Threatening letter from Stanjames. Advice needed please.

AEROBICENGINE V STAN JAMES

THERE WILL BE A 2 HOUR RECESSION WHILE BOTH CLIENTS CAN SORT THEIR AFTERNOON BETS OUT

CALL MONEY TREE TO THE WITNESS STAND

jamilla14
08 May 12 22:15 Joined: 07 Feb 03 | Topic/replies: 41 | Blogger: jamilla14's blog
I am amazed you did not notice that your losing stakes were not being taken from said bank account.Legally,Stan James should have written to you once they realised the oversight as opposed to just helping themselves.Nevertheless,you do still owe the money lost,I am confident you would have expected payment had the bets been winners.Morally you should pay but if you do not,S J will simply write it off,close your account and inform other bookmakers of your non payment so as to make opening any new accounts difficult.Jail or flogging is not an option.

I know the story as regards this firm.If I ever get any proof that my account details have been given to another company then I will make sure that they are closed down and I live in luxury for the rest of my life...

ill give:

4/6 the OP gets away with it.
5/4 the OP is forced to pay back the money.

ez - be nice to think that he was though. Seemed a genuine enquiry! These come up every few months and always end up as.....

1. Just pay what you owe.
2. Ignore it and screw the bookies
3. You might have a case, take some advice.

The problem is that these kind of threads always attract those who are firmly in one camp or another without much evidence for them being in one or another.  I am firmly a camp 3 bloke as can be seen from my posts.

Generally this place is not imo the greatest source of independant and objective advice.

Although you could argue it is unethical, they have not commited a fraudulent offense. The OP gave them his bank details.


The OP has signed up to SJames' T's and C's and as a result does not have a leg to stand on.

me too mate. i can see the case for both sides, seems a lot of unneccessary arguing when no-one actually knows what to do for sure!! 

Threating letters and calls from debtors are now regulated by new laws that effect all matters concerning money that is owed to companies and though you may well owe the money, the way it can be paid back and the rate that is affordable by you is in your hands if you seek free legal advice on the matter...

Although you could argue it is unethical, they have not commited a fraudulent offense. The OP gave them his bank details.

This gives them carte blanche to go into his account when they wish?

The fact that the monies were returned to the o.p. signifies to me that it was more than unethical.

FACT 1.............bet or buy insurance with your debit card and it is a legal free for all with your account.

FACT 2..It is diabolical and a liberty

FACT 3....Anybody you have ever used to make a purchase from with a debit card has access to your account at any time.

Presumably the OP used a debit card.........if that is the case the recipient of the funds can go in as and when they like.........even for money they are not entitled to.The banks deny it but it is exactly this slackness that allows your car insurers etc to put you on perpetual cover.

So let me get this straight. StanJames went into the o.p's account and were legally allowed to do so.
Why did they pay the money back to the o.p. when they had right (the law) on their side?

And are now asking for it back *

Presumably the OP used a debit card.........if that is the case the recipient of the funds can go in as and when they like.........even for money they are not entitled to.

FM, that must be the brandy talking

He states he got all "his" funds back and does not deny that he owes them................he is at fault as it stands at this moment in time.

The fact they returned funds to his account suggests they confirm a technical fault and acted in good faith and not because of any law.

More Welching punters than bookies FACT..........and 1.01 the OP had money paid back into his account and knew the circumstances.........so guilty of theft if he wants to Welch.nap

JC...........30 years of Law study..........even with a bottle of brandy.

Ffs Think back to the tw&t trying to sign up people to sue BF after the VLV debacle......................no win no fee?

Remember?

Who exposed the twa* as an insurance salesman?

They would hold onto the money until the outcome could be established.
If law is on their side they would not return the money. WTF should they?
You do know these are bookies right? They produce nothing. All they do is move money back and forth.
It is absolutely preposterous to think that with the law on their side that the money that was owed to them anyway, would go anywhere.

Anyway, we are in dire need of someone who actually knows the law, cuz we could be getting dizzy with going round in circles.
Corbiewood knows muchly muchly, he'll solve it

OP here. Thanks for the responses. I can assure you the situation is legitimate. I'm surprised there aren't  more people who this happened to, given that there must be lots of customers using AIB cards to bet with stanjames/betpack, and as far as I am aware, everyone who that applies to will have had this happen to them last year. Two people I know had the same thing happen, but for both it was only for 40-50 euro so they never bothered with the hassle of the bank chargeback in november to claim back their funds. Just to clear a few things up: I am Irish and use an Irish bank/ laser card. Some of the bets won and some lost. I'd estimate that I broke even overall on the non-charged bets. The winnings were returned to my bank a/c as normal during this period. 

I'm not at all pretending the money is rightfully mine, but to be honest, it's an amount that's significant to me so if I am in any way legally entitled to keep the money, I will. There are some firms who I would act differently with, but given my experience with Stanjames, I would feel little guilt if I didn't repay them. Their limiting policy on customers they think might have an edge contrasted with their glad acceptance of mug/problem punters gives me little sympathy for them. I spoke to a member of customer services on the day they took the lump sum with no notice, and he told me this situation dated back months, and that they had customers freaking out and raging at them over this, many of whom were fooled into thinking they had more money than they actually had in the bank before it was taken unannounced, and were in financial torment as a result on the runup to christmas. They told me they informed the bank 2 days before the money was taken. My bank said they had not told them this was going to happen. I have contacted a person in the Irish Payment Services Organisation, who told me that while Stanjames taking the money wasn't fraudulent (it was after all their money), it was nevertheless unusual and improper to present receipts for payment after such a long time.

This is another aspect which makes me want to fight the case. Why, after I got the cashback, have they waited a full six months before contacting me seeking repayment? All that time I thought I had much much more funds available to me than it appears I should have, and have spent (and bet!) accordingly. The person at IPSO told me they have no right to claim the funds back through the bank, that option expired after 30 days, but they are free to reclaim their funds by other means if they provided a proper service. If I had acted improperly or placed many more bets during this period trying to take advantage, then I would be more understanding of their case, since it would be evident I was trying to take advantage, but the fact is, they messed up, either them or the merchant they employ to handle their transactions, and the way I see it, they should be held accountable for the c0ckup. Otherwise, what is to prevent the same thing happening again, as homefortea has alluded to?

I have emailed a couple of solicitors who have advertised on their websites that they have experts in Irish and international gambling/gaming law on their websites, and though I'm very thankful for any advice given here, I'll defer to those professionals if they think I have a right to hold onto the money or not.

I'm assuming that the chargeback claim takes the money back in the same way that they took the money in the first place. It is a bank to bank

Chargeback was allowed because the OP did not give permission for the transaction but it is not illegal.

The dispute will then continue as it is now with the OP having to pay the money back because under the T's and C's he is in the wrong,

That is how I would understand it.

I'm assuming that the chargeback claim takes the money back in the same way that they took the money in the first place. It is a bank to bank transfer in reverse.

Chargeback was allowed because the OP did not give permission for the transaction but it is not illegal.

The dispute will then continue as it is now with the OP having to pay the money back because under the T's and C's he is in the wrong,

That is how I would understand it.

gibraltar have there own courts so they can only force you to pay in gib the whole of gib is bent imo

There is a pompous tw@t who posts on chit chat who I think is a solicitor.

'Orioles' or some such

Mind you he would no doubt take the legal moral high ground

ASs I said before in my considered opinion I would just ignore them or tell them to fook off

They have a bunch of thieving gobshytes with a lousy website and are based offshore to avoid properly due taxes so deserve nothing more

It sounds like they have acted illegally in attempting to take money from your bank account as a sum instead of the payments and references you used.

op now seeking advice from solicitors experienced in the subject.

Silly man, should rely on Homefortea's homespun legalise or better still listened to the last two posters who clearly know f'all and couldn't even be bothered to read the thread.

"who have advertised on their websites that they have experts in Irish and international gambling/gaming law on their websites,"  build it and they will come.........

just to explain gibraltar as i was over there last week again the whole thing is built on bent money, money laundering, false property sales, bent legals, bent fk everything all swimming in the same sh*te. the gambling commission is straight!

But they use English law mainly.

Also, if anyone, preferably in Ireland, has a suggestion for a solicitor or someone knowledgeable about gambling law, much appreciated!

Morally OP should give the money but in slow installments to reflect the trouble that SJ's inefficiency has given him.

I would also suggest he shouldn't have posted on a public forum if he is considering a legal response.

I dont think he should. It is their error for not taking the money, correctly, in time. It wasnt a loan, it was a payment, and if they dont claim that payment, that's their problem.

knowall - all great information, but all almost totally irrelevant to the situation the op finds himself in.

sorry

I dont think they would take you to court either. Most likely, they would put your account onto a debt collection agency, who would try to contact you. If they did that you could either ignore the letters until they give up, which is quite likely, or reply to them and tell them to dispute it with your bank.

Correct.

Who is scared of a debt collector?Tell them to fcuk off if they ever turn up.

The only thing you have to worry about is a bad credit rating.Big deal,don't use credit anyway.Saves you money in the long run.

FFS Bottom line OP you made the bets.......you owe whatever your losses total end of.Did you at any point receive funds back into your account from a winning bet?

Btw knowall is Gib still an Island of debauchery and piss artists?

Personally, I would try to reach a compromise.

In your favour:

*They are registered in Gib so legally they may have problems trying to recover the money in a different jurisdiction

*They must have been in the wrong when they dipped into your bank account without prior warning because they refunded you when your bank intervened - they wouldn't have done this out otherwise.

*The lack of control over their own systems went on over a period of time. A glitch in the system is acceptable but if it went on for longer then you could argue that this problem was caused by their own incompetence, and that any responsible company should have realised their mistake much earlier and all this should have been avoided. In essence they are partly responsible (as are you for not checking your statements).

*Recovery of this money would leave you financially in the s*** because you thought you had more money in the bank than you actually have etc etc


Not in you favour

You have been placing bets but have not payed for them.



I would suggest writing to them outlining that you think they are partly responsible for this situation. Give them the reasons why. Then say you would like make them an offer of 30% (an opening offer!!) as a full and final settlement. See what they say. Increase the offer over a week or two.

If they won't budge after all this, wait and see if they get a debt agency in. If they do throw in the towel and offer them the full payment in the smallest installments you can get away with OVER the longest period of time you can get away with.

ROFL..........you should all be called to the bar..........not to take silk..........buy a fukcing beer.

There would be more fukcwits hung on this forum if they brought back hanging than King Dings topping themselves on Newmarket Heath after an AOB shock result.

aerobicengine,....... you...... should.......... listen.. to.. GT-MOLE..... .............................................................................................

Has...... GT.... got..... a.......d..o....t.....st.u.t.er......................

He............is............a ..............mad..............man................hth........

N....A.......P.....

And so the story ended with a pair of gormless ****wits with only laz luv as a rival.

.....................................................

.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

FUKCWITS.

BTW the............is to make it easier for the dyslexic and autistic.........you should be grateful.hth

Penzance you have chosen a strange path?

Betting on poker or cancer tonight TT?

............................................................................................................

..........S.t...an...g.e......p...a...t.h...........

****...............................................................................................

CANCER or POKER TT what are you punting on?

GT....what da f'ck are you on...........................................horse.

F....................................C.............................U...........

Last count, 6 since last year since you ask.

I fear GT is on the verge of........................a break down...............really.he has now lost his DOTs.

L................U......N...................A...........T........I.............

C...............................

..... oh dear, GT, you have made my night......................

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ..........................................

Almost the anniversary of my ex wife dying of cancer sooty,almost the anniversary of TT being fukced up for being a sicko.

Happy now?

HE..............................IS....................A...........................CRASHING................................BORE.................................................

Weirdo.....................................

Maybe TT but I am not a sicko taking the piss out of your family dying am I?

Is that a threat?.......................................Have not a clue what you are talking about...............................FACT..................

Would you like the threads brought to the top or will you go crying again?

YOU HAVE GOT ME CONFUSED...........

You beat me to it you sicko.

GT. its nearly the aniversary of your EX wife dying of cancer, EX.your not well, were did you dig that up from, EX.TT, i dont think he on the same planet as us, good night, he's confused.

I...............never.............cry...................FACT..............

SANITY SOOTY..............AT .LAST....NIGHT.

Are you the same pair sooty YSDC...........you cant erase your posts btw.Sicko fukcing twatt*.

G.T,on a serious note,you asked the other night why the night shift had gone to rats.The reason is that you abuse and threaten everyone.Otherwise it would be good craic.

Wrong TT you are a seriously sick individual,is it just coincidence that you attack me
on a thread? So similar to the piss take of my family dying last year from cancer?

You under estimate me........ask Skinto if I look like a down and out that forgets shi* like you.

6 at the last count as YOU know TT.

I have a laugh with the best........YOU crossed the line.

You are a total lunatic,everyone knows it.I have never taken the piss out of your family you nutter.If i have,prove it.Guess what?you can't because it never happened,only in your sick mind.

You have a serious problem.Sort it out.

Don't waste any more of my time.

Elise who is a normal,non confrontational person had you banned........with support or do I lie?

Really,news to me,what for exactly?

You need help puppy...........big time........wheres your puppet gone?


Sooty has even left you.......you should have had your finger up a bit further imvo.

You come on here every day and make a fool of yourself.That's why you only come out at night.

I dont even bother puppy dog........no point........you will still be a sicko next week.

If i am a sicko,god knows what that makes you.

If i put up a thread asking people if they thought you were a sane and reasonable person i would get about 2 replys supporting you.

From your other usernames.

I rarely come on during the day honey pup and not that often at all really.........in March I was in Egypt (Alexandria) Syria (Damascus) Cyprus (Lefkosia/Larnaka/Pafos)......Fakenham  and then Yarmouth.

Skinto met me..........ask him?

Good for you.Tell me this,why do you attack virtually everyone on here?

Put you post up sicko.........I will accept the results.

why the fack would you go to great yarmouth ?

Listen,you are a man in self denial.When you are sober,look back on your postings and ask yourself if you are sane.If you think you are then you are insane.

Post is up pup.

Cancer is like rust.........never sleeps........always eating away.

Anyone remember the horse named RUST NEVER SLEEPS? A similar named one won a couple of years ago.

On the Steve Dennis blog on RP it was mentioned so a £10 was put on at 8/1........it won............Mac Mil nurses were £80 better off.

dont pay them back.

they had an awful cheek taking the money off you without notice.

reminds me of the time i got a cheque in the post for a "winning bet"

it was a CL qualifying round match and it ended 1-1 after 90 mins, my accum lost,   then my team scored in extra time to win 2-1 and qualify for the CL...............bookie settled the bet as a winner.............i kept all the money and changed my cards.

never bet with him or heard from him again, he never noticed it i guess.

he too was restricting me, before i won a penny from him!!!!

Name a Welching bookie Snorki...........you and losers like you have killed trust.nap

don't pay a penny NAP
ignore all letters ie straight into bin
on the minute chance they take you to court (about zero) you can argue that any winning bets would have been void because no payment was recieved

ps use another bookie from now on

1.01 that's my course of action Bubba. What i've learned about the legal basis they have to reclaim the money in the last 24 hours has made me think they don't have much sway in this situation. Won't be betting with them again regardless, 8 cent each way at 9-1 just doesn't do it for me!

Good choice.

I'm back having had a couple of pints at the seaside..

Pay that firm nothing..In fact I would be amazed if that rancid outfit will even exist in a couple of years.They cannot have a plan if all winners are banned after a couple of bets and they cannot even collect the money off losers.

The Chickens have come home to roost......