Inglorious end John Dunlop (Castle Stables ltd) Administration

Racing Post p4 Graham Green 24/10/12

Pro gamblers don't pay tax.

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be good viewing when Lydia/Lucky grill him on this...

How sad. Inglorious end indeed.

I would put good money on the fact that JD kept the show on the road personally knowing his staff for so long and how difficult it would be to re-employ and re-house them. I bet he has been living that nightmare for a long time now hoping something would come along to change things but it didn't. And then he had to face up to this. Really sad but still a great, great trainer.

brigust - a truly wonderful sentiment and one I genuinely hope is correct (other than any nightmare for JD needless to say).

That's the end then?
No follow on for Arundel stable.
Son's Ed and Harry have their own stables to run.

Shame really as Hills family carry on and probably Channon's son will carry
on - like Hannon and similar racing trainer families.

It's better when the stable carries on, especially when one keeps stable statistics.
Kremlin Road is a good example as Roger Varian the assistant trainer took over after Michael Jarvis and not much has changed.

More like, I'm availing of the protection afforded to me by trading as a ltd company.
"I was advised by my financial advisers it was the best thing to do" for Mr Dunlop that is
Likely staff will receive a lot less than they are entitled too, while Mr Dunlop hangs
onto all his assets,and cash reserves. Hence the lack of comment. Hope I'm wrong.

oh,

Thats what I thought whe I read the original post. I'm sure it's not the last we'll here of the stables sad demise, I'd be surprised if some of the staff aren't happy and share that with the press.

John Dunlop always came over as a gentleman and was a wonderful trainer in his time, those are the thoughts I want to retain.

I doubt very much JD would detail what his contribution has been because he sounds and looks like an honourable man to me. Going down with the ship will not achieve anything and it is very likely that he has reinvested a lot of his earnings over the years to keep the ship afloat. I don't know what contributions the staff have made from their earnings to do the same.
It is true the tax payer will have to pick up the bill but I am certainly happier for that than some of things this and other governments have spent my tax contributions on.

True brig - the rich must be allowed to keep their agreeable houses, however many they have and whichever country they may be in.

I don't know what contributions the staff have made from their earnings to do the same.
Probably their whole working life Mr Brigust, that's what they have invested, and it seems
they will just be giving the minimum, that the legal process affords them. I bet the arundal
stables asset is not part of the liquidation process, probably leased to the LTD company, before
reverting back to JD. He wont be going down with the ship, as you put it, looks like he's prepared
for the sinking well advance.

i know 5 lads who work there and they aint got a bad word to say about dunlop ..........

When was the last time you spoke to them, give em a bell now.

Ohyou, do you not think the staff new JD was at the very least getting older? The results were poor recently and the number of horses were down were there any clues there? Do you not think we have a resposibility to ourselves? I'm sure they have been well paid and live in comfortable accomodation this is a sad time but surely all of the resposibility doesn't rest on JD's shoulders. The clues were there.

This is an area I know nothing about but had JD remained a trainer until his staff retired would they be getting a lump sum for redundancy or just go onto a pension? And what would have happened to their homes?

You dont get folk working 20 or 30 years for you unless your a damn decent type , im sure they were well aware and will come away with something , he strikes me as a very proud man and the type to make sure everyone gets a slice before he does

voluntary liquidation is just that, voluntary.  it means the business has sufficient funds at its disposal to operate, is a going concern, and anyone talking about "going down with the ship" has little clue about what is happening.

the advantage of liquidation for Dunlop is that it removes the obligation for him to offer and pay redundancy, which is why any financial advisor would have told him to take that option;  perhaps there are other investors/backers that would also benefit from the decision, and he as manager would be neglecting their interests to take some other route.

once all accounts are settled (HMRC taking the longest time) and liquidators fees assessed there should be surplus cash that may then be distributed

I know we don't agree often Hello but I am 100% behind you on that one.

If JD has been fair with his staff thru all this  - the RP could have reported it in a better light  -  to just say 'I was advised by my fin advs and accts that was the best thing to do' leaves suspicious minds wanting to know exactly 'the best thing to do for who!' nevermind that he gives an impression that he cannot think for himself. Or is that the facade he/his advisors wish to portray?

Taking the RP report at face value (which I dont) he is been shown in a dark light

The last Accounts filed by Castle Stables Limited for the year ended 31 December 2010 show an Accumulated Losses of £795,767 with an excess of Liabilities over Assets of £795,765. The company was only able to trade as a "going concern" as a result of the sole director i.e. John Dunlop providing a letter of comfort that he would support the company for the foreseeable future.

However, the Accountants expressed the view that "the financial statements indicate a material uncertainty which may cast a significant doubt about the company's ability to continue as a going concern."

Much as i lke J.D. this smacks as a way of avoiding his responsibilities.

We(the taxpayers) are being left to pick up the tab.

Since 1 March 2012, changes in tax legislation (specifically the removal of ESC C16) have meant Members Voluntary Liquidations (MVLs) can be a tax efficient method of shareholders extracting funds from a redundant company. If a company's assets exceed £25,000, upon strike off any distributions would be taxed on the shareholders as dividends, whereas via an MVL distributions would be treated as capital gains receipts. Because of this legislative change, the demand for cheap MVLs has increased significantly.

interview now.

When asked about the liquidation he said he had been advised that was the best way for him and his staff.

horses wont leave yard, most staff retained by new ltd that leases yard, just away of re-setting the books legal responsibilities, i would wager the new out of the blue new leasees will be the same share-holders.

So the "Paxman" interview is left until later.

And all staff will have to re-apply for their jobs, thus seniority, years of service count for nothing. The only way it is an honorable way out for him is if he has been putting in his own money for a few years to keep going. I'll believe that when the evidence shows it

yeah most will be taken on again, but atmosphere will gradually begin to stink, as they re-alise theyve been had-over.

And all staff will have to re-apply for their jobs, thus seniority, years of service count for nothing. The only way it is an honorable way out for him is if he has been putting in his own money for a few years to keep going. I'll believe that when the evidence shows it

or you could just not jump to conclusions rather than putting the burden of proof on him

At Dunlop's peak only Prescott was more adept at cheating the handicap system. What is all this "honourable" sh1te about?

i hope those that deserve it , get whats coming to them...

Aye, lets hope so !

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Anyone running a business for the last few years will have been subsidising it to keep it going so he has probably subsidised wages when none existed. I like to think he is honourable to his close staff but cant judge him badly if it is the taxman and his every greedy mitts pushing him out of business.

The last Accounts filed by Castle Stables Limited for the year ended 31 December 2010 show an Accumulated Losses of £795,767 with an excess of Liabilities over Assets of £795,765. The company was only able to trade as a "going concern" as a result of the sole director i.e. John Dunlop providing a letter of comfort that he would support the company for the foreseeable future.

.... and given the fortunes of the yard 2011-12, those figures will only have got worse. The accountant's report suggests Dunlop has been subsidising the company (and the employees wages) for some time to keep it going

I read about 5 years ago Dunlop sayig he wish he owned his stables. It would appear from what he said then he was not doing well and the accounts appear to bear that point out. This looks very much like a case of going on too long. That is not good for anyone.

The above poster should be banned.

Maybe, but he appears a little more informed than you, on this thread anyway.

Sugarfoot - you are referring to a Members Voluntary Liquidation which is the liquidation of a solvent company. A Creditors Voluntary Liquidation, which is the case her, is the liquidation of an insolvent company. The voluntary aspect is that the shareholders consent to place the company into liquidation rather than requiring a creditor to petition the court. Nevertheless it is likely that there will be a significant deficiency rather than a surplus.

Dosn't say much for BRITISH racing if one of Dunlops standing and patronage ends in this way.
Strange how he encouraged TWO sons to follow in his footsteps IF the industry is in such a poor state????

Too many trainers. Looks like plenty will have to get proper jobs soon.

Mombasa

Last time, 50/1, 8th of 15 btn 10L, timeform comment "seemingly being brought along with handicaps in mind, seems to be building up to something, not knocked about, never on terms".

Today, gambled on and hoses up.

Where would we all be without these "honourable gentlemen"?

Betfair Eddie obviously played his part last time.

John helped finance both sons to set up as trainers. If John Leeper wins maybe some of the prize money could be used to pay off their debts.