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23 Jun 12
17:58
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05 Jan 10
Travel 80 thousand mile an win by 11 lengths in January?? I'd say he would.
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That's what the eejit that trains her done with her tried to run her into the ground the wrong time of the year...They are Horses not (*)machines...(*Excetion is the machine called Frankel)
and another thread, some kids must be lonely on a saturday afternoon
RACINGPOST.COM
This bare form is limited and she won't be troubling Frankel´s position as the world's top-rated horse," analyst Richard Lowther on Black Caviar's Royal Ascot run.
This bare form is limited and she won't be troubling Frankel´s position as the world's top-rated horse," analyst Richard Lowther on Black Caviar's Royal Ascot run.
Poor educee. Your Mare really showed how far behind Australian racing is to European racing. The best in Australia against B-rated sprinters the mouth from down south said. Two French horses stuck right up her arris and the English horse that got left 10 lengths only beaten a couple of lengths then a half hour later an auld handicapper Irish horse carrying loads more weight over the exact same distance does a faster time... 'strewth if that's the best ye have you are way down the pecking order.
educee, when all said and done, you've got to be gutted at the performance, she was pretty much legless late on, the fact is that her reputation as the greatest sprinting horse ever has been completely blown out of the water, yes you can find excuses and maybe even valid ones but she would still have to then come back and re-dress the balance in another race over here, that isn't going to happen.
You can come back and say that frankel needs to race abroad and that may be true, but at the moment frankels reputation remains intact, black caviars isn't anymore.
You can come back and say that frankel needs to race abroad and that may be true, but at the moment frankels reputation remains intact, black caviars isn't anymore.
Frankel was in the same position this time last year when he just held on in the st james palace to zoffany, who proved to be very dissapointing afterwards. Fair enough tactics that day was the excuse but he did make all the day before in the guineas. Black Caviar wasnt visually impressive today and tbh i think shes a bit like moscow flyer beat a goodun the same way hed of beat a badun. she impressed me the way she picked up instantly after being eased.
Give her to a decent trainer and she'd win 44 on the spin. Never mind that mickey mouse racing in Aus take her back to England, France, USA where there is proper racing. Soul got beat 4L by Star Witness, Star Witness gets beat 7L by Black Caviar. Black Caviar should beat Soul at least 10 lengths, Soul finishes about a length behind Black Caviar in 4th today. So on todays run Black Caviar wasn't a well horse. He doesn't know how to look after her. Before the race they were saying she's in the best form she's been in in 2 years, after the race ''Something is not right with her'
Analog's Daughter - what English sprinters have gone over to Australia and given them a drumming. We didn't do so well with Miss Andretti, Takeover Target (who even beat us past his best), Choisir (who wasn't even the best Australian sprinter and he won two Gp 1's in a week - the first by a mile), Magnus was average and still came third in our Gp 1, Starspangled Banner etc.
The Australians shouldn't have over played this filly - but they couldn't help it because to them she was like Zenyatta - and their emotions got in the way of good judgement. I don't think we can arrogantly think our horses are better than theirs - especially as she did win after all even though she was clearly not at her best. And how many of our horses have won 22 in a row?
The Australians shouldn't have over played this filly - but they couldn't help it because to them she was like Zenyatta - and their emotions got in the way of good judgement. I don't think we can arrogantly think our horses are better than theirs - especially as she did win after all even though she was clearly not at her best. And how many of our horses have won 22 in a row?
The one thing she wasn't trained to do nearly caught her out and that is running up a hill she hadn't a clue what was going on and that's why she was stopping so quickly. Get someone that knows how to train to train her she's definitely a couple of lengths better then that but they don't know how to train her properly.
And another thing our trainers and jockeys are the ultimate professionals you'd never see Sir Henry Cecil light up a cigarette on TV for Tom Queally 
(just in case you didn't see Moody and Nolen were been interviewed on At The Races by Bob Cooper he was asking Moody questions and when he was finished Bob then turned to Luke and while Moody was still in picture he took out a cigarette and lit it then walked beside Luke and though you couldn't see but you could see Luke look down and then Moody pass it to him.)
(just in case you didn't see Moody and Nolen were been interviewed on At The Races by Bob Cooper he was asking Moody questions and when he was finished Bob then turned to Luke and while Moody was still in picture he took out a cigarette and lit it then walked beside Luke and though you couldn't see but you could see Luke look down and then Moody pass it to him.)
i find this amazing that every one keeps comparing two horses who dont even run the same distance.
horses arent machines so you cant exspect them to run bang to form every race.
it is possable that a sprinter today beat every possible thing they could stop her with,
traveling ,running to often, training to hard, jockey easing to soon, ground, track, yet she won
like the super star she is.
frankel now he is star miler, there no doubt hes special but how special no one can tell exsactly ,is he the best ever now that is a great question , what we do no so far is hes unbeaten
on going with some give in it,as he has never been tried on quick ground, but he runs pretty fast on softer going ,taking on average the time he done at ascot the rest where so far behind there time was not great, but that could be down to them going to fast a pace which would make frankel all the more special he could quicken of fast early pace.
and if that is the case then he will be able to get a mile and two furlongs easily and possible even improve. but if the first half of the race wasnt as fast as i think it must have been , then he just was a very fast miler at end of race then it would be a worry going further, and even more important a bigger worry if he is the greatest ever, and even the greatest later in season when he goes further on faster going.
times dont lie in any sport long term as i said when workforce won the derby and every one said i was mad when i said hes very good winner of a derby, then he won arc.
the bottom line is that i think frankel is unbeatable at mile, and black cavair is unbeatable at 6 fur if every thing goes right in race for them. so there is always a if before the off.
horses arent machines so you cant exspect them to run bang to form every race.
it is possable that a sprinter today beat every possible thing they could stop her with,
traveling ,running to often, training to hard, jockey easing to soon, ground, track, yet she won
like the super star she is.
frankel now he is star miler, there no doubt hes special but how special no one can tell exsactly ,is he the best ever now that is a great question , what we do no so far is hes unbeaten
on going with some give in it,as he has never been tried on quick ground, but he runs pretty fast on softer going ,taking on average the time he done at ascot the rest where so far behind there time was not great, but that could be down to them going to fast a pace which would make frankel all the more special he could quicken of fast early pace.
and if that is the case then he will be able to get a mile and two furlongs easily and possible even improve. but if the first half of the race wasnt as fast as i think it must have been , then he just was a very fast miler at end of race then it would be a worry going further, and even more important a bigger worry if he is the greatest ever, and even the greatest later in season when he goes further on faster going.
times dont lie in any sport long term as i said when workforce won the derby and every one said i was mad when i said hes very good winner of a derby, then he won arc.
the bottom line is that i think frankel is unbeatable at mile, and black cavair is unbeatable at 6 fur if every thing goes right in race for them. so there is always a if before the off.
I think today finally ended all future episodes of comparisons between these two particular horses.
Black Caviar is Beatable one horse left 10 lengths and just beat. Hope it goes to Aus
Not trying to be rude here but it does seem that so much gets said on here from off the top of people's heads and yet look up things to hopefully check what was the case and all you do is get abuse for it. 
There's a big difference between Frankel making all in the 2000gns where there was effectively no pacemaker and so he could set his own pace from the front as opposed to riding a finish for 4 furlong in the St James's. As regards Black Caviar picking up instantly after being eased, she was only eased at the death and once the jockey panicked he was only able to extend his hands/arms once for one more stride before the line came, so I wouldn't really say that was "picking up" again.
All of Choisir, Miss Andretti and Takeover Target were all well beaten in England too as well as having the odd win and Choisir's wins were by ½L and 1L and was then beaten 1½L.
Frankel won the Greenham and the Guineas on Good to Firm and has others wins on going described by the RP as Soft, Good and Good to Soft so it all comes the same to him. Regardless of whether it was a fast or slow pace in the Queen Anne, Excelebration was the only horse that tried to go with Frankel and then beat the 3rd by less that he usually does and the 3rd and 4th were finishers coming off the pace but got nowhere near Frankel and were just closing in on a beaten horse that once again had its heart and spirit broken.
As for how many of our horses win 22 in a row, whilst that's obviously a great achievement you have to question the overall quality of what she is beating, the fact she is a mare which also on the whole makes it largely irrelevant when she goes to stud and that she's a 5/6YO and how many UK Gr1 level horses stay in training for that long? We've had horses unbeaten throughout their careers before but none would have raced for 4 years or 22 races.
There's a big difference between Frankel making all in the 2000gns where there was effectively no pacemaker and so he could set his own pace from the front as opposed to riding a finish for 4 furlong in the St James's. As regards Black Caviar picking up instantly after being eased, she was only eased at the death and once the jockey panicked he was only able to extend his hands/arms once for one more stride before the line came, so I wouldn't really say that was "picking up" again.
All of Choisir, Miss Andretti and Takeover Target were all well beaten in England too as well as having the odd win and Choisir's wins were by ½L and 1L and was then beaten 1½L.
Frankel won the Greenham and the Guineas on Good to Firm and has others wins on going described by the RP as Soft, Good and Good to Soft so it all comes the same to him. Regardless of whether it was a fast or slow pace in the Queen Anne, Excelebration was the only horse that tried to go with Frankel and then beat the 3rd by less that he usually does and the 3rd and 4th were finishers coming off the pace but got nowhere near Frankel and were just closing in on a beaten horse that once again had its heart and spirit broken.
As for how many of our horses win 22 in a row, whilst that's obviously a great achievement you have to question the overall quality of what she is beating, the fact she is a mare which also on the whole makes it largely irrelevant when she goes to stud and that she's a 5/6YO and how many UK Gr1 level horses stay in training for that long? We've had horses unbeaten throughout their careers before but none would have raced for 4 years or 22 races.
here we go, the australian form guru is telling us she's been beating trees
Educee,I've noticed a few of your post today, and i do sympathise with you with regards to the disappointment you feel in knowing that we over here will have that image of her to go on with and of course we will naturally be banging you over the head with it at every possible opportunity, if she doesn't get the chance to race in the july cup her reputation is shattered over here and worldwide for that matter but it doesn't look like she'll get the chance to show us what she can really do.
we will naturally be banging you over the head with it at every possible opportunity
,meant to put the wink in there, just a little joke, i understand how frustrating it must be, if frankel raced in oz and ran poorly, knowing he would not get another chance would be annoying as hell because you know that there is absolutely nothing you can say to change peoples minds.
,meant to put the wink in there, just a little joke, i understand how frustrating it must be, if frankel raced in oz and ran poorly, knowing he would not get another chance would be annoying as hell because you know that there is absolutely nothing you can say to change peoples minds.
i'm glad you understand, it's not me talking her up, it's just that I know the horses she has put to bed back home are not trees, I hope some of them tackle the world and prove this (mainly Hay List).. because if she retires or only races at home from now, your opinions will never change on her
I'm interested to know why the july cup seems to now be out of the equation, is it because of today's performance or was it ruled out before today, wasn't the plan to run in both races.
With hindsight, when racing over here i do think she'd be better over 5 furlongs, nolen said that he had mis-judged the stiffness of the track and even without him easing down she was out on her feet wasn't she.
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