old time jockeys ...

I remember being on a plane back from Deauville around 1970 when Duncan Keith and Peter Walwyn were also on it. Some more names from the past who rode for Jim Old in the days when I was an owner. Sandy May rode my first winner as an owner and Clive Candy and Paul Richards also rode. Clive later became assistant trainer. Later Guy Upton rode for a few years as did Tom Grantham.

In 1966 I was working as a student in Battersea and had the following bet, I Say (Coronatioin Cup) ridden by Duncan Keith, trained by Walter Nightingall and a horse called Lampus as I recall trained by Fred Armstrong but don`t remember the jockey.

Two and sixpence win each and a two and sixpence win double. Both won at 10/1 and 100/8 respectively.Couldn`t believe my luck getting what was a months student wages at the time.

Sorry about the aftertiming.

Lampus was trained by Jack Watts and ridden by Brian Taylor. Those 2 winners formed the daily Double, though as it paid £57 9s (to a 10/- stake), you were better off at SP.

Thanks for that I would have never got the trainer and jockey.

Feltfair a millionaire for a few weeks after collecting that bet, its incredible to think how short money was in those days...

No problem LH.

Thanks skip for info on Robert Sidebottom.

Cheers workrider.

Great thread.

Cheers workrider.  It did and I was.  In the same year my old man wanted a bit of company on the bus ( I worked out later ) and he took me to the dogs on a Saturday night.  Unbelievable, just by looking at the dogs on the way by/parade ( and I followed them around almost, I picked the first three winners on looks and appearance.  Pure co-incidence, who the flyck knows, but I know I was hugely disappointed when my old man hadn';t backed them!  Then this noise filled the air and I had no idea what was happening.  He told me later he stood and watched me, not having told me, to see my reaction.  Then six dogs, with multi coloured jackets flashed out of the boxes, heads up and down, round the bend, flashed past me ( and hundreds of others! ) on the spectator rail and the rest is history!  Absolutely hooked.  The pie and bovril and having my old man to myself for ten minutes later on was magic too!

Workrider, when I graduated in 1968 I started my first job at £1400 a year and was living the dream.

More great stories lads thanks, I was engaged at 17 and me and my girlfriend went to bingo in Liberty Hall in Dublin I won the top prize which was the princely sum of £100 in Ireland at the time . The talk was about the engaged couple who won the huge prize . I thought I was a millionaire....

Sep 16, 2020 -- 3:12PM, punchestown wrote:

From my early days at the track,George McGrath,Ray Carroll,Oliver Gray,Paddy Sullivan,Johnny Roe,John Corr,Paul Jarman.RF (Buster) Parnell amongst a lot of others...

I was in primary school and used to write to Christy Roche and Raymond Carroll(the penpal thing was in full swing then). The jockeys used to have their phone numbers and addresses in the phone book then. Still have some of the letters.

When I was about 9 in 1958 , My Dad used to take holidays in Devon and used to take me and my Uncle Fred to Newton Abbott, Devon and Exeter and the now defunct Buckfastleigh.  Now Uncle Fred was a very dour Yorkshireman and never used two words where one was due. 
I think it was at Buckfastleigh one day that Uncle Fred had backed the favourite on the tote in a 3 mile chase. This horse ran away from the field with ease but it wasn't Fred's nature to cheer it on or even shout as it came to the last fence where we were stood, on its own and well in front.
With an enormous noise of breaking branches The horse ploughed through the fence and the jockey was catapulted into the air , arms and legs flailing like a cartoon character as the horse got up and galloped away. After several impressive somersaults the jockey landed near us .
He staggered to his feet , covered in mud and Fred beckoned him over.
This dishevelled , limping soul  looked over to Uncle Fred who calmly said , “ Tha owes me 4 bob. “.

  Well done Brians.
I've got another story like yours workrider but it's kind of at a tangent to the thread really.  Suffice it to say that a greyhound ( mine ) paid for my wedding away back in '79.
Sometimes I look back and wonder what would have happened if it has got beat?
Good old freckles!

Can just picture him Brians .....Another jockey from yesteryear was Johnny Murtagh late 60s 70s could do very low weights and rode some nice winners

Forgive my interjection - workrider - But  ...

"Johnny Murtagh"   - "late 70s 70s" ?

Do you not mean .... John ROE.

No mention of a Murtagh  on Jockeypedia - other than the recent one.

No Onlooker , he was a lightweight long before the present Johnny, think he could do 7.12.

Not old time jockeys, more no longer with us.
2nd Sun in Oct 2012  on the train back to Prague from a great day at Pardubicie sits in a carriage with this deflated unassuming young man turns out to be Treds. One of the best evenings in my life. Sadly missed Kind, good man.

I will have to delve into my old books - workrider - and try to find some info/confirmation.

"7st 12" - was far from being a proper lightweight in the late 60s   - as the bottom weight was still just 7st dead - with apprentices riding at 6st 7 lb. with their claim 

Johnny rode in Ireland I hope that helps...

^ - I think we have taken that as an obvious given    ... as, of course,  did John Roe - other than when he was riding some for Bernard Van Cutsem - from memory

Possibly no connection, but for the 1962 season, a J Murtagh was an apprentice to W (Dick) Hern. His registered weight for the coming season was 5st 10lbs

Johnny Roe was one of the best ever Irish jockeys never to ride regularly in Britain , spent most of his riding life in Ireland , a few short trips over for the odd ride in the Camb etc would have been about his limit...Johnny used to visit the pub were my uncle used to drink and would tell him about his rides , usually a winner on St Patricks day for Connolly would get the flat season up and running, Johnny ended up training in Asia before returning to Ireland were he was to be seen racing most days at the Curragh , sadly he died around a year ago..R.I.P.

I see what you mean Onlooker , tried Googling him not a mention ...

Apart from ptp amateurs, the first jockeys I saw live were Derek Ancil and Bob Turnell among others at what was called the Beaufort meeting at Sherston which was under NH rules and nothing to do with the Didmarton ptp course. Must have been around 1955 at a guess.

Wow sageform, that's a long time going racing...

Sep 19, 2020 -- 1:30PM, workrider wrote:

Johnny Roe was one of the best ever Irish jockeys never to ride regularly in Britain , spent most of his riding life in Ireland , a few short trips over for the odd ride in the Camb etc would have been about his limit...Johnny used to visit the pub were my uncle used to drink and would tell him about his rides , usually a winner on St Patricks day for Connolly would get the flat season up and running, Johnny ended up training in Asia before returning to Ireland were he was to be seen racing most days at the Curragh , sadly he died around a year ago..R.I.P.

My old man always said Johnny spent too much time in the pub...

Johnny seldom put you wrong , him and Connolly were lethal with early 2 yos...

Just spotted Geoff Oldroyd is back training again. Anyone know where he's been for the last 5 years?

One of my favourites as a rider and trainer was Tommy Gosling. As a rider he was latterly with Jeremy Tree. He used to ride Sir Winston's horses Cololonist, Vienna and High Hat.

Geoff Lewis was a cracking jock...

What's David Harrison up to these days?

I may have missed it but I don't think I saw a mention of Frank Morby who passed away last week. an oldie who acted as second jock to Peter Walwyn.

Don't know if anyone has mentioned Ridley Lamb , second in the Grand National, winner of the Scottish and Cheltenham Gold Cup winner on The Thinker. He was an extremely strong rider but got too heavy and retired. Shortly afterwards he drove into the sea at Seahouses Quay , many times over the drink limit , killing himself and fellow jockey Alan Merrigan. A sad ending.

Found it workrider!!!

Well done young man, now the memories will start back for many...

This thread and 'Piggott Stories' are surely the forums all time most entertaining offerings.

Very kind of you to say so Paulbu, I must have a good look over it ...

Martin Pepper. Jumps rider often at Southwell in the 60s. Saw him take a terrific fall once but he got up smiling and I thought about how tough a life it was. I was just a kid but thought his name was so unusual. I often  wonder what happened to him.

Pepper was about in the 70s and 80s Brians not the 60s.

Easy mistake to make though.

Yes you are right Acey. I must have been older than I thought. Says  he was a flat jockey on Jockeypedia but I definitely remember him over jumps at Southwell, which was a jumps only course then. He was the son of a trawlerman from Hull.  Do you know any more ?

I was working in Malton the same time as him i forget who he was working for now it was back in the 70s

I was working in Malton the same time as him i forget who he was working for now it was back in the 70s

I was working for Jock Skilling at the time who never quite made it as a Trainer but was a lovely man.

Cheers Acey.

May 11, 2021 -- 6:08PM, brians wrote:

Don't know if anyone has mentioned Ridley Lamb , second in the Grand National, winner of the Scottish and Cheltenham Gold Cup winner on The Thinker. He was an extremely strong rider but got too heavy and retired. Shortly afterwards he drove into the sea at Seahouses Quay , many times over the drink limit , killing himself and fellow jockey Alan Merrigan. A sad ending.

Steve Charlton the valet and ex Jump jockey was in the car with them, he told me about it over a drink one night in a bar in Essex.
He's from up north but was staying with friends i know.

Very sad indeed RIP...

About twenty years ago, there was a thread on here with the title 'Piggott Stories'. It started off with posts solely on the exploits and 'one-liners' that Lester was reputed to have been associated with, but it later developed into a thread about the nature/ structure of horse racing as it was many years ago and some of the characters involved. The thread received acclamation both in the racing press and a national daily for the quality of the input and enthusiasm shown by the posters. This thread bears many resemblances.

Eric Apter,Clive Eccleston,John Lowe and a good few were light jockeys who were brave as lions round that tight Lanark track…..

Ray Still, Dennis McKay and David East were very brave lightweight jockeys to ride around The Frying Pan at Ally Pally .

The camber went the wrong way at Ally Pally, and if you had a shower before racing on the firm ground, it was like an ice rink

More cracking memories there Acey..

Giving my age away but i rode work with J.Seagrave.

I always rated him...

He was very very good workrider.

Dad was total Northern trainer follower and uncle did accounts for a few , Hide and  Seagrave never got a bad word , nor Edgar Britt - aussie and lived past 100 and initially rode up North .

Johnny Seagrave was my number one jockey and I had a picture of him on my room wall when at Leeds University. Season after season it was  he and Eddie Hide chasing the accolade of '**** of the north' although Hide won more often than not. My first recollection of Seagrave was when he was stable jockey at Pat Rohan's.

ttt  a few more memories from Guardamar would not go amiss

Eric Apter was underrated,Clive Eccleston,John Lowe the ferret,the list is endless all these brave little guys riding for buttons….

Kevin Leason turned miss from mr…

Great to see this post make a ressurection after 14 years since I started it back in the day . Some incredible insights posted on here , brilliant stories from some  posters ..

great to see you are reviving the Old Jockeys thread ,must have been one of the best threads that has been on this Forum,still got one or two stories ,should be interesting.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Dv9c1uFeuqA/TpAWmZZo6wI/AAAAAAAAAX0/0f22JF_fYVg/s1600/1954+-+Lester+Piggott+schooling+a+horse+at+Lambourn.jpg


Lester schooling one over hurdles

One for the Irish contingent on here; apologies if he's already mentioned, there's too many pages to check.

Liam Ward. Champion jockey several times and it may come as a surprise to some that he rode the best horse to come out of Ireland, Nijinsky to more wins than Lester Piggott. He did mess up on Sir Ivor in the Irish Derby, ironically Lester won the race on Ribero.

Liam rode for Vincent O'Brien and Paddy Prendegast, but passed away a few years ago

I remember him well AIS,another contemporary of his was Vincent Rossitor who was usually on the pacemaker in the big ones but had his own occasional moments in the sun buy I don't think he ever won a G1.

Both himself and Liam Ward were at MVOB.

Ward was retained to ride Vincent's horses in Ireland

AFAIK Ward and Rossitor were there at the same time with Ward being the senior rider.

Great to see this revived. Liam Ward I remember being beaten in a photo for the 2,000 gns on a horse called Ionian trained in Ireland but not by MVOB. I can't remember who the trainer was, but I recall the owner was a Mrs Annie Biddle who had a fair bit of success with her horses. I think she was American and a friend of Peter O'Sullivan. Only Lor Life was the winner trained by the great Jeremy Tree. Most probably my memories are a wee bit inaccurate.

Tommy - pretty accurate!!!  1963! Winner was Only For Life (typo?!) Ionian's trainer was T Shaw, who I know nothing about but someone will!

Blackbarn-Yes Shaw I remember now.Thanks.Now I'm thinking Shaw may have been a private trainer for Mrs Biddle. As you say someone will know.

Tommy/Blackbarn,

C&P

The 1963 Ladbroke Epsom Gold Cup was won by Mrs Anne Biddle's homebred, the 3 year old colt, L'Homme Arme, trained by Tommy Shaw. L'Homme Arme won five further races including the Athboy Stakes and the Trigo Stakes. He had finished a close third in the Irish 2000 Guineas prior to his Epsom success. Following his racing career, L'Homme Arme was retired to his owner's Palmerstown Stud in County Kildare.

Mrs Anne Biddle was born Anne Bullitt in Philadelphia, 1924. A noted American socialite she was the daughter of US ambassador William C. Bullitt and American political activist Louise Bryant. Mrs. Biddle was the first lady in Ireland to be allowed a trainers license in 1966. The original Epsom Gold Cup was first contested in 1810. In its formative years, before it was superseded by the Coronation Cup, it was won by such outstanding racehorses as Octavius (Derby), Wings (Oaks) Fisherman, Hampton, Parole, Bend Or (Derby), St. Simon and Bayardo.

Also read https://www.theirishfield.ie/racing/racing-features/looking-back-death-of-gr...

Andrew-Lots of information there thanks.I do remember L'Homme Arme but unaware of the Epsom Gold Cup. Looks like Mrs Biddle had places in both 2.000gns that year. Glad you enjoyed York super course.

I remember her well her stud is now a golf course outside Naas . One of her horses was called Torledo a grey if i remember correctly,guardamar please don't hesitake to recall your stories on this thread I'm sure plenty will be delighted to read about them...

Mrs Biddle has been mentioned a few times above and there's a runner by the same name at Worcester (17.08) later.

Ah! maybe you've discovered a new betfair system there,Andrew

Haven’t posted for a while - 1963 I led up Johns Kent at Pontefract , Lester on top 11/10 .he had just been beaten a neck on it in the dockers derby at Manchester and came to Pontefract especially to ride it, finished second he rode every other winner on the card that day , nearest he got in going through the card .
Alec Russell managed that I think it was at Larnark , I had a tip for his ride in the last after riding 5 winners I was a bit dubious about him going through the card , the tip  of course won I think at 7/2 .
Nice to hear Edgar Britt mentioned very modest nice man I rode a bit of work with him and Eddie Hide .
Eddie was lucky succeeding Britt Teddy Carter rode Bob to win the Ebror for Elsey and ready made replacement for Britt however like many good apprentices he got called up fot National Service .
Lesters deafness ruled him out of national service how that changed racing history .

Portrack- I believe A J Russell went through the card at Bogside. Regarding Piggott nearly going through the card. It was September mid /early seventies he won on five including two for Cecil. One was called Rain In The Face . He won the first on Moccasin for R. Robson. Can't remember the other names. There would likely have been a David Robinson 2yo among them. All from memory of course.

tommywestofLanark
Quite right Tommy my memory probably tricked by Alec riding the last winner at Lanark the previous day.
Used to love taking horses to the Scottish circuit it was like a weeks holiday .

Portrack-Sounds like you worked for Captain Elsey.

19th July 1963 Lester rode 5 winners and second at Pontefract
Pursued 11/10  1st
Royal Tree 5/4  1st
Milburn 100/30 1st
Holly Lane 3/1  1st
Cresside 3/1  1st
Johns Kent  2nd

Can anyone remember a flat jockey (mid-late 70's, I think) who was known for a while as the "Saturday King"?

Due to winning a race umpteen Saturdays on the trot. I'm sure I haven't dreamt this!

Certainly not a big name - keep thinking his surname was either Lucas or Rogers but I could be mistaken.

Tommy westofKanark
Yes Capt Elsey among others I was there when Cantelo won the St Leger 1959
William Hill owned her..
He looked around the yard with his entourage we all got Tenner worth something in those days .
They looked at the horse I was holding and went to the next box Ted King the legendary head was left we me and Hills money man .
Ted a big man used to wear baggy trousers the money man slipped Ted. Parcel of money Tedcouldnt get it into his pocket so having to get into the next box he stuffed it up his jumper.
Ted a great great racing head lad , immense knowledge pity he hadn’t written a book .
Gursillus best horse I rode there (not sure of spelling ) Phil Bulls horse pure class.

Raspberrybottom- Sure that question was asked on here previously. Couldn't help then either. I can recall a Terry Lucas and a Trevor Rogers but can't think of either winning several races on Saturdays.

Shalimah
Well researched a long time ago . in retrospect Lester finished second on Johns Kent beaten a neck in Dockers Derby just a few days before and anything that gets beaten a neck with Lester on top has hard a hard race and probably feeling the effects at Pontefract . He was never the same horse again .

Thanks, Tommy. I'm determined to get to the bottom of it though!

Raspberrybottom
I vaguely remember Duncan Keith doing well on Saturdays for Walter Nightingall not sure if seventies though. Someone on here will know.

Ah Portrack , Dad's favourite was Capt Elsey and he loved Edgar Britt .My uncle did the accounts for a few yorkshire trainers in those days - not that it produced any winners !

Don’t forget Frank Morby …..a solid rider.

Kevin Leason ,turned Master Leason to Miss Leason……

Frank Morby was a particular favourite of mine in the 70s/80s. I messaged him a few years ago and he was an absolute gentleman. He was kind enough to answer questions on old favourites like Be Hopeful, May Hill and Himiwari. He sadly passed away a few years ago.

Second rider for Peter Walwyn….

I seem to remember John Lowe (RIP) as a bit of a Saturday King  for a while with all those low weight winners?

Lato to this excellent conversation, and apologies if already mentioned/discussed, but the Betting People interview with Ian Watkinson is worth a view.


Comes across as a decent chap.

Iron man.

Great to see this thread been given a little more time at the top...

Deserves to be considering the quality riders mentioned tbh…..

Yes I agree. some incredible jockeys been mentioned on this , put most of todays ones to shame...

Yep and no big fancy pay day or plush trips to Dubai….no walking around inspecting the tight Lanark bend demanding sand….