Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
31 May 12
21:35
Joined:
Date Joined:
05 Apr 02
Snow Knight (1974) ridden by the late, great Brian Taylor and trained by Peter Nelson who led almost throughout to win at 50/1. 
Plugged the school to bet him and stuck 1/- on him and same on Imperial Family (2nd), plus a tanner R/F/C Was a magnificent stamp of a horse and highly under-rated in UK. Sent to the USA later and American horse of the year in 1975.
Plugged the school to bet him and stuck 1/- on him and same on Imperial Family (2nd), plus a tanner R/F/C Was a magnificent stamp of a horse and highly under-rated in UK. Sent to the USA later and American horse of the year in 1975.
Show More
My two favourites are consecutive years....
Sea Bird II for obvious reasons, BUT Charlottown was my first winning bet on the Derby aged 14, and trained just down the road from me!
Sea Bird II for obvious reasons, BUT Charlottown was my first winning bet on the Derby aged 14, and trained just down the road from me!
To aftertime in spades...I backed At Talaq at 250/1 in the '84 Derby, though in those days there wasn't betting without the odds-on fav for E/W purposes 
Plenty of Derby also rans end up over hurdles and most dont amount to much so H is right,most renewals throw up few future top class winners,whatever the code.
GG, G Foster, i think he only had two jobs in Lambourn, Major Nelson and Barry Hills and was with BH for years and now with Charlie, and you hardly say that was his 3rd.
Foetus - group, grade, a few hurdles, what's the difference!
Pauli - Troy's Derby was really the first I took an interest in, and he helped cement my affair with the game 
Remember the bog-roll?
Remember the bog-roll?
GT, Sea Pigeon, was an also ran, J Tree. was there for Troy's derby, a scorching humid day.
based on actual performance on the day i thought nijinsky was brilliant.
galileo also travelled like a superstar that day!
galileo also travelled like a superstar that day!
Pauli - I think you forgot the Champion Stakes winner in that stellar line up 
Northern Baby
Northern Baby
I know all about Sea Pigeon sooty,my 2nd fav hurdler ever.
The 79 Derby was one of the better events, winners of the Eclipse, Champion Stakes and as a 4yo Ela Mana Mou were all left in Troys wake
golden fleece 82
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z9sgFZKIO0
macheen!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z9sgFZKIO0
macheen!
I know the form wasn't brilliant but for excitement Kris Kin really did set the pulse racing...just wish I'd backed him as I did at Chester, at an unbelievable 20/1
Richard Baerlins headline in the Paper that morning
"A Golden Way to fleece the Bookies"
"A Golden Way to fleece the Bookies"
just cruised by them up the straight, some horse.
Yes Foetus you are correct Northern Baby was in the field and I do remember the toilet roll.
H........I backed Kris Kin by default at 12/1........my original pick was a late non runner.........cant even remember what its name was.
Imo only been really decent Derby winners since Lammtarra,Gallileo,STS and Workforce...............will not be one in their class this year for sure.
Imo only been really decent Derby winners since Lammtarra,Gallileo,STS and Workforce...............will not be one in their class this year for sure.
lammtara was a fine horse, i remember watching him.
better horse than dubai mill for me.
better horse than dubai mill for me.
GT - hopefully you'll be wrong and we'll see a real good horse win (probably Camelot)
Fergal Lynch was on Kris Kin that day, and got unseated after the winning line...phew!
OK then GT...I'll bite...just who is your favourite hurdler?
Fergal Lynch was on Kris Kin that day, and got unseated after the winning line...phew!
OK then GT...I'll bite...just who is your favourite hurdler?
ILWAB - you remember Lammtarra?
You must have been a mere foetus in those days
You must have been a mere foetus in those days
funny enough foetus i didnt actually follow the sport then but still used to watch it with my grandad every sat as i had my dinner in his every sat and it would invariably be on, he'd have his paper open on the table and betting slips all over the place.
still puts on the odd yankee god bless him.
GT - I've just re-read your post and I can't believe you don't think High Chaparral or Sinndar were (at the very least) on a par with Workforce! 
I think High Chaparral was a terrific horse and as far as 'paceless' stayers go, he was a real top-notcher!
I think High Chaparral was a terrific horse and as far as 'paceless' stayers go, he was a real top-notcher!
PS - you have to give them their due...Motivator, Authorized & New Approach looked well above average when they won at Epsom.
ran a blinder in the states!! delighted he won! what a finish that was and im not in to the breeders cup at all tbh!
H............did Lynch disguise himself as Fellon on Kris KIn? Sneaky bastards.
Fav hurdler...............was NIGHT NURSE........but a close call with the Pigeon.
Fav hurdler...............was NIGHT NURSE........but a close call with the Pigeon.
backed STS for the guineas but switched allegiance to F&G for the derby, what a brilliant tussle it was, even though I lost money I was delighted for Oxx, Kinane and the horse.
backed Pour Moi last year and will never forget that either, looked like Barza had buggered off home when they'd got round Tattenham corner, and i went from glum, to optimistic, to jumping around like an idiot when he flew past the half dozen bunched up in front of him and was up celebrating like Barza was. The beer was flowing on an open tap that night.
backed Pour Moi last year and will never forget that either, looked like Barza had buggered off home when they'd got round Tattenham corner, and i went from glum, to optimistic, to jumping around like an idiot when he flew past the half dozen bunched up in front of him and was up celebrating like Barza was. The beer was flowing on an open tap that night.
ILWAB - do you know that High Chaparral was only ever beaten on RH tracks?
Forgetting his debut...that means he was only beaten in two Arc's, where he undoubtedly under-performed.
As I'm sure many on here already know...I don't take too much of a liking to Coolmore horses, but he was an exception to the rule, as he was such a trier - a really likeable colt with a smashing attitude and one that's easily forgotten (though no Dancing Brave or Sea The Stars) when discussing quality performers.
Forgetting his debut...that means he was only beaten in two Arc's, where he undoubtedly under-performed.
As I'm sure many on here already know...I don't take too much of a liking to Coolmore horses, but he was an exception to the rule, as he was such a trier - a really likeable colt with a smashing attitude and one that's easily forgotten (though no Dancing Brave or Sea The Stars) when discussing quality performers.
GT-Mole, an Easterby conection. well your not MB and you not JJ or JF or PB, could be PE,
I never got along with High Chapparral, the only time I ever backed him was short in Dalakhani's Arc and I backed a second against him probably seven or eight times. Hawk Wing and a couple of others I could take but I had two heartbreaking experiences with Falbrav.
My favourite Derby winner is a toss up between Golden Fleece and Slip Anchor.
I loved ELG but in Secreto Christy Roche was riding a horse which got the trip versus one (if not the)greatest ever guineas winner (b.F) who ran out of gas after looking like he was pulling the proverbial cart a furlong and half from home.
The Senor was a northern dancer out of a buckpasser mare and I don't think the VOB team thought for a second that he wouldn't stay at Epsom.
Re derby strength in depth, the racing world from 1960 until the mid-90s was very different from today.
Very few derby winners were trained past the classic season with the older generation largely represented by a troop of great late season peaking mares eg Dahlia, Triptych, Allez France, April Run, All Along.
There were far fewer group races to contest and the season was much shorter with very few top English and Irish trainers sending their best to pick up early or late season group prizes overseas.
The KG in July was, until the mid 90s, Europe's premier middle distance all age race and, more often than not, the Epsom derby winner would win the KG and retire or he would be over the top by the end of September and the invariable Paris mudbath aka the Arc.
There were certainly more great and good Derby winners than bad winners from 1960 through to 1995 but I do think that the race has fallen very far from grace since the mid-90s which is a great pity.
I loved ELG but in Secreto Christy Roche was riding a horse which got the trip versus one (if not the)greatest ever guineas winner (b.F) who ran out of gas after looking like he was pulling the proverbial cart a furlong and half from home.
The Senor was a northern dancer out of a buckpasser mare and I don't think the VOB team thought for a second that he wouldn't stay at Epsom.
Re derby strength in depth, the racing world from 1960 until the mid-90s was very different from today.
Very few derby winners were trained past the classic season with the older generation largely represented by a troop of great late season peaking mares eg Dahlia, Triptych, Allez France, April Run, All Along.
There were far fewer group races to contest and the season was much shorter with very few top English and Irish trainers sending their best to pick up early or late season group prizes overseas.
The KG in July was, until the mid 90s, Europe's premier middle distance all age race and, more often than not, the Epsom derby winner would win the KG and retire or he would be over the top by the end of September and the invariable Paris mudbath aka the Arc.
There were certainly more great and good Derby winners than bad winners from 1960 through to 1995 but I do think that the race has fallen very far from grace since the mid-90s which is a great pity.
BM - High Chaparral always seemed to outpoint Falbrav but I always felt in my bones that Falbrav was a slightly better horse.
Nevertheless, I loved both of them and as I mentioned earlier, these are the sort of horses that never crop up when people discuss their favourites, and although both fav's with me, they were like chalk & cheese.
Nevertheless, I loved both of them and as I mentioned earlier, these are the sort of horses that never crop up when people discuss their favourites, and although both fav's with me, they were like chalk & cheese.
Yeah, Falbrav is fave of mine, if it were possible the re-run those meetings I'd be all over him and prob do my nuts again.
A lot of my faves ran that summer, I was a big fan of Nayef, Rakti and Alamshar.
A lot of my faves ran that summer, I was a big fan of Nayef, Rakti and Alamshar.
FFS BM...........RAKTI?
Nearly as daft as Gary T...........the horse btw......not you.
Nearly as daft as Gary T...........the horse btw......not you.
Shergar, you just had to be there to appreciate that equine poetry in motion. One of my racing highlights definitely.
SB - as regards Shergar...I reckon Glint Of Gold was probably above average for a horse that reached the frame in a Derby, but without wishing to denigrate Shergar's magnificent rout...he beat some awful horses that day and really did have the run of the race.
The runner-up however, did not!
That's just reminded me of another also ran in the race, who was a quality performer, and one of my old favourites...Kalaglow
So that's Kalaglow & Dubai Millennium that just didn't run their races on the day and were well beaten!
There's not as many of them as people believe, and maybe Epsom gets too much flak as the venue for the premier 3yo race.
The runner-up however, did not!
That's just reminded me of another also ran in the race, who was a quality performer, and one of my old favourites...Kalaglow
So that's Kalaglow & Dubai Millennium that just didn't run their races on the day and were well beaten!
There's not as many of them as people believe, and maybe Epsom gets too much flak as the venue for the premier 3yo race.
Great reading this, not a great punting race for me, had a big bet on Motivator at 50/1 (unfortunately for the 2000gns!!). Erhaab was a winner in a poor derby. But for me nothing can eclipse Nashwaan, loved this horse
think kalaglow still holds the rec for the eclipse. (diff course to sts.), he too was a decent horse.
i didnt know high chaperal only lost right handed foetus, ty.
i didnt know high chaperal only lost right handed foetus, ty.
wonder if people will be talking about camelot in 50 yrs.
he has a good name for a start
he has a good name for a start
ILWAB - I'll tell you something else about Kalaglow that's not exactly well known...he was named after his sire (Kalamoun) and his dam (Aglow) though it was revealed many years after he finished racing that his dam was actually a Pall Mall mare called Rossiter, who (I think) was Aglow's sister!
If memory serves...there was some sort of passport mix-up with the dam, though I'm sure some wise-arse will tell me the specific details.
Kalaglow is probably still in my top dozen favourites of all time
If memory serves...there was some sort of passport mix-up with the dam, though I'm sure some wise-arse will tell me the specific details.
Kalaglow is probably still in my top dozen favourites of all time
BM - you're a fcuikin' genius squire...if he was ONLY ever beaten on RH tracks, doesn't logic DICTATE he won ALL his other races
The thread obviously is about favs...............so TBH..............STS is the best yet.............no competition from a class or financial point of view.
Tina Turner sang about him.........before he was even conceived.......doesnt get much better than that.........does it?
Tina Turner sang about him.........before he was even conceived.......doesnt get much better than that.........does it?
That's what I said, unbeaten left handed and I was being deadly serious.
Kalaglow was also a fav of mine especially when he got his favoured ground.
Cacoethes was a similar type to Kalaglow and excelled when the ground was like a road like in the KG but not when softer and 3rd to Nashwan at epsom.
You can also add the great Blushing Groom to the Derby failures and non stayers.
We are so much better informed these days. There was zero chance Blushing groom would stay 12f given he was out of Red God but I think he still started at 9/4F. If the exchanges had been about then he would have started at > 5.0 :-)
Lots of people were surprised when Sir HRC named Blushing Groom as one of the greats of all time but anyone who witnessed his two year old career and french 2g victory will not be surprised.
Cacoethes was a similar type to Kalaglow and excelled when the ground was like a road like in the KG but not when softer and 3rd to Nashwan at epsom.
You can also add the great Blushing Groom to the Derby failures and non stayers.
We are so much better informed these days. There was zero chance Blushing groom would stay 12f given he was out of Red God but I think he still started at 9/4F. If the exchanges had been about then he would have started at > 5.0 :-)
Lots of people were surprised when Sir HRC named Blushing Groom as one of the greats of all time but anyone who witnessed his two year old career and french 2g victory will not be surprised.
he was no killer instinct
frankel is 'the best horse hes ever seen'.
frankel is 'the best horse hes ever seen'.
Behave ilwab..........AOB has had 3,476 best he has ever trained.
ILWAB - ha ha, who could forget killer instinct and to a lesser extent Desert Sun.
Yes re Frankel.
Henry's love of Blushing Groom was based on the beating BG gave JO Tobin. Many at Warren Place thought JO T might have been one of the all time greats and perhaps he was given that he subsequently went to the US and tanked the then unbeaten Seattle Slew but BG absolutely hammered him in the criterium.
Yes re Frankel.
Henry's love of Blushing Groom was based on the beating BG gave JO Tobin. Many at Warren Place thought JO T might have been one of the all time greats and perhaps he was given that he subsequently went to the US and tanked the then unbeaten Seattle Slew but BG absolutely hammered him in the criterium.
GT-MOLE
Date Joined: 20 Mar 12
Blogger: GT-MOLE's blog
Add contact | Send message
01 Jun 12 00:02
Joined:
20 Mar 12
| Topic/replies: 2,769 | Blogger: GT-MOLE's blog
Behave ilwab..........AOB has had 3,476 best he has ever trained.
youre not wrong GT.
who could blame sir henry re frankel tho, hes one of the best ive ever seen too. im happy he got a horse like this, hes a good man.
Date Joined: 20 Mar 12
Blogger: GT-MOLE's blog
Add contact | Send message
01 Jun 12 00:02
Joined:
20 Mar 12
| Topic/replies: 2,769 | Blogger: GT-MOLE's blog
Behave ilwab..........AOB has had 3,476 best he has ever trained.
youre not wrong GT.
who could blame sir henry re frankel tho, hes one of the best ive ever seen too. im happy he got a horse like this, hes a good man.
Funnily enough, desert sun is the maternal sire of Black Caviar so perhaps he did have all the ability in the world but ended up proving this through his genes rather than his races.
HRA is the best living judge of a horses ability bar non imo.To the best of my knowledge he said Frankel was.........the best he had ever trained........only once?
Has he ever repeated that sentiment?
Has he ever repeated that sentiment?
quite possibly.
BC is spectacular isnt she. it wouldve been ironic if she beat frankel given the desert sun relation
BC is spectacular isnt she. it wouldve been ironic if she beat frankel given the desert sun relation
im not sure GT. i heard him say hes the best horse hes ever SEEN. quite a statement.
Agree completely with Foetus and co regarding High Chaparral and Falbrav being favourites - I loved both of them to bits, especially the latter, and also agree that my heart tells me Falbrav was always the better horse, even though results might not have backed that up. He was a beast - loved watching him quicken when he was asked to win a race, whereas HC was more of a sustained galloper - reminded me in an odd way of Denman over the jumps.
Saying this, Brother Mouzone, I had similar experiences with HC. I don't think I ever backed him when he won and as Hawk Wing was my favourite horse for a time, I never really forgave him for outstaying him at Epsom. Magnificent horse though.
I think my favourite Derby memory was Lammtarra. I was still fairly new to the game then and remember backing him ante-post and putting him in the first 10 to follow I ever did. Watching him swamp them late on was really exciting and certainly bought a few drinks too.
Saying this, Brother Mouzone, I had similar experiences with HC. I don't think I ever backed him when he won and as Hawk Wing was my favourite horse for a time, I never really forgave him for outstaying him at Epsom. Magnificent horse though.
I think my favourite Derby memory was Lammtarra. I was still fairly new to the game then and remember backing him ante-post and putting him in the first 10 to follow I ever did. Watching him swamp them late on was really exciting and certainly bought a few drinks too.
Ilwab........I mentioned the Desert Sun line a few weeks ago re- BC..........they all asked "who"?
gtim not an old timer but i make it my business to look backwards as well as forwards.
frankie regards lammtara as possibly the greatest horse hes ever ridden,who could argue, remarkable horse.
TD - I'm glad that someone agrees with me for a change
I always remember the burst Falbrav produced to ransack Nayef in the Eclipse, and although the latter admirably closed to about a neck to the line, he really was NEVER gonna win and was hugely flattered to get so close.
I always remember the burst Falbrav produced to ransack Nayef in the Eclipse, and although the latter admirably closed to about a neck to the line, he really was NEVER gonna win and was hugely flattered to get so close.
Thanks ILWAB - I am off from the day job until July 1 so will have more time to post. Otherwise I just enjoy reading.
Ironic indeed if BC was ever to beat Frankel.
Desert Sun's morning work was spectacular. He'd continually leave his companions for dead. They tried him at everything from 7f to 12f but whilst he would always run well in his races he just wouldn't finish his races like he finished his work.
I saw the work and the bookies saw my money and they kept seeing it race after race. My lesson about morning glories was well and truly learned that year!
Ironic indeed if BC was ever to beat Frankel.
Desert Sun's morning work was spectacular. He'd continually leave his companions for dead. They tried him at everything from 7f to 12f but whilst he would always run well in his races he just wouldn't finish his races like he finished his work.
I saw the work and the bookies saw my money and they kept seeing it race after race. My lesson about morning glories was well and truly learned that year!
In his last season he ran in 10 races, all Group Ones, in five different countries, on ground from Very Soft to Firm, and won five of them, over 8, 9 and 10 furlongs. He also got chinned by HC and Johar in that awesome Breeders' Cup race over 12.
What a horse!
What a horse!
Lammtarra was exceptional ilwab..........sad and in a way tragic.....but the performances on the course have few peers.
Outstanding horse and as said earlier Gallileo (Whom I do not hold in the same esteem) STS and Workforce are the only really top class winners since.
Outstanding horse and as said earlier Gallileo (Whom I do not hold in the same esteem) STS and Workforce are the only really top class winners since.
GT - you're standing by your statement from earlier?
I don't see how Workforce can be rated higher than High Chaparral, though it's a matter of opinion
I don't see how Workforce can be rated higher than High Chaparral, though it's a matter of opinion
High Chaparral was an exceptional horse.
Tough as old boots and normally ridden to perfection by Kinane.
HC reputation suffered as a result of the Hawk Wing derby hype and the perception of being AOB second choice.
Very likely that without Hawk Wing at Epsom HC would have won by several lengths and been odds on doing it. Subsequent HC triumphs in US and over the very brilliant Falbrav puts HC significantly above Workforce in my pecking order.
Tough as old boots and normally ridden to perfection by Kinane.
HC reputation suffered as a result of the Hawk Wing derby hype and the perception of being AOB second choice.
Very likely that without Hawk Wing at Epsom HC would have won by several lengths and been odds on doing it. Subsequent HC triumphs in US and over the very brilliant Falbrav puts HC significantly above Workforce in my pecking order.
High Chaparral was an exceptional horse.
Tough as old boots and normally ridden to perfection by Kinane.
HC reputation suffered as a result of the Hawk Wing derby hype and the perception of being AOB second choice.
Very likely that without Hawk Wing at Epsom HC would have won by several lengths and been odds on doing it. Subsequent HC triumphs in US and over the very brilliant Falbrav puts HC significantly above Workforce in my pecking order.
Tough as old boots and normally ridden to perfection by Kinane.
HC reputation suffered as a result of the Hawk Wing derby hype and the perception of being AOB second choice.
Very likely that without Hawk Wing at Epsom HC would have won by several lengths and been odds on doing it. Subsequent HC triumphs in US and over the very brilliant Falbrav puts HC significantly above Workforce in my pecking order.
Just opinion H, HC was a very decent horse but Workforce never fulfilled all his undoubted potential despite his Derby and Arc win.In fact imo the Derby probably did a lot of damage that few saw.
I did say on the RP site that the Derby might have left a lasting legacy,he was a big horse but still had a lot of growing to do.His muscles and bones took a pounding in his Derby............and SMS made an error of judgement running him against Harbinger.
Advised people to lump on for the Derby pre-post Dante and the same for the Arc................layed off a fair bit of my 9/2 for the Arc at around 9/4 pre the KG.Then topped up at around 12/1 post KG.
He was looking like a 4yo at 3 but he did not have the internal ballistics to match,the fact he won the Arc with his physiology marks him down as exceptional.
I did say on the RP site that the Derby might have left a lasting legacy,he was a big horse but still had a lot of growing to do.His muscles and bones took a pounding in his Derby............and SMS made an error of judgement running him against Harbinger.
Advised people to lump on for the Derby pre-post Dante and the same for the Arc................layed off a fair bit of my 9/2 for the Arc at around 9/4 pre the KG.Then topped up at around 12/1 post KG.
He was looking like a 4yo at 3 but he did not have the internal ballistics to match,the fact he won the Arc with his physiology marks him down as exceptional.
1978: aged 15 in school uniform placing bets for my schoolmates & a teacher. Try doing that now!
Who did you/they back Saxon?
FFS I got severely attacked on here a couple of years ago for confessing about being assaulted by my French teacher in a cupboard at school.
Nobody said anything about the Latin Master who liked a punt and talked about golf/fishing and racing?
FFS I got severely attacked on here a couple of years ago for confessing about being assaulted by my French teacher in a cupboard at school.
Nobody said anything about the Latin Master who liked a punt and talked about golf/fishing and racing?
There was a Mr.Smith at our school who liked a punt, and he was the only teacher that didn't grass up all the delinquents that sneaked out to the bookies at lunch-time
Being molested by French teachers should be compulsory education......................she was...........magnifique.imo
Alas the was no gash at our school GT
Then again...we did have a rather tasty secretary that got her jollies from turning on pubescent schoolboys with her low-cut tops
Then again...we did have a rather tasty secretary that got her jollies from turning on pubescent schoolboys with her low-cut tops
£400 a term H............shirley entitled to an extra or 2?
No **** at my school unlike Julian Wilson and big Mac..........soon kicked those fooks into jobs in the media.
No **** at my school unlike Julian Wilson and big Mac..........soon kicked those fooks into jobs in the media.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-rD0IEE1RI
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5US2UEwnnRg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-rD0IEE1RI
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5US2UEwnnRg
GT - judging by your grammar (even allowing for your copious alcoholic imbibements) I think your parents should demand a refund!
£400 per term? That's even more than my giro!
Goodnight Sir!
£400 per term?
That's even more than my giro! Goodnight Sir!
Foetus
Date Joined: 17 Apr 12
Add contact | Send message
01 Jun 12 01:38
Joined:
17 Apr 12
| Topic/replies: 378 | Blogger: Foetus's blog
Alas the was no gash at our school GT
Then again...we did have a rather tasty secretary that got her jollies from turning on pubescent schoolboys with her low-cut tops
Rate reply:
| report block user
GT-MOLE
01 Jun 12 01:43
Joined:
20 Mar 12
| Topic/replies: 2,784 | Blogger: GT-MOLE's blog
£400 a term H............shirley entitled to an extra or 2?
No **** at my school unlike Julian Wilson and big Mac..........soon kicked those fooks into jobs in the media.
anyone got a bucket of water
Date Joined: 17 Apr 12
Add contact | Send message
01 Jun 12 01:38
Joined:
17 Apr 12
| Topic/replies: 378 | Blogger: Foetus's blog
Alas the was no gash at our school GT
Then again...we did have a rather tasty secretary that got her jollies from turning on pubescent schoolboys with her low-cut tops
Rate reply:
| report block user
GT-MOLE
01 Jun 12 01:43
Joined:
20 Mar 12
| Topic/replies: 2,784 | Blogger: GT-MOLE's blog
£400 a term H............shirley entitled to an extra or 2?
No **** at my school unlike Julian Wilson and big Mac..........soon kicked those fooks into jobs in the media.
anyone got a bucket of water
Oracle ilwab............he had class unlike H.........although very alike and I love them both?
Saxon Farm - a horse I remember well!!! I had a big ante post punt throughout the winter on Alistar O'Mavros for the triumph hurdle which was busted by your namesake.
Re Lammtarra, yes exceptional and not easy to argue against his unbeaten record which was achieved in very difficult circumstances and on a range of goings.
I have always found Lammtarra impossible to rate. I can remember each of his four races 'in the flesh' and I have subsequently seen them many times on tape and I still don't know what to make of him.
Lammtarra is one of those rare champion horses that I didn't emotionally connect with and I really wish I had more race evidence on which to form a more solid opinion of his place in the hierarchy of champions.
In my mind he is rated about(and very respectably) equal to The Minstrel. The Minstrel was tough as old boots with a bit of class. Nearly group 1 at a mile and unbeaten in the big three championship races (two derby's and KG). In a different world he would probably also have won the Arc but VOB had an even better one in Alledged so Sangster packed him off to stud.
Unfortunately Lammtarra's derby win (and other three victories) didn't give me the Derby jaw drop open mouth I had watching Golden Fleece accelerate from Tattenham corner or Cauthen on Slip Anchor leading them home like three mile chasers in the mud or Reference Point repelling all challengers from the front or Troy finishing like a train or Nijinsky pulling a cart or Generous and Nashwan plus a few others beside.
Jockeys are not good judges. I heard Frankie considered Lammtarra possibly the greatest though I thought he previously stated Dubai Millenium was his best.
If I had a pound for every time a jockey stated best ever then I would be a rich man.
Two crackers I remember are the incomparable Lester stating that Try My Best was the best horse he'd ever sat on prior to finishing tailed off at odds on in the guineas. pat Eddery (three years post Grundy) stating that Leonardo Da Vinci was the best horse he'd ever sat on based on beating Philodantes by 10 l in the listed White Rose Stakes at Ascot...I think Leonardo went close to evens for the derby based on the win and Pat's praise but three weeks later it was fourth in the dante and never sighted again
Re Lammtarra, yes exceptional and not easy to argue against his unbeaten record which was achieved in very difficult circumstances and on a range of goings.
I have always found Lammtarra impossible to rate. I can remember each of his four races 'in the flesh' and I have subsequently seen them many times on tape and I still don't know what to make of him.
Lammtarra is one of those rare champion horses that I didn't emotionally connect with and I really wish I had more race evidence on which to form a more solid opinion of his place in the hierarchy of champions.
In my mind he is rated about(and very respectably) equal to The Minstrel. The Minstrel was tough as old boots with a bit of class. Nearly group 1 at a mile and unbeaten in the big three championship races (two derby's and KG). In a different world he would probably also have won the Arc but VOB had an even better one in Alledged so Sangster packed him off to stud.
Unfortunately Lammtarra's derby win (and other three victories) didn't give me the Derby jaw drop open mouth I had watching Golden Fleece accelerate from Tattenham corner or Cauthen on Slip Anchor leading them home like three mile chasers in the mud or Reference Point repelling all challengers from the front or Troy finishing like a train or Nijinsky pulling a cart or Generous and Nashwan plus a few others beside.
Jockeys are not good judges. I heard Frankie considered Lammtarra possibly the greatest though I thought he previously stated Dubai Millenium was his best.
If I had a pound for every time a jockey stated best ever then I would be a rich man.
Two crackers I remember are the incomparable Lester stating that Try My Best was the best horse he'd ever sat on prior to finishing tailed off at odds on in the guineas. pat Eddery (three years post Grundy) stating that Leonardo Da Vinci was the best horse he'd ever sat on based on beating Philodantes by 10 l in the listed White Rose Stakes at Ascot...I think Leonardo went close to evens for the derby based on the win and Pat's praise but three weeks later it was fourth in the dante and never sighted again
GT
If memory serves Inkerman was the popular choice. I bad 50p ew Remainder Man. Shirley Hights was a skinner, and the teacher who had a dollar ew on Dickens Hill told me to put the returns in the charity box, which I probably did not!
If memory serves Inkerman was the popular choice. I bad 50p ew Remainder Man. Shirley Hights was a skinner, and the teacher who had a dollar ew on Dickens Hill told me to put the returns in the charity box, which I probably did not!
Hello tELF
Oh yes, I remember Alistair O'Mavros trained by Josh Gifford. Was he beaten at Cheltenham previously by Wollow Will (Fred Winter) fav for the '83 Triumph?
Oh yes, I remember Alistair O'Mavros trained by Josh Gifford. Was he beaten at Cheltenham previously by Wollow Will (Fred Winter) fav for the '83 Triumph?
Sorry Saxon,sidetracked.I do remember Remainder Man,Dickens Hill and particularly Shirley Heights.
Poor kids have no chance now at succeeding if this forum is an indicator,the mother laying comatose and the father on a FOBT or on here 24/7?
Poor kids have no chance now at succeeding if this forum is an indicator,the mother laying comatose and the father on a FOBT or on here 24/7?
just shows how impossible this game is , frankie, eddery, piggot all denouncing the greatest they ever sat on yet get tailed off soon after, yet the full blown arguments on here (me inc)on how x horse is better than y horse, i stll wont hear of a better horse than sea the stars
night fellas, enjoy your racing.
night fellas, enjoy your racing.
Hello Saxon Farm, yes that's correct re Wollow Will at the New Years meeting at Cheltenham just prior to the Bishops Cleve Hurdle (I think). I used to get a lot of antepost 'advice' from Gifford's stable - some good and some bad. Simpler times back then...no internet with only bizarre extel commentaries as the source of live racing (outside terrestial coverage) unless you were on course.
Back then it was much easier to bet successfully antepost and I sometimes think I would make mincemeat of the layers if I could go back to the future with today's technology.
I remember Inkerman well, he won the Gallinule at the Curragh in 1978 and on the basis of that win, plus having Vincent and Lester he went off fav in the derby.
Inkerman was truly a housewives punt and certainly not within two stone of an average derby winner based on form but derby ammunition at Ballydoyle was in very, very short supply that year and Vincent and Lester were Gods.
Back then it was much easier to bet successfully antepost and I sometimes think I would make mincemeat of the layers if I could go back to the future with today's technology.
I remember Inkerman well, he won the Gallinule at the Curragh in 1978 and on the basis of that win, plus having Vincent and Lester he went off fav in the derby.
Inkerman was truly a housewives punt and certainly not within two stone of an average derby winner based on form but derby ammunition at Ballydoyle was in very, very short supply that year and Vincent and Lester were Gods.
As someone who never backed STS so was always kinda looking at him from outside in i thought he had everything and never got the credit for all he achieved.The Arc was amazing.
Frankel's move off the bend in the Royal Lodge was something that will always stay with me dunno but it sent shivers through me at the time.
Really hope for the horses legacy that he gets to prove how good he is this year.
Frankel's move off the bend in the Royal Lodge was something that will always stay with me dunno but it sent shivers through me at the time.
Really hope for the horses legacy that he gets to prove how good he is this year.
High Chaparral was beaten first time out in Punchestown,flat racing long since gone from there.
Nijinsky was far and away the best Derby winner I saw,he beat probably the best field for years on his way to winning the Triple Crown,also have a soft spot for Grundy.
Nijinsky was far and away the best Derby winner I saw,he beat probably the best field for years on his way to winning the Triple Crown,also have a soft spot for Grundy.
Although the horse I backed finished 3rd, I could not help being impressed by the winner Sea Bird. Has to be the greatest horse I will ever be privileged to see.
yeah, still think he is the great'est, i was in the stable yard at Epsom, 1970, went to see Nijinsky and Lupe,
Dead-Heat for me, Sea The Stars & Nashwan, both landed me nice ante-p bets. Great days, lets hope Camelot does the same.
Epsom used to be an annual pilgrimage for me until they moved it to a saturday,just not the same feel about it now imo...
Golden Fleece is the best horse i've seen win the Derby whilst Secreto was the most memorable.
Golden Fleece is the best horse i've seen win the Derby whilst Secreto was the most memorable.
Enjoy reading your posts tELF, sending me down memory lane. Nijinsky would be the best flat horse ive ever seen, and if VOB hadnt gone to the well when the horse wasnt ready, he would have retired unbeaten.
Remember Saxon Farm winning the Triumph, as a pal of mine had a rather large bet on it, and he and his money were rarely parted.
Remember Saxon Farm winning the Triumph, as a pal of mine had a rather large bet on it, and he and his money were rarely parted.
nijinsky was also ill going to france wasnt he. crying shame, still expect him to go on when i watch the arc.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539