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22 Jun 12
23:04
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22 Sep 11
I was too young to appreciate Dancing Brave and the Frankel phenomenon goes without saying but is sometimes lost within the legend of Sir Henry Cecil - who is a truly brilliant trainer, so the hype of Black Caviar is such a new refreshing thing that we should embrace her and hope she does what is expected.
I think there is a lot to say about southern hemisphere sprinters being better than ours - sometimes it is true, sometimes it is not, I have enjoyed watching her perform via many links and the interviews and hype about it and I have to say i love it...I really hope she does her stuff and will be bitterly disappointed if she does not, but I will say it has been an amazing breath of fresh air in the horse racing world and i think we should be grateful and hopefully enjoy her romp to victory.
I do not think I have been this excited about a horse ever and I am so happy they have come to have a pop as we may never have seen her if they chose not to, so fair play imo - it may be torn apart that it is a crap group one if she wins etc etc, but that is only because the others have defected...fair play to Freddie for going for it with probably the only real challenger, but we all know that on their day if brought to their peak sprinters can rip form apart and turn it on, but this Black Caviar is awesome and I hope she lives up to the hype tomorrow against what is in front of her.
I watched her races for ages last night on you tube until the wee hours and no matter what happens tomorrow you cannot take away how breath taking her results / sectionals are.
Hope you all have a great Saturday...now where is my pink / black polka dotted shower cap?
I think there is a lot to say about southern hemisphere sprinters being better than ours - sometimes it is true, sometimes it is not, I have enjoyed watching her perform via many links and the interviews and hype about it and I have to say i love it...I really hope she does her stuff and will be bitterly disappointed if she does not, but I will say it has been an amazing breath of fresh air in the horse racing world and i think we should be grateful and hopefully enjoy her romp to victory.
I do not think I have been this excited about a horse ever and I am so happy they have come to have a pop as we may never have seen her if they chose not to, so fair play imo - it may be torn apart that it is a crap group one if she wins etc etc, but that is only because the others have defected...fair play to Freddie for going for it with probably the only real challenger, but we all know that on their day if brought to their peak sprinters can rip form apart and turn it on, but this Black Caviar is awesome and I hope she lives up to the hype tomorrow against what is in front of her.
I watched her races for ages last night on you tube until the wee hours and no matter what happens tomorrow you cannot take away how breath taking her results / sectionals are.
Hope you all have a great Saturday...now where is my pink / black polka dotted shower cap?
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dont think there's any hype involved once it's 21 from 21 or whatever it is now...sometimes greatness transcends hype
true Duncan, but it is amazing to feel like a "Messi" type hype going on...all proved and never forgotten, but we don't see Messi / BC in UK so I feel almost proud to watch her tomorrow - if that makes sense?
Jun 22, 2012 -- 11:09PM, Princes Purple Guitar wrote:
true Duncan, but it is amazing to feel like a "Messi" type hype going on...all proved and never forgotten, but we don't see Messi / BC in UK so I feel almost proud to watch her tomorrow - if that makes sense?
stop havin a wan.k mate its only a horse
I feel sick
FFFF Fetch the bucket GGG Granville
FFFF Fetch the bucket GGG Granville
everyone to their own opinion, but all i am saying is that if i were able to have appreciated being in Dancing Braves year (I was 15 and only loved kicking a football and riding out at weekends) then it would not be such a unique thing for me, but this is new to me and I have not experienced something like this in horse racing before...so no need to be rude.
here here thebus, it does get rather tedious on here when people have to be either nasty and vindictive or keyboard warriors
I was 16 when Dancing Brave was strutting his stuff and have became my addiction to the point of me having £140 on him in the Arc, watched the race with my dad (bless his cotton socks) and after the race calmly told him i had a fiver on (heartbeat racing faster than the Braves).. Now i will admit Frankel is the best i have seen and would probably give Dancing Brave 7lb and beat him, perhaps more. It really is remarkable to say the least.
Black Caviar should she be allowed to stretch out will show us another unique branch of racing. Sprinters however one dimensional they are should be admired and she is easily the best the world has seen in a long time. Her sectional times are unreal.
Black Caviar should she be allowed to stretch out will show us another unique branch of racing. Sprinters however one dimensional they are should be admired and she is easily the best the world has seen in a long time. Her sectional times are unreal.
Having looked at the ATR profile of her and her connections, I would love to see her win and do it in some style, the Aussies as a country have really taken her to their hearts and huge respect is due to her connections for even bringing her over. All the hype that people are complaining about is media driven and nothing to do with her connections. Any true racing fan can only wish her to win.
Angel - I was informed today that Frankel's 3 furlong to 2 furlong time was slower than Dancing braves 2 furlong to 1 furlong time in the Guineas and the Timeform rating is in question!...now that is a phenomenon..also his Derby time in in 2 furlong to 1 furlong was faster than Frankel's on Tuesday..although hand held times..but that is amazing and thus 7lbs would be not necessary according to that. That shocked me - hence why i am gutted i was kicking a football!
I've been looking forward to seeing her run all week.
She's doing one of the most interesting things you get in sport, whether it's equine or human it's always fascinating when a star steps out of their norm into unfamiliar territory.
She's doing one of the most interesting things you get in sport, whether it's equine or human it's always fascinating when a star steps out of their norm into unfamiliar territory.
Could see another star tomorrow - Moonlight Cloud is a decent filly, she could steal the show, dont under estimate her 
she will be facing a lot stiffer opposition then she has ever faced before, with jimmy sytles and kriton factor and maybe the french beast turning up here, but i hope she pulls through for the aussies
She's 1/5 in a Group 1 ffs, winning is the bare minimum. She needs to batter them senseless or I'll be distinctly unimpressed by this so-called Aussie superstaress.
i never under estimate any sprinter as they can all pour it on when ready...having watched her races she is never taken to the whip unless required and wins effortlessly when not under the whip - i doubt we will see a wide margin win maybe 3 lengths by why beat a superstar when not required?...i also agree the french horse is the danger and the ground, but i just want to see her win that is all..i don't care if a nose - which would be slaughtered by all on here but to me it is all about the freshness of her having a go over here and beating them and how a horse of this nature has not happened in my lifetime...Frankel is the best ever in my lifetime but does not have the "wow" factor going on because of Sir Henry Cecil being the best (albeit was incredible in all of the races so not taking that away), so I just love the prospect of her being here in UK and hopefully winning well
If Frankel goes to Breeders and smashes them I think i will be feeling the same leading up to it to be honest...we are very fortunate to have two in the same year in my opinion.
If Frankel goes to Breeders and smashes them I think i will be feeling the same leading up to it to be honest...we are very fortunate to have two in the same year in my opinion.
Are you serious? I mean, I actually want to see her win, but by a nose? She's 1/5. Austalians are the most awful, ill-begotten, race on earth (Hi to my bro in Sydney btw), and you'd be happy for her to win by a nose?
And Frankel doesn't have the "wow" factor?! Hogan's Ghost, Ails (that's for my Oztralian inbred cousins), I'm not sure if I'm the fisherman or being fished?!
And Frankel doesn't have the "wow" factor?! Hogan's Ghost, Ails (that's for my Oztralian inbred cousins), I'm not sure if I'm the fisherman or being fished?!
when i say wow factor kingmambo, i mean taking my breath away...the thing i mean is that if trained by say Henry Candy it would be more of a moonlight rather than Henry Cecil..you know rags to riches story, difficult to explain my perspective.
Sir Henry Cecil has the best buyer in the world and you expect the best from the best trainer / buyer combo...this is what this story is about, a group of people - OK not too bad well off but needed support and going outside their budget and buying a filly they had not much kop about about....i never meant Frankel does not have the "wow" factor as i have stated he is the best...but BC seems to have taken everyone's notice and thus an "unknown" until proven in our land...
We can all argue differences and opinions but my main point was that it is really good for horse racing that she is here, some for, some against, but i always respect everyone's opinions and mine is that i am very thankful she lines up to try to win at Royal Ascot.
Sir Henry Cecil has the best buyer in the world and you expect the best from the best trainer / buyer combo...this is what this story is about, a group of people - OK not too bad well off but needed support and going outside their budget and buying a filly they had not much kop about about....i never meant Frankel does not have the "wow" factor as i have stated he is the best...but BC seems to have taken everyone's notice and thus an "unknown" until proven in our land...
We can all argue differences and opinions but my main point was that it is really good for horse racing that she is here, some for, some against, but i always respect everyone's opinions and mine is that i am very thankful she lines up to try to win at Royal Ascot.
What a gesture by the owners and the trainer to bring her across the world to share her on the stage of one of the great Carnivals in Horse Racing.
It is what brings more people to the world of racing, people who do not normally follow the sport.
Win lose or draw, her legend is on the board.
Longest winning runs by undefeated racehorses
• Kincsem (Hungary) 54 - Born 1876
• Black Caviar (Australia) 21 - 2006
• Peppers Pride (United States) 19 - 2003
• Eclipse (UK) 18 - 1769-1771
• Karayel (Turkey) 18 - 1970
It is a dream horse, a once in 200 year horse. It is not a subjective judgement, her record is a modern day phenomenon. People may decry her record and say she is just beating up the same horses of weak quality....even if that were true....and i don't believe it for a minute....but even it is is......
If it is so easy to rack up wins by selecting easy races....why is she only the 2nd horse in 200 years of racing world wide from perhaps millions of race horses to achieve this feat?
A win is a win.....regardless of price.
A loss and her record still stands.
Enjoy her for what she is.
A champion horse.
It is what brings more people to the world of racing, people who do not normally follow the sport.
Win lose or draw, her legend is on the board.
Longest winning runs by undefeated racehorses
• Kincsem (Hungary) 54 - Born 1876
• Black Caviar (Australia) 21 - 2006
• Peppers Pride (United States) 19 - 2003
• Eclipse (UK) 18 - 1769-1771
• Karayel (Turkey) 18 - 1970
It is a dream horse, a once in 200 year horse. It is not a subjective judgement, her record is a modern day phenomenon. People may decry her record and say she is just beating up the same horses of weak quality....even if that were true....and i don't believe it for a minute....but even it is is......
If it is so easy to rack up wins by selecting easy races....why is she only the 2nd horse in 200 years of racing world wide from perhaps millions of race horses to achieve this feat?
A win is a win.....regardless of price.
A loss and her record still stands.
Enjoy her for what she is.
A champion horse.
has to win half the track just to remain the second best horse in training ...
It must be very difficult to explain mrbus13, that Frankel does not take the breathe away for you. He is the most exciting horse for 25 years. I simply do not understand your Henry Candy analogy. Are you saying you would find his performances more exciting had he been trained by him? Bizarre. I thought it was about the horse.
Muggy Megsy appears to have difficulty spelling and for that reason I shall ignore his comment other than to note he seems to be a complete dolt and therefore must be Oztralian.
Muggy Megsy appears to have difficulty spelling and for that reason I shall ignore his comment other than to note he seems to be a complete dolt and therefore must be Oztralian.
Am I the only one not buying into the hype of this horse? I don't disagree that it is a fantastic horse, but to be talking about it as if as if it's unbeatable is just silly. Moonlight cloud is not too far off this horse. Society Rock is too slow, in my opinion. But one horse who I think is a nonsensical price is The Cheka @ 110. He finished ahead of Society Rock in the last race for one. For 2, he is a lot of consistency over this distance. For 3, his times over 6f are quite close to Black Caviar's recent times.
Black Caviar should win, but its level drops (and it has been dropping slightly) then I think The Cheka could possibly have the run of its life.
Cheka @ 110 w/ a place saver.
Black Caviar should win, but its level drops (and it has been dropping slightly) then I think The Cheka could possibly have the run of its life.
Cheka @ 110 w/ a place saver.
as i say it is all about opinions
it is just nice in my generation to have this experience that is all, no need to knock it.i do think Frankel is the best however if you read my time sectional bits above you may have your doubts as well regards to Dancing brave and sectionals,however he will keep improving i have no doubt about that, what i was saying kingmambo, is that when he wins they focus on the trainer and not so much the horse - you have to agree on that...well at least 50 / 50?
My analogy may not have been the best but simply an example and apologies if you think i am making Frankel anywhere near the best horse in the world, when he is, but Black Caviar has more attention because of her achievements and they are bringing her here and i think it is really good for horse racing.
reveley i wish you good luck with your bet mate, great shout for a place or even win, i love that stable and that cheka is an out and out trier, but i feel not good enough, but as said on their day, any sprinter if tuned up can turn the form around.
it is just nice in my generation to have this experience that is all, no need to knock it.i do think Frankel is the best however if you read my time sectional bits above you may have your doubts as well regards to Dancing brave and sectionals,however he will keep improving i have no doubt about that, what i was saying kingmambo, is that when he wins they focus on the trainer and not so much the horse - you have to agree on that...well at least 50 / 50?
My analogy may not have been the best but simply an example and apologies if you think i am making Frankel anywhere near the best horse in the world, when he is, but Black Caviar has more attention because of her achievements and they are bringing her here and i think it is really good for horse racing.
reveley i wish you good luck with your bet mate, great shout for a place or even win, i love that stable and that cheka is an out and out trier, but i feel not good enough, but as said on their day, any sprinter if tuned up can turn the form around.
mrbus13, I accept your view as you see it. I do not agree they make it all about Sir Henry of Cecil. I think the acclaim is all about the horse as he is exceptional, the likes of which you and me will be lucky to see again.
But, even so, you have to remember that 4 - 5 years ago Cecil was finnish. That the greatest trainer of his generation went pretty much to the bottom and them built himself back up until he had this life-changing horse in the twilight of his career is a story in itself.
What I will agree with you, as I alluded to earlier, is that I do hope this Black Caviar beast pishes up tomorrow. I want to see great horses and I want to see them win. The team behind her have shown tremendous spirit and ambition in bringing her here and wish her and them all the best. After all, she doesn't know she is Oztralian.
But, even so, you have to remember that 4 - 5 years ago Cecil was finnish. That the greatest trainer of his generation went pretty much to the bottom and them built himself back up until he had this life-changing horse in the twilight of his career is a story in itself.
What I will agree with you, as I alluded to earlier, is that I do hope this Black Caviar beast pishes up tomorrow. I want to see great horses and I want to see them win. The team behind her have shown tremendous spirit and ambition in bringing her here and wish her and them all the best. After all, she doesn't know she is Oztralian.
we all know Henry's issues and how he has come away from them and with the likes of Fallon gone he is a better man, the main owner has stood by him through thick and thin and and he has fought his own battles, thank god..the man is a legend and he has been blessed with everyone around him and long may it continue, Frankel is a wonder horse and so is Black Caviar, just two different hemispheres.
I was lucky enough to go to Aus two years ago and watching their passion with regards to racing makes me realize how much they love it, ascot this week shows what a joke UK racing is, get pissed, dress silly and not care about racing...stag do's, hen nights, lads shouting is everything i hate about going to the track nowadays..in Aus they have class and respect all winners and Uk has to turn the clock back and get back in line as we have fallen out of love with racing and we have forgotten what it is all about.
i remember going to the track at newmarket as a kid and simply watching the horses parade was the greatest thing ever now we have yobs and tarts ruining it...this black Caviar could really help UK racing once again..remember the Japanese horse a few years back at longchamp..now that was incredible and worked wonders in France
two things i hope this weekend:
England somehow win
Black Caviar wins
I don't want much do i?
I was lucky enough to go to Aus two years ago and watching their passion with regards to racing makes me realize how much they love it, ascot this week shows what a joke UK racing is, get pissed, dress silly and not care about racing...stag do's, hen nights, lads shouting is everything i hate about going to the track nowadays..in Aus they have class and respect all winners and Uk has to turn the clock back and get back in line as we have fallen out of love with racing and we have forgotten what it is all about.
i remember going to the track at newmarket as a kid and simply watching the horses parade was the greatest thing ever now we have yobs and tarts ruining it...this black Caviar could really help UK racing once again..remember the Japanese horse a few years back at longchamp..now that was incredible and worked wonders in France
two things i hope this weekend:
England somehow win
Black Caviar wins
I don't want much do i?
I was at Longchamp when Deep Impact ran, I don't think I will ever see similar again. That 15 - 20,000 people would travel half way round the world to see a racehorse! An incredible sight. I can still see in my head one Japanese fella, stood up against a pillar, crying as he bashed his rolled up paper against his head after Deep Impact got beat, as I walked out!
Megsy GOLD Black Caviar "She could have won by twenty if the jockey wanted to do a Frankel"
So if Black Caviar stumbles in by three or four she didn't want to do a Frankel, even though she could have won by twenty. Is that what you are saying Mugsy
Is that because Black Caviar didn't want to embarrass Frankel
So if Black Caviar stumbles in by three or four she didn't want to do a Frankel, even though she could have won by twenty. Is that what you are saying Mugsy
Is that because Black Caviar didn't want to embarrass Frankel
anyways..lets hope she wins..love you all for your input on thread..take care all and remember
your health is your wealth!
your health is your wealth!
the cheka lol
admirable beast but she is hardly going to be lacking sleep tonight over the cheka is she?
admirable beast but she is hardly going to be lacking sleep tonight over the cheka is she?
Fashion Fever - she will be facing a lot stiffer opposition then she has ever faced before, with jimmy sytles and kriton factor and maybe the french beast turning up here
Pretty sure Hay List has all those covered. He is a real monster of a sprinter but she has broken him every time they've met...
Pretty sure Hay List has all those covered. He is a real monster of a sprinter but she has broken him every time they've met...
but I take the point that she is facing different opposition today...
None of these have ever met Black Caviar before... which creates uncertainty in itself.
None of these have ever met Black Caviar before... which creates uncertainty in itself.
I ain't saying that The Cheka will win. All I am saying is that it is a reasonably consistent animal who isn't as far off the kind of times that Black Caviar has done over this length in recent outings. Black Caviar should smash them all, but if he doesn't, I think The Cheka will be next up to steal a victory.
By the way, someone must agree with me, because The Cheka has come in from 120 to 80.
Just saying
Just saying
reveley • June 23, 2012 2:24 AM BST
I ain't saying that The Cheka will win. All I am saying is that it is a reasonably consistent animal who isn't as far off the kind of times that Black Caviar has done over this length in recent outings. Black Caviar should smash them all, but if he doesn't, I think The Cheka will be next up to steal a victory.
The fact that you don't know BC is a mare says enough about your study of horses....
I ain't saying that The Cheka will win. All I am saying is that it is a reasonably consistent animal who isn't as far off the kind of times that Black Caviar has done over this length in recent outings. Black Caviar should smash them all, but if he doesn't, I think The Cheka will be next up to steal a victory.
The fact that you don't know BC is a mare says enough about your study of horses....
Fashion Fever - she will be facing a lot stiffer opposition then she has ever faced before, with jimmy sytles
WTF has Jimmy Styles ever won worth talking about in the pantheon of sprinting
WTF has Jimmy Styles ever won worth talking about in the pantheon of sprinting
1 win in a listed race out of last 26 runs
Bet B.C is cacking herself
Bet B.C is cacking herself
Its the course that might beat Black Caviar today plus the rain softened ground though that may dry out somewhat. Whatever happens today Black Caviar should keep away from the July Course at Newmarket, its a really stiff 6f!
Angel - I was informed today that Frankel's 3 furlong to 2 furlong time was slower than Dancing braves 2 furlong to 1 furlong time in the Guineas
thebus, isnt Ascot slightly uphill at that point and Newmarket slightly downhill?
thebus, isnt Ascot slightly uphill at that point and Newmarket slightly downhill?
Just curious, by what margin would all the naysayers need to see BC win by today for them to think all this hype around her is justified?
Horse would need to be in the winners enclosure before the rest crossed the line. imo.
Fashion Fever
22 Jun 12 23:53 Joined: 04 Feb 03 | Topic/replies: 1,145 | Blogger: Fashion Fever's blog
she will be facing a lot stiffer opposition then she has ever faced before, with jimmy sytles and kriton factor and maybe the french beast turning up here, but i hope she pulls through for the aussies
Eh? Jimmy fookin Styles. Off levels HE finished 6 places behind Star Witness in last years race.
Black Cavier gave Star Witness 11lb and beat him by 8 lths unextended two races before.
Cant wait to see this beast. They say she is lbs ahead of Choisir and co so watching what they did this should be interesting viewing.Shame a few of our other sprinters chickened out but I think lighting Cloud could be a danger tho.
This is why I love racing
22 Jun 12 23:53 Joined: 04 Feb 03 | Topic/replies: 1,145 | Blogger: Fashion Fever's blog
she will be facing a lot stiffer opposition then she has ever faced before, with jimmy sytles and kriton factor and maybe the french beast turning up here, but i hope she pulls through for the aussies
Eh? Jimmy fookin Styles. Off levels HE finished 6 places behind Star Witness in last years race.
Black Cavier gave Star Witness 11lb and beat him by 8 lths unextended two races before.
Cant wait to see this beast. They say she is lbs ahead of Choisir and co so watching what they did this should be interesting viewing.Shame a few of our other sprinters chickened out but I think lighting Cloud could be a danger tho.
This is why I love racing
"the thing i mean is that if trained by say Henry Candy it would be more of a moonlight rather than Henry Cecil"
I know where you're coming from mate, the amount of times I've seen a Messi hat trick and thought "that'd be impressive if only it were Steve Bruce barking out instructions from the touchline." Can't enjoy the player at all
I know where you're coming from mate, the amount of times I've seen a Messi hat trick and thought "that'd be impressive if only it were Steve Bruce barking out instructions from the touchline." Can't enjoy the player at all
I think what bus was trying to say (probably while holding a glass of something) was that the way he feels slightly different towards Frankel when compared to BC are the connections of the horse.
Frankel's connections have had major successes before with top horses and have unlimited amounts of money to keep throwing at racing to ensure they always get the best.
BC's connections had to group their money together (and pay slightly more than intended) to get a horse that they hoped was going to be good enough to give them some fun.
I know for a fact that thebus13 likes Frankel but he just thinks that BC is more of a racing fairy tale giving hope to small owners.
Frankel's connections have had major successes before with top horses and have unlimited amounts of money to keep throwing at racing to ensure they always get the best.
BC's connections had to group their money together (and pay slightly more than intended) to get a horse that they hoped was going to be good enough to give them some fun.
I know for a fact that thebus13 likes Frankel but he just thinks that BC is more of a racing fairy tale giving hope to small owners.
The Black Caviar owner story is a bit of a hype. They're wealthy people, even if they don't have the money of big stables.
In a lot australia a lot of the good horses are owned by random people, it's not like over here where there's just a couple of big stables and whenever a horse from somewhere else does well people are confused. In Australia all top trainers train horses from a variety of owners. Peter snowden (darley connected to godolphin) might be different, not sure if only trains those horses.
In a lot australia a lot of the good horses are owned by random people, it's not like over here where there's just a couple of big stables and whenever a horse from somewhere else does well people are confused. In Australia all top trainers train horses from a variety of owners. Peter snowden (darley connected to godolphin) might be different, not sure if only trains those horses.
kingG111111 22 Jun 12 23:11
Jun 22, 2012 -- 11:09PM, thebus13 wrote:
true Duncan, but it is amazing to feel like a "Messi" type hype going on...all proved and never forgotten, but we don't see Messi / BC in UK so I feel almost proud to watch her tomorrow - if that makes sense?
stop havin a wan.k mate its only a horse
Kingy
Jun 22, 2012 -- 11:09PM, thebus13 wrote:
true Duncan, but it is amazing to feel like a "Messi" type hype going on...all proved and never forgotten, but we don't see Messi / BC in UK so I feel almost proud to watch her tomorrow - if that makes sense?
stop havin a wan.k mate its only a horse
Kingy
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