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Listening to the English interviews and how you guys still aren't convinced about this is like wtf?
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Why has what she has achieved 20 straight wins undefeated only been done once in 200 years, if it is so easy to do?
I don't know the stats on worldwide winning streaks,i will look it up.But can you tell me why she didn't win a group 1 race until her third season?
I mean F/F/S how many horses have raced around the world in 200 years.....1 million 2 million? 5 million? LOL yet only 2 have achieved 20 wins undefeated. But you reckon its easy done by simply placing your horse in the right races.
Aussies should be concentrating on how easily she wins and her obvious ability rather than the amount of races she has won because the group/grade one thing always comes up, I think ten have been group ones?
Other super fillies Goldikova and Zenyatta won 14 and 13 group ones.
She is an amazing animal, the best sprinter on the planet by a mile and the best sprinter we have seen for a very long time and I really hope she wins at Royal Ascot, if she doesn't aussie racing (which I'm a fan of btw) will receive a monster blow and have the piss ripped for decades.
Other super fillies Goldikova and Zenyatta won 14 and 13 group ones.
She is an amazing animal, the best sprinter on the planet by a mile and the best sprinter we have seen for a very long time and I really hope she wins at Royal Ascot, if she doesn't aussie racing (which I'm a fan of btw) will receive a monster blow and have the piss ripped for decades.
AFL,as all aussies lose the argument and descend into nonsense.
F/F/S....why haven't trainers avoided the Gp1's to notch the winners then, why haven't more horses achieved this feat by taking that route? If it is so easy to win races as long as they are not Gp 1's? Why have not a hundred horses in history done it that way? You know why................................
because it is so damm hard to do Gp 1's or not.
because it is so damm hard to do Gp 1's or not.
Black Caviar is head and shoulders above the European sprinters. Unfortunately everything for us is focused at classic distance. An improving handicapper can quite easily move up the rankings and become a top 6f horse over, but would be highly unlikely over a 8f-12f.
So the door is open for a classic sprinter such as Black Caviar. It will be nice for us British to see the horse. She is wonderful but the ultimate sprinting test for her would be in America.
So the door is open for a classic sprinter such as Black Caviar. It will be nice for us British to see the horse. She is wonderful but the ultimate sprinting test for her would be in America.
sadly the use of drugs in the US wont make that viable.
you can then understand why the americans rarely attempt the Global Sprint Challenge.
The Global Sprint Challenge consists of ten horse races at Group 1 level across six countries, with a US$1 million bonus if a horse wins Group 1 races in three different countries
The first Challenge was won by Cape of Good Hope who was trained in Hong Kong, but since then Australian horses have done extraordinarily well winning in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009. 2010 winner Starspangledbanner was an Australian import too.
•2005 Cape of Good Hope (HK)
•2006 Takeover Target (Aus)
•2007 Miss Andretti (Aus)
•2008 Apache Cat (Aus)
•2009 Scenic Blast (Aus)
•2010 Starspangledbanner (UK)
explains i suppose the domination the australian bred sprinters have world wide, like the european stayers dominate at their distance.
you can then understand why the americans rarely attempt the Global Sprint Challenge.
The Global Sprint Challenge consists of ten horse races at Group 1 level across six countries, with a US$1 million bonus if a horse wins Group 1 races in three different countries
The first Challenge was won by Cape of Good Hope who was trained in Hong Kong, but since then Australian horses have done extraordinarily well winning in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009. 2010 winner Starspangledbanner was an Australian import too.
•2005 Cape of Good Hope (HK)
•2006 Takeover Target (Aus)
•2007 Miss Andretti (Aus)
•2008 Apache Cat (Aus)
•2009 Scenic Blast (Aus)
•2010 Starspangledbanner (UK)
explains i suppose the domination the australian bred sprinters have world wide, like the european stayers dominate at their distance.
I don't know what was said in those interviews but my own take on it is that she still has something to prove. No doubt she is a top class sprinter and may well go on to prove those thing when given the opportunity but until she does then only certain claims are valid regarding her, those being that she is the best in Australia but then again so was So You think.
As for the excuses regarding So You Think there was nothing wrong with the way the horse was trained and good as he is he just wasn't quite good enough. O'Brien has had similar types through his stable over the years and has won just about every race bar the US and UAE races SYT has been beaten in since he joined him and knows both the type of horse and the training routine needed to win those and if SYT can finish 3rd when pulling and without settling for a good part of the Melbourne Cup, then I'm sure he can get 10f or 12f easily enough over here. Every excuse going was offered for his defeats by the Aussie members on here despite being ridden when beaten exactly as he was ridden when previously winning and often the excuses contradicted the last one with one race a jockey being criticised for going too soon and then in the next for not going soon enough, or being held up off the pace.
As for the constant cherry-picking about the so called dominance of Aussie sprinters over here, yes they have had some success but there have been far more failures with plenty of horses coming over and winning nothing and even the ones that won were subsequently beaten again and often by the same horses they had previously beaten but that's the nature of sprints where they tend to take their turn in winning. You may just as well say European horses have dominated the Melbourne Cup because they have won it a few times too but that would be an equally laughable claim.
As for the The Global Sprint Challenge well I wouldn't put too much substance to that when you consider that only 3 of the 10 races are run in England/Europe with the other 7 being 2 each in Australia and Japan, and 1 each in Dubai, Hong Kong and Singapore, all 7 of which I would imagine are more likely targets for the Aussie horses if only for geographical reasons than for the European ones and it's not as if the winners each year run in all 10 anyway and how many races do you need to win to be called the The Global Sprint Challenge winner, one, two? It's a largely meaningless title considering Starspangledbanner raced 8 times in 2010 winning only 3 times but 2 of those were back to back wins in Global Sprint races and then in his very next race was beaten 1¼L by a 100/1 shot that has only won once in 11 starts since then and was last season beaten 11L by Dream Ahead.
Add to that some of the Aussie members like to pick and mix the allegiance of a horses, so for example SYT is an Aussie horse despite being by an Irish stallion and out of a NZ mare but they will then attach claims to horses like Excelebration because he's by an Aussie stallion. Well in that case Takeover Target is by Celtic Swing (GB and trained in England), Miss Andretti is by Ihtiram (IRE and trained in England), Apache Cat is by Lion Cavern (USA and trained in France) and Scenic Blast is by Scenic (GB and trained in England) but of course they are all Aussie horses and Europe has no real claim on them just as Australia has no real claim on any horses by Exceed and Excel that are trained outside of Australia.
As for the excuses regarding So You Think there was nothing wrong with the way the horse was trained and good as he is he just wasn't quite good enough. O'Brien has had similar types through his stable over the years and has won just about every race bar the US and UAE races SYT has been beaten in since he joined him and knows both the type of horse and the training routine needed to win those and if SYT can finish 3rd when pulling and without settling for a good part of the Melbourne Cup, then I'm sure he can get 10f or 12f easily enough over here. Every excuse going was offered for his defeats by the Aussie members on here despite being ridden when beaten exactly as he was ridden when previously winning and often the excuses contradicted the last one with one race a jockey being criticised for going too soon and then in the next for not going soon enough, or being held up off the pace.
As for the constant cherry-picking about the so called dominance of Aussie sprinters over here, yes they have had some success but there have been far more failures with plenty of horses coming over and winning nothing and even the ones that won were subsequently beaten again and often by the same horses they had previously beaten but that's the nature of sprints where they tend to take their turn in winning. You may just as well say European horses have dominated the Melbourne Cup because they have won it a few times too but that would be an equally laughable claim.
As for the The Global Sprint Challenge well I wouldn't put too much substance to that when you consider that only 3 of the 10 races are run in England/Europe with the other 7 being 2 each in Australia and Japan, and 1 each in Dubai, Hong Kong and Singapore, all 7 of which I would imagine are more likely targets for the Aussie horses if only for geographical reasons than for the European ones and it's not as if the winners each year run in all 10 anyway and how many races do you need to win to be called the The Global Sprint Challenge winner, one, two? It's a largely meaningless title considering Starspangledbanner raced 8 times in 2010 winning only 3 times but 2 of those were back to back wins in Global Sprint races and then in his very next race was beaten 1¼L by a 100/1 shot that has only won once in 11 starts since then and was last season beaten 11L by Dream Ahead.
Add to that some of the Aussie members like to pick and mix the allegiance of a horses, so for example SYT is an Aussie horse despite being by an Irish stallion and out of a NZ mare but they will then attach claims to horses like Excelebration because he's by an Aussie stallion. Well in that case Takeover Target is by Celtic Swing (GB and trained in England), Miss Andretti is by Ihtiram (IRE and trained in England), Apache Cat is by Lion Cavern (USA and trained in France) and Scenic Blast is by Scenic (GB and trained in England) but of course they are all Aussie horses and Europe has no real claim on them just as Australia has no real claim on any horses by Exceed and Excel that are trained outside of Australia.
I don't know what was said in those interviews but my own take on it is that she still has something to prove ???
take off your british drape ima_mazed, the queen wont knight you
shows you know nothing about world class sprinters. As somebody described earlier, she makes top fields look second rate and when she isnt running these races are exciting to watch.
your own racing peers ( trainers ) have knowledged she's a class they havent witness before in sprints
take off your british drape ima_mazed, the queen wont knight you
shows you know nothing about world class sprinters. As somebody described earlier, she makes top fields look second rate and when she isnt running these races are exciting to watch.
your own racing peers ( trainers ) have knowledged she's a class they havent witness before in sprints
ima_mazed, this thread was a entertaining thread no arguements like ours is better than yours,but you had to put on your british cap and spoil things
you mention sires to australian sprinters, maybe if you look at the distance these sires raced at, you will see the breeders in australia want stamina with explosive pace that the australian mares have in their decades of breeding.
dont fear the unknown as you seem to. and dont knock your own sprinter of the year, Starspangledbanner. yes he won your award !!
it seems the mating of Galileo to the Danehill broodmare whose side of the family produces the explosive speed gave birth to Frankel, Danehill was US bred.
Takeover Target (AUS)
• 13-y-o (27Sep99 b g)
• Celtic Swing (9.4f) — Shady Stream (AUS)
Scenic Blast (AUS)
• 8-y-o (29Aug04 b/br g)
• Scenic (9.9f) — Daughter´s Charm (AUS)•
Miss Andretti (AUS)
• 11-y-o (01Aug01 b m)
• Ihtiram (IRE) — Peggie´s Bid (AUS)
Apache Cat (AUS)
• 10-y-o (13Oct02 ch g)
• Lion Cavern (USA) (7.8f) — Tennessee Blaze (AUS)
you mention sires to australian sprinters, maybe if you look at the distance these sires raced at, you will see the breeders in australia want stamina with explosive pace that the australian mares have in their decades of breeding.
dont fear the unknown as you seem to. and dont knock your own sprinter of the year, Starspangledbanner. yes he won your award !!
it seems the mating of Galileo to the Danehill broodmare whose side of the family produces the explosive speed gave birth to Frankel, Danehill was US bred.
Takeover Target (AUS)
• 13-y-o (27Sep99 b g)
• Celtic Swing (9.4f) — Shady Stream (AUS)
Scenic Blast (AUS)
• 8-y-o (29Aug04 b/br g)
• Scenic (9.9f) — Daughter´s Charm (AUS)•
Miss Andretti (AUS)
• 11-y-o (01Aug01 b m)
• Ihtiram (IRE) — Peggie´s Bid (AUS)
Apache Cat (AUS)
• 10-y-o (13Oct02 ch g)
• Lion Cavern (USA) (7.8f) — Tennessee Blaze (AUS)
So if I know nothing about world class sprinters then was I wrong then when clearly stating and I quote myself here?
No doubt she is a top class sprinter.......
If she also has nothing to prove then perhaps you could tell us how many times she's won outside of Australia? She might well be world class but despite what some think, Australia isn't the world just as So You Think found out and until Black Caviar wins elsewhere she still has something to prove. That's not to say she can't or won't but just that she hasn't done so up until now.
No doubt she is a top class sprinter.......
If she also has nothing to prove then perhaps you could tell us how many times she's won outside of Australia? She might well be world class but despite what some think, Australia isn't the world just as So You Think found out and until Black Caviar wins elsewhere she still has something to prove. That's not to say she can't or won't but just that she hasn't done so up until now.
^ This is 100% correct. I for one expect her to win even more easily against our handicappers than she has been winning in better races in Australia, but she has not proved herself outside of Australia. Until she actually comes here and does it, I will take one foot off the gas before proclaiming her the best I've ever seen.
I'm pretty sure Dayjur was a sensationally good sprinter. What about Oasis Dream - am I the only one that thinks he would have beaten her? His Nunthorpe win was savage.
You just never know at this stage of the season whether a once-in-a-decade British sprinter will emerge from the three-year-old pack, and if Black Caviar does not run to her best after a long flight and not much time to acclimatise to the **** UK weather (which would be perfectly understandable by the way), that could be enough to beat her.
I'm pretty sure Dayjur was a sensationally good sprinter. What about Oasis Dream - am I the only one that thinks he would have beaten her? His Nunthorpe win was savage.
You just never know at this stage of the season whether a once-in-a-decade British sprinter will emerge from the three-year-old pack, and if Black Caviar does not run to her best after a long flight and not much time to acclimatise to the **** UK weather (which would be perfectly understandable by the way), that could be enough to beat her.
firstly, SYT has and never will be in BC's class. why SYT is being brought up in this thread only you would.
2ndly, those who have ventured to your shores in past years wouldnt get within coeeeeeee of her and thats agreed by the trainers of miss andretti, take over target who both agreed that BC would pick up and tow these 2 over the finish line.
3rdly you said.
If she also has nothing to prove then perhaps you could tell us how many times she's won outside of Australia?
well i ask you, seeing your wear your british drape.
why hasnt Frankel gone overseas to prove himself ??
you are so full of it.
2ndly, those who have ventured to your shores in past years wouldnt get within coeeeeeee of her and thats agreed by the trainers of miss andretti, take over target who both agreed that BC would pick up and tow these 2 over the finish line.
3rdly you said.
If she also has nothing to prove then perhaps you could tell us how many times she's won outside of Australia?
well i ask you, seeing your wear your british drape.
why hasnt Frankel gone overseas to prove himself ??
you are so full of it.
does frankel have to prove himself against handicaps?
a big NO...cant have it all your way.
a big NO...cant have it all your way.
how can you people say she's racing against the same horses and they aren't very good, listen very carefully, read it 3 times, do what you gotta do but make sure you comprehend it:
Hay List would beat ANY sprinter you got.
Hay List can NOT beat Black Caviar.
now I hope you understand
Hay List would beat ANY sprinter you got.
Hay List can NOT beat Black Caviar.
now I hope you understand
dont get so wound up about it educeee. the more people that think she still has something to prove the better the price will be next month.
We can fill our boots at odds against.
I'm an englishman living in melbourne so think i have a fair handle on the form from both hemispheres.
The other bet my well be to double her up with Foxwedge in the kings stand, i reckon a big field charging down the ascot straight course will be ideal for him just a little concerned by that effort in Sydney last time when there were no obvious excuses. But any horse that can beat Haylist should be odds on to win a run of the mill kings stand imo.
We can fill our boots at odds against.
I'm an englishman living in melbourne so think i have a fair handle on the form from both hemispheres.
The other bet my well be to double her up with Foxwedge in the kings stand, i reckon a big field charging down the ascot straight course will be ideal for him just a little concerned by that effort in Sydney last time when there were no obvious excuses. But any horse that can beat Haylist should be odds on to win a run of the mill kings stand imo.
just like to let all you aussies know, our king stand and jubilee is group 1 in title only, its really a group 3 standard race for past ten years or more, our sprinters are useless , i doubt there is a sprinter in uk thats won more than two consecutive races.
You Aussies were going on about SYT as if he was a world beater and telling us all of the Group 1s the horse had won, even though some of those were handicaps and we were telling you we don't have Group 1 handicaps here and out genuine Group 1 standard horses would be seen in handicaps and especially not carrying 8st 11lbs so that's why I mention SYT.
The Frankel not having raced overseas is a fair point sooty1 and I'm happy to say (mainly because it's a fact) that the horse still has something to prove and has still to show it has the ability to win a race outside of England and when having to travel is one of them. I'm not the one who does the cherry picking so exactly in which way am I full of it?
If I wanted to play Devil's Advocate though I could point out that Frankel has beaten both horses from other countries and horse from England that have gone oversea and won and so you at least get an idea of how he stands compared to the best in a few other countries? I ask this question as I genuinely don't know but can look it up but has Black Caviar beaent any horse other than Aussie ones?
Is the "Hay List would beat any sprinter you got" comment you just spouting stuff off the top of your head educeee or did you have any specific horses in mind? Do you even know which is our best sprinter?
The Frankel not having raced overseas is a fair point sooty1 and I'm happy to say (mainly because it's a fact) that the horse still has something to prove and has still to show it has the ability to win a race outside of England and when having to travel is one of them. I'm not the one who does the cherry picking so exactly in which way am I full of it?
If I wanted to play Devil's Advocate though I could point out that Frankel has beaten both horses from other countries and horse from England that have gone oversea and won and so you at least get an idea of how he stands compared to the best in a few other countries? I ask this question as I genuinely don't know but can look it up but has Black Caviar beaent any horse other than Aussie ones?
Is the "Hay List would beat any sprinter you got" comment you just spouting stuff off the top of your head educeee or did you have any specific horses in mind? Do you even know which is our best sprinter?
aussie sprinters are the best in the world and i think haylist probably would beat anything we have.
Rocket man has to be considered a world class sprinter but then he started off in aus too
Rocket man has to be considered a world class sprinter but then he started off in aus too
I just get sick of hearing the same thing.. "oh she's made to look better then she is because she keeps beating the same horses"
yet, one of those same horses she beat went to Ascot last year and was very competitive, but of course she spanked him every time, beaten 4L in 2 runs in the 2010 season and it'd be fair to say she's come on since then
name me the sprinter capable of beating BC, just like our stayers are inferior to yours, your sprinters are inferior to ours, you need to accept it and move on
it's not a fluke we produce these superstars
yet, one of those same horses she beat went to Ascot last year and was very competitive, but of course she spanked him every time, beaten 4L in 2 runs in the 2010 season and it'd be fair to say she's come on since then
name me the sprinter capable of beating BC, just like our stayers are inferior to yours, your sprinters are inferior to ours, you need to accept it and move on
it's not a fluke we produce these superstars
Prohibit beat Star Witness at Ascot, Prohibit was beaten 8L behind Ortensia in Dubai
now let me assure you, Ortensia is a good horse but would never be mentioned in the same breathe as Hay List or Black Caviar, I know there was a long time between the Star Witness/Ortensia races but it has to be said, if Prohibit is the horse winning one of your feature sprints, surely that's the benchmark
based on what happened in Dubai, it's not much of a benchmark
now let me assure you, Ortensia is a good horse but would never be mentioned in the same breathe as Hay List or Black Caviar, I know there was a long time between the Star Witness/Ortensia races but it has to be said, if Prohibit is the horse winning one of your feature sprints, surely that's the benchmark
based on what happened in Dubai, it's not much of a benchmark
hurricane fly would be winning group 1 sprints in corkhatland imo.
I would have thought a bigger issue would be the race has thrown 4 shockers since the course has been changed at Ascot.
I just get the feeling something similar will happen terribel draw bias she beats her side ofthe field by 10 lengths and something drawn onthe other side runs on a stip of ground way faster than the rest of the course showing form well beyond anything before and it does after and wins.
Probably another Australian horse too.
I just get the feeling something similar will happen terribel draw bias she beats her side ofthe field by 10 lengths and something drawn onthe other side runs on a stip of ground way faster than the rest of the course showing form well beyond anything before and it does after and wins.
Probably another Australian horse too.
I am surprised we dont have more top class sprinters from our classic crop. We had Dream Ahead last year and Oasis Dream a while back with ratings around the 125 mark. Dayjur and Green Desert if we do back a bit further were the best i have seen on these shores. So not many in depth. Dayjur v Black Caviar would have been something to savour.
educeee
it's not a fluke we produce these superstars
When have you ever? Phar Lap?
And one isolated bit of form doesn't mean a thing and when Prohibit was beaten 8L behind Ortensia in Dubai the 2nd that day beaten 1¼L was Sole Power, the same horse that previously had beaten Starspangledbanner when 100/1 but had also finished 8th behind Prohibit at Ascot but neither of those would be likely to be considered as good as Deacon Blues or Dream Ahead but one I think I read is out for the season with an injury and the other was retired.
it's not a fluke we produce these superstars
When have you ever? Phar Lap?
And one isolated bit of form doesn't mean a thing and when Prohibit was beaten 8L behind Ortensia in Dubai the 2nd that day beaten 1¼L was Sole Power, the same horse that previously had beaten Starspangledbanner when 100/1 but had also finished 8th behind Prohibit at Ascot but neither of those would be likely to be considered as good as Deacon Blues or Dream Ahead but one I think I read is out for the season with an injury and the other was retired.
Once a jolly swagman camped by a billabong. I think that says it all! Frankel would destroy her at all distances up to ten furlongs!. ( Only the Swagmen think differently, and Dreamtime isn't for real!)
Has a better ring to it.
God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save BC:
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save BC
frankel to destroy her at all distances yeah right
God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save BC:
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save BC
frankel to destroy her at all distances yeah right
Its a shame she isnt entered for a proper G1 at Ascot. Go on take the easy route. Surely she should be able to beat our horses at a mile. She is a wonder horse after all!
I was in Melbourne in jan-feb, saw Black Caviar winning 3 times in a 3 weeks never seen anything like it, easily the fastest and best horse in the world. cheers.
you mugs are deluded patriots saying Frankel will beat her ALL distances up to 10f
she's made her name as a sprinter, why should she have to push out to a mile? she's got nothing to prove, she's won 20 in a row, the ONLY thing left for her to do now is dominate the sport at an international level, you lot should pack into Ascot to see the world champion, best you'll ever see over the distance, get there and appreciate it
what's Frankel done? barely gone out of his own age group, he's bred to go further, has he gone further?
Frankel has it all to do, she's done all there is to do, going to England is an after thought given she can't really achieve much more back at home, just win alot of prize money I guess
she's made her name as a sprinter, why should she have to push out to a mile? she's got nothing to prove, she's won 20 in a row, the ONLY thing left for her to do now is dominate the sport at an international level, you lot should pack into Ascot to see the world champion, best you'll ever see over the distance, get there and appreciate it
what's Frankel done? barely gone out of his own age group, he's bred to go further, has he gone further?
Frankel has it all to do, she's done all there is to do, going to England is an after thought given she can't really achieve much more back at home, just win alot of prize money I guess
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW6r-_OJ45Q
This effort was monumental, Hay List threw everything at her, that was the day she went under 10 seconds for the sectional (never done before), she was backing up from 7f to 6f in the space of a week, not easy to do
This effort was monumental, Hay List threw everything at her, that was the day she went under 10 seconds for the sectional (never done before), she was backing up from 7f to 6f in the space of a week, not easy to do
Bloody hell,an aussie invasion,and they talk about us ruining their forum.
i don't think that anyone in their right mind could think that BC would have any kind of chance against frankel over a mile, the subject doesn't even deserve a debate, on the SYT issue, unlike BC he came over and raced in a division where the europeans are on a different planet ability wise compared to the aussies, so it was no surprise that he was not a world beater,G1 horse most deserving he is though.
SYT vs Frankel over a mile, Aiden.. let him run, let him go
let's see what Frankel's got
let's see what Frankel's got
Frankels form is much superior to anything else in Europe over a mile. When the European horses go to the Breeders Cup we dominate on the turf. Therefore it is safe to say Frankel is the best turf miler in the world as his rating suggests. Which is probably why Peter Moody has not trained Black Caviar to race at a mile. I am sure after Ascot that connections will say that she has now proven herself in a G1 at Ascot but take Black Caviar out of the race and it is a pi$$ poor line up as usual in the Diamond Jubilee Stakes.
Filante does talk a lot of bóllox for someone who only joined yesterday.
take Black Caviar out of the race and it is a pi$$ poor line up as usual in the Diamond Jubilee Stakes.
you have your BATED BREATH AND HOOF IT, you have the japanese champion sprinter coming, Hong Kong Global Sprint Challenge winner coming. add in the highest rated sprinting 3 yr old in the world coming in Sepoy, Foxwedge is also coming ( beat 2nd best sprinter in the world hay list ) dubai group 1 sprint winner,ortensia is coming
thats right, they are all avoiding BLACK CAVIAR and running in the king stand.
must tell you something if she's being avoided by other trainers.
your own trainers are in awe of her. seems only a few thread rednecks like nothing more than to think otherwise.
watch sepoy in the king stand. the forgotten horse. better horse around turns, but a very very good horse.
and Black Caviar is lens better on a straight track than around a corner.
you have your BATED BREATH AND HOOF IT, you have the japanese champion sprinter coming, Hong Kong Global Sprint Challenge winner coming. add in the highest rated sprinting 3 yr old in the world coming in Sepoy, Foxwedge is also coming ( beat 2nd best sprinter in the world hay list ) dubai group 1 sprint winner,ortensia is coming
thats right, they are all avoiding BLACK CAVIAR and running in the king stand.
must tell you something if she's being avoided by other trainers.
your own trainers are in awe of her. seems only a few thread rednecks like nothing more than to think otherwise.
watch sepoy in the king stand. the forgotten horse. better horse around turns, but a very very good horse.
and Black Caviar is lens better on a straight track than around a corner.
Hi racing guys in Australia. I'm looking forward to seeing Black Caviar run in UK. Just watched her run at Muppetville on Youtube. Lovely ! Also very impressed with your floodlights over there. Hope she will do as well in afternoon racing over here. Good luck with it (or should that be G'day?)
Black Caviar's a cracking horse,just enjoy her.
Looking forward to her running here,tbh.
Looking forward to her running here,tbh.
ROFL...........they are all running in the King Stand to avoid her
YSDC Sooty.................she is avoiding THEM.nap
YSDC Sooty.................she is avoiding THEM.nap
Sooty,i see you have still not educated yourself properly.
you have your BATED BREATH AND HOOF IT,
Hoof It - the amazing improved handicapper
Bated Breath - the 118 rated wonder horse
Black Caviar is a wonderful horse but there are no class horses in the Diamond Jubilee Stakes. So calm the fluck down when she wins it!
..
Hoof It - the amazing improved handicapper
Bated Breath - the 118 rated wonder horse
Black Caviar is a wonderful horse but there are no class horses in the Diamond Jubilee Stakes. So calm the fluck down when she wins it!
..
educeee
she's made her name as a sprinter, why should she have to push out to a mile? she's got nothing to prove, she's won 20 in a row, the ONLY thing left for her to do now is dominate the sport at an international level, you lot should pack into Ascot to see the world champion, best you'll ever see over the distance, get there and appreciate it
what's Frankel done? barely gone out of his own age group, he's bred to go further, has he gone further?
Frankel has it all to do, she's done all there is to do, going to England is an after thought given she can't really achieve much more back at home, just win alot of prize money I guess
I seem to be arguing with yourself there and that's the very point I've been making but that seems to have gone over your head. She has loads to prove internationally, she only has nothing to prove in Australia but then much the same could have been said about SYT and then I'm asked why bring SYT into it.
Frankel has something to prove too but it doesn't mean he can't or won't and both he and Black Caviar are outstanding horses but still have to show they can achieve certain things that they have up until now not done so. Messi is the best footballer (proper football) in the world but would still have to prove he could do it in England playing in winter conditions on pitches not like a carpet for 38 games a season, plus cups and CL games and he might well be able to but until he does he still has to prove that he can.
People should consider though that Frankel has won at other than just a mile, on a straight course and around a turn, from the front all the way, coming from behind, off a fast pace or held up and quickening from behind and on a number of courses some with certain idiosyncrasies like Goodwood and on a range of ground conditions and of course he's barely run outside of his age group but he's only been in training 2 season and had a 2YO campaign for the first and a classic age campaign for the second, but as soon as he went up against older horses he made in Canford Cliffs one of the best milers for years and a horse multi-classic and group 1 winning trainer Richard Hannon stated was the best he had ever trained in 40 years.....I'm not saying Black Caviar is one dimensional either but just countering some if you silly claims about Frankel and what you seem unaware of is that I've never been uncomplimentary about Black Caviar.
You also say:
what's Frankel done? barely gone out of his own age group, he's bred to go further, has he gone further?
as if that's to his detriment but if anything it just shows you how good he really is if he can beat the best at a distance that might not even be his best but it is theirs.
As for the horses supposedly avoiding Black Caviar at Ascot, first we don't know for sure which races they will run in but secondly she probably has a stronger chance of beating them at 5f anyway and if you look at the previous success the Aussie horse had coming over here then most has been at 5f and they were generally put in their place over 6f but that gets overlooked when cherry-picking. How many 6f races have Aussie horses won over here?
she's made her name as a sprinter, why should she have to push out to a mile? she's got nothing to prove, she's won 20 in a row, the ONLY thing left for her to do now is dominate the sport at an international level, you lot should pack into Ascot to see the world champion, best you'll ever see over the distance, get there and appreciate it
what's Frankel done? barely gone out of his own age group, he's bred to go further, has he gone further?
Frankel has it all to do, she's done all there is to do, going to England is an after thought given she can't really achieve much more back at home, just win alot of prize money I guess
I seem to be arguing with yourself there and that's the very point I've been making but that seems to have gone over your head. She has loads to prove internationally, she only has nothing to prove in Australia but then much the same could have been said about SYT and then I'm asked why bring SYT into it.
Frankel has something to prove too but it doesn't mean he can't or won't and both he and Black Caviar are outstanding horses but still have to show they can achieve certain things that they have up until now not done so. Messi is the best footballer (proper football) in the world but would still have to prove he could do it in England playing in winter conditions on pitches not like a carpet for 38 games a season, plus cups and CL games and he might well be able to but until he does he still has to prove that he can.
People should consider though that Frankel has won at other than just a mile, on a straight course and around a turn, from the front all the way, coming from behind, off a fast pace or held up and quickening from behind and on a number of courses some with certain idiosyncrasies like Goodwood and on a range of ground conditions and of course he's barely run outside of his age group but he's only been in training 2 season and had a 2YO campaign for the first and a classic age campaign for the second, but as soon as he went up against older horses he made in Canford Cliffs one of the best milers for years and a horse multi-classic and group 1 winning trainer Richard Hannon stated was the best he had ever trained in 40 years.....I'm not saying Black Caviar is one dimensional either but just countering some if you silly claims about Frankel and what you seem unaware of is that I've never been uncomplimentary about Black Caviar.
You also say:
what's Frankel done? barely gone out of his own age group, he's bred to go further, has he gone further?
as if that's to his detriment but if anything it just shows you how good he really is if he can beat the best at a distance that might not even be his best but it is theirs.
As for the horses supposedly avoiding Black Caviar at Ascot, first we don't know for sure which races they will run in but secondly she probably has a stronger chance of beating them at 5f anyway and if you look at the previous success the Aussie horse had coming over here then most has been at 5f and they were generally put in their place over 6f but that gets overlooked when cherry-picking. How many 6f races have Aussie horses won over here?
How many 6f races have Aussie horses won over here?
i ask the question, how many australian milers have come to england in the last dozen years and won.
2 from 2 if im correct and both in group 1's after both running 3rd in what you have in the past degraded the quality of the Cox Plate, Australia's presitge WFA race.
but its not about who has the best, or is it ima???
Australian trainers travelling abroad to england with sprinters is still in its infancy and growing,most horses in the past were not the best in australia and continually won or placed.
appreciate that some really good horse flesh is heading your way during their off season with wooley coats and its a long long way to travel. it can only make your racing better having the privelige to see these powerfully muscled beasts line up against your leaner types
as sooty said, take off your british drape ima
i ask the question, how many australian milers have come to england in the last dozen years and won.
2 from 2 if im correct and both in group 1's after both running 3rd in what you have in the past degraded the quality of the Cox Plate, Australia's presitge WFA race.
but its not about who has the best, or is it ima???
Australian trainers travelling abroad to england with sprinters is still in its infancy and growing,most horses in the past were not the best in australia and continually won or placed.
appreciate that some really good horse flesh is heading your way during their off season with wooley coats and its a long long way to travel. it can only make your racing better having the privelige to see these powerfully muscled beasts line up against your leaner types
as sooty said, take off your british drape ima
You need some new material,you have ripped your dress.
Max mug thinks he is immune to justice because he lives in ************,wrong justice can be meted by anyone.......anywhere........anytime.
Hi guys from Aus, (G'day mates). I can provide you with lovely English horse carrots. I get a sack for £2 but will have to charge you £3 because of overheads etc. To be fair, thats not the worst deal and they are lovely carrots. I'd eat them myself if I could guarantee I could run 5 furlongs as fast as your lovely horse.
Mike...........next door but one let it slip...your on the register for 10 years.........sorry.LOL
ahh the ultimate end to a good argument, the good old "I got nothing more to add so let me throw in the drug cheating accusations"
you lot are deluded, you're already making reasons for her dominant win.. "there's no class in the race", like that's a fault of hers, she's running in such an almighty prestigious event, so where are these almighty sprinters, these sprinters that are better then what she has beaten at home for 20 odd races in a row, where are they? who are they?
your argument for the 6f has no merit, you need to understand australian racing to understand why it's the case
we train our horses to peak for 1 run, also when we bring our horses into a preparation they start at the shortest distances and work into longer distances, unlike you guys, where I have seen horses running first up over 10f, would never happen here
there isn't a big time frame between your 5f race to your 6f race at Ascot, it's more often then not an after thought provided the horse pulls up well, trainers never plan to race in both (and win) and let's be honest, our sprinters are bred for raw speed, 5f is the best distance to exhibit that
you lot are deluded, you're already making reasons for her dominant win.. "there's no class in the race", like that's a fault of hers, she's running in such an almighty prestigious event, so where are these almighty sprinters, these sprinters that are better then what she has beaten at home for 20 odd races in a row, where are they? who are they?
your argument for the 6f has no merit, you need to understand australian racing to understand why it's the case
we train our horses to peak for 1 run, also when we bring our horses into a preparation they start at the shortest distances and work into longer distances, unlike you guys, where I have seen horses running first up over 10f, would never happen here
there isn't a big time frame between your 5f race to your 6f race at Ascot, it's more often then not an after thought provided the horse pulls up well, trainers never plan to race in both (and win) and let's be honest, our sprinters are bred for raw speed, 5f is the best distance to exhibit that
Ed and all the antipodean upside down folks...........i dont agree with some things you guys do but only fair.
The Tripple Trigger fukcwit is a registered fukcwit in the UK..........AKA MAX and other sad names.
He is clever but now been caught by GT...another perv bites the dust.......nice.
Had a cracking 3 months tbh..........some ended in the UK tabloids.
I love my racing and giving tips to help.........fukc with me though?
The Tripple Trigger fukcwit is a registered fukcwit in the UK..........AKA MAX and other sad names.
He is clever but now been caught by GT...another perv bites the dust.......nice.
Had a cracking 3 months tbh..........some ended in the UK tabloids.
I love my racing and giving tips to help.........fukc with me though?
some of you are alright, then some of you just blatantly refuse to believe she's world class
Cherry picking again I see and if I remember rightly regarding Aussie milers coming over here they got spanked far more often than they won.
Apart from my OH who....if she popped her clogs is worth approx $346,000,000 .........BC is on my wish list ED.
How is my mums ex donkey doing?
How is my mums ex donkey doing?
i'd be interested to know which milers we sent over
SYT isn't a miler but he does have a handy record at the mile but that's not what he was known for back home
what's the name of it mole?
SYT isn't a miler but he does have a handy record at the mile but that's not what he was known for back home
what's the name of it mole?
Glencadam Gold............you told me he would win a fortune.
ohh you had another name last we spoke
I remember.. it's being set for a Cup run, probably see it in the spring
hasn't run here yet
I remember.. it's being set for a Cup run, probably see it in the spring
hasn't run here yet
Got too go lads.........GL........buona fortuna........let me me know how Glencadam goes.
Just had the get on standby call for an imminent birth.
No idea filly or colt.........let you know as soon as.
Just had the get on standby call for an imminent birth.
No idea filly or colt.........let you know as soon as.
i'd be interested to know which milers we sent over
educeee, im waiting ima mazed to tell me their names, he knows everything, though has no idea who they were, of cause he will search for hours trying to find the 2 i was talking about and claim he knew all along.
one beat englands best middle distance runner Dubawi ( that will give ima a clue ) 2 group 1 wins, 2 group 1 placings, all at the mile. 2 other runs, raced at distance not suited and unplaced.
the other runner won a group 1 mile and unplaced after being serverly hampered inside the last furlong at only 2 starts abroad....
educeee, im waiting ima mazed to tell me their names, he knows everything, though has no idea who they were, of cause he will search for hours trying to find the 2 i was talking about and claim he knew all along.
one beat englands best middle distance runner Dubawi ( that will give ima a clue
) 2 group 1 wins, 2 group 1 placings, all at the mile. 2 other runs, raced at distance not suited and unplaced.the other runner won a group 1 mile and unplaced after being serverly hampered inside the last furlong at only 2 starts abroad....
No change from you then megsy and still incapable of comprehending that I've never said been detrimental about the Aussie horses but then again why let the fact gets in the way eh?
As for Aussie milers coming over here, I can only think of one off the top of my head although there might have been others and that was Starcraft. That horse won the QE2 as a 5YO when beating the 3YO Dubawi ¾L when giving away only 4lbs. A 3YO Frankel was in receipt of 8lbs in the Sussex Stakes from the 4YOs like Canford Cliffs but if those are the respective conditions of the races then fair enough but it does still go to show which of them has the far easier task.
Dubawi was also 5th in our 2000gns that season and would have been a fair way from being one of our best milers but you can only beat what you are up against and Ratki had previous finished 2nd to Starcraft's 3rd in the Queen Anne at Royal Ascot at York but talented as that horse was, it was a bit of a headbanger that was prone to running away with the jockey going to the start and pulling hard and refusing to settle in its races and subsequently the places were reversed the next time Starcraft and Ratki raced. In other races in England and France Starcraft finished 3rd (Queen Anne as mentioned) 6th of 7 in the Eclipse over 10f, that being over the same distance as he was 3rd in the Cox Plate and then won a Gr1 in France against predominately French horses, other than Jeremy Noseda's handicap winner Major's Cast that did finally win a 3 horse listed race when going off at 2/7f, so maybe that's why I can't think of the other one because the 2 from 2 (if you conveniently ignore the other defeats) were by the same horse, although megsy is saying it was "both running 3rd in the Cox Plate" but I'll admit my knowledge of Aussie form is nothing special.
Unless he means Haradasun but wasn't he trained by Aidan O'Brien, you know, that bloke who doesn't know how to train ex-Aussie horses and so it was down to him regarding So You Think's numerous defeats? Not to mention that the Queen Anne that it won by a head was on 17th June and it had already run on 17th May for O'Brien and finished 6th or 11 in the Lockinge but maybe we had better rewrite history and pretend that never ever happened when we are talking up the (ex) Aussie horses......plus isn't the Queen Anne for older horses only at 4YOs and over and so was ineligible that year in 2008 for the top 3YO milers like Raven's Pass and Henrythevavigator that ended up as 1st and 2nd in the Breeders's Cup Mile? The then 7YO previous handicapper and Royal Hunt Cup winner Cesare was in 4th that day too only beaten 1¼L and the highest level that horse ever won at was listed and Gr2.
As for Aussie milers coming over here, I can only think of one off the top of my head although there might have been others and that was Starcraft. That horse won the QE2 as a 5YO when beating the 3YO Dubawi ¾L when giving away only 4lbs. A 3YO Frankel was in receipt of 8lbs in the Sussex Stakes from the 4YOs like Canford Cliffs but if those are the respective conditions of the races then fair enough but it does still go to show which of them has the far easier task.
Dubawi was also 5th in our 2000gns that season and would have been a fair way from being one of our best milers but you can only beat what you are up against and Ratki had previous finished 2nd to Starcraft's 3rd in the Queen Anne at Royal Ascot at York but talented as that horse was, it was a bit of a headbanger that was prone to running away with the jockey going to the start and pulling hard and refusing to settle in its races and subsequently the places were reversed the next time Starcraft and Ratki raced. In other races in England and France Starcraft finished 3rd (Queen Anne as mentioned) 6th of 7 in the Eclipse over 10f, that being over the same distance as he was 3rd in the Cox Plate and then won a Gr1 in France against predominately French horses, other than Jeremy Noseda's handicap winner Major's Cast that did finally win a 3 horse listed race when going off at 2/7f, so maybe that's why I can't think of the other one because the 2 from 2 (if you conveniently ignore the other defeats) were by the same horse, although megsy is saying it was "both running 3rd in the Cox Plate" but I'll admit my knowledge of Aussie form is nothing special.
Unless he means Haradasun but wasn't he trained by Aidan O'Brien, you know, that bloke who doesn't know how to train ex-Aussie horses and so it was down to him regarding So You Think's numerous defeats? Not to mention that the Queen Anne that it won by a head was on 17th June and it had already run on 17th May for O'Brien and finished 6th or 11 in the Lockinge but maybe we had better rewrite history and pretend that never ever happened when we are talking up the (ex) Aussie horses......plus isn't the Queen Anne for older horses only at 4YOs and over and so was ineligible that year in 2008 for the top 3YO milers like Raven's Pass and Henrythevavigator that ended up as 1st and 2nd in the Breeders's Cup Mile? The then 7YO previous handicapper and Royal Hunt Cup winner Cesare was in 4th that day too only beaten 1¼L and the highest level that horse ever won at was listed and Gr2.
ima_mazed66 actually a 4 yr old australian times (starcraft)
ima_mazed66as YOUare fully aware, because of your rolling hill tracks 2000m in australia IS equivelent to your MILE please do not dramatise things, which you always do.
but I'll admit my knowledge of Aussie form is nothing special.
ima_mazed66 glad you finally admit it. in future your expertise on australian racehorses will be taken like a grain of salt [:happy:
2 horses went for a visit, 3 group 1 mile wins between them, just remember that ima_mazed66
ima_mazed66as YOUare fully aware, because of your rolling hill tracks 2000m in australia IS equivelent to your MILE please do not dramatise things, which you always do.
but I'll admit my knowledge of Aussie form is nothing special.
ima_mazed66 glad you finally admit it. in future your expertise on australian racehorses will be taken like a grain of salt [:happy:
2 horses went for a visit, 3 group 1 mile wins between them, just remember that ima_mazed66
2 horses went for a visit, 3 group 1 mile wins between them, just remember that ima_mazed66
and they wer'nt even best downunder.
maybe, just maybe that Iris guy, whats his name??, the guy who went home with his pants around his ankles after a melbourne cup raid
, runs SYT over a mile after all 2000m in oz was his pet distance
and they wer'nt even best downunder.
maybe, just maybe that Iris guy, whats his name??, the guy who went home with his pants around his ankles after a melbourne cup raid
, runs SYT over a mile after all 2000m in oz was his pet distance
Again megsy you seem to have problems reading as I've never claimed to have any great knowledge on Aussie form and have said so previously but not to worry..........I do have a fair amount on British form though and so can judge certain Aussie horses by the calibre of horse they beat here or more often than not by the calibre they are beaten by. Or judge when some of our way down the pecking order horses like Purple Moon (ex-hurdler), Bauer and Red Cadeaux go over there and go very close in your big handicap.
None of your other points above are particularly relevant anyway but I'll address them all the same.
Starcraft won the Gr1 Australian Derby which is a 12f race and was a previous Gr2 winner over 10f in Australia so 10f in England regardless of the course shouldn't have been a problem but was only 6th of 7 in the Eclipse around 11L behind the winner and also behind our that season Derby winner, which was 2nd when dropping back in trip. Starcraft was also behind 22/1, 40/1 and 50/1 shots despite only being 5/1 in the betting. That same Derby winner never won another race either which shows you it wasn't one of our best.
As for the weight older horses have to give the 3YOs it's the same regardless if they are 4, 5 or older it's just the actual amount of weight can be different depending on specific races, so Starcraft would have been giving Dubawi the same weight regardless if it was aged 4 or 5. The actual point I was making though but which has again gone right over your head was that the 4YO Canford Cliffs had to give the 3YO Frankel 8lbs whereas the older horse Starcraft (whether 4 or 5) was only giving away 4lbs to the 3YO Dubawi.....although to be honest I really should have stopped reading after your claim that "one beat englands best middle distance runner Dubawi" as you lose any credibility that you ever might have had after that and at least I'm willing to admit my knowledge of Aussie form isn't that great.
Plus it's not just the best from England you usually have to beat in our Gr1 races, it's also Ireland and France as well as occasionally German, Italian, Japanese, Spanish and US horses. The year Starcraft won in England it only had 6 opponents, 5 from England and a rare Aiden O'Brien no-hoper that finished last at 9/1 which is a massive price for one of his in a Gr1 one field so small. To further emphasis the lack of quality in that race, Godolphin's 100/1 pacemaker that day was on a losing run of 13 races but still finished 3rd and only 2¼L behind Starcraft.
Add to that they split into two groups with Godolphin's pacemaker doing the job on the rail more for Starcraft than Dubawi before Dettori on Dubawi who had been racing in the middle of the course was brought halfway across the width of it to join the pacemaker and Starcraft on the rail once realising he he had the 2 on his side beaten (they finished last and one form last btw) and overall I think it's fair to say Starcraft won a poor and muddling race but win is all you can do, even if Dubawi lost arguably more ground by having to come over than the ¾L it was beaten by with Starcraft keeping a straight path by running up the rail side.
What I actually do remember regarding those 3 group 1 mile wins is that there were defeats that went with them too plus I also remember one horse was trained by an Italian training in England and the other was by an Irishman so remind me against exactly how that makes them Aussie successes? Even if you want to point out they were ex-Aussie horses, Starcraft ran it's last Aussie race on 23rd October 2004 and then had 5 races for Cumani with the first on 14th June 2005 and it's wins came on 4th and 24th of September 2005 so practically a year later and by the same reasoning if they were Aussie training successes you may just as well say Jeune's Melbourne Cup win was an English training success, despite having left Geoff Wragg around a year earlier and having a different trainer!
None of your other points above are particularly relevant anyway but I'll address them all the same.
Starcraft won the Gr1 Australian Derby which is a 12f race and was a previous Gr2 winner over 10f in Australia so 10f in England regardless of the course shouldn't have been a problem but was only 6th of 7 in the Eclipse around 11L behind the winner and also behind our that season Derby winner, which was 2nd when dropping back in trip. Starcraft was also behind 22/1, 40/1 and 50/1 shots despite only being 5/1 in the betting. That same Derby winner never won another race either which shows you it wasn't one of our best.
As for the weight older horses have to give the 3YOs it's the same regardless if they are 4, 5 or older it's just the actual amount of weight can be different depending on specific races, so Starcraft would have been giving Dubawi the same weight regardless if it was aged 4 or 5. The actual point I was making though but which has again gone right over your head was that the 4YO Canford Cliffs had to give the 3YO Frankel 8lbs whereas the older horse Starcraft (whether 4 or 5) was only giving away 4lbs to the 3YO Dubawi.....although to be honest I really should have stopped reading after your claim that "one beat englands best middle distance runner Dubawi" as you lose any credibility that you ever might have had after that and at least I'm willing to admit my knowledge of Aussie form isn't that great.
Plus it's not just the best from England you usually have to beat in our Gr1 races, it's also Ireland and France as well as occasionally German, Italian, Japanese, Spanish and US horses. The year Starcraft won in England it only had 6 opponents, 5 from England and a rare Aiden O'Brien no-hoper that finished last at 9/1 which is a massive price for one of his in a Gr1 one field so small. To further emphasis the lack of quality in that race, Godolphin's 100/1 pacemaker that day was on a losing run of 13 races but still finished 3rd and only 2¼L behind Starcraft.
Add to that they split into two groups with Godolphin's pacemaker doing the job on the rail more for Starcraft than Dubawi before Dettori on Dubawi who had been racing in the middle of the course was brought halfway across the width of it to join the pacemaker and Starcraft on the rail once realising he he had the 2 on his side beaten (they finished last and one form last btw) and overall I think it's fair to say Starcraft won a poor and muddling race but win is all you can do, even if Dubawi lost arguably more ground by having to come over than the ¾L it was beaten by with Starcraft keeping a straight path by running up the rail side.
What I actually do remember regarding those 3 group 1 mile wins is that there were defeats that went with them too plus I also remember one horse was trained by an Italian training in England and the other was by an Irishman so remind me against exactly how that makes them Aussie successes? Even if you want to point out they were ex-Aussie horses, Starcraft ran it's last Aussie race on 23rd October 2004 and then had 5 races for Cumani with the first on 14th June 2005 and it's wins came on 4th and 24th of September 2005 so practically a year later and by the same reasoning if they were Aussie training successes you may just as well say Jeune's Melbourne Cup win was an English training success, despite having left Geoff Wragg around a year earlier and having a different trainer!
Black Caviar is a bit masculine very much like the average Australian bint. She will be troubled to produce a foal because of her manly attributes.
has she broken any track records?im a big fan but i dont know how her times are measuring up?
has broken any track records.
but then she hasnt been asked to.
but then she hasnt been asked to.
An entry of 57 sprinters from across the globe has been received for the Group One Darley July Cup, run over six furlongs at Newmarket on Saturday, July 14, the third and final day of the Piper Heidsieck July Festival.
Boasting a prize fund of £400,000, the Darley July Cup is the third British leg of the Global Sprint Challenge and also forms part of the QIPCO British Champions Series.
The 57 entries include representatives from Australia, Hong Kong, Bahrain and France, in addition to the very best from Britain and Ireland.
Star attraction among the three Australian entries is the outstanding mare Black Caviar, who has won all 20 of her starts in her homeland, with no less than 10 of those having come at Group One level.
Two races ago she won the Group One Coolmore Lightning Stakes over five furlongs at Flemington on February 18 - the first event in the 2012 Global Sprint Challenge.
Peter Moody's unbeaten six year old - the second highest-rated horse in the world - is set to be based in Newmarket ahead of her assault on Royal Ascot and the Darley July Cup over the summer. The Australian challenge also includes the Group One winners Foxwedge and Ortensia.
Krypton Factor has proved to be a star for his Bahrain-based owner/trainer Fawzi Nass in Dubai this year, winning the Group Three Mahab Al Shimaal and the Group One Dubai Golden Shaheen, with both those victories coming over six furlongs on Tapeta at Meydan. The Dubai Golden Shaheen was the third Global Sprint Challenge race of 2012.
The four-year-old is set for a European campaign over the summer, which should hopefully include both Royal Ascot and the Darley July Cup. He is due to run at Kranji, Singapore, on Sunday, May 20, in the Group One Kris Flyer International, also part of the Global Sprint Challenge.
Oliver St Lawrence, racing manager to Fawzi Nass, commented: "Krypton Factor runs in Singapore on May 20 and he should land in England on May 24 with the intention of going on to the Diamond Jubilee Stakes at Royal Ascot and the Darley July Cup at Newmarket.
"He has been very well since his victory in Dubai. We eased off a bit but he wasn't on the go from the end of Meydan last year to the start of Meydan this year so he has hardly had a strenuous time.
"He has improved this year because we have brought him back in trip and Fawzi Nass always knew that last year, but he had just turned three so we didn't want to take on older horses. He had his prep run over eight furlongs this season and then once he was back at six he was pretty unbeatable.
"He had good form on turf for Sir Mark Prescott so you would like to think he could hold his own now he is switching from Tapeta and we will find that out in Singapore.
"We will take it race by race when he gets to England. He is a gelding so there doesn't need to be stallion career mapped out for him."
The latest French-trained winner of the Darley July Cup was Marchand D'Or in 2008, who was handled by Freddy Head.
Head has two potential challengers in 2012, the fillies Moonlight Cloud and Zantenda. The four-year-old Moonlight Cloud landed the Group One Prix Maurice de Gheest over an extended six furlongs at Deauville in August, while the three-year-old Zantenda was a high-class juvenile last season, ending the campaign by finishing third in the Group One Prix Marcel Boussac at Longchamp in October.
Head commented: "Moonlight Cloud is very well and the Darley July Cup could be a race for her. I am very happy and she will reappear in a seven-furlong race at Longchamp in early June. I can't say she has improved, but sometimes from three to four they get a bit tougher.
"I was a bit disappointed with her at Ascot, but I think she could be better than what she showed there because prior to that she was very impressive in the Prix Maurice De Gheest.
"I am going to try sprinting with Zantenda and see if it is her thing. She will run at Longchamp (Prix de Saint-Georges) on Sunday over five furlongs and we will take it from there."
The international entries for the Darley July Cup also include the Hong Kong superstar Joy And Fun, trained by Derek Cruz. The tough and consistent nine-year-old won the Group One Chairman's Sprint Prize at Sha Tin in February
Boasting a prize fund of £400,000, the Darley July Cup is the third British leg of the Global Sprint Challenge and also forms part of the QIPCO British Champions Series.
The 57 entries include representatives from Australia, Hong Kong, Bahrain and France, in addition to the very best from Britain and Ireland.
Star attraction among the three Australian entries is the outstanding mare Black Caviar, who has won all 20 of her starts in her homeland, with no less than 10 of those having come at Group One level.
Two races ago she won the Group One Coolmore Lightning Stakes over five furlongs at Flemington on February 18 - the first event in the 2012 Global Sprint Challenge.
Peter Moody's unbeaten six year old - the second highest-rated horse in the world - is set to be based in Newmarket ahead of her assault on Royal Ascot and the Darley July Cup over the summer. The Australian challenge also includes the Group One winners Foxwedge and Ortensia.
Krypton Factor has proved to be a star for his Bahrain-based owner/trainer Fawzi Nass in Dubai this year, winning the Group Three Mahab Al Shimaal and the Group One Dubai Golden Shaheen, with both those victories coming over six furlongs on Tapeta at Meydan. The Dubai Golden Shaheen was the third Global Sprint Challenge race of 2012.
The four-year-old is set for a European campaign over the summer, which should hopefully include both Royal Ascot and the Darley July Cup. He is due to run at Kranji, Singapore, on Sunday, May 20, in the Group One Kris Flyer International, also part of the Global Sprint Challenge.
Oliver St Lawrence, racing manager to Fawzi Nass, commented: "Krypton Factor runs in Singapore on May 20 and he should land in England on May 24 with the intention of going on to the Diamond Jubilee Stakes at Royal Ascot and the Darley July Cup at Newmarket.
"He has been very well since his victory in Dubai. We eased off a bit but he wasn't on the go from the end of Meydan last year to the start of Meydan this year so he has hardly had a strenuous time.
"He has improved this year because we have brought him back in trip and Fawzi Nass always knew that last year, but he had just turned three so we didn't want to take on older horses. He had his prep run over eight furlongs this season and then once he was back at six he was pretty unbeatable.
"He had good form on turf for Sir Mark Prescott so you would like to think he could hold his own now he is switching from Tapeta and we will find that out in Singapore.
"We will take it race by race when he gets to England. He is a gelding so there doesn't need to be stallion career mapped out for him."
The latest French-trained winner of the Darley July Cup was Marchand D'Or in 2008, who was handled by Freddy Head.
Head has two potential challengers in 2012, the fillies Moonlight Cloud and Zantenda. The four-year-old Moonlight Cloud landed the Group One Prix Maurice de Gheest over an extended six furlongs at Deauville in August, while the three-year-old Zantenda was a high-class juvenile last season, ending the campaign by finishing third in the Group One Prix Marcel Boussac at Longchamp in October.
Head commented: "Moonlight Cloud is very well and the Darley July Cup could be a race for her. I am very happy and she will reappear in a seven-furlong race at Longchamp in early June. I can't say she has improved, but sometimes from three to four they get a bit tougher.
"I was a bit disappointed with her at Ascot, but I think she could be better than what she showed there because prior to that she was very impressive in the Prix Maurice De Gheest.
"I am going to try sprinting with Zantenda and see if it is her thing. She will run at Longchamp (Prix de Saint-Georges) on Sunday over five furlongs and we will take it from there."
The international entries for the Darley July Cup also include the Hong Kong superstar Joy And Fun, trained by Derek Cruz. The tough and consistent nine-year-old won the Group One Chairman's Sprint Prize at Sha Tin in February
for her overseas followers.
Black Caviar's effortless trackwork astounds Peter Moody
NO one knows Black Caviar better than Peter Moody, but even Victoria's leading trainer was left stunned after the sprinter's final hitout for Saturday's Goodwood at Morphettville.
Black Caviar delivered a gallop that most horses would love to produce on race day, not the pitch black of a Tuesday morning.
"She never ceases to amaze me," Moody said after the five-year-old ran home her final 400m in 22.26sec on the Caulfield course proper.
"She worked lovely, quickening the last 400m and always travelling within herself. She has ticked all the boxes and she's off to Adelaide.
"Everything is on track. She is fit and in form and we'd expect to win in Adelaide and then concentrate on the UK trip."
Black Caviar's effortless trackwork astounds Peter Moody
NO one knows Black Caviar better than Peter Moody, but even Victoria's leading trainer was left stunned after the sprinter's final hitout for Saturday's Goodwood at Morphettville.
Black Caviar delivered a gallop that most horses would love to produce on race day, not the pitch black of a Tuesday morning.
"She never ceases to amaze me," Moody said after the five-year-old ran home her final 400m in 22.26sec on the Caulfield course proper.
"She worked lovely, quickening the last 400m and always travelling within herself. She has ticked all the boxes and she's off to Adelaide.
"Everything is on track. She is fit and in form and we'd expect to win in Adelaide and then concentrate on the UK trip."
Hate to burst BCs bubble for the consecutive races won (I am a fan btw).
Found out a snippet of history today which relates that a filly owned by Queen Victoria and subsequently sold to stand at the Hungarian National Stud won her first 10 races in her first season,1876.
She was unbeaten in all her 54 races all over Europe....he name was Kincsem,she won her final race was in 1879.
Btw the birth produced a filly weighing in at a shade over 3kg.
Found out a snippet of history today which relates that a filly owned by Queen Victoria and subsequently sold to stand at the Hungarian National Stud won her first 10 races in her first season,1876.
She was unbeaten in all her 54 races all over Europe....he name was Kincsem,she won her final race was in 1879.
Btw the birth produced a filly weighing in at a shade over 3kg.
Got that wrong according to the OH.........the sire was owned by QV.....named Cambuscan and sold to the Hungarians.
Kincsem (Hungarian for "My Precious" or "My Treasure"; 1874–1887) was the most successful Thoroughbred race horse ever, having won 54 races for 54 starts. Foaled in Tápiószentmárton, Hungary in 1874, she is a national icon, and is revered in other parts of the world, too. Over four seasons she won all her races against both female and male company at various race tracks across Europe, a record that's still unbeaten.
That confirms it then,BC is not the winning most and never will be.
Kincsem (Hungarian for "My Precious" or "My Treasure"; 1874–1887) was the most successful Thoroughbred race horse ever, having won 54 races for 54 starts. Foaled in Tápiószentmárton, Hungary in 1874, she is a national icon, and is revered in other parts of the world, too. Over four seasons she won all her races against both female and male company at various race tracks across Europe, a record that's still unbeaten.
Kincsem's sire, Cambuscan, was owned by Queen Victoria. He was sold to Hungarian interests in 1873 and was brought to stand at the Hungarian National Stud, Kisber. Cambuscan, second in England's St. Leger Stakes in 1864, was by Newminster, his dam, The Arrow was by Slane. Kincsem was out of the Hungarian mare Waternymph, a daughter of the English horse Cotswold, by Newcourt (by Sir Hercules). Kincsem's third dam, Seaweed was also by Slane making her inbred to him in the third and fourth generations (3x4).[2]
A perhaps apocryphal story surrounds the beginnings of Kincsem. Running with a group of fifty horses on the grounds of her owner's ancestral Hungarian home, she alone was lanky and ungainly. She would stand with her head low and her eyes half-opened. One night she went missing and when found again, was with a band of gypsies. "Why," asked her puzzled owner of the thief, "steal this horse when there were so many better to chose from?" "Because," answered the gypsy, "The other horses may be better looking, but she was the best of the lot. She'll be a champion."[3]
[edit]
A perhaps apocryphal story surrounds the beginnings of Kincsem. Running with a group of fifty horses on the grounds of her owner's ancestral Hungarian home, she alone was lanky and ungainly. She would stand with her head low and her eyes half-opened. One night she went missing and when found again, was with a band of gypsies. "Why," asked her puzzled owner of the thief, "steal this horse when there were so many better to chose from?" "Because," answered the gypsy, "The other horses may be better looking, but she was the best of the lot. She'll be a champion."[3]
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Kincsem's career began in 1876. She was entered for ten races in ten different places in Hungary, Germany and Austria as a two-year-old and won them all.[1]
As her unbeaten streak against Europe's best horses continued, Kincsem attracted great interest from the European racing public. Emperor Franz Josef was known to be a fan. As a three-year-old she won the Two Thousand Guineas in Pozsony, the One Thousand Guineas and the Oaks in Budapest, not to mention the Austrian Derby, the Kaiserpreis in Vienna and the Grosser Preis von Hanover and Grosser Preis von Baden. In all she had seventeen victories.
Her four-year-old campaign was equally successful, beginning with nine straight victories. She travelled to England to take part in the Goodwood Cup, but injury to the fancied Verneuil meant it was an easier challenge than expected.
As a four-year-old Kincsem won the Grand Prix de Deauville and the Grosser Preis von Baden again (after a run-off following a dead-heat).
Kincsem had her fiftieth victory in Frankfurt the next year. Her last race was the Hungarian Autumn Oaks which she won for the third time.
As her unbeaten streak against Europe's best horses continued, Kincsem attracted great interest from the European racing public. Emperor Franz Josef was known to be a fan. As a three-year-old she won the Two Thousand Guineas in Pozsony, the One Thousand Guineas and the Oaks in Budapest, not to mention the Austrian Derby, the Kaiserpreis in Vienna and the Grosser Preis von Hanover and Grosser Preis von Baden. In all she had seventeen victories.
Her four-year-old campaign was equally successful, beginning with nine straight victories. She travelled to England to take part in the Goodwood Cup, but injury to the fancied Verneuil meant it was an easier challenge than expected.
As a four-year-old Kincsem won the Grand Prix de Deauville and the Grosser Preis von Baden again (after a run-off following a dead-heat).
Kincsem had her fiftieth victory in Frankfurt the next year. Her last race was the Hungarian Autumn Oaks which she won for the third time.
I thought better of you MOLE, you've been sucked in to this vermin's tripe.
had a vision last night in a dream....frankel vs black caviar....frankel won by 7 eased down
I had a dream too, Usain Bolt vs Haile Gebrselassie, Gebrselassie won by 4 (km).
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