st nicholas abbey

Lets be fair - brigust is a good lad and a proper poster.

However you need to be careful of the form on this thread. Kingy is a total muppet cut from the same cloth as HRE and Money Tree and Acey Deucy is a potless mug and a serial grass. He has won impressively but beaten very little.

HTH

I also read his views on Frankel v Brigadier Gerard - very impressed by that too.

Jul 21, 2012 -- 4:52PM, HipPriest wrote:

Lets be fair - brigust is a good lad and a proper poster.However you need to be careful of the form on this thread. Kingy is a total muppet cut from the same cloth as HRE and Money Tree and Acey Deucy is a potless mug and a serial grass. He has won impressively but beaten very little.HTH

calling me a mug ? LOL

Mug indeed. You are the third biggest mug I have seen on here. A layers benevolent fund.

i have alot of mugs in my house filled up with 50's, is that what you mean ?

well i tell u maz,u have to be philosophical and take yre beating,i known i made the right bet,i just want to make the right bet every time,u known what i mean

Don't they sing 'I'm a Danedream Believer not a Homecoming Queen'? The clues are there.



Very good bri,and well done once again,Excellent selection.

ps,Do you still think SNA doesn't stay?

Hype does a lot I ignore most of the hype but we will see references towards DANEDREAM now, pity because it was negative hype which helped some of us to profit from her two biggest wins.
As a pensioner from a working class background, she has done me proud, not well off as a dishonest banker, but at least my gains ARE HONEST.

Mornin' guys and gals. Thanx for that.I was only pointing out the facts that were there. I didn't know anything, it's just no very often the horse with the best form starts at 10's, and they were all fully exposed.

Mornin' Mag. At risk of sounding a muppet I still think he doesn't, not on softish ground and a stiff track.   He beat what he was expected to beat and I honestly think his jockey's exagerated waiting allowed him to finish better, he did beat him up a bit. Against the same horses at Epsom I think he would nearly win, but I also think the filly would fly round Epsom. I wouldn't be anywhere near so confident there, about him that is. I seriously wish they had saved him for the Juddmonte.

Brigust1, how on earth can you think sna didn't stay, they stuck in
a pacemaker to a race that there was lots of pace already, SNA is a 1mile 6/2mile horse "i also
think the filly would fly around epsom" on a scale of 1 to 10, that comment
rates a 10 for total clueless stupidity, she needs an end to end gallop to
be effective, as in the KG, she won an arc ffs. Would not be able to lie up
around epsom. "SNA for the Juddmonte, you really are clueless.

I think SNA finished exactly where it should have behind two top class horses , ran a good race and wouldnt have been any closer no matter where or when it started run

im not sure what all the fuss is about im sure AOB is happy it was that close to two off the highest class horses around who were flaT OUT

sea moon was the dissapointment imo

Spot on Hello. Re Sea Moon he needed Harbinger type improvement after the Hardwicke which didn`t materialise and confirmed his rating as a G2 horse unless Sir Michael can find an easy G1 opportunity somwhere.

I'm not sure I would agree that SNA wouldn't have been any closer no matter where or when it started its run when you consider the first and second weren't stopping and ran all the way to the line, yet SNA at the 3f pole is around 6-7 lengths down on them both but only 1½L at the line. You would have to say in all probability that had the horse been kept closer then it might well have won.

You can still hold up a horse without having to be plumb last and had this been a 5 runner race and they had run in Indian file then I doubt SNA would have been ridden 6-7L off the pace and even had the 5 being nose to tail then he would only have been 5L off the lead.

As i say things could have been different but if the horse was ridden closer to the pace would it have used more energy and its run have been sustained as long , very hard to say but the fact it has been placed in one off the finest king georges in living memory , and only going down by a length and a half when it was beaten by nathanial 4l last year , you would have to say it was a good performance

As i said we all maybe take a point of view regarding the outcome off our bets and mine was SNA to place , so my memory will be of young joseph trying hard to the wire to claim a tight third

Dunadem was a good example of being up with the pace, he was finished at the two furlong pole. Had he been ridden as normal, dropped out and come with a late run, a la Melbourne Cup, would he have finished a lot closer. Nobody has commented on his performance but as  soon as a horse comes from behind everyone queues up to say more use of the horse should have been made. In my opinion SNA achieved his best possible placing and the ride given achieved that.

Spot on about Dunadem Feltfair,there is no way that horse ran to form,connections were far from happy with the ride that Aussie Duffer gave him.

Except the flaw in that argument is that Dunaden isn't really a Gr1 horse, despite winning a poor one in HK and you may just as well say that was the same reason Brown Panther was beaten, except that wasn't the case either and it was just neither are true Gr1 quality horses. 12f is probably a bit short for both of those horses too at the highest level and had they sat off the pace, they would still have been beaten for speed but just running on at the end. Dunaden ran exactly to form, like a Gr2/3 or top end handicapper running in a Gr1 and was closely tied in with Sea Moon on Hardwicke form and that one has never even won a Gr1.

The winner and 2nd are genuine Gr1 horses, which is why when they were always in the first 5 and only ever about 5-6L behind the pacemaker, they were able to be involved at the finish and despite being all out and SNA making ground on both of them, that initial start they were given was what made the difference.

Sorry you are wrong.

Dunaden is a slow old boat - always seems to get an 'unlucky' passage or be ridden wrongly.

Its a Cup horse - it has no business in European G1's at 12f

Oh and stating the obvious, Dunaden had also won a Gr1 in Australia but the reason I almost overlooked that one is that I still can't get my head around a handicap being a Gr1!

Red Cadeaux has multiple form tied in with Dunaden and I think we all know that honest as that one is, it's not really a Gr1 horse either and would be well beaten in the Arc for example.

yes it was nuts that dunaden was a shorter price than danedream.

still cant work out why people made sna shorter than her too???

she done him last time fair and square.
think this time they tried different tactics as being closer in paris last time saw him go backwards late on.

dont think any tactics would see him beat the best female horse in the world imo

I don't think I'm wrong FELTFAIR about Dunaden not really being a Gr1 quality horse.

It is a Gr1 Horse - i could see it running a great race in the Grade 1 Supreme Novices Hurdle

Harsh................but oh so witty !

Hi guys, muppet is back. Some of you do not understand the SNA stamina bit.

I think that at many racecourses, particularly like Epsom and York, on good or faster going SNA would beat the two that beat him in the KG at those weights. However on a stiff track on softish ground he was beaten because he doesn't have the stamina of the first and second. Most horses will 'stay' 12f but winning is a completely different matter. The horses SNA beat in the KG he was fully entitled to beat albeit not as far as he would beat them on an easier track. He murdered Sea Moon at Churchill Downs but only beat him narrowly in the KG. SNA murdered Red Cadeux at Epsom and RC and Dunaden are almost the same horse yet he didn't beat Dunaden very far in the KG. Neither Sea Moon's nor Dunaden's stamina can be questioned so imo the reason for their peoximity is SNA's suspect stamina on a stiff track and softish ground.

and still it rumbles on piss poor ride stays 12f

and still it rumbles on piss poor ride stays 12f

allday long just read the racing post in running comments kg last year "allowed leaders to go clear 8f out" kg this year "held up well off pace" joseph obrien is not the right jockey for the horse just watch the video of the sheema classic the horse was going on after the line and should have won

Well lots of punters are obviously convinced SNA was an unlucky loser and should have beaten Danedream and Nathaniel, so much so that on here for the Arc they go Danedream 8.6, Nathaniel 9.8 and St Nicholas Abbey 17.5. You make up your own mind.

you missing the point the horse cant win from so far back in a proper group 1 and if obrien thinks it cant get 12f on good to soft why on earth did he run a pacemaker ????????

And you actually think it is me who is missing the point, oh dear. I'm off to bed. G'night.

this brig fella is a bit slow,dont waste your time,he knows nothing about the game,poor kid

i think ive frazzled his brain hes had to go to bed lols

Not about SNA, but there was a more recent pointer to DANDREAM and that
was the FIORENTE race with JOSHUA TREE second and RED CADEAUX third,
danedream had beaten JOSHUA TREE by thirteen lengths last year at BADEN-BADEN.
All of the form ties in with DUNADEN and other form lines.
Another form line is through LUCAS CRANACH, check these out then decide if DUNADEN is a true group 1 horse, or an excellent handicapper, which will never make the transition.

Thought you were never going to post again HORSERACINGEXPERT?

dunaden 9 wins 7 of which were after mid october keep an eye out for this fella come the autumn

To say SNA does not stay 12f us laughable.

I am not saying it would have won on Saturday but if you look at the last 2f it had 12f plus horse written all over it.

I think its a decent price for the Arc IF the ground is decent.

So when SNA beats Sea Moon by 2¼L in the Breeders's Cup he has "murdered" him but when he finishes "only" around 2L ahead of Dunaden in the KG he hasn't beaten him "very far" is the verdict?

I'd also question the use of the word murdered anyway regarding SNA and SM in the Breeders's Cup, as although fairly well on top in the end, it took him a long time and late in the race to get there but again he was doing it against a Gr2 winning horse at best in Sea Moon but Danedream/Nathaniel are Gr1 horses and SNA wasn't able to reel in a better class of opponent when giving them 8L start.

Also the close comparisons between Dunaden and Red Cadeaux again tend to be based mostly on the one time only when they were closely matched in the Melbourne Cup when there was a nose between them. In their other meetings in HK Dunaden won by 1½L and in the Hardwicke there was ¾L despite RC (and Sea Moon) getting first run and Dunaden also not getting a clear run when running into the Godolphin horse and also being hemmed in by RC too. SM was flattered by the distance he was clear of Dunaden due to kicking on while Dunaden was unable to make any move.

It's all relative Hip, and successful punting is all about knowing when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. Don't forget Ajdal ran in the Derby and was fancied to win it. He ended up champion sprinter. All horses 'stay' but it is all relative to the course, going and opposition. I didn't think stamina would be SNA's strong point in KG because of these reasons. I listen to me, I certainly wouldn't listen to quite a few of the above. Some of the good posters on here stand out a mile but the rest, well I'll leave it at that. I just suggest you try to learn from your experiences. Everyone makes mistakes but only idiots make the same mistake time and again.

Long may some of the people on this thread have a funded BF account imo

brigust1
.....I just suggest you try to learn from your experiences. Everyone makes mistakes but only idiots make the same mistake time and again.

Some people might say that is good advice for Joseph O'Brien!

Brigust. If you are of the opinion that stamina is not SNA strong point
you are seriously deluded. The only reason he doesn't race beyond 1m 4f
is because it would seriously devalue him as a stallion. Every time they run
him they employ a pacemaker, because he's a gallopper. They are trying to replace
Montjeu with him. Can you please explain how you think epsom would suit Danedream.
"She would fly round there". Totally clueless.

I personally don't know either way if Danedream would act around Epsom, mainly because she has never tried it but that's the very reason why nobody else knows either.

If you think she wouldn't motley01 then to put your own question back to you, can you explain why or were you also just suggesting nobody knows either way but wanted an explanation from brigust1 of why she would?

Her racing style is obviously suited to staying galloping tracks,
off strong paces, as her winning the two G1s would no doubt lead
you to believe. And as her trainer indicated. The last place you
would send her is Epsom, as it is the total opposite to what she
appears to need. So when you read posts such as brigusts, it's difficult
to conclude he has a clue what he's looking at.

Why is it that this forum gets infested with total morons like Motley? You come on these threads to put forward your views and try to discuss completely valid points with like minded people and you get slaughtered by a completely brainless idiot you wouldn't p i ss on if he was on fire. No wonder most of the decent posters have left because idiots like Motley give this forum a bad name.

so whatever you say is right end of brigust ??????????????

I dont always agree with brigust but he is a decent and interesting poster keen to debate and put his point across without insult , try do the same motley its not hard

I'm a punter J.I make my living at it. I make mistakes like everyone else. I come onto this forum only very occasionally to discuss points of view. I therefore do not expect, or ask for, anyone to start calling me 'clueless' when I put forward a point they disagree with. If they disagree then that's fine I have no problem with that. If they put forward why they disagree then that is fine also, but to call me 'clueless' just because my opinion differs from theirs simply highlights their limited intelligence, imo.

its all about opinions and no one can be right all the time

Oh Dear mr Brigust, have I offended you, I remember bumping into you
on another thread, brigadier Gerard I think, and reading your total diatribe
regarding Frankel v BG and every single poster that took a different view to you. You were
relentless, bordering on needing some form of counseling. My opinion of you was that
you did not have a clue what you were talking about, and I swiftly told you.

I did not call you a "moron or a "brainless idiot" you wouldn't piss on if you were on fire
did I, I merely informed you what you post, on most of the occasions I read your posts, they usually
contradict what appear to be the obvious.

With the opinions you espouse, I very much doubt, you make a living from punting.

As a matter of interest, what mistakes are you admitting to.

Hello:-), which comment to you consider to be an insult. "You are clueless"
or you are "you are a moron, "a brain dead idiot", "who you wouldn't piss
on if you were on fire" can you directly respond please.

brigust v motley on the jeremy kyle show who would like to see that cos i would lmao chill out guys

crayons please

brigust1 24 Jul 12 23:03 Joined: 07 Dec 01 | Topic/replies: 4,038 | Blogger: brigust1's blog
I'm a punter J.I make my living at it


Highly unlikely given some of the utterly clueless comments about horses and race reading you have put forward on this thread.

Can you get broadband in your cardboard box?

There was a time when you could come onto this forum and get some decent information and have a reasonable debate without rancour or insult but slowly it has become infested with the type of poster I would rather not bother my time with. It is insulting and sometimes upsetting when you are abused by someone you don't know, have no way of knowing and who hides behind their anonimity. It shouldn't be necessary to defend yourself on a forum designed to attract right minded people with a love of horse racing and an intention of making money from gambling. The number of threads I have created in 11 years you could count on one hand because that is the way I am. The number of threads I respond to are also very few and only those I have both an interest in and think I can bring something to the table. Sadly those threads are disappearing fast in a mass of silly rubbish. 

So I think it is time I called it a day. The best of luck to you all.

Thank F'ck for that.

I have just done the world a favour.

Just the 4,000 pedantic and depressing posts then.Debate is about accepting the fact that not everyone neccesarily agrees with you.

Bye

Its quite clear who the fool is on this thread is bro an it aint brig

Thanks Judge.

You obviously don't think SNA gets 12f either.

The earth is Flat presumably as well?

"Crayons please" is that your response, Oh dear Hello. Brigust?, the problems with communicating on line
with no visuals or sound, is that a lot of whats sent down line the is lost in interpretation
or the person who is receiving negative comments, interprets it through his paranoia or his
own self imagined image. Then that paranoia, manifests itself by over reaction, that person
then hurls personal insults, of which he has no idea are true or untrue. They will then try to gain credibility
by over stating their position, that is called ego projection.("i do this for a living")

So my reply to your numerous posts that appear to contradict the facts, ie "totally clueless" I was trying
to relate was one of, Jesus how can he say that, and be so convinced, you then proclaim self adulation for
your opinions.

So my interpretation is this is not a spat, or tit for tat, I merely through humorous exasperation, called you
clueless, and you seem to have over reacted sir.

Fcuk me i hope that's not too deep, at this hour of the morning.

Brigust, will you please compare me calling you clueless, and you telling
me I'm a total moron, a brain dead idiot, and someone you would not "piss on"
if they were on fire. On the ricter scale of insults, how do both our comments rate.

You now seem to have thrown all your toys out, and appear to be sulking now sir.

He's gone, He's inverted, and he's taking all his comments with him.
I feel like a right c00nt now.

The SNA debate and ride was a good one , enjoyable .

I personally thought SNA and joseph should be very happy with thier placing in the race , but when it decends to namecalling and malice then whats the point , especially when you have no idea who your shouting at .

if you want to have a barney or let off steam there are plenty threads that cater for that and plenty posters who welcome it aswell , try leave the odd thread for opinion

Im not singling you  out motley i dont know you , you can write with intelligence so im sure even you realise where this all leads ,

good luck with your punting today

Hello, in my view, there was no barney, no malice, or name calling, i pointed out to brigust
his posts were clueless imo. He then went off at the deep end, hurled obscenities, I replied
calmly, he left the forum. Which I did not envisage, or wish to happen.

I hope brigust returns , he loves a good debate and sticks to his corner rigidly , he IS a stubborn chap

I think the further they went on sat the closer SNA was going to get to them but ground and track dictated where the racing position was to be and when the challenge was to start , this would have been taken pre race within the team and i cant say it was wrong given the proximity at the end , was just done by two very high class middle distance horses for toe

Now look what you have done. "Let all the evils that lurk in the mud hatch out" has come to pass and the Forum has lost Brigust.

By the way SNA was ridden to achieve his best possible placing and he did so. More use made of him would have likely seen him out the frame.

It is my belief that SNA is not quite the top class animal that some expect, he is I BELIEVE.
about 7 lbs below the best, I thought that before the ARC and have had no reason to change my mind since.
A lot of horses make hay whilst the sun shines, one running this weekend cannot win group 1
races in Britain but goes to America and beats them on their own midden and still not top class.
The problem though is how does a person decide the difference between classes, all I
know is that I find it easier than most, but it cannot be taught so that the pupil can retain the knowledge in a few short lessons and this forum is NOT the place to give away hard earned
knowledge, or the price goes before I have had a bite.

using hand timing imho he was too far back.

I made it 126-20 from the seven to the line and 59.87 to the three, they then kicked around the three and did around 24-05 to the one and a final furlong of 13-28 when he made ground on them. Dont know if he would have won but a ride like the Breeders Cup turf where he was a lot closer would have seen him in better light

My only bet in the race was a Danedream/SNA rfc

My only bet in the race was DANEDREAM.

So no comment of the mechanics of the race then??

Mechanics of the race? All horses ridden to get best possible placing with the possible exception of Dunadem and Brown Panther who paid the price for being on the pace, the rest finished in the correct order assuming Danedreamer was back to her best and that turned out to be the case. Great race - right result especially if you backed the winner and hard luck to those that backed the second. Sea Moon a liitle disappointing but confimed his G2 class. SNA snatched 3rd from Immortal Verse, if he is ridden closer to the pace the positions would likely have been reversed. Rest of the field just not good enough.

It is my belief that SNA is not quite the top class animal that some expect

I think you'll be eating these words if he takes up his entry in the Juddmonte

Immortal Verse wouldnt have stayed for a start Even if you hold a horse up it hasnt got to be half detached in last place...

Do you think a horse like Brown Panther would have been beaten just 3 or so lengths if he was up with a strong pace??

I dont

Didn't back him and i'm usually the first to defend a jockey but it was a poor ride whether he should of won or not is immaterial imo.

Not sure what the point is re Brown Panther.

I reckon if he was close to a strong pace he would have been out with the washing

4l covering the first 7 at the finish as well makes me think they didnt go breakneck up front

just an opinion

I've no complaints about him dropping the horse out.....i just don't think it was done in a clever way.

The time on g/s ground this year and last year was 4 seconds quicker this year so last year they were crawling or this year the pace was strong.

They crawled last year, Rewildings pacemaker Debussy dropped anchor in front

So 4 seconds is about 30- 40 lengths what was the pace on Saturday. Strong I`d say.

Not that strong, id say it was medium, pacemaker missed the kick as well

Andreas Starke was having his first ride on the course, but
he still had enough nous to shadow the main danger, and he
was caught out just slightly when NAT went for home, eventually
class told and she is VERY classy, some of you will admit it
when she has won her next two races, size in her case really does NOT matter.

SNA  is a very talented Horse and could win a Melbourne Cup  over a mile and six  or an Irish champion  stakes at a mile and two   but Brigust made the enviably  enlightened  point that the Horse does not  get 12f on g/s  against top class Horses  and that is correct he does not

MC is 2m

1m6 = 2m.

YDC

ILWAB.............save your breath...........all as thick as pig shyte.nap

If SNA was just done by two very high class middle distance horses for toe then how does sitting 8L or so off them all the way around help SNA? Surely if other horses are quicker than yours you don't gift them a soft lead that they can then use to quicken away from you.

SNA was quickening and finishing faster than the first two anyway as he was around 6-7L down at the 3f pole and yet only 1½L at the line and since neither of the first two were stopping, you have to surmise from that that SNA was going the faster of the three horses in the final stages of the race and that the horse clearly stays 12f if able to close down genuine Gr1 horses on a stiff-ish track like Ascot with its slight but prolonged uphill gradient after they straighten up.

The biggest indication though of it being a poorly judged ride was that usually a jockey will be pushing the horse to get it into top gear and then use the whip to keep it up to it, yet Joseph O'Brien went to the whip as a first resort in panic to try to get SNA to quicken due to realising he had let the others get away from him and he didn't have time to push first and then use the whip later. The fact O'Brien was given a whip ban seems to support this, as does the jockeys on the first two also receiving whip bans support the fact that their horses weren't stopping and were ridden all the way to the line and yet the supposed non-staying 12f SNA still managed to close them down and was never close than at the finish.

Aiden O'brien said to a reporter just before the off  of thre KG that the ground was dead  ,he sounded pretty downbeat about the prospects for SNA , his pessimism over the prevailing ground was soon mirrored in the bf market and the Horse drifted badly  . The most astute  reading of the  way the race unfolded,  that I  have read points to the fact that SNA did not  pass rivals immediately  in front of him till very late on  and then only after coming under max pressure to do so .

The  MC is run over  2 miles , hard to forget as i backed Red Cadeaux w/p last year when he  was second to Dunedin. M.Rodd came under a lot of Criticism  at the time  for the ride he gave the Horse,  not completely  averse to a bit of Jockey knocking   myself  when I feel they have messed up on a ride,   but in that  case I thought he had performed  with great credit  to get the horse so close  to  the winner  and so it has proved given  Dunaden's clear superiority  in clashes  with Red Cadeaux since   .

Returning to SNA , I think a pragmatic decision   to  run the Horse out the back and aim for a best possible placing  was taken by connections  last Saturday,  it was a sensible  choice imo , but who knows may have got it all wrong, we will all probably  know  by the end of the season or earlier the real merits of the KG  placings

ilikewavingatbuses 25 Jul 12 22:06 Joined: 06 Jun 09 | Topic/replies: 26,907 | Blogger: ilikewavingatbuses's blog
1m6 = 2m



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one could possibly show there face on here again after that

SNA is a G1 horse agreed but not a great G1 horse and was ridden to achieve a best possible placing which he did. Made more use of and I don`t think he would have finished third. It is interesting to note that he won the Coronation Cup in a second slower than Camelot which in my opinion reinforces the fact that is good but not that good. I also agree about his stamina limitations especially on softer ground and would be amazed if there was any thoughts of going to Melbourne, the Breeder`s Cup is far more likely.

Jul 26, 2012 -- 3:15AM, FELTFAIR wrote:

SNA is a G1 horse agreed but not a great G1 horse and was ridden to achieve a best possible placing which he did. Made more use of and I don`t think he would have finished third. It is interesting to note that he won the Coronation Cup in a second slower than Camelot which in my opinion reinforces the fact that is good but not that good. I also agree about his stamina limitations especially on softer ground and would be amazed if there was any thoughts of going to Melbourne, the Breeder`s Cup is far more likely.

what a joker, ridden to achieve best possible placing ? lol

Sorry but your opinion is worthless.

this freds been done to death

SNA is right out of the top drawer an the rest of the season will serve to confirm this IMO betfair chums

Don`t hold your breath.

No Buses this evening ?

ffs,the post mortem is still going on,what is wrong with ye people

1m6 is not 2m

Buses is back and he's got a Carpenters DVD - be real careful....



...............white lace and promises......