitness that racing does.  Dressage horses can compete well into their twenties.

Absolutely fu&*%& stunning reaction from people who have made livelihoods from people like Smith who lose about 80% of their investments on horses.

Then are given abuse via the internet for looking after THEIR own horse.

Seriously what is wrong with Nicholls and some of his staff.

Maybe the horse would be better off where hes been living the last 9 years??

Seriously what is wrong with Smith.

Seriously guys? If he stayed with Nicholls he would be doing what he loves. Cantering in the morning, going out with the string on the roads walking. The only difference would be lighter work and no days at the track bar parading on King George day. Clive Smith needs to remember the people that know him best are the people that see and look after him day in day out. Why take a horse out of his routine when he's loving life. For me that's cruel on Kauto. I think this is Smith just wanting to show who's charge instead of putting the horses interests first. I think Nicholls has every right to be upset tbh, He has offered the horse a place for life with an active retirement and Clive has just told Nicholls to do one, just because he can.

Clive Smith If you loved your horse that much you'd let him stay at home.

Nicholls is gaining nothing out of keeping Kauto, I'd even put good money on Paul funding Kauto's stay.

^ completely agree with the last 2 postings, I'm sure the horse would be happiest just staying where he is.

Thing is its Nicholls and his staff who have been looking after Kauto most of his life,not smith.

Why did'nt smith just let the horse carry on staying at Ditcheat,sure they could have arranged it between them.
Could have been a hack,gone out in the mornings with the horses etc etc,and basically enjoyed his retirement in familiar surroundings with people he knows.
Just dont see this Dressage thing,i really dont.

They should know their place. Salaried staff.
Smith's horse to do with as he pleases.

Reminds me of many greyhound trainers who behave as they own all their dogs. They aren't. They are owned by the owner, who pays ALL the bills.

Nicholls staff have been looking after Kauto because Clive Smith has been contributing to their wages.


Now his racing career is over he's no obligation towards them, he can do with Kauto Star as he wishes as far as i'm concerned.

Not whats best for the horse then?

why do you feel staying in ditcheat is the "Best for the horse".


The horse is going to grade a facilities and care.

All this "Best for the horse" is emotive garbage.

Kauto Star is only an old horse in racing terms. It's not like he's on his last legs ffs

cos thats his home where all the people who care for him are,and where hes been comfortable for a long time.
we all love home,why should a horse be any different??

That not best for the horse??

i think it is.

doubt the horse gives a f**k as long as hes fed and watered....if Nicholls, his lad and Clive Smith all dropped dead at his feet, he wouldn't turn a hair... people need to get a grip ffs.

Agreed DJQ.  People forget that in the time Kauto has been at Ditcheat he has had three or four well-publicised changes of lad, so all this "the people who have looked after him for the last nine years" guff - it's not as if it has been unbroken continuity for the horse.  He's had different horses in the box around him, different jockeys...he's proved he's perfectly adaptable to change.

The place he's going, Laura Collett's, is an Olympic-level stable with the best standards of care.  Laura has fewer than twenty horses - a bit different from Nicholls's 150+.  Arguably Kauto is going to get more individual, 1-2-1 attention on a yard that size than he received at Ditcheat.

http://www.lauracollett.com/facilities.html

Would the moaners prefer to have him bored to tears or found in a field emaciated and suffering like a former Les Kennard "star" was or perhaps awaiting the butcher in Belgium like a former horse of the Queens?

like most ,if not all of us on here , i know nothing of the potential 'ego' battle between big trainer and bigtime businessman owner . both of whom i imagine don't take kindly to being told what to do at any stage in their daily lives . however , jezebel's argument for the move of the horse is most compelling .

don't know clive smith but he's always come across badly to me. i recall him saying something along the lines of 'ruby could learn something from sam' when sam thomas won the 2007 betfair chase on him. yet when sam thomas was going through a nightmare spell the following year, smith (and nicholls) appeared very happy to drop him

nevertheless, i don't have a massive problem with this decision in theory and i'm sure this great horse will get the best of care in his new home. just sounds as though it could have been handled better

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nico/5641268099/

It is Smith's horse and it is his decision. However I dont accept this cr@p about dressage being the be-all and end-all for a horse. To me the moves are totally unnatural for a horse. Has anyone ever seen a wild horse do any of these moves of their own accord. Of course not. It is totally alien to them. But they have been seen to jump obstacles.

bit of eye candy for Kauto then at least.

I suspect that if Kauto could talk he would say something along the lines of " Goodbye all & thanks for looking after me " said with a grin of expectation at the thought of a wonderful career twilight ahead with a quality of living & activity that most horses could only dream about.



Well done horse & owner   

Kauto Star must be relieved.......

That he didn`t end up on Paul Nicholls dinner plate.

Bravo Clive Smith.

LOL Arkle,have you ever seen wild horses with carts attached delivering milk or coal to cavemen...........ponies going down mines with panniers attached each side or pulling guns through Artillery Fire?

All totally natural of course.

Dunkirk....i remember!

Half pass (official dressage move - moving at a diagonal with the legs crossing in front) - horses do this in the wild frequently, especially at trot.

Extended trot (official dressage move - horse takes lengthened strides) - horses do this in the wild frequently, especially stallions showing off to mares.

Pirouette (official dressage move - horse pivots on the spot) - horses do this in the wild frequently, as a means of changing direction quickly.

That's just a small selection off the top of my head.  Dressage means "training" and is just a means of enhancing and improving a horse's natural paces, suppleness and athleticism.  Just because you don't understand something, or are too narrow-minded to learn about it, doesn't automatically make it "cr@p".

doubt the horse gives a f**k as long as hes fed and watered....if Nicholls, his lad and Clive Smith all dropped dead at his feet, he wouldn't turn a hair... people need to get a grip ffs.


  Too true

You obviously know a lot more about it than me Jez but I cant imagine Kauto showing anything off to any mares unless he brings along all those trophies

Just a taster for you fúcking know it all's...  a technique called rollkur – the practice of drawing the horse's neck round in a deep curve so its nose almost touches its chest – was posted on YouTube. It showed Swedish rider Patrik Kittel at October's World Cup dressage qualifiers at Odense in Denmark warming up his horse, Watermill Scandic, for a sustained period of time in the position, also known as hyperflexion. The horse's tongue appears to loll out and go blue. Kittel has since received death threats.

The incident has caused a "phenomenal reaction", says dressage trainer and author Lady Sylvia Loch. "It is a shocking symptom of where the sport is going, it's the tip of the iceberg. What is going on behind closed doors in the training of these horses is very wrong.

Wherever he goes, he's bound to get well looked after and It's probably very petty discussing If he should be galloping at Nicholls or tap dancing elsewhere, when you take into account the amount of animals that are abused and mistreated on the planet.

He should of stayed at home though IMO and gone tap dancing at the weekends.

Spend another few weeks with Fraudy and you will get the hang of it Boxing.nap

It's not my job to educate pork so GFYYFDC.

Yes, rollkur is shocking and unacceptable, and true fans and exponents of classical dressage are completely opposed to its use.  That's why there was such delight (apart from the obvious patriotism) when Charlotte Dujardin, who does not and has never used rollkur in her training, beat Adelinde Cornelissen (who does) at London 2012.

If your point was to try to suggest that anyone who enjoys dressage uses rollkur and is therefore some kind of animal abuser...epic fail, I'm afraid.  On a par with assuming everyone who enjoys racing is a doper, just because there are some sad individuals who use nefarious means to get ahead.  Don't judge an entire sport by its few bad apples.

anyone see that program horsepower with Martin Clunes in? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBatY-u8Y34

Im not sure what your post is intended to say Theboxingfox. National Hunt has had its fair share of "Welfare Issues" so for you to start flinging stones at another sport is naive. Kauto I'm pretty sure wont be competing at World Cup events, probably local events mostly.


One of the major reasons for the move might have been that Clive wanted easy access to visit the horse.

Wheres that photo of Kauto close to breaking his neck at Cheltenham

Yes Jez he's just gonna love the tongue ties as well. My point DJQ was that its not the airy fairy sport some on here think it is.

You could not educate yourself without Google.......Boxing.What happens on the continent is NOT common in the UK.

How many U necked horses have you seen in dressage or eventing in the UK? Plenty of Dutch,German etc going back decades and not all achieved by the method you describe,few in fact.hth

Google, what a **** you are. I cant be bothered talking to morons. get on with it among yourselves.

You cant admit you have nothing remotely interesting or original in your cerebral cavity Boxing.NAP

GT IS OK Boxing,hit the Gin early!

He hit the Google button too early.nb

mmmmm Gin now that's the best idea on here tonight. Thanks and GN guys enjoy the craic.

Clown!

Well he'd be used to tongue ties, given that Nicholls stuck one on him for every race!

The only people who think dressage is 'airy fairy' are those who don't understand it.  It's an athletic discipline.  But if you think Kauto is going to be subjected to some of the less palatable methods that some unfortunate individuals resort to to get to the very top, you're wide of the mark.  Forget the silly bets about the 2016 Olympics.  Kauto isn't built or bred to be a Grand Prix level dressage horse.  He's a Thoroughbred, and the very best dressage horses are Warmbloods.  He's a gelding, so there's nothing to be gained by pushing him beyond his capabilities in order to boost his stud value.  There is no prize money to speak of in British dressage so it's not about financial rewards.  He's going to (hopefully) give Laura Collett a bit of fun, give her a new challenge in schooling him to his potential and to raise the profile of retrained racehorses.  He'll be a bit of a celebrity on the lower level dressage circuit and maybe bring in a few new fans.

^I defer to your knowledge Jez...

Well I breed the bu88ers (dressage horses) so I'd hope I know a little bit about it by now!

Jezebel, thanks for that reply, you obviously know a fair deal about this, I know F,all and was just winding up the children, GT you were spot on about google. On a serious note it's a shame to see the relationship between owner and trainer turn into a public slagging match, I don't think it does racing or either of them any credit. I hope the horse loves his new life, he certainly gave many much pleasure, not to mention a good few bob as well.

A bit like those who despise ballet Jez,no understanding of the Art (I cant stand it btw)or perceive Polo to be elitist.

Anyone who has ever had anything to do with horses,however limited knows that like any animal they respond to kindness more than cruelty.Yogi Breisner and Yarmy (Steve Dibble) will confirm that fact.

Anyone who ever watches the Queens birthday and presenting the colours would see happy horses doing something they actually enjoy,en mass.If they didnt like it...................?

Feel the Christmas love!

GT, apologies mate, you seem to have a passion foe this and I was being deliberately obtuse.

Busvaldo, GFYYDC............................... only joking, don't shoot.

I think its a brilliant idea and the thought of Kauto Stat dancing to "simply the best" would probably be the most
breathtaking tribute to a very special horses career, and that song has been used in dressage.

A big crowd puller for dressage and lets hope he does well and we get to see him

I am taking out my ex girlfriend on Saturday,should be a giggle!

Better if they can get him doing the Twist......ala Chubby Checker?

1.01 he will appear at the Horse Of The Year Show and make an appearance on SPOTY (filmed).

NAP

I am taking out my ex girlfriend on Saturday,should be a giggle!

Tongue tie should come in handy then............................................OK








I'll get me coat

It will be a mental one...

GN and GL guys, my ill informed wind up was a massive fail. I'm suitably chastised. Now where the f*** is the gin.

It would be worse if Boxing was taking her out Bus,imagine that after a few weeks with Fraudy?

She would have more gear on than the average Sado Masochist or Ferdy Murphy inmate?

I am old school GT,3 Glasses of large white wine and a ruby,should suffice!

Rarely have a Ruby these days,went for one near Fakenham the night before visiting Skinto at Yarmouth in March.Ring sting,I think Skinto thought I was Fraudy...........the funny walk after a Vindaloo.

Mad as a hatter!

Hes not that bad actually,quite normal.........apart from being tee total.