WHY DID THE REGULER RACEGOER STOP GOING RACING.

I went to Stratford a couple of months back, we were that bored we left halfway through the card.

going racing is for mugs  and drunks only

Used to go to 150-180 NH meetings a year.

Now go to none.

Reasons:

1. BF above all. Why go racing when you can get roughly the saame or better prices on here?

2. Racing became more corrupt than ever with shenanigans almost on a daily basis. YES YES YES it used to happen, but with nowhere near the same frequency and encouraged by an inept BHA permitting a surfeit of handicaps.


The only racing now worth attending is point-to-pointing, 99% straight with no handicaps and ABOVE ALL bookmakers taht bet to opinions.

Only ever been to one PtP.Over-rounds of the best part of 200% in most races.Didn't have a bet.

Its quite sad to see such a high profile person like Barry Dennis look with disdain on "£2 punters "

when was that iambambo? 1960?
Markets at places like Larkhill or Chaddesley can be stronger than Tatts at midweek meetings.

there are a good number who show a profit every day betting at points.
the betting percentage only consists of those with ability and triers...that 200% is often actually 80% overbroke but mug money makes up the balance

years ago everybody went for the racing now they go to get drunk that is what stopped me going to many pissheads ruining a good day out

When I started full time punting, going to the track was the only option, because it was the only place you could bet tax free. That saving more than covered the expenses and of course you also had the advantage of seeing the horses and the races live.

In the 90's I'd be on course 150+ days per annum. Now I go about a tenth of that. Why - the travelling is much more tiresome, the midweek cards consist mainly of multiple moderate handicaps, the best races are all staged in a two hour chunk on Saturday afternoon, the bookies I'd use in the 90's have mostly disappeared.

And of course, the ultimate reason - why sit in a car for two hours or more, pay £15 to £25 admission, in order to stand in the cold and wet taking lower prices than I can get at home?

I could add stands that offer zero view of the racing (Stratford, Windsor etc), tracks that send horses straight to the start, pop concerts inflating the admission charges, music stages blocking the view of the racing, drunks attempting the UK allcomers lager record, fatuous ear bashing from the likes of Chapman and Thommo over the loudspeakers, elf and safety rules that mean rails everywhere to make movement more difficult ......

miprixabloater
thank you

TheAnorak...totally agree with all your points...betfair has ended any need to go racing and it is impossible to justify the expense of getting to and into racecourses (unless in-running is your game). I miss the banter and cameradery of racing, but realistically that has largely been absent on the rare occasions that I venture racing (in the south) these days. Times move on I guess...

I was a regular at Cottenham p2p when I lived near Cambridge and I found there was tremendous value to be had in the ring, if you had half a clue about what you were doing there %ages were very much in your favour and you could get a decent bet on no problem.

wizard,About 10 years ago,at Musselburgh.

In one race the favourite,a once time fairly high class chaser was priced at 1/7.The % on the remainder added up to about 100%.I spent the afternoon doing mental arithmetic.

Standard of jockeys = worst in living memory.... Standard of Racing = worst in living memory...... Corruption = absolutely Rife... Those are the reasons that I have no Financial involvement in the Game any more.

Iamajambo
I know the meeting you are on about & what you are saying is probably correct.There were I believe two points on Musselburgh & the first one was packed out.I work the Northern points but never got a pitch at Musselburgh,there were reasons which I'm not putting up on here.However that was not the norm for a Northern point,true usually the books do open up to massive % but I can assure you those % don't stay there long.On Maidens we are usualy down to about 120% whilst on the Opens betting overbroke is a regular thing.Quite a few of us bet to our own opinion so % mean little to us as long as we lay the ones we want to lay.Anyone trying to make a book at a Northern point apart from the Fife or Lanarks will go skint in a year.Why do you think there's punters turn up at every meeting & are lumping on?They don't just have fivers or tenners on,quite often they'll ask"How much can I have on"?They know the score & would rather be pointing than messing about punting at the recognised tracks.
If you do happen to try pointing again on the Northern circuit come & introduce yourself(just ask for the Parson or poverty)I may be able to guide you a little & you may look at the game in a different light.
P.S. Sorry about your Musselburgh experience but believe me points like that are very rare on the Northern circuit.

By: This user is offline. barry dennis Date Joined: 23 Jan 02
Add contact | Send message When: 22 Oct 12 19:39 Joined: Date Joined: 23 Jan 02 | Topic/replies: 547 | Blogger: barry dennis's blog
happy harry the 8/9 on here suits you cos its only to £2, real punters repeat REAL punters come racing and back horses to win £20/£30 grand


Oh how we laughed......................

Too many drunks on a saturday, only go midweek now and laughable when line upon line of books show exactly the same prices.

Panic like fook dont they if someone else shortens one

and every single one of those prices is BIGGER than they were 10 plus years ago when you sought out the "value "

treetop

where on earth do you go midweek where theres line upon line of bookmakers ?

Plenty of valid points here but perhaps not the best place to ask the question bearing in mind the majority on here are mainly concerned with the gambling as opposed to the spectacle.I agree with cost being a factor for some and compared with the rest of the world it appears that racecourses like too many other sporting venues sting the average person for the privelege of a visit.

Personally cost has little bearing on when or where I attend a meeting as it usually coincides with a visit back to the UK.However I do attend the Arc meeting regularly (this years being the first I have missed since 1990) and Longchamp highlights every element of where UK racing is failing punters.Low admission,cheap food and drink of a quality rarely experienced at a UK course.

The after racing concerts are probably all thats keeping some courses afloat in the UK.Racing For Change have missed a huge opportunity to get real racing fans back to the courses,the free entry at Ascot enticed non racegoers and was apparently a huge success in terms of numbers.

Why dont they get the courses to form regional partnerships that offer incentives such as visit say Taunton and offer a free entry to Wincanton or Exeter and after say 5 visits to any of the course in a region a further free entry + one additional for a family member or friend.Basically a loyalty scheme which could go as far as offering a lunch,free entry and a racecard after every 10th visit,or something along those lines.

The true cost to the courses would be miniscule but might just generate some interest from punters and non racegoers to attend.In addition sort out the bookmakers and stop them ripping off novices/first time racegoers such as Barry Dennis has previously confessed to.

e.g. Slightly exagerated to make a point -  What percentage of Royal Ascot, Cheltenham Festival, Epsom Derby etc., attendees are the slightest bit interested or have the slightest knowledge about anything to do with horse racing?!

Theres only one race course where the racegoer gets value thats Towcester and you get fook all once your in.

Matt has been a ray of light in the paddock(room to see the horses pre parade as well)
Decent view of the track,get close to a hurdle or fence if you so choose
BIG screen and plenty of room to view nr the finish line
Drink in the bar if thats your bag,food and hot drinks not too excessivly priced
20 or so books most meetings
free parking

Why do other course not see this as the way forward ??

Personally cost has little bearing on when or where I attend a meeting as it usually coincides with a visit back to the UK.However I do attend the Arc meeting regularly (this years being the first I have missed since 1990) and Longchamp highlights every element of where UK racing is failing punters.Low admission,cheap food and drink of a quality rarely experienced at a UK course.

The Arc comparison is disingenuous as the admission price is heavily subsidised via the pari mutuel and therefore comes at a great cost to punters ie little betting choice.

In fact this limited betting product is one of the main reasons why pretty much every other raceday in France is deserted.

The Aussies have got the right product as regards to the structure of the industry with regards to prize money and entrance fees. Off course TAB monopoly and the TAB and independant bookmakers on course. Perfect scenario.

Why dont they get the courses to form regional partnerships that offer incentives such as visit say Taunton and offer a free entry to Wincanton or Exeter and after say 5 visits to any of the course in a region a further free entry + one additional for a family member or friend.Basically a loyalty scheme which could go as far as offering a lunch,free entry and a racecard after every 10th visit,or something along those lines.


I think there is a Go Racing in Yorkshire annual pass for something like £300 which gets you into virtually every meeting in the county aside from the Ebor and maybe an odd other day.

Cheltenham have started to sell a ticket to their 4 Saturdays but I agree that there is not much else about to tempt regular racegoers.

I go racing about 30/40 times a year and like to travel around a bit. Add in the fact that I work full time meaning that course specific memberships are usually not worth it and I am left with pretty much nothing to entice me to attend more than I already do.

Having been to Longchamp for a premier Sunday meeting I can tell you that when the Arc is not on staffing levels are still the same.The PM booths have one person working and the other five smoking.They know that the few hundred who attend are in no hurry.As for cheaper food and drink dream on !! The Restaurant workers were amazed when I pushed open the doors and demanded a bottle of wine an hour before the last race.They had been polishing the bottles all afternoon....

French racecourse workers live in a Socialist Paradise

Agree about Towcester.  Free entry, good facilites, proper NH and all for free.

Because racing is finished

Betfair will soon be finished

Banned Banks,Longchamp is only one example.The French do not have the same passion for racing as the British,Irish or Americans........that is the reason the courses generally have small turnouts.

My point is that if UK courses offered more in the way of value people would attend,also why I mentioned regional incentives to keep travel costs etc to a minimum for ordinary punters.The whole business model is skewed,2,000 people attending a meeting at £5 per head surely has to be better than 200 at £20 per head given the additional spend on course through betting,catering etc?

Simplistic maybe but unless something is done soon the courses will have priced themselves out of the market for the leisure £.Personally I think £20 for 3+ hours of entertainment is excellent value but the additional costs for ordinary fans eg travel etc can take a chunk out of their budget.Charging £5 instead of £20 could give the punter £15 to help cover the additional cost and may encourage more to make the effort.

As for Longchamp being subsidised it would make little difference if the entry was £20-£30 for most who attend the Arc meeting.The food and drink is not subsidised and yet is cheap in comparison and of much better quality than the UK.

Quality is worth paying for,Champions Day at Ascot hardly came near the Saturday of the Arc meeting in all respects.Take Frankel out and it would have been like an average day at a provincial course in France.

I dont need to write an essay on this one

Racing is finished

thx for reply adge ,,,,,,,,barry i give you your due you used to lay me 5k 8k bets ,,,,,,,,about 7 years back but ........no way anyone betting in telephone numbers on course now ,,,,,,unless the slush puppy man about ,,,,,,

It would be interesting if Racing joined with Betfair to provide BF terminals instead of Toat outlets for cash betting by racegoers. Most of us want to know what odds we get when we bet but a move like that could change the course betting approach.

TREETOP,U WOULD GET MORE ON IN THE LOCAL PUB

At home:
It never rains
You see all of the race on TV
Better odds; you can ask for odds
No travel costs
No time wasted going there and coming home
You are guaranteed payment (four times I had to fight to get paid on course)

Seems i am in a minority when i say i go racing to see the horses.
Most on here seem more bothered about their bets,and the price of food and drink.

You can bet before you go,drink when you get home,eat before and after.
But their is only one option if you want to see the main ingredient of Horseracing,and thats on the racecourse.

correct buddeliea simple as that.

jimnast, budd, please dont encourage armchair punters to come racing, think how much fun it is laying them horses that cant win because of pre-parade ring antics and all those that bolt to post that they cant see.

Its what gives me greatest pleasure.

barry do you remember at lingfield the horse with the same name ,but with ire after it ..........would be 12/15 years ago the  handicapper fkd up it was 2 stone well in ,,,,,,,,,,,,i remember you screaming so loud  they put the following race back 30 mins ,,,,,as the horses were scared going to post

I am 52 and have been going racing since I was 12. During the second half of the 1980's (a golden period for racing IMO) I was a member at Brighton, Newmarket and Sandown and, because I worked shifts, would go to the tracks 3 or 4 times a week minimum. So, I do know the subject matter here.


I went because I loved betting, loved the atmosphere of almost every track (except Kempton for some reason!) and loved watching the horses.

But now I almost don't go at all - twice in the past year and a bit. Why? Simply because all the things I have listed above have gone. Betting on course is a shadow of its former self, there is no atmosphere (full of drunks and idiots at weekends) and there is so much dross racing it has become dull and stale.

The tracks failed to realise what was happening some years ago now but then latched on to something that would bale them out. The older racegoers, so prelevant in my heyday, started to die off and were not replaced in the numbers required to keep tracks viable, let alone the betting ring vibrant. Betfair also played a large part in this, taking away those punters who would have been bigger players on course. In an belated effort to do something about it, the tracks then started a drive towards a younger market place and were rewarded when going to the races to dress up and drink in large amouts became appealing to a generation who didn't understand betting.

Thus, the dynamics of the courses have changed. But not for the better for people like me.

I went to Ponty a coule of Mondays ago and, not for the first time in recent years, was fascinated by rails boomakers taking £1 bets off mini-skirted women! In my heyday, you had to be a bit of a player to use the rails bookies.

Where does all this observation leave us though? Well, there is no going back now IMO. Unless by some miracle we start to see younger generations develop betting knowledge, and tracks find a way of their betting markets negating the appeal of Betfair, racing attendees will remain dressed up drinkers and not real punters. Of course, that is a fragile market itself and tracks could yet suffer if something else takes this new clientel away.

It isn't the fault of on course bookies, who can blame them for trying to lay at one price to the mugs and then lay off on here or the other exchanges? BTW, please don't tell me there is loads of value on course nowadays. The books follow the exchanges and if someone chooses to step out of line they won't take big bets anyway.

None of this is anyones's fault really, times have just changed.

The only thing I can think of that might help is if BF was made widely available at the tracks. I would certainly start going again if that was the case.

I wish I had a solution, to go back to the days of Cecil / Cauthen and the rest from the 1980's would be bliss!

BOOKIES ONLY SMILE WHEN THEY ARE WINNING.
PATTING EACH OTHER ON THE BACK. WHEN LOSING
STABBING EACH OTHER IN THE BACK.

nnot many proper bookies left ,,,,,,,,,,,,all betfair reps ,,,,,,,,,,

The older racegoers, so prelevant in my heyday, started to die off and were not replaced in the numbers required to keep tracks viable, let alone the betting ring vibrant.

They simply don't give a toss.

Haydock's attitude is a perfect example of who racecourses want attending - no discount on annual badges for OAPs, but if you bring a big group along for a piss-up you get a discount.

RACECOURSE BOOKMAKERS R.I.P.

never had it so good. good picks/ pitches fetching more than ever

Take a typical midweek meeting at one of my favourite tracks, Wincanton. They raced last week and the same meeting has been staged on a Thursday for many years. Figures come from the Levy Board website:

2012  :   2 divs of maiden hurdle, 5 handicaps and a bumper    Attendance 2,400   Bookies present 22

1997  :   3 novice hurdles, a novice chase, 3 handicaps, including the £30k Desert Orchid Pattern Chase   Attendance  6,000  Bookies present 52


The quality of the racing has gone down, the prize money has gone down, the number of books has gone down, the crowd has gone down - in fact the only thing that's gone up is the cost of admission.

1980's - Punters who went racing and the game was to go in the ring and get the best price. Plenty of cash around. Maybe have a drink between races if time.
After the last recession in the late eighties a lot of the big punters went skint, there was less money around and the attendances started going downhill.
Today all the decent races are weekends where the under thirties are targetted who basically come to get drunk and MAYBE have a few quid on the tote.
At Ascot, droves of 18-30 year olds will be there, say next Saturday week, turn up at 12.00, have a few beers, and their main focus for the first hour will be to watch the lunchtime football game on the tv, then prop up the bar all afternoon. Plenty watch the racing on the TV, despite being 20 yards or less , from one of the best viewing points on the racecourse, on the fourth floor, almost by the winning line in the Premier Enclosure. This is the norm. I've sat and watched this happen, ever since the re-opening in June 2006. They probably wouldn't notice if a virtual race was shown. It's just a day on the lash for a lot. A large proportion of annual members were lost also, as their value was not appreciated.

the high cost of admission is keeping folk away and racing's answer to it is to increase admission costs. 

seems to be working ok.

this started as a wind up thread i believe from happyharry,along the way theres been some very well put and interesting posts about why some dont go racing very much anymore,perhaps rfc or the bha could have a look at this thread they just might find it to be off some help.

I agree with Matso.

Dont kid yourself.with overheads and all the aggro of travelling and other ex's.its a waste of time and effort.As above says,it's not like it used to be.

Since the emergence of exchanges the whole game is changed.

Owners certainly dont make a profit out of prize money.

Oops.Slowly away from the stalls.

Still nothing on Lance Armstrong, yet.

If your sole interest in racing is to gamble, then the track isnt for you. Seeing the horses in the parade ring, seeing the jockeys close up, spotting the trainers and trying to earwig their conversations. All magical stuff to me, and i still have that enthusiasm even now.

Betfair however has fecked the game completely. Cheating in the game is rife, and watching non trier after non trier, my average bet now is less than half what it was 20 years ago.

barry dennis
24 Oct 12 08:30   

jimnast, budd, please dont encourage armchair punters to come racing, think how much fun it is laying them horses that cant win because of pre-parade ring antics and all those that bolt to post that they cant see.

Its what gives me greatest pleasure.

Its a shame you seem unable to come across as anything but bitter Barry , someone high profile like you could have actualy done some good for racing , enjoy your chips

While anorak points out a dramatic reduction in attendance at a particular wincanton meeting have attendances really fallen that much even midweek? I doubt it,its just that the bigger punters are now on here mostly and there are far more recreational punters about and everyone seems to have forgot that the country is skint so people aren't spending like they used to.As for the poster who wants betfair on course what's stopping them? They can buy a pitch just like everyone else,why don't you have a word with them?lol.

Betfair already have 75% of the pitches in most rings why would they want to pay when at them moment they are given the business automatically

Ribero,

It's occurred to me since I posted that the difference in those Wincanton crowds may be partly down to 1997 being during half term and this year not - but the big race in 1997 did include the current Gold Cup winner (Mr Mulligan) making his seasonal debut, not something likely to happen midweek nowadays.

Hi,anorak,no doubt more to it than that and i take your point,i have been racing regularly since the mid 70's first as a punter now on the other side of the fence and without checking it always felt very relaxed and comfortable and lets not forget no one priced up until 10 mins before the race midweek until this place ruined it all,cest la vie!

The world is changing and although the tracks are partly to blame for lack of investment in facilities the prospect of recruiting the younger element to become regular racegoers is dubious. My grandad started my racecourse education but taking my grandkids nowadays to a shabby track, manned by jobsworths and watching(mostly)low grade racing is not going to turn them into regular racegoers. When you look at the other options available for them to have a good day out at a place where they are treated as valued customers who know they will be made welcome on each visit, unfortunately leaves racing as a poor relation as far as hospitality and value for money.

I for one would take issue here

If there is a better day out than watching non jiggers hobbling around southwell whilst paying £8 for a burger made with the finest argentinian beef , and getting a very generous 1/6 a place then please tell me

cheers ( A **** sussex )

Jimnast...they will be reading this thread as soon as they get back from lunch...in about 2042

The cost of a day at the races is a major issue for me.The Hennessy used to be my favourite race,but stopped going when they hiked the price(£45 /£30 this year),not to mention rip-off food and drink prices.

I'm a big fan of NH racing and until recently used to go more often when I was still working than when I retired.I view NH racing as primarily a spectator sport which,of course,is enhanced by the gambling.I love the beauty and athleticism of the horses,the colour and excitement of a day at the races but with every race on the tele and internet betting I would only go when I had a number of strong fancies.That said,last season I went to more fixtures than ever before,for one simple reason.Courtesy of my Sandown reciprocals,RUK days and the Daily Mirror Punters Club days(for an outlay of £25 I had about 10 feebies) entrance was free at about half of the fixtures that I attended.Another consideration was the over 60s discount given by many courses.So I'm going more often because of the 'value' that I've found.More courses might benefit by taking the Towcester route.

ribero, adge etc make some interesting points....yes adge the price percentage layers bet to is far lower now than it was say 20 years ago...however it is inevitably still more than the percentage available on betfair. Secondly, the prices did go up around 5-10 mins pre-race many years ago, but they were prices formed by an opinionated BOOKMAKER..betting with his own cash and willing to lay that opinion...not a copy of a price mechanism less a few ticks. BD seems to occupy a fantasy land where everything is rosy...the facts are rather different on-course

Solutions....free entry to all racecourses....remove betfair from the ring and ban hedging into it...all the cash stays in the ring....standard place terms have to be the same for every bookmaker who wishes to bet....hope this helps!

I've always thought Dennis was an odious ignoramus and every time he posts just confirms my opinion.

If you are making so much money from the mugs spend 15 grand to get your rotten teeth sorted out.

if only lightbulbs.

SLIPPYBLUE
HIS NICK NAME IS TOFFEE TEETH.

They got constipated

in his younger days they did not
have toothbrushes they just gave them toffee bars.

I couldn't give a monkeys if anyone makes fortunes, lives in a stately home and is pals with the rich and famous.

Just have a sense of decency about you and good manners and we'll get on just fine. Dennis does not display those basic human qualities, he just spouts his usual boring bile, he can't help it I suppose.

its an essex nay south eastern trait gentleman !!!

From what I can make of this thread, on the whole oncourse books are very happy with the current day at the track horseracing experience, and on the whole the punters are very unhappy with the current day at the track horseracing experience.

not that happy fawwon but accept the way things are and aren't going to change re the exchanges,just happy to get on with it,certainly not getting any easier but still a great job imo.

ribero a fact that cannot be disguised is surely this, in the past 5 years the exex

one way or another is that the exes for bookies going to the races has doubled and to

make things worse for various reasons the money fielded by bookies has perhaps halved,

over a period of time that must spell disaster for the people betting in the lkeast

desirable of pitches.  Would you agree that what I have posted is true?

yes wee eck,a lot of us are acquiring 2 pitches to take what you used to take in one,we are all having to adapt,i am making cuts like everybody else.

IT DOESNT HELP WHEN THE COMMISSION AGENTS DISPLAY EXCHANGES ON THEIR BROLLYS(U COULDNT WRITE IT)THEN COMPLAIN TAKINGS ARE DOWN.

THEN U HAVE BOOKMAKERS ON HERE TELLING US WHAT A GOOD DEAL WAS DONE ON OUR BEHALF WITH THE RACECOURSES(AGAIN U COULDNT WRITE IT)

So truth what would you have done re the negotiations?

There is value in an annual membership,Mirror punters and Racegoer clubs.Initial outlay is soon recovered.And,compared to football admission,racing is comparatively cheap.However, what really grates are the scams generated by by racecourses to fleece regular customers......1.the single enclosure scam
               2.the after racing entertainment scam
               3.the members out of bounds on premier days scam
               4.the sudden price increase when it looks like it will be a good day scam
Racing is a joy in midweek but marketing for drunks on Saturdays will alienate regular racegoers. The mobile beer carriers selling to passers by at Sandown epitomises dire marketing policy....and anyone who drinks Fosters deserves to be fleeced!

I stopped going because they always had their potable tv on mute.

ribero I know nowt about what has gone on, but re. negotiations with

the racecourses, by the tone of your last post, I get the impression

you were between a rock and a hard place.

wee eck,all i know is the what everyone knows,i am reliably informed the racecourses were determined to get us off and now if i manage my business correctly i have a future for myself,my family and my staff thanks to keith and co but plenty of after timers don't seem too happy,quel surprise!

We all love the exchanges and what a great idea.. but Exchanges have totally destroyed the Game.. and I for one, would love to go back to how it was.. most Jockeys wouldn't agree though... !!

THE RACECOURSES STILL WANT US OFF! WHATS CHANGED? OTHER THAN PAYING MARKETING FEES AND OTHER INCREASES?????????????????????????????????

and again , keith johnson , has worked an absolute blinder in getting another brilliant deal with the betting levy board for racecourse bookmakers.
i don't expect the rank and file will thank him though , typically

big mouth dennis making a right **** out of himself on here as per,not only is he laying 20 30 grand bets,but as most on course books on here struggle to take 30 bets a race ,barry gets all the sweaters,bolters, etc in the book, do one you cockney parasite

Such eloquence ftp ! Bookmakers bring a lot of atmosphere to the scene on course and going acing will be poorer if it all ends up as a crowd of geeks feverishly tapping away into their ipads ! They are entitled to offer the prices they think and we are entitled to seek out value or leave it alone.

but we dont have to listen to there fairytales on here,is the cockney mug now bragging he takes 2 quid off women and mugs betting horses that have bolted,or his he saying its his 20 grand clients are betting mug horses, the mans a romancer, barry dennis, top clients
betfair
badbrookes
billys
joes
etc
etc
or as he describes them proper punters

lets hope the penny drops soon with all the dross picks when they realise how unviable they are,they seem to be the only ones really complaining.over the last few years everybody has had the chance to trade up to a better pick,but alas they chose not to,a lot of us are adapting and the extra cost will/should be retrieved(just the loonies need educating).p.s.TIM HAVE YOU BOUGHT ANY NEW PITCHES LATELY?

ARTFUL,WHEN U HAVE MILLIONAIRES RENTING PITCHES MIDWEEK AND WEEKENDS BECAUSE THEY CANT MAKE IT PAY,TRADING UP DOESNT SEEM TO BE AN OPTION

if they cant make it pay then they should be doing something else.

a follow on from that.
i'm number 12 at newmarket and i sat at home today
i'm number 10 at aintree and i'll watch it on tv from home on sunday.
very selective from now until march.
but good luck to anyone who tries , especially from back lines

Spend the time wisely adge,you could become a carer for Baz...........he is beginning to highlight why he and RFC & BHA need to be part of a cull to save racing.Similar to the badger cull to thwart TB,the difference being the badgers dont know they are infecting cattle and signing their own death certificate.

Mole you have a PM

bookies made their money by laying bets in the ring and when they thought they had taken too much on something they laid some of it off with another ring bookie, but the money stayed in the ring and the betting market was strong.

now bookies seem to be just arbers (apologies to those that aren't) but it looks as if every bet they take now is laid off on here so no book wins lots of money anymore.

they're so scared of losing that they're not winning much, even on good days.
in the good old days there were good days and bad days for on course books, but the good days more than made up for the bad days.
now they don't have good days and bad days - they just have days where they lay all the ring money off on here trying to make a small profit and making sure that they don't lose.

so even on days with great results for the books, they have given most of their profit to the exchanges and seem quite happy to scrape a profit every day rather than take a chance to win big.

I thought the whole idea of making a book was that you weren't supposed to lose on any race.
I know that this theory doesn't always work in practice but it worked for years for on course books.

racecourses are full of mug punters (usually drunk) with lots of money to give away so it just needs a bookie brave enough to stand their bets without hedging on betfair and he'll likely make a nice profit.

Got the site thereisnoway,what next?

Btw looks dodgy so not opening anything,explain please?

Mole just copy and paste the link into your browser window for Gods Sake, there is nothing dodgy about it

Betfair Fanatic already has downloaded the picture, if you want more just shout

dirty barstewards

I am not and do not copy and paste any links given on here hello so maybe you can give a little insight?

The last time I did similar I ended up with a 12 month subscription to Brimarim and an agreement to supply information to Moneytree with a promise of a years free membership to the Blue Oyster Bar.

Outpost - your post suggests that virtually all on-course bookmakers are having every penny back on the exchanges. Whilst there are obviously some that do this, the majority use it as an available tool to hedge when they choose to and I can assure you that good days and bad days still exist.