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Anaglogs Daughter
14 Oct 12 07:25
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Sunday October 14 2012
Ian McClean irishindependent.ie


Surprising facts you didn't know about Tom Segal (aka Pricewise): doesn't have a Betfair account; prefers tipping to betting; doesn't go racing very often; is as likely to be watching his beloved Reading play at home than cheering home his Saturday nap; claims he was rubbish at the jumps until Ruby Walsh came along.

If that's sated your appetite for The Secrets of Pricewise, a new book, then (as they used to say before giving the football results on the news) look away now, but if it has piqued your interest about the man Alistair Down once described as having "lobbed grenades down the front of the bookies' trousers" with monotonous impunity then there is more to follow.

More Clark Kent than Superman, with two kids and a mortgage, Tom Segal is an unlikely, if quintessential, working-class hero. And for many of the working class, he is precisely that. Polite and friendly in person, his raw enthusiasm for the craft of tipping washes out any possibility of personal or professional conceit that might come with what John McCririck describes as being "the only one who moves the market".

Trying to poke under the hood of racing's most successful tipping service proves instructive but far from definitive in its nuts and bolts. For one thing Segal, who started in the role 11 years ago, relies far more on intuition than his predecessor Mel Collier who had (in Tom's words) "a more scientific-type figures-oriented brain". He adds: "If Mel was doing the Cesarewitch, he would spend 10 minutes looking through every horse in the race. I'm not like that at all."

Segal is far more intuitive in his approach and quickly whittles large fields down to five or six horses with plausible chances. He then tries to assess chances based on the filter of which horse is likely to improve.

"I want to find the one that's got progression in it as I'd say 90 per cent of races are won by improvers," he says.

He is a disciple of the David Ashforth remark that the formbook is "useful for predicting what will happen in the past". Segal points out that betting markets are based on the facts of the formbook, ratings and figures and that his 'wild card' approach gives him his edge.

Perhaps the most intriguing aspect of Segal's worldview is the distinction he readily draws between tipping and betting. "I consider myself a much better tipster than a punter. I don't really have many bets -- maybe two a week, maybe not even that. The punting side has never really been that appealing to me. You invest so much of your energy in the tipping anyway so you feel like you get the reward if your horse does well -- without necessarily needing the monetary aspect that goes with it. It sounds silly but the more I bet the worse I tip."

It's wholly ironic that the one man most capable of taking down the bookies' trousers every Saturday is altogether indifferent to betting. "There's a massive difference the way the English think about horse-racing compared to the Irish. Over here, people are into it just purely for the betting. In Ireland, people love the sport. I'm definitely in the Irish camp -- because I love horse racing. I've

been going since I was five (grew up within commentary earshot of Sandown Park), and betting has always been secondary."

His fandom of Irish raiders in the UK under both codes is well-publicised and he is a frequent panellist at particular Irish pre-Cheltenham events.

"There's just a different attitude over there. Ted Walsh put it to me one day that when you're growing up in the UK you want to be David Beckham, but over here you want to be Ruby Walsh. And that sums it up. It's just in the fabric."

Ruby Walsh has more than just a fleeting significance for Segal, something that emerges when the question Flat v Jumps gets discussed. "Deep down I prefer the jumps . . . but I think jumping is much harder to find winners in because of the factors outside your control (ie the obstacles). I was pretty rubbish at the jumps until Ruby came along. He has been the biggest help to my career ever. Jockeyship is the most important ingredient in all races, but especially jump racing."

The hardest part of being a tipster in Segal's view is that you have to reconcile the good runs with the inevitable bad runs. He cites his laid-back temperament as a key to diffusing any judgement-impairing tension.

"With betting, nobody has to know if you've had a shocking bet. With tipping, you have 20 losers and the emails start flooding in; the Twitter accounts start raring up and you need to be able to take the hits. Fortunately, I never get too up-and-down. I'm pretty laid-back and I don't take it too seriously."

And don't expect to see too much of Pricewise on the racecourse. "I go to Cheltenham on Gold Cup day and to the Racing Post Trophy and that's about it."

And with that he's off to talk American football with James Willoughby who lives nearby. In life, as in his column, Tom Segal can't ever be accused of the bleedin' obvious.

- Ian McClean

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Replies: 30
By:
half man half fishcake
When: 14 Oct 12 12:14
Kind of confirms my notion that he drives Ford Focus and lives in a 3 bed semi. Hope he has a private box for Gold Cup day that's the only way a mere mortal might escape the teeming mass of humanity that makes it unbearable for Joe Public.
By:
maxheadroom
When: 14 Oct 12 12:24
utter bs...BS!!!! no betfair acc my asss theres tons of money on his selections before the post is out. yet to meet anyone who wants to be ruby walsh and irish punters are just the same as the english you dont see many of them at the showjumping or horse shows.
By:
warhan
When: 14 Oct 12 12:33
What a load of crap,he doesn't back his own selections because he doesn't really fancy them thats why just picking horses trained by top trainers and ridden by top jockeys usually at the front of the betting.'90% of races are won by improvers'really?then why is the average hcp mark of all horses in training so low?'over here people are into it just purely for the betting.In Ireland people just love the sport'hahaha you got to be kidding,no other racing in the world is influenced as much by gambling as Irish racing and if evyone growing up in Ireland wants to be Ruby Walsh then why do Premier league teams have such a massive following over there,more sh1t from the mouth of Ted Walsh.
By:
Outpost
When: 14 Oct 12 12:36
well it does make some sense in that he always struck me as being fairly intelligent and now he has proved it by saying he doesn't back pricewise selections.
By:
luckyducky
When: 14 Oct 12 12:44
Does he ransack binliners to nibble at baby's nappies?
By:
dod
When: 14 Oct 12 12:46
Much easier to make selections when you are not risking your own money does not show a lot of confidence though.
By:
bazzar
When: 14 Oct 12 12:50
My criticism is that he believes that Ruby Walsh is the best N/H jockey ever.
I would like to have heard TED WALSH'S opinion about his ride on COMMANCHE COURT in the Gold Cup, where he remarked to
McGrath and Francome, that was probably the only chance of winning a Gold Cup.
I suspect that more was said and not all flattering.
By:
Cider
When: 14 Oct 12 13:06
oc he doesn't back them on bf. They get leaked because of the editing process probably.
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 14 Oct 12 13:06
Seems a good life to me - getting paid for your tips - so why risk giving it away by backing them?

Effectively 'winning' regardless of whether the tips win or lose, eh?
By:
xmoneyx
When: 14 Oct 12 13:12
RP /bookies wanted a way to get punters to bet every Saturday

Lets make sure it's the bIgger prices
By:
wee eck
When: 14 Oct 12 13:15
GEORGE I have never ever read pricewise column and have never knowingly

backed one of his selections but I would bet decent money that you would

leave him miles behind in a tipping contest over say 6 months.
By:
CJ
When: 14 Oct 12 13:16
There are a lot of punters here who could easily do that column and achieve similar results. Picking out 'out of line /value' prices across every book isn't that hard, it's getting them that is pretty much impossible.
By:
Outpost
When: 14 Oct 12 13:23
certainly if you were picking out 4 horses in a race every weekend then eventually you would expect a return.
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 14 Oct 12 13:28
Not on yesterday's form, wee eck Cry
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 14 Oct 12 13:33
A slight exaggeraton there, Outpost.

3 at most and at least 2 will be big prices.

A bad day yesterday, but the thread's stats are openly there to be viewed, and the bottom line is currently +300 at BFSP after commission, and around +300 to 1pt EW level stakes.

If you reckon you can do a better job "picking 4 in every race", I'd love to see you try!

So either put up or STFU.
By:
wee eck
When: 14 Oct 12 13:35
George, form will  return, class is permanent.Grin
By:
differentdrum
When: 14 Oct 12 13:36
'Working class hero'? How many hours of actual work does he do? Appears to live the life of Riley.
By:
wee eck
When: 14 Oct 12 13:38
George, your selections are overall 1st class, my only beef would be your accounting is a trifle suspectGrin
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 14 Oct 12 13:44
wee eck, the bookie prices are as quoted on oddschecker at the time of posting.

In fact, if I were Crazy enough to do the thread again next season, I wouldn't bother with the bookie prices, I'd settle the p+l at ISP and BFSP.
By:
wee eck
When: 14 Oct 12 13:47
George that would be the way to go.  Good luck.
By:
stewarts rise
When: 14 Oct 12 14:39
Jockeyship is the most important ingredient in all races, but especially jump racing."
Dam and there was i thinking that it was something to do with the horses ability! Well you live and learn.
By:
Outpost
When: 14 Oct 12 17:09
If you reckon you can do a better job "picking 4 in every race", I'd love to see you try!

So either put up or STFU.
 

You were all coming in your trousers on ayr gold cup day because he gave 3 winners out of 6.
That same day on here I gave 4 winners out of 7 (also had a second and a third and the other one out of a place)
but where your hero gives 2 ante post for a race and then another 2 on the day, I just contented myself with one in each race.

I suspect if I was getting paid by the RP then I would happily just keep picking several big priced horses every week knowing that eventually every so many weeks I would get a winner, and then it wouldn't really matter what price it was as the RP would make up their own prices for my selections anyway.     

but good luck if you not only feel the need to blindly follow a newspaper tipster but desperately need to justify it to everybody else.
By:
Glasgow Brian
When: 14 Oct 12 17:12
You were all coming in your trousers on ayr gold cup day because he gave 3 winners out of 6.


How old are you ?

YOU ABSOLUTE CHILD
CryCry
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 14 Oct 12 17:26
Apologies, Outpost, crosswires I'm afraid.

I often put up 2 or 3 at prices myself on my own thread for the big handicaps (and sometimes a high turnover of selections in a single day) and I thought you were responding to wee eck's post of 13.15 about my notebook thread.
By:
Outpost
When: 14 Oct 12 17:34
OK George B no problem.

Glasgow Brian I wrote all that about tipsters and the only thing you took out of it was an old expression I used.
and you think I'm a child.
By:
Glasgow Brian
When: 14 Oct 12 17:45
and an idiotic one at that .
By:
johnners
When: 14 Oct 12 19:25
I'm amazed at how disrespectful you lot are of a very good tipster.
By:
halcyon days
When: 14 Oct 12 19:58
Interesting that Mel Collier started a private service and it all went pete tong !   Laugh
By:
homefortea
When: 14 Oct 12 21:11
No secret to pricewise (and good luck to him).....

The Racing Post gets the prices from the alleged "Bookmakers" and then good old Tom picks out something that is overpriced...

Usually is an animal from an in-form stable and the trainer has said positive things about it in the paper...oops he has full access 18 hours before the punters.....
By:
sixtwosix
When: 14 Oct 12 21:20
Mention of Commanche Court brings back memories. I backed Commanche Court almost every week from Christmas for the Gold Cup ,got a nice e/w return ....but entering the straight thought I was on for a big return.
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