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Anaglogs Daughter
28 Oct 12 17:33
Joined:
Date Joined: 05 Jan 10
| Topic/replies: 29,477 | Blogger: Anaglogs Daughter's blog
Cost of the high profit games boosting bookmakers' profits

Betting shops are to open at 8.30am for the first time on Boxing Day and New Year's Day at all major chain
By Sarah Bridge

He hardly gambled until he was 38, apart from an occasional £2 flutter on the horses.
But a lunchtime trip to the local bookmaker changed his life. David put £10 into a roulette machine and won £100.

David (not his real name), now 44, said: ‘I left that shop high as a kite.’

Thrilled with his easy winnings  on the controversial fixed-odds machine, he returned later – and lost his £100 winnings, plus £200.

David has decided to reveal the horror of his addiction to the controversial machines as bookies gear up for bumper profits from fixed-odds terminals this Christmas.

Betting shops are to open at 8.30am for the first time on Boxing Day and New Year’s Day at all major chains, even though live racing does not start until the afternoon.

Instead, punters will be enticed in by roulette and slot machine games, plus virtual horse and dog racing.

This is despite increasing protests over the fixed-odds machines, which have been described as the ‘crack cocaine’ of gambling, able to hook punters such as David.

He went back every day for the next three years. Sometimes he won, netting £1,700 for a few hours’ play, and once walking out with £5,000. But the winnings would not make up what he had already lost.
‘I was always chasing my losses and it just spiralled out of control,’ he said. ‘I knew I was in trouble but it just took over my life.’

Almost from the start, David was gambling with the takings from his small construction business. He lost his house and his wife and two daughters.
Desperate, he borrowed from money lenders and was beaten up when he couldn’t meet the sky-high interest payments.

He stole to pay back the loans, was caught and got a criminal record. He even turned to dealing drugs to try to make some money. In all, he reckons he lost more than £250,000.

‘If you had said five years ago that I would be telling you about all the things I have done, I wouldn’t have believed you,’ said David. ‘I’m just a normal, run-of-the-mill bloke.’

The final straw came one Saturday afternoon. He walked out of the bookmakers having lost £1,000.

‘I felt so low, I just had nothing left.’  That was two months ago and he hasn’t been to a bookies since.  ‘The first two weeks not gambling were horrific,’ he said, ‘but every time I wanted to gamble I would distract myself, think of something else and just use all the willpower I had.’

David now lives with his parents, never carries cash and has handed his debit card to his mum.

He is fighting to save his business and wants his story to be told so  others realise the harm these machines can do.

‘They should be banned,’ he said firmly. ‘You can win so much money so quickly, but you can lose it all, too, and much more. It’s not like casinos, it’s just so easy to walk into a bookmaker – there are four round the corner from where I live.

‘If politicians haven’t the guts to ban them altogether, they should have just one in each shop with a time limit. Otherwise you’ll have many more people like me.

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2224093/Gaming-machines-cost-250-000-ruined-life.html#ixzz2AcFZuGEy
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Report lustrumm October 28, 2012 6:27 PM GMT
Let me ask the question like this. Is the 250K better off in the small builders pocket where it can be put back into the economy or in the satchel of the parasites like WH,LADS and Korals
Report racingstar October 28, 2012 6:29 PM GMT
The plum would have found a way to slaughter it whatever rules were in place.
End of subject.
Report aberdonia October 28, 2012 6:30 PM GMT
it is a free society that we live in.

i dont want to live in a socialist world where we cannot do anything without the permission of the govt.

you can guarantee that they would end gambling of any sort if they had their way.

of course they tax it as they love to tax everything.
Report halcyon days October 28, 2012 6:32 PM GMT
This country is still full of vices......



even if our engineering manufacturing has all but gone !
Report track record October 28, 2012 6:32 PM GMT
anyway  bg

do u put tips up over here  LaughWink
Report tomdeane October 28, 2012 6:37 PM GMT
It's not that the FOBTs are more attractive per se, it's just that you can bet hundreds of pounds in minutes.

I agree with racingstar that addicts will always be weak and will always lose their money chasing losses, whether it's dog racing, the horses, or football. But the difference is a few years ago there were a finite number of these events every day, and if you had a bet on the football, you would usually have to wait 90 minutes to see what the outcome was. These FOBTs encourage people to bet as they know they can win big very quickly, and they can bet on thousands of spins a day. I'd bet that most addicts would lose as much if not more on sports betting if they were able to place thousands of bets a day.

To me, bookies are the lowest of the low. I would encourage anyone to never bet with them. Be selective and bet on here. Having said all of this, I have never personally understood why anyone would ever bet on an FOBT. It is pre-programmed to win money. Over time, you cannot beat it. And there is no skill involved. So where is the thrill?
Report halcyon days October 28, 2012 6:39 PM GMT
They are programmed to land in the ''canoe'' next to your bet number !



To a gambling addict, the chase is on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...
Report ebulGery October 28, 2012 6:41 PM GMT
track record
LaughLaugh
Report ebulGery October 28, 2012 6:54 PM GMT
the bloke who runs the independant betting shop at Harlow greyhound stadium
..still tells me his punters win on FOBTs
so I suggeest the gambler in the OP
gets on down there
and wins his £250,000 back
Grin
Report halcyon days October 28, 2012 7:14 PM GMT
2.7 % guaranteed to the house, equates to one billion per year to the Big 8....  roulette...
Report ebulGery October 28, 2012 7:21 PM GMT
It sounds as if
the £50 and £100 spins???(I dont use them)
should only be allowed in casinos

If the government allows the licensing of more casinos
and puts a £2 limit on them in betting shops
that is not taking the choice away from the gambler
just putting them where they should be

There would of course be less betting shops
but then they were originally opened to allow off course sports betting
so perhaps that is what they should go back toConfused
Report chelsea girl October 28, 2012 7:24 PM GMT
Thank you ebulGery, you know it makes sense. Excited
Report whatdifference October 28, 2012 7:38 PM GMT
speaking to the manager in Ladbks here and he said someone has done 50k and he knows another shop where someone is over 100k behind , same story , fella has done his business in , he said that they are only allowed so many machines per square foot so the powers that be have applied to get an extension to the shop just for more machines.
Report xmoneyx October 28, 2012 8:15 PM GMT
So if you live in Vegas---put locks on all the casinos

The guy tried to chase his losses

That happens from bingo to dice

Tragic for. the guy an his family
Report flushgordon1 October 28, 2012 8:49 PM GMT
the reason you have a civilised society is to protect the weak,
Report ebulGery October 28, 2012 8:59 PM GMT
Can and should you protect protect the weak from themselvesConfused
Report DCI Barnaby October 28, 2012 9:17 PM GMT
It is sad I was shocked, when I went into a shop to watch a big race while busy one day in London, not a nice part of London I must admit but it was Frankel running. was a woman playing on the machine went off with a fella 10 mins was back loading the machine with 10 ers only to shout out he needs to wash it more to laughter even from 2 lassies behind the ramp, from that and the questions one of her friends (machine guard) was asking I knew what had happened, 5 mins later she was gone with a zero balance its a sorry world we live in now
all in front of 8 people in shop and 2 staff members suprised the staff didnt give them the toilet key.
Report Tucho October 28, 2012 9:23 PM GMT
people comparing sports betting to fobts are missing the point

FOBTS are thought to be more addictive than sports betting because of the high frequency nature and the 'near miss' perception.


As regards the “near miss” feature, for example it is now thought that: “Near-miss outcomes recruited striatal and insula circuitry that also responded to monetary wins....Gambling near-misses were associated with significant recruitment of brain win-related circuitry and acted to increase desire to gamble.” (Clark et al 2009)
Report GHADDAFFI. October 28, 2012 9:26 PM GMT
racingstar... I don't think you live in the real world.

The problem with FOTB's is that they can turn a moderate gambler into an out of contol junkie in no time. Punters who have previously been content with staking a fiver per race and therefore limit their losses find themselves putting every note and coin in their pocket into these machines . I talk from experience.I lost 2 houses gambling over a 15 year period. The last 5 years I  play poker and mess around on the exchange. I show a reasonable profit and satisfy my need to have a gamble..I pride myself to be in control.But I have to make sure I do not set foot in a bookie. Because if I put one note in those machines I play until I have a win or until my pockets are empty..No points for guessing which one is more frequent.
Report bookie1961 October 28, 2012 9:27 PM GMT
Why to people keep barking on about these machines ??????????????
Went to the casino last night people were gambling all night and day cos there machines are 24/7 dont hear anybody on hear say they should be banned have you seen how many slot machines are in them ?????????? Black jack  poker roulette shall i stop
Report aberdonia October 28, 2012 9:33 PM GMT
i dont understand this near miss stuff with a roulette machine.


if you miss by 1 spot on the wheel or 30 spots what is the difference

Would make no odds to me.

And it would not make me want to more money at the machine.
Report aberdonia October 28, 2012 9:33 PM GMT
"throw" more money at the machine
Report GT-MOLE October 28, 2012 9:43 PM GMT
Short head or a nose..................double up on the next race.Laugh
Report aberdonia October 28, 2012 9:48 PM GMT
Now you are speaking in a language that i can understand.  Laugh
Report ebulGery October 28, 2012 9:50 PM GMT
People have and always will gamble all they have away

However there does seem some issue with these machine....
gambling addicts are saying they are just too irresistable and should be placed out of their reach

In which case a casino should be the place...not betting shops
I think what is happening here is.. that the government does not like to be seen licensing too many casinos
so they allow them to be placed in betting shops hoping no one will notice

My own opinion is they should license more casinos and allow them there

A reduction to a max £10 a play in betting shops could then be trialedConfused
Report GT-MOLE October 28, 2012 9:51 PM GMT
Aberdonia that picture looks like your heroic Mr Miller from decades ago?
Report aberdonia October 28, 2012 9:53 PM GMT
It is.

Us Aberdeen fans are always stuck in the 80s Wink

although our present side are on a 12 game unbeaten run  (too many draws).
Report ebulGery October 28, 2012 9:59 PM GMT
One could say that punters betting £50 and £100 a spin on these machines

could quite equally throw away their money backing horses and dogs at £50 and £100 a throw all afternoon

chance would be a fine thing

bookies are quite happy to limit our staking to £10 a bet, no self control needed here

Laugh
Report cojmac October 28, 2012 10:27 PM GMT
the problem is your only allowed £100max to win a max of £500 you cant buy your way out of trouble ,once your behind your facing an up hill battle
Report frog2 October 29, 2012 9:47 AM GMT
Posters like 'racingstar' are a disgrace to the gambling community endorsing FOBTs in multiple places in every high street in the country.

This guy was fine living a decent life without any gambling problems until FOBTs came along. Horses, dogs, casinos etc were never a problem for him. FOBTs appear and the bloke loses his house, his family and ends up stealing to feed his habit. The cost to the wider society of the machines is never taken into account. Broken homes and crimes cost every tax payer.

I remember Jim Cremin in the Racing Post years ago describing FOBTs as 'just a bit of fun'. How wrong could he have been.
Report raspberrybottom October 29, 2012 11:33 AM GMT
I agree that the FOBT's are horrible and a real temptation for some but near the end of that write-up the guy says:

‘I felt so low, I just had nothing left.’  That was two months ago and he hasn’t been to a bookies since.  ‘The first two weeks not gambling were horrific,’ he said, ‘but every time I wanted to gamble I would distract myself, think of something else and just use all the willpower I had.’

Why didn't he "distract" himself and use "all the willpower" he had before he got himself into such an awful position?
Report Harry09 October 29, 2012 11:47 AM GMT
I lost £1,500 on the NFL last night, can we ban that as well
Report STATSMAN October 29, 2012 11:50 AM GMT
It's easier to manage without money.
Report bullraider October 29, 2012 12:28 PM GMT
harry ,what was final score?
i got bored and went to bed after bronco's went 7up
Report lmfao October 29, 2012 12:37 PM GMT
raspberrybottom

'Why didn't he "distract" himself and use "all the willpower" he had before he got himself into such an awful position? '


Trouble is - theres only so many times a guy can 'distract' himself in any one day- i know- i repeatedly tried when i was younger Shocked Perhaps he should have 'distracted' himself whilst in the shop- got banned- problem over imo.
Report bullraider October 29, 2012 12:37 PM GMT
reckon they should teach kids about gambling,investment etc
maths courses should include probability theory
social courses the dangers of gambling,loan sharks etc
Report HAMMER88 October 29, 2012 12:41 PM GMT
usual cocky and arrogant replies from people on this thread, sad to see.
Report bullraider October 29, 2012 12:44 PM GMT
hammer
hope i'm not "cocky and arrogant"
Report lmfao October 29, 2012 12:46 PM GMT
Hammer- sounds like you've lost a fair bit on these machines- i pity you- bad luck m8Sad
Report HAMMER88 October 29, 2012 12:47 PM GMT
no, some replies are though. Serious social problem those machines, having seen a young man destroy his life through them who is currently on anti depressants, has lost over 20k on them and currently owes 6k in total to over ten payday loan firms I have seen first hand what they can do.
Report Anaglogs Daughter October 29, 2012 12:52 PM GMT
This is the Racing Posts take on FOBTS. Andy Betting writes a blog and it's okayed by the Racing Post to do it on their site.

  ANDY BENNETT

Weblog: Betting Shop Manager of the Year


ANDY BENNETT'S RSS FEED POSTED AT 11:24am 2 AUG 2012 Super Frankel should not blinker us over FOBTs
racingpost.com

Horseracing is the core product of betting shops, boosted this week by the mighty Frankel again proving himself a proper wonder-horse.

Nevertheless, other sports are grabbing a bigger share. Depending on which region of Britain you live in it may be football which challenges racing's dominance, but golf, cricket, tennis and both codes of rugby are showing significant increases as racing continues to decline. One thing that your location won't have a bearing on is the rise and rise of the Fixed Odds Betting Terminals (FOBTs, or gaming machines).

Other than in the smallest of independent outlets you will find these FOBTs shining invitingly, running through demonstrations of a huge array of games available at the touch of a button. Allowing customers to play up to £100 per shot, with a potential £500 maximum return on each go, they have become immensely popular with all generations, but particularly younger clients who find the touch-screen technology second nature to use. They are the major growth area across the betting industry and bookmakers would now struggle to be without them.

As things stand betting shops are limited to a maximum of four FOBTs per outlet, but that could change after a recommendation from the Commons' Culture, Media and Sport Committee that in practice might allow shops to increase machines as they see fit, with the potential for up to 20 per branch.

This proposal has been met with condemnation by GamCare, and other politicians. The fear is an upsurge in FOBTs in betting shops will lead to an explosion in problem gamblers. So, since the announcement was made regarding a possible increase in machines I have sought the thoughts of a wide group of people. These include Scotbet's Machines Manager John Nellies, my Area Manager Willie Lynas and, the people who these decisions effect most, my punters.

This review of the Gambling Act 2005, headed by Conservative MP John Whittingdale, has a purpose, among others, to address the perceived issue of betting shop 'clustering'.

The review concluded that gambling was "now widely accepted in the UK as a legitimate entertainment activity" and that the 2005 Act was "not sufficiently evidence based". Again, in different parts of the country that statement will be viewed in different ways. I can only tell you what my experiences are and how our punters have reacted.

I fully agree with the entertainment aspect of the statement. Visits to the betting shop should only be viewed as a fun hobby, with money you can afford to lose. Winning should not be an expectation when placing your bet, but a bonus, and betting shops should not be viewed as a source of income, the only exception to this being if you are a member of staff on the payroll. A visit to your local bookie should be more about having fun, being entertained and spending your spare time enjoying yourself. People will invariably vote with their feet and, like it or loathe it, more and more are voting to spend that time playing these machines.
So, with that in mind I decided to strip the issues back to their most basic form and ask for people's thoughts on two key questions.

1. Extra machines in shops - good or bad?
2. How do you feel bookmakers meet their social responsibilities to customers now, and how do you anticipate this to change with any introduction of more FOBTs?

Our machines manager John Nellies led the case for more FOBTs, but fully understood the arguments against, so was at pains to justify his opinion that this was a natural progression for shops. John reasoned that the explosion of internet and mobile betting was a major factor in the reduced footfall found in most shops. FOBTs were high street outlets' way of offering a comparable service, a way of "fighting back".

Whilst at the ICE Totally Gaming Exhibition 2011, he visited many London betting shops and noted queues waiting to play - uncomfortable to those having their turn at that time. More accessible play would not just lead to a greater customer experience, but may well reduce the peer pressure felt by clients who dealt with this by upping their spins to speed the game along.

He rightly pointed out that machines cost money so the likelihood of shops being swamped everywhere was highly unlikely and that natural "supply and demand" would dictate how many FOBTs were in individual shops. He also added that this should in theory ease the cluster issue, although did voice concern that this could lead to significant job losses where companies had a number of shops in a relatively small area.

Willie Lynas expressed concern that more machines could have a negative impact on over the counter trade, but added that the likelihood was that it was a positive thing for business and was the "price of progress".

Craig, manager of another company's betting shop in a neighbouring town, said "The impact of FOBTs are huge across the betting estate, more than four FOBTs will come. They definitely seem the way forward".

Turning to punters' perspective, Jake is happy to see more in the shop if it led to a more comfortable experience, but would have liked to see an increase in the jackpot to £1,000. John C questioned the need for extra and said he didn't mind waiting for a short time to play, although conceded that busy inner city shops should have the option if they felt that extra machines were needed.

The majority of customers said they were comfortable with the prospect of a few more, but there was not support for any more than ten. Wullie McBride said the status quo should remain, and that more would just look stupid. "A bookies should be a bookies, not an arcade" he said, and George K went even further in saying he would like to see them removed completely. George is a proper punter. He enjoys the sport of horseracing and is a knowledgeable man. He is concerned about the speed in which you can win or lose money on FOBTs and claims bookies would become busier places without them completely. His argument is that if someone comes into the shop with £100 in their pocket, betting £10 per horse race they have, in a worst case scenario over an hour and a half to lose all that money (races being ten minutes apart). That money, at the same £10 per play, can be gone inside ten minutes through FOBTs.

The issue of problem gambling is closely associated with FOBTs: our gambling compliance folder alone indicates a link.

As part of bookmakers' commitment to protecting the vulnerable, all bookmakers offer a service where if a customer feels that their gambling is getting out of control they can choose to self-exclude themselves from the shop. The minimum period of self-exclusion is six months, and can extend to five years. As a safety net, any customer who chooses this action cannot change their mind or the terms, and must observe a 24-hour 'cooling off' period before they are allowed to resume betting. This prevents any customer who could come back, but who may not have resolved their issues to succumb to temptation, have a spur of the moment binge.

Of the nine people who have self-excluded from Scotbet in Selkirk only two took this action because of their over the counter betting, the other seven all doing so because they have felt playing the machines was too much for them to control.

Again, on this issue John Nellies makes the point that self-exclusion is a positive step and that it is far easier for shop staff to be in a position to assist in these cases than have vulnerable people at home playing on devices where there isn't the same protection. "Our staff are trained to recognise any behaviour that may identify problem gambling and how to assist those most in need".

We have in Selkirk ten locations in the shop where the GamCare leaflets and helpline number are displayed. Social Responsibility is not something I take lightly and I have, with the support of our management, actively encouraged half a dozen of the nine who have self-excluded. It is our company policy to have leaflets beside each FOBT in the shop, and also in toilets where any customer can read or take away a leaflet without feeling he or she has the eyes of the shop on them while they battle their demons. Would extra machines make people who had no intention of playing them feel more compelled to try? John says "It really is a matter of personal choice. I don't believe that someone who has no interest in playing FOBTs would be more likely to were there ten machines in the shop rather than two".

John C complains that we are in danger of becoming a 'nanny state'. "If people work hard all week and decide to come into the bookies and blow a few quid in the machines then they should be able to. You have warnings up for people to get help so what more can you do?"

George K also says that there is assistance there, but questions whether everyone applies that help consistently across the board. "You have shops running competitions trying to get people who don't care about them hooked" he says, "how can that be right?"

John Nellies, on that point, replies: "Like every company in every industry all we are trying to do is showcase our new products and promote any edge we may have over our competitors. We do this in a cost free manner and it is not intended to lure people in or expose people to situations that they will find difficult to handle".

And me? I believe with the government taxation plan for FOBTs, more and more of them will appear and, if that is what the paying public want, then why not have them in betting shops?

But we must be vigilant to the potential problems that it may bring and make sure we have the correct support in place for those who do experience difficulties. We are all adults, but like the leaflet says, let's keep it fun.  Not everybody can.
Report lmfao October 29, 2012 12:57 PM GMT
its sad- course it is- but he's an idiot- if it wasnt a relatively quick hammering on a machine it would be a slow awful grind into destitution over a far longer drawn out period

i'd  favour the quick route- its probably done him a long term favour

trouble is- he'll go bankrupt and his other creditors will lose out- theres the real crime- not the plonker himself

and what if he'd won thousands? what then?  if you cant take the loss- dont play
Simples Cool
Report HAMMER88 October 29, 2012 1:00 PM GMT
it's addiction lmfao, be very different if he had say gathered 30k up and stuck it all on a horse wouldn't it.
Report chelsea girl October 29, 2012 1:01 PM GMT
ANDY BENNETT

Weblog: Betting Shop Manager of the Year

Sponsored by .......... yes, you know who. Laugh
Report Anaglogs Daughter October 29, 2012 1:03 PM GMT
And if the BOOKMAKERS reps on here think it's just us moaning on the forum read the replies to that piece surely they all can't be all Betfair Forum posters Mischief http://www.racingpost.com/blog/horse-racing/andy-bennett/super-frankel-shoul...
Report Anaglogs Daughter October 29, 2012 1:05 PM GMT
Sorry links too long, here's the shortened link http://bit.ly/OIifGh
Report harry2.1 October 29, 2012 1:06 PM GMT
A guy that ran his own business can not be described as an "idiot".
Report harry2.1 October 29, 2012 1:06 PM GMT
A guy that ran his own business can not be described as an "idiot".
Report lmfao October 29, 2012 1:07 PM GMT
Bookies should be made to accept all racing / sports bets up to the same liability of any one spin on these machines- or lose their licence

How much can be put on a single number- one spin anyway? Is there a limit?
Report chelsea girl October 29, 2012 1:09 PM GMT
Like these two:

Some fascinating posts Andy but this one shows your true colours - Ladbrokes with their fancy plate glass shops in Edinburgh - can see everything inside - except the FOBTs which are behind screens? so they can suck in people with addictions. a disgrace. 
Report abuse
06:54pm - 17 Aug 12davidemerson, United Kingdom
Bennett uses the RP platform to advance the lie that betting should be about entertainment and fun. Betting is always about winning or losing - it is most definitely not entertainment or fun. Face up to it Bennett, you deal primarily in FOBT addiction.
Report lmfao October 29, 2012 1:13 PM GMT
harry2.1 29 Oct 12 13:06 Joined: 05 Apr 10 | Topic/replies: 933 | Blogger: harry2.1's blog
A guy that ran his own business can not be described as an "idiot".



I repeat - what an idiot!
Report bilbobaggins October 29, 2012 1:14 PM GMT
to racingstar and raspberrybottom  - I hope you both never get into trouble and need good people to listen and help because your attitude absolutely sucks. I guarantee that one day you will need sympathetic people to help you out of a tight spot. I hope you remember your words hear when that happens.
Report bilbobaggins October 29, 2012 1:15 PM GMT
add in lmfao to that last post.
Report johnn October 29, 2012 1:16 PM GMT
Title should be "My stupidity cost me 250k and ruined my life"
Report harry2.1 October 29, 2012 1:21 PM GMT
LMFAO. Maybe you should educate yourself a bit before posting.
Report lmfao October 29, 2012 1:21 PM GMT
'my idiocy ruined my life'
Report disicipline=£££££££££££££sssss October 29, 2012 1:37 PM GMT
'my idiocy and boredom ruined my life'
Report ebulGery October 29, 2012 2:01 PM GMT
lmfao
29 Oct 12 13:07

Bookies should be made to accept all racing / sports bets up to the same liability of any one spin on these machines- or lose their licence

How much can be put on a single number- one spin anyway? Is there a limit?


totally agree lmfo

That punter would have found it very hard to lose £250K backing horses and dogs in a betting shop
...every bet he placed, he would have to wait until manager phoned through
then he would  be offered £10 at SPSad
Report Banned_Banks October 29, 2012 2:08 PM GMT
A licence permits you to take bets of your choice it does not make it mandatory for you to have to take bets.

A publican is licensed to sell alcohol if he wishes to do so. He can also refuse to sell it to certain individuals if he so chooses.
Report ebulGery October 29, 2012 2:12 PM GMT
this is a difficult problem

to a certain type of gambler the lure of these machines is irresistable
so they would would like them removed..
but then that takes the choice away from everybody...hmmm???????

I am not sure how allowing 20 FOBTS a shopShocked
is actually going to help this problemConfused
it seems a bit like trying to cure an alcoholic
by offering them more beerCrazy
Report HAMMER88 October 29, 2012 2:16 PM GMT
at the age of 18 nobody is a specific type of gambler in my view. the firms are attempting to create fobt addicts - to get the young ones on those machines early and to change older punters habits.
Report ebulGery October 29, 2012 2:16 PM GMT
I was being facetious BBWink
Report ebulGery October 29, 2012 2:18 PM GMT
from experience that is what happens though
well backing greyhounds on BAGSSad
Report harry2.1 October 29, 2012 2:20 PM GMT
Seaside arcades, started at about age six ! Facebook full of fruit machines and poker sites, national Lottery for 16 y o's.
Report lustrumm October 29, 2012 2:29 PM GMT
Of course we wouldn't even give a toss about it except that the FOBTs are in what we once considered the preserve of Horse/Sports betting entusiasts. David Ashforth in the Racing post used to always write about the "Bagsification of racing" or the seemingly neverending carve up of the Horse racing industry by the Big bookmaker chains. He gave up writing about it years ago because his valid points were falling on dear ears and anyway that war is long since lost. I wouldn't go into a betting shop to urinate now such is my contempt for them. If I want to have a bet I'll do it online and if I can't get on I'll leave it go. Betting shops don't exist on my radar now but I do feel utter contempt for the people that think FOBTs are just another part of the "Entertainment package" for people that should know better but don't due to their own failings and stupidiity
Report Blades October 29, 2012 2:45 PM GMT
Anaglogs - you always post useful stories - thanks!

These FOBTs are designed to optimise profit and exploit human weakness. They are not a good thing....I believe that they should be limited and there should be limits on losses.....us humans are weak so we need a little help.
Report raspberrybottom October 29, 2012 2:49 PM GMT
bilbo and lmfao - sorry if I came across wrongly - that's not my attitude at all. I genuinely feel sorry for the bloke and hope he manages to sort himself out - I think the FOBT's are hateful things.

All I said was that he got to a point where he was able to "distract" himself and use his "willpower" to stop playing the things. Just an awful shame that it came too late.
Report duffy October 29, 2012 2:50 PM GMT
I remember as a very young lad in the late 70's playing those 5p fruit machines, loved them, pears cherries, plums oranges cherries, bells and bars, hold two in the middle and a 3rd would drop in...i'd love to have one of those in my house to mess about on....all seemed innocent then....don't bloody understand the ones these days.
Report raspberrybottom October 29, 2012 2:53 PM GMT
My post at 14:49 was for HAMMER88 as well.


Like I said, I hope the guy gets through it okay.
Report bilbobaggins October 29, 2012 2:53 PM GMT
Fair play raspberry.
Report HAMMER88 October 29, 2012 3:01 PM GMT
i often wonder what these people who push these machines think of themselves at the end of the day, being a machines manager must be one of the most immoral legal jobs going at the moment?
Report jajabink October 29, 2012 3:22 PM GMT
how can the RP say that horse racing is the core product when fobts account for 50-60% of the annual profit,ive lost about 9k over a period of about 6 years playing those machines lost a job i liked and almost my family but ive also lost about 15k gambling on various things over a 15 year period including on here,only just started to build again still back horses but i keep a record and dont play casino games or any crap which i cant win on,its a slow process but can be done
Report Anaglogs Daughter October 29, 2012 3:25 PM GMT
Duffy you can go on e-bay and get those retro machines(I dont know why people who want to play FOBTs don't buy thm an put them in their garage or something)
Report HAMMER88 October 29, 2012 3:40 PM GMT
they should show what the maximum win is off each spin, i have watched people on these things and they have every number covered so they are staking saying 60 quid and the most they can get back is say 65. you should also probably not be allowed to have a bet where you cannot win - such as 5 on red and 5 on black, i have seen some people do that (don't ask me why they do that) - with otc betting you can't have a bet where you cannot profit from it i think.
Report 1st time poster October 29, 2012 5:57 PM GMT
is it any different to lads 40 ,50 years ago stopping back after work and losing all their wages at cards,or blokes walking into the bookies and putting their weeks wages on the next fav,people used to do it in their 1000,s ,
how can you help someone who doesnt realise you cant win on a fruit machine,these machines arnt in the middle of the road you have to enter premises to take part,as said if you do 100 ,2oo a day you could easily do that and more in anyone of the umpteen amusement arcades in the high street
Report lmfao October 29, 2012 6:51 PM GMT
harry2.1
harry2.1's blog
LMFAO. Maybe you should educate yourself a bit before posting.


Sorry for the delay- I've spent the afternoon boning up on the classics/Fermat's last theorum/quantum mechanics and egyption archaeology , crop rotation in the 14th century and The Life and Times of Jude The Obscure


Now - This nutter losing £220k on a slot machine is an idiot.

IMO

Cool
Report Alias October 29, 2012 6:59 PM GMT
A licence permits you to take bets of your choice it does not make it mandatory for you to have to take bets.

Of your choice? Not exactly. The problem is however, as highlighted before, that many of us can't get £50 at evens on a football match, but no one is going to stop us firing a grand into a phucking machine. It's immoral, pure and simple.
Report flushgordon1 October 29, 2012 7:20 PM GMT
what alias said- betting on horses,dogs,football  is using your own judgement and on your decision you win or lose,
on fobts it is a game of chance and there is a fair chance you cant win.
between these machines and the thing that really gets on my feckin wick is the feckin cartoon racing and the juanker commentators they should really be ashamed to look themselves in the mirror feckin parasites.
Report flushgordon1 October 29, 2012 7:22 PM GMT
ps i dont play fobts and i have told the cashiers in my local cream cookies that if i ever ask to have a bet a postman pat or any other cartoon bollux they slap me as hard as they can and order me a taxi.
Report Banned_Banks October 29, 2012 7:29 PM GMT
Alias I think you have misread my post. I was suggesting that the bookmakers choose which bets to take not the punters.

I struggle to see what is immoral. It is crazy to suggest that anyone in any line of business should be able to force someone to transact with them against their will.
Report alfee October 29, 2012 7:34 PM GMT
just had a walk to a billys shop to read the post, just open the door and heard a disturbing loud smash ! , a asian man woz smashing fk out of a machine, i decided to fk off .
Report -Tom- October 29, 2012 7:43 PM GMT
Thats what they do to people.
Report xmoneyx October 29, 2012 7:46 PM GMT
Bruce lees grandson
Report flushgordon1 October 29, 2012 7:47 PM GMT
its ok you dont get reported for doing a machine only banned from the shop as long as you dont steal any money,
they will only report you to internal security and not the police as they dont want any bad publicity/figures especially whilst they are lobbying parliament for more machines.
parasites,vagabond and scum our politicians and the bookmaking industry.
Report racingstar October 29, 2012 8:24 PM GMT
"The man ran his own Business and can be called a fool"
Never has there been a more stupid post.
In thirty years professional punting I have seen more highly successful businessmen go skint on the horses than I can remember.
Report racingstar October 29, 2012 8:25 PM GMT
* For can,read Cannot !
Report ima_mazed66 October 29, 2012 9:21 PM GMT
For £250k he could quite easily have bought his own stock of machines!

And there are some very naive people on here if they think there aren't some in society who don't need protecting from themselves...........why not make all drugs legal while we are at it and just shrug our shoulders and say "well they are free to kill themselves and nobody forced them too so if it wasn't drugs it would have been booze or something else."

All of us are addicted to something in one way or another it's just some things are more lethal than others.
Report HAMMER88 October 29, 2012 10:19 PM GMT
this is the thing - when blokes in the 80s etc put their wage on the fav on the way home - if it won i assume they left, these people cannot stop once they win - they only stop when all their cash is gone.
Report peace and love October 30, 2012 7:10 AM GMT
always a good read Anaglogs Daughter
Report kingell October 30, 2012 8:12 AM GMT
The FOBT games are run at just the right frequency,
the high from the previous spin (win or lose)is still there and reason goes out the window.
With other forms of gambling the break between events-say horse races-
will give  time for post-mortem on last event and look at form for next event
and allows time for reason to return and at least  time for you to
count the money left in your pocket.
Report chelsea girl October 30, 2012 9:24 AM GMT
Nicely put kingell.
Report parispike October 30, 2012 9:34 AM GMT
Banned Banks

It is crazy to suggest that anyone in any line of business should be able to force someone to transact with them against their will.

What other retail business declines to deal with customers please?
Report whodareswins October 30, 2012 9:44 AM GMT
pp it is a requirement of every alcohol licence that permits alcohol to be consumed on the premises (so pubs and restaurants )that a person who seems to the licensee or his designated person/s ( the barman ) to be inebriated ( drunk ) should be served any alcoholic drink.  So licensee's are required not to deal with their customers under certain circumstances.
Report whodareswins October 30, 2012 9:57 AM GMT
For those who have a serious concern about FOBT the 2005 Gambling Act requires all local authorities to publish a Statement of Principles each three year period. 

That means your local district council - the one to where you pay your Council Tax - has to publish and approve its policy once every three years.

If you want to change anything about FOBT licensing contact them.

The Gambling Act requires consultation between

1)  The Chief Police Officer
2)  One or more persons who appear to the authority to represent the interests of persons carrying on gambling businesses in the authority's area.
3)  One or more persons who appear to the authority to represent the interests of persons who are likely to be affected by the exercise of the authority's functions under the Gambling Act 2005.

Not too difficult to work out the first two who have to be consulted.  The third one looks to be the problem.
Report flushgordon1 October 30, 2012 10:46 AM GMT
pubs dont serve drink to people under the influenceLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
if that is the extent of your argument?
Report whodareswins October 30, 2012 10:54 AM GMT
What the law says and what enforcement there is of it are not always the same.  Laugh if you like ignorance can be comforting to those who only want to whinge.
Report flushgordon1 October 30, 2012 10:59 AM GMT
i am glad you have the clarity to see your own failings and wish you well in the comfort of your ignorance.
Report whodareswins October 30, 2012 11:03 AM GMT
not only the clarity, but also the charity to see ignorance in others and to ignore it.
Report flushgordon1 October 30, 2012 11:04 AM GMT
your not doing very well on the ignoring thenHappy
Report flushgordon1 October 30, 2012 11:05 AM GMT
anyway none intended whodares .
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