TOTE BETTING .A QUESTION . EXPERTS AND INTELLIGENT PEOPLE PLEASE ANSWER.NO STUPID REPLIES THANKS .

THE TOTE ACCORDING TO FRED . HOW DO THEY WORK OUT DIVIDENDS .It beggars belief how the advertised odds change in the last minute . at Beverley last Wednesday I backed winner on tote in the minute before the off . It was showing at over 6/1 yet it paid 3.70 .

Do all the off course bets get put into the pool around the time of the off ?

take out their percentage and divide the rest by the number of winning units. no bets are put into pool as they are placed

everybody sees what you see jt thats why there is no value.

why did you knee that nice barca chappie

cos he was a tw..

when do off course bets get added to on course bets. why do they show current odds when they bear no relation . how much  % do tote take out . ?????d

i have created a couple of threads on this ... they have got noticeably worse since FRED took it over.

Some of them have been absouloutely shocking - just look at the DERBY place returns yesterday.

I have a conspiracy theory that he may be betting on the pool in running and laying of on an exchange - this would force the win dividends right down.

As only he has access to the pool after the off.

could you please show your threads MINARDI .

How can he bet on the pool in running iyo ?

i SUSPECT SOMETHING IS GOING ON HERE .

I think the off course bets go into the pool after the off

Would you like to produce some evidence of that,John Terry ?

Flying bolt - he owns the pool he can do what he wants with it.

The Tote betting is now bizarre.

On Thursday night the Hannon winner was showing 13/2 win dividend about 10 minutes before the off when it was 2/1 in the ring; wins the race and returns at EVS on the tote!

All the returns were pants and it won't be long before it is all over imo.

AH RIGHT.



When wxactly was an in running option introduced iyo ?

exactly

I have no evidence whatsoever . All I am saying is that the odds displayed bear no relation to the odds paid out . One explanation would be this . it may be this is an agreed practice . If this is so there is no point in even looking at the odds whilst at a racecourse as the money bet  at Beverley etc will be a very small fraction .

Wasn't this late tote money McCriricks big (only)success as a journo??

a winner at lingfield on friday paid 2.10 and 2.60 for a place .. BIZARRE .

Technology today is such that it should be no problem to show the exact number of tickets on each runner within seconds of the off. Either they're still in spectrum zx mode or they're at it. The running on tickets for the scoop, jackpot and placepot pools often don't reflect the numbers shown from the previous leg. I wrote to the eating commission about it but they didn't want to know after George Primarolo bamboozled them with talk of gateways (presumably spectrum zx speak). All they said was there was no onus on them to show the numbers. The Guardian did an article on it but nobody really gives a fk if punters are being ripped off.

I will stay clear until BALDY or somebody else sorts this out .

I have bought my two threads up to the top ...

Flyingbolt there isn't an in running option on the tote but there could be for the owner of the pool so in other words he is just skimming from it by placing his own money on horses.

so for example a 7-1 shot would pay say 8.2 at the off ... but it goes clear and is going to win - the price here goes to 1.5 - he places a £500 quid on the winner reducing the dividend down to 5.2 say but lays it off at 1.5 in running.

He could set up a bot to skim say 10% to 20% of the pool each race at 6000 or so races a year that could easily run to £5m profit.

JT - I read many years ago that a dividend wouldn't alter by much if the stake was less than 2% of the total pool.
I don't know how precise that is, or if it operates the same way nowadays.

betting on the tote just seems totally bizzare to me,if you went up to any other type of bookie and asked how much you would get back if you had a tenner on the favorite and he said i will tell you after the race,unless your a complete mug yourd tell him to go fook himself

no different than betfair really except they take a bigger percentage , bristol dogs used to be the same  twenty years ago 3/1 fav naned donald in trap six  paying 15 just before the off returning 9.00.

barnster , why would you tell him  to fook himself,seeing as he wont know the fav price till the sp is returned

check out exactas vs csf , f/c's  are mug bets, but ive noticed since baldy took control, exactas seem to in line with the rip csf now, this wasnt the case before baldy started skimming off

If he is manipulating the pools is there anyway this can be verified and are there only rules / laws against it.

does anyone actually bet at tote odds anymore.

why would you risk you hard earned,when having no idear what the starting price is.

looks a even bigger risk with our fred at the helm.

Betfraud The Bogus King runs the Tote.....

All winners banned on his own site so why would anyone have a bet on the Tote ?

The man is a rancid apology for a Bookmaker and so I would not trust him to run any pool betting....

Only the British government would sell off the tote then menace companies with threats of new stealth taxes when nearly every other tote systems run in other countries does so well and underlines that this government is Blinkered when it comes to aiding Businesses

Why not a Rubbish politician tax as this would bring in billions in the UK alone

Went into a Betfred shop today for the first time to collect winnings for yesterdays Epsom placepot. The old crow behind the counter just plonked the cash down and didn't say a word. She was also in the shop by herself. Surely a woman should not be working in a shop on her own.

candiru •  June 3, 2012 8:49 PM BST
check out exactas vs csf , f/c's  are mug bets, but ive noticed since baldy took control, exactas seem to in line with the rip csf now, this wasnt the case before baldy started skimmingoff

Spot on Candiru the exacta now officially stinks and it amazes me how foolish the main bookmakers have been this last couple of decades as they use office whimps with spreadsheets
to tell them that if they do x and y to markets, prices and customers they can make more
ROI%

WHAT THEY FAIL TO SEE IS THAT THE MORE MEASURES THEY APPLY TO RUIN THE GAME FOR PUNTERS THEN THE LESS PUNTERS WILL SPEND WITH THEM AND NOW THAT EXCHANGES HAVE ARRIVED THEY HAVE NOW HIT MELTDOWN AND STILL SET A COURSE FOR SELF DESTRUCTION AS THEY HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER PUNTERS NOW EXCEPT PATHETIC CASINO MACHINES THAT ARE NOW GOING TO BE SUPER TAXED....

Many will remember the famous quote that "pop will eat itself" and "bookmakers will disappear up there own orifices" in the not to distant future and good ridance to them...

Went into a Betfred shop today for the first time to collect winnings for yesterdays Epsom placepot. The old crow behind the counter just plonked the cash down and didn't say a word. She was also in the shop by herself. Surely a woman should not be working in a shop on her own.

happens all the time with the magic sign.

carrot, what im saying is the bookie your asking the price of the fav for isnt going to take any notice of the official sp, hes just going to make his own price up on the winner when the race is finnished,just like the tote do

I dont mean to be insulting but surely intelligent people dont bet on something where the reward is unknown and where there is ample evidence that its not uncommon for a 6-1 shot to pay as little as 1-10 a place.

I could never see why anyone would bet with the tote or even want to own the tote.

I was astonished when when fred bought it but maybe I am missing something, how the hell do you sell a product with so many questions to answer.?

From the total amount staked, each pool is subject to a deduction as follows:
totewin deduction
13.5% net pool = 86.5% of stakes.
toteplace deduction
18% net pool = 82% of stakes.
toteexacta deduction
24% net pool = 76% of stakes.
totetrifecta deduction
29% net pool = 71% of stakes.
totejackpot deduction
29% net pool = 71% of stakes.
toteplacepot deduction
27% net pool = 73% of stakes.
totequadpot deduction
26% net pool = 74% of stakes.
totescoop6 deduction
30% from each pool net pool = 70% of stakes.

No wonder returns are so poor, The exacta is the same as a 131% book, in theory.And the place 122%.