At what time do connections withdraw Frankel from tomorrows race ?

Incidently another wet day forecast for ascot today

All week i've thought he'd run but now i think it's more likely he won't. Soft wouldn't have been a problem but overnight rain and more forecast for today means it's probably likely it will be heavy on the round course.

They won't take the chance, imo.

I won't go for a time i'll just say he won't run

The more I read the quotes the more I think they might say tomorrow that they are going on next season.

Personally I have always suspected this might be a possibility, for no other reason than that Cecil has trained this horse so differently to the great ones he has had in the past, who you could argue, were campaigned far more agressively (Reference Point running in the Eclipse just weeks after the Derby, Oh So Sharp going for the King George as a three year old filly, etc).

You'd almost think that Cecil has always had an inkling that this season wasn't the final chapter, which is perhaps why they haven't been in a rush to step him up in trip or go to a mile and a half. Again, it just seems very out of character with the way Sir Henry has trained in the past not to have tried Frankel at the distance he's bred to relish, and over which his full brother stays very well.

Now when I read stories about how Frankel has helped the great man cope with his illness, it makes me wonder whther the historically very loyal Sheikh might have decided that keeping Frankel in training would be the right decision on more than one level.

Maybe I'm hopelessly wrong, but if it is going to happen, then Champions Day, when the world is supposed to be celebrating British racing, would certainly be a fitting moment to announce such potentially momentous news...

Yep. Just after they have withdrawn him from the potential slog in the mud. All adds up.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/9618759/Bookies-get-in-a-flutte...

if they do withdraw Frankel then the people going will be very outraged. But if they do withdraw they then have to say that he will race on to sofen the blow of him not racing. If he does race on then I can see him running his last race in the Price of Wales.

why would people be outraged if they withdrew him , if the ground was really bad.

if the ground is that bad call the meeting off and reschedule

what a good post millhouse .

Why call the meeting off when there are other horses who go on the ground.

Light rain this morning, dry all day, three hours heavy rain from about midnight, then clear all day tomorrow according to BBC weather.

they ( team frankel )cud prob do with more rain. if it starts to dry out it will become very sticky on the round track imo. that will be even worse for them

people would be outraged because the build up to this race day has been that it will be Frankel's last race. The heavy part of the track on the round track will be down at swinley. The problem for the conections is that because Frankel is so high profile they are always going to be caught between a rock and a hard place in that the people want to see him win and finish his career unbeaten but then the ground could work against him in that this factor could mean that he will be defeated. So do they let him run on a unknown ground where they don't know how he will act or do they withdraw him which will be a big public decision as he is in the public eyes.

I don't see any real chance of him going on to 5. Too risky when he has been told all along if he keeps winning he will get 200 choice mares to sh@g next year. He'll tell em to p*** off imo. Wouldn't you ?

Not retiring this season, don't be daft.  Covering £100k a time, 120 times a season, that is up to £12M they would miss out on next season alone!

I do agree he might be withdrawn tomorrow though, especially if the ground is sticky heavy.  I live less than 25 miles from Ascot and it is very overcast, no rain though since I got up at 7am.  80% chance of precipitation today and only 20% tomorrow.

what's 12M to a 75 yr old billionaire against seeing another season of the best racehorse he's ever owned?

he'd spend 12 il on a shopping trip round paris

*mil

elise do you think if he fancied a brass nail how much could she expect?

I once knew a Singer\Dancer girl who used to perform in the Palaces in

some of these Middle Eastern Countries, without a word of a lie during

a period of three or four years I bought of her at least a dozed i8ct

diamond encrusted Rolex watches.  The Sheiks used to buy them by the gross

just to give as minor presents, so 12 million to Prince Khalid is a

meaningless amount.

don't know eck, only story i've had first hand was from a ba stewardess who was given a flat, car and unlimited credit card account for being on call when required

different sheik though sorry

There is the argument that Abdullah will want to see as many of Frankel's progeny run as possible. He will probably send most of his own best mares to him and keep a lot. If Frankel goes to stud in 2014 his first crop will be 3-y-os in 2018 by which time the Sheikh will be 81. I'm not an actuary but.......

elise, exactly. Do you not remember when the late Robert Sangster who was worth several hundred

million pounds tried to take these lads on in the sales rings buying horses, he was quickly put

in his place.

salmon on that argument Frankel wouldn't have run as a 4yo, I think it's a bit of clutching at straws hoping for a 5yo campaign with Frankel but you never know, did the Prince regret retiring Dancing Brave and always wondered how he would have done if kept in training up to maturity, he's had over 25 years to mull over that one.

No he had to run as a 4-y-o these days as he HAD been mollycoddled as a 3-y-o compared to DB for one. He's looked better this year as he obviously settled better and stepped up to 10f. Not sure there is much to be gained running him at 5. There's no reason now to expect him to improve and he might go a bit sour/stale.

my guess is that frankel will go to ascot in the morning but wont run ,i think we will see him parade and run in front off the stands so the public get to see him but sadly for me he has ran his last race.

i really hope i am wrong and would dearly love to see him run and win.

Been steadily raining for three hours now (I'm less than 25 miles away).

steady rain in camberley...5 miles away

Ascot Racecourse ‏@AscotInsider
Track Update @BCSeries: Straight Course: Soft. Round Course: Soft, Heavy in places. Following 3mm rain to 4.15pm today for #ChampionsDay


Will be amazed if frankel runs tbh,more rain is forecast tonight

I feel sorry for those who bought their tickets weeks or months ago in the expectation of seeing the great horse win his last race.However,I'd much prefer that he didn't run rather than lose on bad ground.

If this is the last race, then what is there to lose by running..?

^ Ah Millhouse

If this is the last race, then what is there to lose by running..?




everything, nothing to be gained by running

Obviously would love to see him tun
WIn Lose or Draw.
Just hope they dont take him out softened with the pill he will stay in training next year then unfortunatley get "injured" pre season & unable to continue racing & whiizzed off to stud.

if he was taken out is there any other 'viable'races he could run in this season?

How much do we all think the boy is worth at stud unbeaten ??

^ other than breeders cup of course!!
be great to see him go there.....

Why is everyone worred about the him going to stud. The owner has a successful breading opperation and he likes to breed his own horses from his own brood mares it isn't like he needs the money. If Frankel does get withdrawn tomorrow then I hope that they keep it in training next year as he could then race in some of the big races and prove himself at the 10f in races like the price of wales, Eclipse, ect. This will then show that he can be the worlds best miler and the worlds best middle distance horse in the world if he doesn't run tomorrow.

Course its about money even a prince needs cash m8

inm2020
19 Oct 12 17:18

If Frankel does get withdrawn tomorrow then I hope that they keep it in training next year as he could then race in some of the big races and prove himself at the 10f in races like the price of wales, Eclipse, ect.

Did he not prove himself over 10f in the International?

Whether he is retired or not depends entirely on Sir Henry's ability illness-wise to train him for the next 12 months. That's why I'd be very surprised if a decision in the positive will be made in the very short term.

Why would they keep him in training when there are only three races he could win that could enhance his reputation (won't ever go to Breeders Cup)?

Arc - ground, trip, draw, traveling, connections not keen.
King George - trip, quality of opposition.
July Cup - Absolute million to risk it and would derail chances in above 2.

There would be no point in keeping him in training when it is unlikely he would keep any of the above engagements.  Tomorrow will be the last time Frankel is seen on the racecourse, whether a runner or not alas...

Derail chances in the Arc not the July Cup obviously.

PA Stables ‏@PA_Stables
Grimthorpe said: "We will look at it in the morning. We are going to walk it and the intention is to run if we can."

Thanks tt.  You would imagine the Ascot executive would have a word with connections and get them to wait until everyone is through the turnstiles before making the final decision...

Doesnt matter does it?
They have already pocketed the cash run or not.

Bar takings geoff, golden egg for the courses nowadays.

Fair point!

They wont be getting a bean out of me @ those prices even if he runs & hoses up by 10 lengths!!

Treat yourself geoff, once in a lifetime event to celebrate hopefully.  Have a good day.

They have to run him. The alleged best horse of all time can´t run over 1m4f and he can´t run under certain conditions? Well then he simply is not the best of all-time.

I have backed Cirrus Des Aigles and Pastorius both antepost and day of race.  I think CDA will beat Frankel if he runs.
But I also think two decisions have to be made
(1) Ascot put "heavy" in the going description.
(2) Withdraw Frankel.  He has great speed, but this will not be a speed test.  Preserve his record and retire now.
You might say it is my pocket talking.  On this ground I do not fear Frankel.
It would make more sense, if he must have a swansong, to go to the Breeders Cup, or some other fast ground race like the Japan Cup.

Run him! The going will not incovenience the horse at all. Has an action that seems to say he will go on anything. Will pulverise them no matter what. I get psd off with the dithering attitude of some of those connected.

What,like avoiding big races??

Like worrying about the going! Nothing would get near Frankel on ANY going!

Easy for you to say,not so easy for those close to the horse i imagine.

It is easy to say, and should be easy for connections too. Great horses win on any going. They are being either ridiculously over cautious, or just building up the suspense. I have no idea what you meant as regards "avoiding big races" either.

FRANKEL RUNS EVEN FASTER

Well he's finally gone and done it. FRANKEL (48) has just exceeded my theoretical maximum rating of 47 by winning the Juddmonte International in impossibly fast time. He's been threatening to do it all season with three successive ratings of 47. Now an extra two and a half furlongs has helped him show just how good he really is.

The strong early pace clearly helped Frankel a lot at York. It meant he was able to avoid the troubling scenario of having to quicken sharply off a slow early gallop - something he'd surely have trouble doing with his huge stride.

Frankel was awfully impressive in the way he just powered away from his rivals in the closing stages, opening up a gap of seven lengths in the last quarter mile and running the final furlong 0.56 of a second faster than any of them. Yes he was ridden out much more vigorously than he had been previously this season. But his final time and winning margin were sensational.

Now things get a whole lot tougher for Frankel as his two remaining potential targets are fraught with difficulty. If he shoots for the Champion Stakes he'll be faced with the same short homestraight that saw him scramble home in the St James's Palace Stakes. If he gets supplemented for the Arc he will face an enormous field in a very competitive race and most likely a sprint finish up another relatively short homestraight.

I've suggested several times that Frankel probably needs a long homestraight to make full use of his big stride. However he can't be wrapped in cotton wool and protected from unfavourable conditions forever. To fully justify his standing as an all time great he needs to show that he's not simply brilliant on great big tracks with homestraights of half a mile or more but can show the same form on any kind of course. Personally I don't think he can. But I'd love to see him prove me wrong.

Derby,eclipse,King George,Arc.

Personally think it would have been great to see him in some of those races as a 3yr old, and certainly as a 4yr old.

I STILL SAY CIRRUS CAN BEAT FRANKEL

CIRRUS DES AIGLES (43) produced yet another astonishingly wide margin win in mud to take the Prix Dollar by nine lengths on his comeback run when prepping for his big showdown with Frankel.

The reason Cirrus Des Aigles wins by such huge margins when he encounters mud is that for some reason the surface just doesn't slow him down like other horses. He's always able to pack in a couple of 12 second or faster furlongs towards the end of the race which gets his opposition in trouble. He did that here in the quarter mile up to the furlong marker to simply run away from his rivals.

A measure of the pace Cirrus des Aigles is able to show in mud is that he covered the last five furlongs a second faster than the winner of the shorter Prix Daniel Wildenstein. Both races were truly run but Cirrus des Aigles was able to go much faster in the closing stages despite having run almost two furlongs more earlier.

I've been banging on all season about Cirrus des Aigles having a major chance of beating Frankel in the Champion Stakes. Now I'm rather hoping that the ground isn't soft or heavy for that race. If it is and Cirrus Des Aigles wins many will argue it was the mud that beat Frankel. The fact is Cirrus Des Aigles can produce this sort of form on any going. The match between him and Frankel is going to be quite something whatever the ground conditions.

I would have loved to see him take his place in some of those too Budd. I have no doubt in my mind he could have stayed 12 furlongs and still remained unbeaten. Would have certainly won the Eclipse over the ten. That is why I am getting madder by the second at the possible prospect of no Frankel tomorrow!

yeh,i know they did what they thought right for the horse,fair enough,but however much ive enjoyed watching Frankel,i still feel a bit cheated to be honest.

walking the course first thing to decide if it's "safe" or not

Frankel is and always will be a "coulda".  Coulda done this, coulda done that.  Fact is, he really has done sweet **** all.

Of course they won't run him unless the conditions are ideal.  The most overrated horse I have seen, and the most gutless owners.

If he needs a good track, why isn't he running in the 10f Cox Plate worth 10 times what he is running for over there?  Or the Breeders Cup?  The horse is all talk and no walk.  Well, at least the owners are.  If he is really that good, he would be running in those big races, not cuddled up at home.  Fact is, his owners know he isn't as good as the hype, and are protecting him from anything outside of his own bedroom.
Reality is that the last 5 of his races have been a no gain scenario.  Racing against a couple from his own stable, in races worth pennies.  He has proven nothing but G2 7 furlong horses for most of his career, won SFA in prize money, and never raced outside his paddock.

Hopefully he does retire now, because all this rubbish Frankel talk is really old.

Frankel is obviously a darn good horse,and to say hes done sweet **** all is a bit strong,but i do agree that he will go down as a horse that we will never know just how good he was.
Ive said all along that he should have been contesting Arc's,Eclipse's,King Georges's,maybe the Derby and Breeders Cup. These are the races that entitle a horse to have a claim to be one of the best ever,and enables them to be compared to past greats.
Of course its job done as far as connections are concerned,hes been campaigned to remain unbeaten and his breeding career is set up nicely,so in that respect his connections cannot be faulted.

Just think it a big shame that we did not see him in more challenging races.