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William Buick for me
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Richard Johnson for me he couldn't ride pigs to market
Ever? What for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever?
he should be rideing pony that buick, he never wins in a battle of strenghth he is weak
Is this a thread for overrated jocks, or just jockeys who you can never seem to get right? 
Darryl Holland is my pick on both counts!!
Darryl Holland is my pick on both counts!!
Philip Robinson - overrated by the media rather than punters for his tactical genius, the basis for which seemed to be that he used to walk the course before racing.
Photo finish between Frankie (over rated by the sycophants in the media), Hughes and Spencer (over rated in their own heads) although all still good on their day.
buick is my favourite jockey.
tadgh o'shea is a vile man
and ted durcan too.
tadgh o'shea is a vile man
and ted durcan too.
I think all jockeys and trainers are way overrated and all winning horses underrated.
Gerry - I'm with you on that about Robinson, though I don't think he's a bad jockey at all...just over-rated.
As you stated...he walks the course before winning on a high-profile favourite (like Rakti) and it's telegraphed by the TV that he's a tactical genius!
He's had the odd success on what has been perceived as the unfavoured side of the track, though there's never any criticism for the mounts that have gone AWOL.
He also milked (or maybe the media did on his behalf) that correct choice he made in the Coronation Stakes of 1984, when surprisingly he opted for Katies instead of Pebbles.
Some people like to go against the grain just for the sake of it, and revel in the plaudits, when in reality there should be more balance - this doesn't just apply to Robinson, but any smart-arse that tries a different tactic to enhance their profile and get noticed!
Alan Munro was another that adjusted his style, and it worked in spades with him getting the Fahd Salman retainer - good luck to him for that, because ability-wise...he wasn't up to the task though he did nothing wrong on Generous.
Like Robinson, Munro was another decent jockey but there were plenty better.
As you stated...he walks the course before winning on a high-profile favourite (like Rakti) and it's telegraphed by the TV that he's a tactical genius!
He's had the odd success on what has been perceived as the unfavoured side of the track, though there's never any criticism for the mounts that have gone AWOL.
He also milked (or maybe the media did on his behalf) that correct choice he made in the Coronation Stakes of 1984, when surprisingly he opted for Katies instead of Pebbles.
Some people like to go against the grain just for the sake of it, and revel in the plaudits, when in reality there should be more balance - this doesn't just apply to Robinson, but any smart-arse that tries a different tactic to enhance their profile and get noticed!
Alan Munro was another that adjusted his style, and it worked in spades with him getting the Fahd Salman retainer - good luck to him for that, because ability-wise...he wasn't up to the task though he did nothing wrong on Generous.
Like Robinson, Munro was another decent jockey but there were plenty better.
Alan Munro was a top class jockey who was previously winning on big priced poor horse for the likes of Mel Brittan around the northern gaffs tracks. Granted he was lucky to an extent to be picked for the Fahd Salman job and had plenty of much higher profile success that other jockeys could have won on, including Richard Quinn who already had won on some and probably would have on the future ones too but Munro was still top class.
Even when he came back Munro showed he was still able to do the job as good as any if given the horse.
Even when he came back Munro showed he was still able to do the job as good as any if given the horse.
ima_mazed66
19 May 12 11:56
Frankie (over rated by the sycophants in the media)
Overexposed? deffo
Rimmed by media morons? yep
Commentaries ruined by the caller focusing on him? woah there, yes
His ability in the saddle overrated? Nope, in his pomp he was one of the best jockeys to have ridden in this country imo.
19 May 12 11:56
Frankie (over rated by the sycophants in the media)
Overexposed? deffo
Rimmed by media morons? yep
Commentaries ruined by the caller focusing on him? woah there, yes
His ability in the saddle overrated? Nope, in his pomp he was one of the best jockeys to have ridden in this country imo.
Sylvester De Souza, champion jockey that didn't win a classic. (Did he even ride in one)
Piggott. He rode 80% losers but gets god like status.
old thread so updated the %
was he riding in 2012?
was he riding in 2012?
Is this historical comparison again...? (rico)
But for overated I'd note they have to be talked up a lot - so of course, there's a few:
Dettori, Blackmore, Hughes all spring to mind as most talked up and reified ad nauseum. Then all quite capable of being pants in any given ride...
But for overated I'd note they have to be talked up a lot - so of course, there's a few:
Dettori, Blackmore, Hughes all spring to mind as most talked up and reified ad nauseum. Then all quite capable of being pants in any given ride...
Agreed, Buick is probably the most over rated jockey ever, I think he is hopless to be honest.
May 19, 2012 -- 9:30AM, silverback7 wrote:
Richard Johnson for me he couldn't ride pigs to market
2nd to the great ap mccoy 34 years on the trot, he cant be that bad
Really? So why does he have the best job in racing? Only 13 wins in 14 days so he must be hopeless. Only £17 million in GB prize money in 5 years. Shocking.
The thread is not about who is good but who is overrated.
George Formby and Elizabeth Taylor , can't believe either could repeat those movie rides again.
Any jockey that gets a cheerleading crew from the modern bunch of presenters is overated IMO - there's no-one that good to need to have fans standing by fauning over them!
basilbrush 19 May 23 17:31
Agreed, Buick is probably the most over rated jockey ever, I think he is hopless to be honest.
incredible comment.
Agreed, Buick is probably the most over rated jockey ever, I think he is hopless to be honest.
incredible comment.
To actually believe he's hopeless you have to also believe the likes of Appleby and several other top trainers are very poor judges.
Doubt there's so many poor judges so i'd have to guess he's not hopeless.
Doubt there's so many poor judges so i'd have to guess he's not hopeless.
Appleyby no great shakes, like Buick, he is training a whole host of top class horses which Buick obviously rides. In fact many of Applebys horses this season have looked fat as pigs and unfit and have run that way, if you guys think he is a genius you need to give your head a shake.
Not saying he's a genius as all he does is ride horses so doesn't need to be Einstein , just that he's far from hopeless.
Think generally i'd be trusting trainers judgements rather than pundits.
Think generally i'd be trusting trainers judgements rather than pundits.
basilbrush - when was the last time you posted a positive jockey comment? or is that not the kind of thing you go in for?
and alan munro was the most underrated ever, absolutely brilliant jock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhi6yR9liE4
For you Pandora. I liked him too, but if he was riding today, he'd get slaughtered on here, for being "weak" in a finish. Takes all sorts. Bet Basil didn't like him assuming he's that old.
For you Pandora. I liked him too, but if he was riding today, he'd get slaughtered on here, for being "weak" in a finish. Takes all sorts. Bet Basil didn't like him
assuming he's that old.
I know there are an awful lot of pompous delusional egomaniacs like you on here Blackbarn, best keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than constantly open it and confirm the fact.
Agree with you Pandora, and the OP, massively over rated but you have to understand racing and be able to recognise bad rides and underperformers, most of the clowns on here with their stupid comments and threads are totally clueless.
Not sure I expected abuse and cliche, but if that's the best you can do!! A pompous fool like me might pose "just answer the fkin question". When was it?
Mouse Roberts was probably an average Champion Jockey nice man though.
Blackbarn, with all due respect I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in answering any of your demented narcissistic questions, or reading any of your plentiful deranged offerings on this or any other thread.
Wasn't it Munro that really started the style of riding with the toe in the iron.......
Yes Cauthen, but he rode more with it half foot.... and Dettori was a definite full foot when he won the French Derby on Polytain in '92.
https://www.pinterest.ch/pin/508977195369298982/
But Munro was the man who looked cool pushing one out in a finish.
Yes Cauthen, but he rode more with it half foot.... and Dettori was a definite full foot when he won the French Derby on Polytain in '92.
https://www.pinterest.ch/pin/508977195369298982/
But Munro was the man who looked cool pushing one out in a finish.
Too many people who post on here judge professional jockeys and trainers by the losers they ride or train rather than the winners. Nobody outside of the immediate connections know what the plans are for a horse so how can you judge the ride? If the plan is to run a horse a couple of times to get it fit for a future target then the jockey is quite right to give it an easy time in the last furlong. I know that punters expect them all to be 100% fit every time but that is cloud cuckoo land. I judge jockeys on how often they get the pace right and then the finishing run. Buick wins a lot from the front but there are two jockeys who win a lot of races by getting up on the post. Buick and Probert who started together at Kingsclere.
Overated...
J .Spencer
Paul Eddery
Richard Hills.
Tom Queally
Underatted.
Gary Carter
Hayley Turner
Mark Goldstein
T Quinn
J .Spencer
Paul Eddery
Richard Hills.
Tom Queally
Underatted.
Gary Carter
Hayley Turner
Mark Goldstein
T Quinn
"....... Buick is probably the most over rated jockey ever, I think he is hopless to be honest..... "
Is that why he's champion jockey ?
Is that why he's champion jockey ?
Why did rico have to resurrect this old thread? Attracting so much nonsense as it has.
Let me be the probably first poster ever to openly admit i never criticise jockeys because i don't feel qualified to do so , yes there are the odd one pretty blatant but 99% of perceived bad rides are just conjecture and far too subjective for any lengthy discussion.
I've watched tens of thousands of races over the years but that alone doesn't make you an expertly trained eye and i'd rather take the word of someone more qualified who actually put their money where their mouth is by employing such people trusting their ability consistently with no gambling axe to grind.
My own view has always been that anyone expecting a jockey to ride to their maximum ability on every occasion , a trainer to produce a horse to give their best every run or a horse to run to their rating every time has unattainable expectations and needs a new hobby , otherwise their lifetime gambling experience will do their health and mood swings no good at all.
When do jockeys ride these so called injudicious races exactly , well the jockey doesn't know until after the race and we as punters certainly don't , so guys it's all guesswork and everyone will have their own subjective opinion......all in hindsight.
Good luck today all
I've watched tens of thousands of races over the years but that alone doesn't make you an expertly trained eye and i'd rather take the word of someone more qualified who actually put their money where their mouth is by employing such people trusting their ability consistently with no gambling axe to grind.
My own view has always been that anyone expecting a jockey to ride to their maximum ability on every occasion , a trainer to produce a horse to give their best every run or a horse to run to their rating every time has unattainable expectations and needs a new hobby , otherwise their lifetime gambling experience will do their health and mood swings no good at all.
When do jockeys ride these so called injudicious races exactly , well the jockey doesn't know until after the race and we as punters certainly don't , so guys it's all guesswork and everyone will have their own subjective opinion......all in hindsight.
Good luck today all
Between Buick and Sanders......to hear Sanders talk you would think he was 10 times champion jockey
Big muff 20 May 23 14:31
Between Buick and Sanders......to hear Sanders talk you would think he was 10 times champion jockey
To hear you talk I thought you must have been.
Between Buick and Sanders......to hear Sanders talk you would think he was 10 times champion jockey
To hear you talk I thought you must have been.
For once an ancient thread rebooted by RDF that is actually worth a revisit. I agree with Hayden. For my part I think I can sopt a good ride more quickly than I can a bad one, but that doesn't stop opinions popping up and in he long term those views can lead to an unhealthy prejudice which can prove costly. I speak from experience.
Dettori was in the wilderness and could hardly get a ride. Now he's a genius admired by all trainers who forgot the wilderness years
Trainers just follow fashion, their opinion can change like the wind.
Trainers just follow fashion, their opinion can change like the wind.
99% of jockeys are over rated ! , very little skill or above average ability needed.
You just need to be a little person weighing below 7 stone and your in . That`s it on the flat.
Much more skill , guts and horsemanship needed for the jumps.
Anyone can be a flat jockey,
You just need to be a little person weighing below 7 stone and your in . That`s it on the flat.
Much more skill , guts and horsemanship needed for the jumps.
Anyone can be a flat jockey,
So why do owners and trainers scramble to give generous retainers to the "best" ones. A lot of the answer to that is what happens out of the public eye. How often do the jockeys come to the yard and get to know the horses? How do horses react to being ridden by a certain jockey? Does the jockey have the same goals as the trainer? So many factors as well as how they ride a race.
But back to the OP. Buick was sensational on Shobiz. A competitive handicap over 6 furlongs. He is drawn on what had seemed to be the wrong side all afternoon. All exposed sprinters but he sits a length or two off the speed until the final furlong, lets the others battle it out until 100 yards out and then strikes. Brilliant.
But back to the OP. Buick was sensational on Shobiz. A competitive handicap over 6 furlongs. He is drawn on what had seemed to be the wrong side all afternoon. All exposed sprinters but he sits a length or two off the speed until the final furlong, lets the others battle it out until 100 yards out and then strikes. Brilliant.
Probably true jimnast. I must admit that I put the unseat at Newbury down to his age and lack of recent riding but he has been as good as ever in the last 3 weeks. He is prone to coming back too quickly from injury though and I doubt if he spends much time on an exerciser.
Hello sageform
For many years frankie has been put up as good for racing ,unlike Moore,edderry,and lester he was good in front of the camera and like a bit of front the crowds love him,all that has slightly hidden the fact he has been a world class jockey for a very long time,regarding the greenham it happens.
For many years frankie has been put up as good for racing ,unlike Moore,edderry,and lester he was good in front of the camera and like a bit of front the crowds love him,all that has slightly hidden the fact he has been a world class jockey for a very long time,regarding the greenham it happens.
Mornington Cannon use to weigh 13st 8lb in the winter and get down to 6st4lb in the summer
Gerry Gallbladder nails it. "Pip" Robinson was wholly overrated.
Must agree with Tom about Frank - how someone that can basically ride as bad as him (sometimes absolutely awful) yet have his own fanclub as though he's somehow a classy or genius rider...that beggars belief must admit.
A good definition for overrated that combo of ability and rating for sure.
A good definition for overrated that combo of ability and rating for sure.
Buick seems to have his own delusional fan club on here too Stu 
I'm not a massive Buick fan, as per his recent ride, but I'd say he messes up a little less than Frank overall, so I'd give him that comparison.
Another vintage Spencer ride given to Optik in the 1715 at Wolves
Any jockey that allows his backside to bump up and down on the horse's back because he's either too unfit and/or too lazy to stand upright throughout the race!
Really cannot understand the anti-Buick brigade. Do you really think the likes of the Sheik and C. Appleby would tolerate a jockey costing them literally millions of dollars by losing group 1 races he should have won thereby missing out on breeding rights?
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