Is gambling on Horseracing with Bookies finished?

When you place a bookie bet...thats it...win or lose. Trouble with BF for me is 'in running' and 'place laying' I get impulsive and end up doing bets I didnt dream of at the start of the race. I win more by avoiding BF despite the better odds geberally.

Generally..where did the gerbals come from?

Totally agree Desert Pilot.All the firms want now days is either money that they can Arb back on here themselves or FOBT players.

FOBT?

FOBT - Fixed Odds Betting Terminal eg casino machines.

Only way to get bet on is to be a serial loser or someone who gambles and loses on fobt's.

The other issue is that the bookmaking industry now know that there will be no consequences for their actions.

When it comes to the commercial policies of the bookmaking industry, the racing and betting media are corrupt, so there is no one to police the bookmakers...

What do you mean "NOW know" ? Major bookmakers have always done exactly what they like.

Before Betfair the all bet much sweeter, say 15-20% a race so unless you were a pro you could get on. Now they bet to virtually no margin on early prices, thats the problem.

That's not true artie - previous incarnations of the Racing Post were far tougher on the bookmakers, as were the terrestrial broadcast media before racing channels arrived...

That must be before my time. I've only been betting 15 years.

C4 racing once had to apologise on air under the threat of legal action for upsetting one now defunct bookmaker...

Surely better to struggle to get on, however, at least have a CHANCE of making some sort of long term profit, rather than revert to the old days of easier to get on yet have NO CHANCE due to the 10% tax!

Pilot
a) find a high st shop/ get planning permission/ open up as a bookmaker yourself ?

Capt

I would never get a license, its a closed shop.

Captain - Are you mad, he wants to have a few tenner bets on the racing, not invest 200k? I understand when these guys come on and brag about how they want 50k on etc and cant get on, I agree they should do something else. This guy is just saying that he cant get a working man's bet on.

suspicious

easy answer imo

sorry but whats up with backing the horses on here?

Get in the Shops and you will get on

Stan James accuse everyone of arbing when they give you your marching orders.

Yes the average high street bookmaking firm and thier staff are an eyesore, a nuisance and a sad joke but it better than them "having to work the streets"

I don't understand why these guys are so big, there is plenty of laquidity on here so why not just use betfair, if you want to place your bets early then take SP.

I don't follow sports on betfair but from my understanding most prices are better and do not change much pre game so you can just take the price and be happy.

Great idea capt . . . . then watch the big boys crush you.

doughnut

Anyone who uses bookmakers gets what they deserve.

Most of the time they are using your money to shorten up the odds here.

If you don't play slots with your account you're immediately under the spotlight. Shops no different.

Horseracing for the Bookies is no longer that important unless your a compulsive gambler.

.......................................

It seems a bit crass given the news of Neil Armstrong's death, but...

Man lands on moon etc.

Punters should not abandon there Bookmakers ,shops ,oncourse markets.Thet serve a great purpose and the cash transaction with no accounts being kept on the individual much prefered if you give it some thought!

moondan
26 Aug 12 06:50
Joined:
18 Nov 10
| Topic/replies: 591 | Blogger: moondan's blog
Anyone who uses bookmakers gets what they deserve.



yep . . . would love to put a filth ew lucky 15 on here.

To be a success you need both books and betfair. . . Both serve there purpose.

Barney would be lost without the shops?

No_BS     26 Aug 12 02:43 
"I don't understand why these guys are so big, there is plenty of laquidity on here so why not just use betfair, if you want to place your bets early then take SP.

I don't follow sports on betfair but from my understanding most prices are better and do not change much pre game so you can just take the price and be happy".


The greyhound market very weak,average £13,000 - £15,000 being traded,between the resident 30-40 oncourse local punters and bookmakers,if ladbrokes  early prices not available? Hardly any interest? (my greyhound account a loser)

same thing victor chandler.had one good spell and told would never accept a bet from me again

I do still like my bet in a shop nothing like getting the cash in your hand right away and before anyone say's it i do not lose it all again in the next race.

never been afraid of the big boys

Data Protection Act is being broken by bookies swapping client details (Nap)

Told today in local Corals after trying to place an £80 bet that I could only have £25 at SP.

They knew my name (don't know how) and discussed area and previous bets etc, etc.

Corals are by far the worst of all shop bookmakers.

They employ people who couldn't tell the difference between a horse and a giraffe.

All jobsworths.

No restrictions on here, so why come on here and moan about bookmakers.
Day after day the same old rubbish.

Davy Jones
25 Aug 12 19:03

Before Betfair the all bet much sweeter, say 15-20% a race so unless you were a pro you could get on. Now they bet to virtually no margin on early prices, thats the problem.

totally agree Davy

the small/medium everyday punters have never had it so good
and no betting tax

for the larger punters..yes it a problem
since bookies close or retrict a/c's of large winning punters
or even not so large...a few winning £50's does it

yup

you can get as much as you like on in here

I wouldn't worry about their P.R as given the right horse in the right race like Frankel or The Derby winner they will all state they will take upto 10 grand on it, then arb it themselves on the exchanges, its a wonder they don't go for election as they have more spin than a dutch windmill on speed!

Well punters should not be using the bookies because they are only using your money to manipulate the exchanges.
No value whatsoever backing favourites on here now and pretty soon betfair will be doing their own manipulation with fixed odds multies.
The value on here is in grave danger.

"The value on here is in great danger".Rubbish.Plenty of value on here as long as it's a 100% - 102% book.

Davyjones - Before Betfair the all bet much sweeter, say 15-20% a race so unless you were a pro you could get on. Now they bet to virtually no margin on early prices, thats the problem

Sorry I don't see these tight margins bookies the bookies are supposed to be offering. Truth is they are just clueless and gutless.

eg: the big handicap chase at chepstow saturday - best total book at 10am was 133% so each of them was around 150%. BF was hardly any better at around 123% with zero liquidity so in answer the OP yeh the game is dying which is big prob for the likes of me.

The old business model that allowed for at one point nearly 10,000 bookmakers in the UK to be bought/rented, fitted out with un-eco friendly racks of televisions and countless staff that stand around plus utility bills,service bills, just to allow the masses of then much better paid working classes to bet on races that didn't mean the racecourses would get the business IS WELL AND TRULY DEAD and probably met its realistic end around 25-20 years ago before the exchanges or Internet gambling came around.

Also the myth that exchanges or punters need industry markets is a load of rubbish as its the prices on course that are the backbone of sports betting , not the manipulation of the course bookies markets by the industry.

The fact the racing industry AKA the courses are having a hard time is partly due to the economic condition of the nation and the borrowing problems of the world financiers but also lets not forget that went punters go out to gable more now are going into Turf accountants and putting there pounds into machines and openly being diverted away from sports betting so if the levy is down its because of the manipulation of the bookmakers to avoid paying the levy...

Not sure the working classes were much better paid in days gone by, in fact with a multitude of benefits on offer its hard to think they have in reality ever had it so good its more that choice and countless other things like personal phones etc,etc have diverted their money to other things.
Bookies by nature are greedy pigs with about as much soul as Jack The Ripper, who will decieve their grandmothers for a pound and turn a blind eye to the damage done to a society they have to live in yet seek gongs and such  portraying themselves as central planks of fairness in what is little better than daylight deception.

As for Artie saying their is plenty of value on here, yes of course there is but its being shaved to the bone with every passing day as the greed express gathers pace.

The name Stanley James keeps cropping up nearly as many times as the balding chipmunk does on ATR - after having my god knows how many account shut by these gibraltar monkeys - I've had it up to here with him being allowed to pedal his filth to the poor few muppets who are such gambling imbeciles that they don't get SJ accounts shut. I'll be taking direct action and doorstepping the filth bag live on ATR/RUK as soon as I get a half decent opportunity.

Thank God for betfair eh. Nowadays all you need to get a hundred quid at 10/1 early price is

1) Get a degree in computer programming

2) Write a programme that places bets for you via the bf API

3) Call the API functions GetCurrentBets, GetMarketPricesCompressed, GetMarketTradedVolume, GetProfitAndLoss

4) If conditions and offers permit call PlaceBets and CancelBets

5) Repeat 3 & 4 many thousands of times over and on the odd occasion you'll get a couple of quid matched

6) Pray that there's enough activity in the opposite direction (hopefully enough layers have got their programming degree) so that your small bets aren't pushing the odds down and that nobody's betting it in the shops as it will then be reflected back here.

7) Voila. Four hours later you've got a ton at 10/1.

Where would we all be were it not for these city geniuses importing their wunderbar stock market interface to the gambling world?

If you can make a profit at the off prices then yes its 100-102% plus your commission, plus your PC if applicable but at early morning prices overrounds are big, no liquidity...basically a joke site nowadays if you're looking to get a decent whack on.

Boylesp0rts;---Boylesp0rts;------Boylesp0rts;
Had a bet EW yesterday, finished 5th, the above were paying 5 places (Irish Ces 27ran)They then claimed the bet had lost as 5th place didn't apply because they had decided my account wasn't viable (Ibas on the case)

Absolutely scandlous dunter, you have to get paid out on that.

If they've sent you an e-mail in the past saying you are not entitled to special promotions you won't get paid but to it retroactively is a bit off to say the least but that won't stop them.

Dunter been through that with sprouts. In their Ts and Cs state they can remove promotions at anytime without warning.

If that is the case it would not surprise me if you have also lost BOG.

In reality its just the first step in the line that your account will be severely restricted, allowed to bet at SP only for £1

The people that appear to let us all know that 'you can have as much as you like on here' clearly have little concept of the importance of price and value, imo...

basically a joke site nowadays if you're looking to get a decent whack on.

Correct, i've given up on drip feeding..

terrible place to have a bet on now !!
no liquidity early ,if you do get a bet ,terrible rule 4s
there are no BOG, extra places or other promotions ,
commission charges are too high and thats before premium charge (altho i think only the bots pay that )
try dripping money in and someone goes in front !!
not a pleasant place to bet at all

Thanks for the support:
If as they say the account was not viable, why then didn't they just close it?
All my bets were on wide-open Handicaps, what's not viable about that?

Its ruined the game, sadly, there is nowhere to go, either exchange or fixed odds, completly gone.

Boylesp0rts;
I'd have been glad of my marching orders before the bet was ratified then reneged upon.

most of the people complaining about this are blatant arbers and wouldn't know how to have a proper bet.

I recently opened an account with the biggest bookmaker in the country, who takes monster bets. My first bet was a £50 loser. I then wanted a monkey on a 5/4 shot in a group race a week later. No sir you can have £200 @ 5/4 and the rest at 11/10

would you often swing between £50 bets and monkey bets? without arbing i mean...

Spot on, Cpt Christy.

Betfair is still the greatest thing since sliced bread.Plenty of value all over the place.

Agree totally, Captain Christy. But people such as Millhouse thinks we are just mugs "who have no concept of value".
They think they are so clever with their bookmaker bets yet come on here day after day crying that they can't get on.

Oct 14, 2012 -- 10:29PM, sparrow wrote:

No restrictions on here, so why come on here and moan about bookmakers.Day after day the same old rubbish.

Thread full of moaning arbers who probably iron their own underpants. They have conveniently avoided all the questions like this on this thread.

If you are an arber and have been stopped placing large singles with traditional bookmakers, may I suggest the following workaround:

Use your brain

Sparrow, the fact that you are prepared to buy into the bookmaker driven lies that it's only arbers who can't bet any more just illustrates that you yourself never have any trouble persuading bookmakers to take your bets.

I'll leave you to decide why that might be...

millhouse..u are 100% correct

this idea that there are "no restrictions" on here is utter rubbish.
just to state the total bloody obvious one is restricted to what someone else will lay/liquidity.
for ew betting it is not even a viable option.

whats wrong with being an Arber .If you are successful at it,its better than doing your money punting each year.what percentage of punters make it pay in ayear if ever.

Nothing wrong with being an arber, but don't be surprised or come on here crying when you get knocked back by bookies who can see what you are doing.

Absolutely

wasn't criticising arbers, nothing wrong with arbing imo

but for example why not put multiples on instead of singles. Multiples can be converted to singles in calculation of running on money with the non-runner block or, easier still, free bet calculator with your unraced selections shown as void

Captain Christy, you are very wrong to assume that the people who have been disenfranchised are abrbers, I am afraid - though make no mistake, this is absolutely 100% what the bookmaiing industry and their media glove puppets would like you to believe...

millhouse, I have absolutely no time for bookmakers. If you choose to patronise them that is your decision, but I am sick and tired of reading about their restrictions.

Sparrow, I've no interest whatsoever in how entertained you might be...

?

but I am sick and tired of reading about their restrictions...

Just keep running round the shops then

Sparrow, look, when it comes to the commercial policies of the bookmaking industry, the bookmakers and the media are actively  working together to misrepresent, mislead and deceive, in what is little short of institutionalised fraud.

Any comments I might offer are there just to make their lives more difficult. I know that the sound and fury in this echo chamber means not a lot in the grand scheme of things, but if no one ever even tries to point out the truth about this thoroughly disingenuous and cynical industry, it's just going to get worse and worse for punters, imho...

Saw a punter in my local W.H shop last week asking for £400 on a horse @14/1 ..... ( Wasn't tipped up anywhere ) he got offered £25 at the price - anymore at SP ; he pi$$ed himself laughing and left it and they still cut the horse some 30 seconds or so later .... it got beat too ; ha ha ha ha ha

sparrow - you are missing the point totally here, you really aren't one of the sharpest tools in the box are you?

Boylesp0rts
I can understand restrictions up to a point, for instance when you log-in and are informed of them
Getting the the receipt of your bet confirming 5 places being ratified and then reneged upon when the horse finishes 5th.
Ibas on the case (I  wonder)

I don't arb but that doesn't matter. I generally raise my stakes on the high class racing which explains upping my stake 10 fold...

It is a 2 way process, you are under no obligation to place your bet, the bookmaker is under no obligation to take your bet.

Aviboyd, I am not missing your point. People like you just refuse to face the reality of it all. You think you know it all with you sharpest tool comments.

I don't have any online accounts (except here and IG) but when i'm in London (and I am often) I use any high street bookie, although I tend to use WH or Lads in Edgware Rd. I've never had a bet refused or restricted and they don't know me from Adam. I had £15000 on Frankel (yes, very much odds on) via a debit card at WH in Chichester (still have the visa slip) so it's not impossible to get a few bob on.

This idea that only arbers get shut down is really moronic. I first got an account closed (for non-Tote bets) in 1976 by the Tote. I also had an account closed in the late 90s by an offshore bookie (Surrey Racing) and had restrictions placed on bets by two others. Clearly it's much more of a standard practice now but I suspect it's more to with stringent checking of the bottom line than arbing.
When I talked to SJ Trader about why I was being restricted a few years ago, he quoted my profit% (which was news to me and to be fair vastly overrated by overall success).

I, however, do agree with those who say accept it and move on.

Think they know you a lot better than you think Andrew

Closing your account I can accept
Telling you of restrictions you were unaware of After the event (BOYLESP0RTS) I cannot

The problem is that some people have this idea that bookmakers are like a public service or Tesco or something and are obliged to treat you as a normal 'customer'.

Not sure dunter, I vary the shops, although only for convenience reasons (where I happen to be staying). My bets are often on 'shorties' but probably 6-8 weeks apart and different locations, although as stated earlier, if i'm in London it's generally those in Edgware rd (and there's a few of them).

Andrew In Sweden..Are you a comlete k nob...


Using your debit card is a bit of a give away DO YOU NOT THINK...You are obviously a serial loser from a land where serial killers get a slap on the wrist....

Sparrow...similarly you are also a k nob who should never have been allowed to leave the nest.I try to stay off the forum because I just cannot understand where some people come from.Are there still asylums and are people who are in them allowed an internet connection .....

Captain Christy
16 Oct 12 18:51
Joined:  08 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 4,937 | Blogger: Captain Christy's blog
The problem is that some people have this idea that bookmakers are like a public service or Tesco or something and are obliged to treat you as a normal 'customer'.


You should be Court Martialled and reduced to the ranks.Imagine going to the said Tescos and getting to the check out only to be told that you cannot have the wine or lager but you can half a slice of bacon and a prawn........

You really need to get with it !!

homefortea, I used my debit card ONCE, i'm not in the habit of carrying £15,000 in cash.

As for being from Sweden, i'm a Brit ..... and we don't have serial killers here !

Its quite simple, bookmakers will let you have almost what you want 10 mins before a race in a shop becasue they offload liability and make a margin, if you want big bets early then forget it.

you can imagine it, bloke strolls up to the counter, writes out slip backing Frankel to win, taps in debit card number, after careful checking by shop manager on his evil bookmaker secret database they decide he is a mug punter and take huge bet, punter wins but manager gets a pat on back from evil bookie central, they are sure they will soon have the money back.

Mine was about 2 hours before the Sussex stakes

Incorrect CC, i only used it once, WH in Chichester, never been in the shop before, never been back and doubt I ever will unless I watch the sussex next year

They must have taken a thumbprint off your betting slip then

homefortea, If there are still asylums,as you put it. Then I suggest you are heading for one.