Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
21 Apr 12
11:43
Joined:
Date Joined:
05 Jan 10
As high street betting shops and internet roulette claim ever more victims, Simon Murphy meets the gamers who have beaten the odds in a struggle with addiction
Simon Murphy guardian.co.uk,
Eugene Farrar combed his hair, put on his best suit and polished his shoes. He wanted to make sure he looked the part for the moment he chose to turn his life around. On a spring afternoon last year, the 42-year-old calmly walked into a betting shop in Knaresborough, North Yorkshire, and told a member of staff: "I want to self-exclude – I've had enough." Self-exclusion is a formal process whereby a person can ask a bookmaker to close their account and stop taking their money.
Just hours earlier, he had told his wife Tracy the secret he had been hiding from her for 12 years: he was a gambling addict.
Now, more than a year later, Farrar is perched on his chair, eyes welling up as he recalls the day he says he "got my life back".
"Tracy said to me, 'You don't have to do it alone.' When someone turns around and says that, it's a really empowering thing to hear. When someone says they'll walk with you, you immediately feel stronger," the professional jazz musician says.
Farrar, whose grandfather owned a betting shop in the 1970s, played a gig in a local restaurant that night and said he "felt relief in every part of my body". He has not gambled since.
Farrar, who estimates he lost more than £100,000 over two decades gambling, is not alone in his struggle. There are an estimated 450,000 "problem gamblers" in the UK, according to the most recent British Gambling Prevalence Survey.
And the numbers are rising – up from 0.6% of the population in 2007 to 0.9% in 2010, according to one measure. A further 3.5 million people were categorised as "at-risk" gamblers.
And GamCare, an industry funded body that provides support to problem gamblers, told a parliamentary select committee last year that 2% of 12 to 15-year-olds are addicted to gambling.
Betting shops are proliferating in the country's poorest areas. In Hackney, east London, there are eight on one street alone, and 43 across the borough. In Haringey, where the riots flared up last summer, there are more betting shops than bookshops, according to Tottenham MP David Lammy.
Grasp, an independent reform group set up by former gambling addicts, and London Labour councillor Rowenna Davis recently launched a campaign called High Streets First, which is calling on the government to change the law to allow councils to prevent betting shops from clustering in poor inner-city areas.
Betting shops are classed as financial and professional services alongside estate agents and banks, meaning they can open up in any building that previously housed such organisations without planning permission. A review by retail guru Mary Portas recommended in December that councils be given the power to stop bookmakers opening, claiming "the influx of betting shops, often into more deprived areas, is blighting our high streets". Last month the government rejected Portas's proposal, saying councils already had adequate powers.
Lammy, who tabled an amendment to the localism bill last year asking for a change to the class of betting shops, says the government was "squandering the opportunity to change the law to give local people the power to say 'no' to more of these shops".
The rise in the number of betting shops is being driven by a new breed of gambling machines: fixed odds betting terminals. People can bet £100 a spin every 20 seconds on these virtual roulette machines, and Farrar says he has easily lost £1,000 in a single sitting, if not more.
Dubbed the crack cocaine of the betting industry, the terminals account for almost half of betting shops' profits, and there are thought to be at least 32,000 in the UK, or one machine per 1,500 adults.
Legislation restricts the number in each betting shop to four, but councils are powerless to stop more shops opening. In last month's budget George Osborne announced a new tax on the profits from fixed odds betting terminals, which could raise £50m a year. Yet critics fear this move may pave the way for an increase in the number of terminals allowed in each betting shop to six or even eight.
"The new gaming machine tax on fixed odds betting terminals proves that the government is addicted to the problem gamblers' losses," a Grasp spokesman says.
"These machines offer high stakes and high-speed play never seen before on our high streets. You can lose £18,000 an hour without being asked a question. They're the perfect vehicle to fuel problem gambling."
The internet has also provided problem gamblers with a new platform to pursue their addiction in secret. According to the Gambling Commission, 9.8% of people gamble online, up from 5.2% in 2006.
Problem gambling is not confined to the residents of deprived inner cities. Phil Mawer, privately educated in Taunton and captain of his university rugby team, had a successful career in support services for the oil industry, which saw him working through a civil war in Yemen and, more recently, in Afghanistan.
Happily married and living in Cyprus, working abroad for months at a time, the ease of internet gambling – specifically, blackjack – proved his undoing. He estimates he lost £500,000 over 20 years.
"Sure, I've dabbled with fixed odds betting terminals, but I was that far gone with the internet that I didn't need to look for even quicker ways of blowing my money," says Mawer.
"I do take responsibility for gambling but if I had a choice, why – given my circumstances – would I have taken such a destructive path in my life?
"I'm an intelligent guy, university educated, well-paid, I'm running an operation with 2,000 employees, 6,000 clients – I'm very renowned in my small industry."
Mawer, 49, whose wife died last year, has written a self-help book for problem gamblers, Overcoming Gambling, detailing the methods that helped him stop. His last bet, in a casino at Frankfurt airport on 11 August 2006, is a moment he describes as his "rock bottom".
He recounts the day he told his wife about his addiction. After returning from a trip working abroad, she confronted him with bank statements as they sat down for a drink on the veranda. "She was very, very shocked – there wasn't anger immediately," he says. "She was looking at three months of statements. She then went to the bank with her daughter and asked for five years' worth of bank statements for all the accounts, credit card, the lot."
Hours later, Mawer was forced to lock himself in the bathroom after his wife came at him with a kitchen knife during the night.
Years before, Mawer's wife had suspected he was having affair but, in reality, it was his secret gambling that was forcing him to sneak around in the manner of an cheating husband.
"Everything you'd be trying to do if you were disguising a relationship is what you do as a gambler," says Mawer, who admits he spent up to nine hours a day gambling online.
"You've got highs and lows and you try to disguise that – you become inattentive, over-attentive when you're trying to cover up. You become emotionally barren as you have to cover the wins and the losses."
For many former gambling addicts, the problem can be traced back to an early age.
Bobby Gee, 34, remembers being taken horse racing when he was eight. Throughout his teens he dabbled with bets on the greyhounds and, when he went out with friends to the pub, he would always be the one playing the fruit machine.
"I was in denial for many years that I had a problem," says the father of two. "It never really bothered me – I'd always find a way to pay the rent. There were always people to borrow money off. I only really started to think it was a problem when I had a mortgage."
Like so many others, fixed odds betting terminals offered Gee, a pub manager, an outlet for his addiction. He would find any opportunity to slip off to the betting shop – before or after work, during lunch, on the way to the shops.
"I'd have, say, £1,000 a month to pay the mortgage and arrears, and I'd go to the bookies thinking, it doesn't matter, I'll only use a couple of hundred quid. Then I'd lose the whole month's payment," says Gee, who lives in Brighton.
"As far as my missus was concerned, the mortgage was paid, but it wasn't. To this day she doesn't actually know how bad it was."
Gee, who says he is "probably 10 or 20 grand in debt" because of gambling, used to take money out of the safe at a restaurant where he worked to fund his habit. He says he always replaced it – borrowing from friends, family, credit cards and high-interest payday loan companies.
"I got so good at lying. The things I was saying I actually started to believe myself," he says. "It was always things like the car had broken down, I couldn't get to work. Especially when you phone up people like credit card companies or the mortgage people, it's always the lie of home improvements going over budget."
For Gee, Mawer and Farrar – who are hoping that their stories will encourage others to deal with their gambling problems – there is no reason to lie any more.
'Gambling is an illness, not merely a compulsion'
Two-thirds of patients treated at the UK's first specialist problem gambling clinic have indicated that controversial fixed odds betting terminals encouraged their addiction.
Dr Henrietta Bowden-Jones, who set up the NHS National Problem Gambling Clinic in London in 2008, also told Guardian Money society needs to recognise gambling is a fully fledged addiction rather than a mere compulsion. She hopes changing people's perception of the illness will stimulate extra funding.
"It's difficult for people to understand the severity of the illness unless they come into contact with patients. We have 2,000 files of people who have been referred to us. For example, they have lost their home, or their parents' home, through gambling," Bowden-Jones she says. "Many of them have broken marriages and have been separated from their children, lost their jobs or ended up in prison because of the gambling."
The clinic, which has 10 staff including volunteers, survives on a budget of £300,000 a year, but Bowden-Jones hopes to increase funding by launching a charity called Gambling Concern.
"My dream is to have a day hospital and a drop-in centre, capturing people when they're hot off the bookmakers. I can't do that without the extra funding," she says. "The fact that gambling is a hidden addiction works to the detriment of the pathological gambler because sometimes problems have gone so far with the gambler being able to hide the addiction, that by the time people pick up the problems it is an extremely serious addiction with people feeling suicidal. They don't want to live any more because it's a negative reality where they have no job, and no contact with friends because they've tried to borrow money and people have disowned them. They have no spouse, they've lost touch with their parents, they have no home."
She says prisoners have written to her begging for treatment on the day of their release, indicating they will reoffend otherwise.
"Illegal activities among our patients are quite high. These are people who have an addiction and then steal money because they want to fund more gambling. The statistics are quite high – 40%, 50% of gamblers have committed illegal acts," she says. "I really believe one of the things we should be doing, which we've started at the clinic, is to educate the criminal justice system to the fact that this is an illness and it needs to be taken into account when people end up in court."
While gambling addiction is largely viewed as a male problem, roughly 10% of the clinic's patients are female.
Professor Jim Orford, a leading expert on problem gambling at the University of Birmingham, thinks the ease of internet gambling poses a particular threat to women. "It's something you don't have to go out of the house to do, so women who stay at home are certainly at risk."
Orford is also highly critical of fixed odds betting terminals, and backs the High Streets First campaign. "The kind of games you play on them are not your old fruit machine games – these are casino-type games of a kind that used to be confined to casinos. Now, here they are on the high street. By their very nature, I'm not surprised they combine all the features you would expect that make gambling particularly dangerous."
Orford, who is launching a campaign group, Gambling Watch UK, thinks Tony Blair's government lifted the lid on gambling. "As a country we were really quite restrained about gambling. It wasn't advertised, it wasn't encouraged – it was a bit of a dirty word among most people. Then the national lottery came and made a difference. It got gambling advertised in a big way, and all the other gambling firms got together and asked for a level playing field so they could be advertised themselves. I think there has been an enormous rise in gambling and an enormous rise in the accessibility. Attitudes are changing slowly and we really should be worried about it."
Simon Murphy guardian.co.uk,
Eugene Farrar combed his hair, put on his best suit and polished his shoes. He wanted to make sure he looked the part for the moment he chose to turn his life around. On a spring afternoon last year, the 42-year-old calmly walked into a betting shop in Knaresborough, North Yorkshire, and told a member of staff: "I want to self-exclude – I've had enough." Self-exclusion is a formal process whereby a person can ask a bookmaker to close their account and stop taking their money.
Just hours earlier, he had told his wife Tracy the secret he had been hiding from her for 12 years: he was a gambling addict.
Now, more than a year later, Farrar is perched on his chair, eyes welling up as he recalls the day he says he "got my life back".
"Tracy said to me, 'You don't have to do it alone.' When someone turns around and says that, it's a really empowering thing to hear. When someone says they'll walk with you, you immediately feel stronger," the professional jazz musician says.
Farrar, whose grandfather owned a betting shop in the 1970s, played a gig in a local restaurant that night and said he "felt relief in every part of my body". He has not gambled since.
Farrar, who estimates he lost more than £100,000 over two decades gambling, is not alone in his struggle. There are an estimated 450,000 "problem gamblers" in the UK, according to the most recent British Gambling Prevalence Survey.
And the numbers are rising – up from 0.6% of the population in 2007 to 0.9% in 2010, according to one measure. A further 3.5 million people were categorised as "at-risk" gamblers.
And GamCare, an industry funded body that provides support to problem gamblers, told a parliamentary select committee last year that 2% of 12 to 15-year-olds are addicted to gambling.
Betting shops are proliferating in the country's poorest areas. In Hackney, east London, there are eight on one street alone, and 43 across the borough. In Haringey, where the riots flared up last summer, there are more betting shops than bookshops, according to Tottenham MP David Lammy.
Grasp, an independent reform group set up by former gambling addicts, and London Labour councillor Rowenna Davis recently launched a campaign called High Streets First, which is calling on the government to change the law to allow councils to prevent betting shops from clustering in poor inner-city areas.
Betting shops are classed as financial and professional services alongside estate agents and banks, meaning they can open up in any building that previously housed such organisations without planning permission. A review by retail guru Mary Portas recommended in December that councils be given the power to stop bookmakers opening, claiming "the influx of betting shops, often into more deprived areas, is blighting our high streets". Last month the government rejected Portas's proposal, saying councils already had adequate powers.
Lammy, who tabled an amendment to the localism bill last year asking for a change to the class of betting shops, says the government was "squandering the opportunity to change the law to give local people the power to say 'no' to more of these shops".
The rise in the number of betting shops is being driven by a new breed of gambling machines: fixed odds betting terminals. People can bet £100 a spin every 20 seconds on these virtual roulette machines, and Farrar says he has easily lost £1,000 in a single sitting, if not more.
Dubbed the crack cocaine of the betting industry, the terminals account for almost half of betting shops' profits, and there are thought to be at least 32,000 in the UK, or one machine per 1,500 adults.
Legislation restricts the number in each betting shop to four, but councils are powerless to stop more shops opening. In last month's budget George Osborne announced a new tax on the profits from fixed odds betting terminals, which could raise £50m a year. Yet critics fear this move may pave the way for an increase in the number of terminals allowed in each betting shop to six or even eight.
"The new gaming machine tax on fixed odds betting terminals proves that the government is addicted to the problem gamblers' losses," a Grasp spokesman says.
"These machines offer high stakes and high-speed play never seen before on our high streets. You can lose £18,000 an hour without being asked a question. They're the perfect vehicle to fuel problem gambling."
The internet has also provided problem gamblers with a new platform to pursue their addiction in secret. According to the Gambling Commission, 9.8% of people gamble online, up from 5.2% in 2006.
Problem gambling is not confined to the residents of deprived inner cities. Phil Mawer, privately educated in Taunton and captain of his university rugby team, had a successful career in support services for the oil industry, which saw him working through a civil war in Yemen and, more recently, in Afghanistan.
Happily married and living in Cyprus, working abroad for months at a time, the ease of internet gambling – specifically, blackjack – proved his undoing. He estimates he lost £500,000 over 20 years.
"Sure, I've dabbled with fixed odds betting terminals, but I was that far gone with the internet that I didn't need to look for even quicker ways of blowing my money," says Mawer.
"I do take responsibility for gambling but if I had a choice, why – given my circumstances – would I have taken such a destructive path in my life?
"I'm an intelligent guy, university educated, well-paid, I'm running an operation with 2,000 employees, 6,000 clients – I'm very renowned in my small industry."
Mawer, 49, whose wife died last year, has written a self-help book for problem gamblers, Overcoming Gambling, detailing the methods that helped him stop. His last bet, in a casino at Frankfurt airport on 11 August 2006, is a moment he describes as his "rock bottom".
He recounts the day he told his wife about his addiction. After returning from a trip working abroad, she confronted him with bank statements as they sat down for a drink on the veranda. "She was very, very shocked – there wasn't anger immediately," he says. "She was looking at three months of statements. She then went to the bank with her daughter and asked for five years' worth of bank statements for all the accounts, credit card, the lot."
Hours later, Mawer was forced to lock himself in the bathroom after his wife came at him with a kitchen knife during the night.
Years before, Mawer's wife had suspected he was having affair but, in reality, it was his secret gambling that was forcing him to sneak around in the manner of an cheating husband.
"Everything you'd be trying to do if you were disguising a relationship is what you do as a gambler," says Mawer, who admits he spent up to nine hours a day gambling online.
"You've got highs and lows and you try to disguise that – you become inattentive, over-attentive when you're trying to cover up. You become emotionally barren as you have to cover the wins and the losses."
For many former gambling addicts, the problem can be traced back to an early age.
Bobby Gee, 34, remembers being taken horse racing when he was eight. Throughout his teens he dabbled with bets on the greyhounds and, when he went out with friends to the pub, he would always be the one playing the fruit machine.
"I was in denial for many years that I had a problem," says the father of two. "It never really bothered me – I'd always find a way to pay the rent. There were always people to borrow money off. I only really started to think it was a problem when I had a mortgage."
Like so many others, fixed odds betting terminals offered Gee, a pub manager, an outlet for his addiction. He would find any opportunity to slip off to the betting shop – before or after work, during lunch, on the way to the shops.
"I'd have, say, £1,000 a month to pay the mortgage and arrears, and I'd go to the bookies thinking, it doesn't matter, I'll only use a couple of hundred quid. Then I'd lose the whole month's payment," says Gee, who lives in Brighton.
"As far as my missus was concerned, the mortgage was paid, but it wasn't. To this day she doesn't actually know how bad it was."
Gee, who says he is "probably 10 or 20 grand in debt" because of gambling, used to take money out of the safe at a restaurant where he worked to fund his habit. He says he always replaced it – borrowing from friends, family, credit cards and high-interest payday loan companies.
"I got so good at lying. The things I was saying I actually started to believe myself," he says. "It was always things like the car had broken down, I couldn't get to work. Especially when you phone up people like credit card companies or the mortgage people, it's always the lie of home improvements going over budget."
For Gee, Mawer and Farrar – who are hoping that their stories will encourage others to deal with their gambling problems – there is no reason to lie any more.
'Gambling is an illness, not merely a compulsion'
Two-thirds of patients treated at the UK's first specialist problem gambling clinic have indicated that controversial fixed odds betting terminals encouraged their addiction.
Dr Henrietta Bowden-Jones, who set up the NHS National Problem Gambling Clinic in London in 2008, also told Guardian Money society needs to recognise gambling is a fully fledged addiction rather than a mere compulsion. She hopes changing people's perception of the illness will stimulate extra funding.
"It's difficult for people to understand the severity of the illness unless they come into contact with patients. We have 2,000 files of people who have been referred to us. For example, they have lost their home, or their parents' home, through gambling," Bowden-Jones she says. "Many of them have broken marriages and have been separated from their children, lost their jobs or ended up in prison because of the gambling."
The clinic, which has 10 staff including volunteers, survives on a budget of £300,000 a year, but Bowden-Jones hopes to increase funding by launching a charity called Gambling Concern.
"My dream is to have a day hospital and a drop-in centre, capturing people when they're hot off the bookmakers. I can't do that without the extra funding," she says. "The fact that gambling is a hidden addiction works to the detriment of the pathological gambler because sometimes problems have gone so far with the gambler being able to hide the addiction, that by the time people pick up the problems it is an extremely serious addiction with people feeling suicidal. They don't want to live any more because it's a negative reality where they have no job, and no contact with friends because they've tried to borrow money and people have disowned them. They have no spouse, they've lost touch with their parents, they have no home."
She says prisoners have written to her begging for treatment on the day of their release, indicating they will reoffend otherwise.
"Illegal activities among our patients are quite high. These are people who have an addiction and then steal money because they want to fund more gambling. The statistics are quite high – 40%, 50% of gamblers have committed illegal acts," she says. "I really believe one of the things we should be doing, which we've started at the clinic, is to educate the criminal justice system to the fact that this is an illness and it needs to be taken into account when people end up in court."
While gambling addiction is largely viewed as a male problem, roughly 10% of the clinic's patients are female.
Professor Jim Orford, a leading expert on problem gambling at the University of Birmingham, thinks the ease of internet gambling poses a particular threat to women. "It's something you don't have to go out of the house to do, so women who stay at home are certainly at risk."
Orford is also highly critical of fixed odds betting terminals, and backs the High Streets First campaign. "The kind of games you play on them are not your old fruit machine games – these are casino-type games of a kind that used to be confined to casinos. Now, here they are on the high street. By their very nature, I'm not surprised they combine all the features you would expect that make gambling particularly dangerous."
Orford, who is launching a campaign group, Gambling Watch UK, thinks Tony Blair's government lifted the lid on gambling. "As a country we were really quite restrained about gambling. It wasn't advertised, it wasn't encouraged – it was a bit of a dirty word among most people. Then the national lottery came and made a difference. It got gambling advertised in a big way, and all the other gambling firms got together and asked for a level playing field so they could be advertised themselves. I think there has been an enormous rise in gambling and an enormous rise in the accessibility. Attitudes are changing slowly and we really should be worried about it."
Show More
Even a winning gambler must have negatives. A lot of times this game takes over peoples lifes and they become recluse. Spending little time with loved ones, etc. Gambling is a an addiction and if you are a winning gambler but spending 80 hours a week on here then that is a BIG problem. U need the right balance. It's just not about peopole losing money. Making it pay also has it's down falls.
Since the emergence of the exchange and on line casinos and now mobile phone casinos there are people gambling their lives away. Now they are advertising everywhere you look to get easy money off people.
I am intelligent to know that whether you back, lay, play casinos etc the only way you are going to be left is 1000's down over the years. It cannot be fun anymore for many people and becomes a habit or indeed a compulsion. I wish I could walk away from this but i doubt I ever will.
I am intelligent to know that whether you back, lay, play casinos etc the only way you are going to be left is 1000's down over the years. It cannot be fun anymore for many people and becomes a habit or indeed a compulsion. I wish I could walk away from this but i doubt I ever will.
krisken - some loved ones dont even speak or see their partners for months on end,they just send notes to each other,the man leaves his family to deal with the way of life hes chosen,
mind you i think you can buy yourself out of the army easier now - so they dont have to carry on do they.
mind you i think you can buy yourself out of the army easier now - so they dont have to carry on do they.
It can be a very lonely life if you are not in control
Nothing new about compulsive gamblers. Just different ways of doing their money. Greyhound Racing has lost thousands of them.
iwhadat - many things can take over your life,working 18hr days setting a business up,going to the pub every night all weekend,caring for someone who needs 24 hr care,
theres a attitude in this country ,that if your not working 6 days a week,and watching eastenders and x factor,and conforming to mass sterotyping of mudane lives - then somehow ,your lifes falling apart or going of the rails,or your heading for a diaster.
people are pigeon holed as addicts because they choose to focus too much time and money on a particular hobby,
theres a attitude in this country ,that if your not working 6 days a week,and watching eastenders and x factor,and conforming to mass sterotyping of mudane lives - then somehow ,your lifes falling apart or going of the rails,or your heading for a diaster.
people are pigeon holed as addicts because they choose to focus too much time and money on a particular hobby,
oh, it would be the guardian wouldn't it... god forbid that anyone should take responsibility for their own actions. I accept these people may have a self-destruct button, but I don't believe that gambling is an illness. Why is it that the woolly left, as soon as someone encounters a negative experience, always has to put the blame on the big-bad bookmakers/corporations/government etc. Why do they never ask why adults are incapable of controlling themselves, or taking responsibility for their own actions? Always the victim, never at fault.
In Eric Berne's The Games People Play he gives his view on Alcoholic's Annon and how he believes it just enables - if not demands - that people be victims. They are told they will always be alcholics, that they can never be cured. If everyone were to stop drinking long-term the group would have nothing to do.
I'm not dismissing the fact that people suffer through gambling, of course I accept that it ruins lives, but it's a risk and you play knowing that. Maybe we're all all arrogant to think that WE can do better than everyone else, but there are many other such risks. Many people who start their own businesses work themselves into an early grave and/or lose their homes when the business fails. Do you think that everyone who invests in the stock market wins?
What happened to adults (especially in this time of Internet) checking out risks before going ahead? We are responsible for our actions - no-one else.
In Eric Berne's The Games People Play he gives his view on Alcoholic's Annon and how he believes it just enables - if not demands - that people be victims. They are told they will always be alcholics, that they can never be cured. If everyone were to stop drinking long-term the group would have nothing to do.
I'm not dismissing the fact that people suffer through gambling, of course I accept that it ruins lives, but it's a risk and you play knowing that. Maybe we're all all arrogant to think that WE can do better than everyone else, but there are many other such risks. Many people who start their own businesses work themselves into an early grave and/or lose their homes when the business fails. Do you think that everyone who invests in the stock market wins?
What happened to adults (especially in this time of Internet) checking out risks before going ahead? We are responsible for our actions - no-one else.
re: people are pigeon holed as addicts because they choose to focus too much time and money on a particular hobby,
well said comingupthehill. It's a hard old game and you need to study, study, study - but if you're good the profits are there.
well said comingupthehill. It's a hard old game and you need to study, study, study - but if you're good the profits are there.
Kriskin 21 Apr 12 17:28
Even a winning gambler must have negatives. A lot of times this game takes over peoples lifes and they become recluse. Spending little time with loved ones, etc. Gambling is a an addiction and if you are a winning gambler but spending 80 hours a week on here then that is a BIG problem. U need the right balance. It's just not about peopole losing money. Making it pay also has it's down falls.
WHY is that a big problem though Kriskin? If you're not hurting anyone else and you're happy... who are you to tell others it's a problem? Not eveyone wants 2.2 (or whatever it is these days) children, not everyone wants to spend time with relatives they can't abide. You say gambling makes people unhappy, well I'd wager
there are a damn sight more unhappy people who were told that working 37.5 hours a week, having a family and slogging their guts out to pay a mortgage are a damn sight more unhappier.
As long as they're not hurting anyone else... an adult has the right to live their life as they want.
Even a winning gambler must have negatives. A lot of times this game takes over peoples lifes and they become recluse. Spending little time with loved ones, etc. Gambling is a an addiction and if you are a winning gambler but spending 80 hours a week on here then that is a BIG problem. U need the right balance. It's just not about peopole losing money. Making it pay also has it's down falls.
WHY is that a big problem though Kriskin? If you're not hurting anyone else and you're happy... who are you to tell others it's a problem? Not eveyone wants 2.2 (or whatever it is these days) children, not everyone wants to spend time with relatives they can't abide. You say gambling makes people unhappy, well I'd wager
there are a damn sight more unhappy people who were told that working 37.5 hours a week, having a family and slogging their guts out to pay a mortgage are a damn sight more unhappier.As long as they're not hurting anyone else... an adult has the right to live their life as they want.
If adults were capable of controlling themselves then there wouldn't be any addicts of any kind, nor as much crime and no clinics and medical establishments to help cure or treat them.
The very fact that it isn't the case for any of the above tells you all you need to know and when you have people from a very privileged background become addicted to something and then tell you they are addicts, that suggests that it's far from just a "woolly left" thing.
The very fact that it isn't the case for any of the above tells you all you need to know and when you have people from a very privileged background become addicted to something and then tell you they are addicts, that suggests that it's far from just a "woolly left" thing.
re: If adults were capable of controlling themselves then there wouldn't be any addicts of any kind, nor as much crime and no clinics and medical establishments to help cure or treat them.
But if you look at organisations such as AA or NA, the very ethos of that approach is that you'll never be cured - you will always be an addict. I think that such an approach absolves people of responsibility, by all means people may need help because they've made the wrong decisions and have suffered as a result... but to label someone an addict puts something else (gambling, drugs, whatever) in charge of them.
You're an adult - be in charge of yourself.
But if you look at organisations such as AA or NA, the very ethos of that approach is that you'll never be cured - you will always be an addict. I think that such an approach absolves people of responsibility, by all means people may need help because they've made the wrong decisions and have suffered as a result... but to label someone an addict puts something else (gambling, drugs, whatever) in charge of them.
You're an adult - be in charge of yourself.
Addiction is a social construct fuelled mainly by medicos who have a vested interest in perpetuating the 'medical model'. Gambling, drinking, drug use has existed, almost from the dawn of humans, to now. Only in the last 2/3 hundred years but partucularly (in Western society) the last hundred has this become such a problem. Largely related to economic viability of human resources and the need for a compes mentus workforce.
For every 'addict' (no matter the addiction) there's a raft of doctors/councellors/therapists, etc waiting to cure them. Funny no cure has been found.
Just my opinion of course
For every 'addict' (no matter the addiction) there's a raft of doctors/councellors/therapists, etc waiting to cure them. Funny no cure has been found.
Just my opinion of course
Well put it this way, try telling a 14 year old spotty youth to stop w@nking and see if he can make a fist of it (pun entirely intended) and there are adult sex addicts out there too or people who know smoking is killing them and have seen it kill others in the family but still do it anyway.
Even something like telling someone they aren't allowed to drink tea or coffee or eat chocolate for the rest of their lives would be really difficult for some to keep to......everyone has their own weakness or something they enjoy doing that would be hard for them to give up and we all know McDonald's food is sh1t but we all eat it from time to time or at least other forms of junk food anyway.
Even something like telling someone they aren't allowed to drink tea or coffee or eat chocolate for the rest of their lives would be really difficult for some to keep to......everyone has their own weakness or something they enjoy doing that would be hard for them to give up and we all know McDonald's food is sh1t but we all eat it from time to time or at least other forms of junk food anyway.
The reason no cure has been found is that there isn't one other than abstinence and those who can do that do and those who can't don't.
Whilst you can call an ex-smoker a non-smoker, most will still fancy one from time to time and might still always label themselves as non-smokers but you can't really be an ex-alcoholic can you? You're just an alcoholic who doesn't drink any more/is off the drink and the same probably applies to compulsive gamblers where they might well have stopped but the compulsion is still there, as opposed to someone who gambled a bit under control but then gave it up.
Whilst you can call an ex-smoker a non-smoker, most will still fancy one from time to time and might still always label themselves as non-smokers but you can't really be an ex-alcoholic can you? You're just an alcoholic who doesn't drink any more/is off the drink and the same probably applies to compulsive gamblers where they might well have stopped but the compulsion is still there, as opposed to someone who gambled a bit under control but then gave it up.
Ive always thought that people like to ACHIEVE.
A toilet cleaner (for ex) plants stuff in his garden & it all comes up lovely.
A MAN U supporter thats never been there wonders around the pub ....,.punching the air.....hes ACHIVED.
Some one thats backed the BIG WINNER & people are in ore of them.
The point that im trying to make is that UN ACHIEVERS or people that convince themselves that they are.................can be victims.
A toilet cleaner (for ex) plants stuff in his garden & it all comes up lovely.
A MAN U supporter thats never been there wonders around the pub ....,.punching the air.....hes ACHIVED.
Some one thats backed the BIG WINNER & people are in ore of them.
The point that im trying to make is that UN ACHIEVERS or people that convince themselves that they are.................can be victims.
Nice to see such an intelligent and understanding article, and also some intelligence from fellow forumites/(maybe addicts too).
I am not really an addict but I have a requirement to spend 10/15 hours a week on bf/gambling....so maybe a small addict.
I am not really an addict but I have a requirement to spend 10/15 hours a week on bf/gambling....so maybe a small addict.
Some excellent posts guys---I have a lot of time for Krispin's post, -- that even gamblers who "win", actually lose, because they are sacrificing most of their precious/one life, spending hour after hour on here!--------------in my own case, I have now reached the point in my gambling "journey" whereby I am NEVER happy !
If I back a loser, I am unhappy,----if I back a winner, I am unhappy that I didn't have more money on !
So, I bet rarely these days--usually when the weather's bad, and I'm bored, and then I lash a couple of Grand at a midweek meeting , where form means nothing, and if you aint "in the loop", you're gonna get fried ,-----(which I usually do )!
Luckily, I'm almost free of the chains now, and apart from my occassional mad couple of hours, --I just mainly read this forum, and then feel pity and contempt for the "idiots" who post, and admire the very knowledgeable people who share their viewswit others on here.
Anyway, ofcourse, it's a free world,--- so spend your time, and money, however you feel is "best" for you and your life----bye for now --GL
If I back a loser, I am unhappy,----if I back a winner, I am unhappy that I didn't have more money on !
So, I bet rarely these days--usually when the weather's bad, and I'm bored, and then I lash a couple of Grand at a midweek meeting , where form means nothing, and if you aint "in the loop", you're gonna get fried ,-----(which I usually do )!
Luckily, I'm almost free of the chains now, and apart from my occassional mad couple of hours, --I just mainly read this forum, and then feel pity and contempt for the "idiots" who post, and admire the very knowledgeable people who share their viewswit others on here.
Anyway, ofcourse, it's a free world,--- so spend your time, and money, however you feel is "best" for you and your life----bye for now --GL
I think it would be a tremendous gesture if all you people worried about problem gamblers asked Betfair to return money you have won on here back to the problem gamblers.
Well done.
Well done.
Telling it how it is doesn't have to mean you are worried and I'd imagine most compulsive gamblers wouldn't have a phone or PC long enough to still be doing it on here anyway...........oh and your analogy is a bit like asking a supermarket to give a drinker their money back too or expecting a pub landlord to give a customer their money back after refusing to serve them any more.
Last night before I went to bed I done a £10 Yankee on Harris Tweed, Best Terms, Caspar Netscher and Fury. I had 3 or 4 dreams about different results in the race, I woke up about 3 times and first thing I thought of was what's the time? Have I missed the 1st race!
spent nearly every minute of today glued to my phone or iPad betting.
I'm addicted and can't stop, I do enjoy it but wish I could switch off. As soon as I lose a few I start chasing and normally ends bad. Worse if I think I get unlucky (which I do a lot to be fair - check fury today for example lol).
I'd rather be an alcoholic
spent nearly every minute of today glued to my phone or iPad betting.
I'm addicted and can't stop, I do enjoy it but wish I could switch off. As soon as I lose a few I start chasing and normally ends bad. Worse if I think I get unlucky (which I do a lot to be fair - check fury today for example lol).
I'd rather be an alcoholic
Gambling is addictive, there is no question about that. Most people gamble through boredom. If a person gambles every day and wins long term are they looked upon as problem gamblers or is the definition of a compulsive gambler only applicable to someone who does their nuts and ruins there life?
My husband inono has been banned and he has asked me to post for him
He is winning - He is fed-up of the pretenders here
How can inono be banned for being honest
Honesty means nothing in society today
He is winning - He is fed-up of the pretenders here
How can inono be banned for being honest
Honesty means nothing in society today
pauli
21 Apr 12 12:22
Joined:
26 May 10
| Topic/replies: 2,656 | Blogger: pauli's blog
To me gambling is not an illness in the same way that alcoholism is. It is possible to be a shrewd gambler and actually make the game pay. As far as I am aware I have never met a shrewd alcoholic who makes drinking pay.
Surprised no one has replied to this post
This post is really funny
21 Apr 12 12:22
Joined:
26 May 10
| Topic/replies: 2,656 | Blogger: pauli's blog
To me gambling is not an illness in the same way that alcoholism is. It is possible to be a shrewd gambler and actually make the game pay. As far as I am aware I have never met a shrewd alcoholic who makes drinking pay.
Surprised no one has replied to this post
This post is really funny
Absolute disgrace inono being banned.............are the 98% losing going to be banned?
It is not an illness...............simply a weakness.......btw the subject above lost £100k over two decades........ffs what is the big deal about that?
i'm of to portugal for 4 days tomorrow and the same again a week after i come back.the reason i'm going there is that i can't access any of the accounts i've got.
some times i need a break from it all as at the moment i'm completely scunnered with it all and my head is about to explode.
any time i get a decent win i book a short 5* luxury break.
the problem is without the wins i would be going 3*
i don't really keep records of p\l so i don't know how much i'm up or down but i do know i'm an addict(haven't seen the g/f for a week because i've been on here day and night)
i don't really want for much and can go out and spend when i want but is it really worth it when it takes over your life
at least i get some thing out of it when others are skint all the time.
some times i need a break from it all as at the moment i'm completely scunnered with it all and my head is about to explode.
any time i get a decent win i book a short 5* luxury break.
the problem is without the wins i would be going 3*
i don't really keep records of p\l so i don't know how much i'm up or down but i do know i'm an addict(haven't seen the g/f for a week because i've been on here day and night)
i don't really want for much and can go out and spend when i want but is it really worth it when it takes over your life
at least i get some thing out of it when others are skint all the time.
Ffs stay off crack and stick to gambling........no wonder you feel sick.
There are plenty who both lose and win,it makes no difference to deciding whether that person has a problem or not, the definition of it is down to how much time it eats up of your life and whether you find yourself sacrificing other things in order to do it.
MillionaireMaker 21 Apr 12 21:41
Last night before I went to bed I done a £10 Yankee on Harris Tweed, Best Terms, Caspar Netscher and Fury. I had 3 or 4 dreams about different results in the race, I woke up about 3 times and first thing I thought of was what's the time? Have I missed the 1st race!
spent nearly every minute of today glued to my phone or iPad betting.
I'm addicted and can't stop, I do enjoy it but wish I could switch off. As soon as I lose a few I start chasing and normally ends bad. Worse if I think I get unlucky (which I do a lot to be fair - check fury today for example lol).
I'd rather be an alcoholic
Well if this really is the truth - why haven't you self-excluded? The option is there, it's there to help people who can't control their gambling. You say you can't control your gambling, so why haven't you taken it?
Last night before I went to bed I done a £10 Yankee on Harris Tweed, Best Terms, Caspar Netscher and Fury. I had 3 or 4 dreams about different results in the race, I woke up about 3 times and first thing I thought of was what's the time? Have I missed the 1st race!
spent nearly every minute of today glued to my phone or iPad betting.
I'm addicted and can't stop, I do enjoy it but wish I could switch off. As soon as I lose a few I start chasing and normally ends bad. Worse if I think I get unlucky (which I do a lot to be fair - check fury today for example lol).
I'd rather be an alcoholic
Well if this really is the truth - why haven't you self-excluded? The option is there, it's there to help people who can't control their gambling. You say you can't control your gambling, so why haven't you taken it?
about 15 years ago i got my wages on the friday afternoon and by tea time i was skint.the g/f at the time wanted to go clubbing and i told her i couldn't afford it and that if she went herself i would finish with her.
well she did and i dumped her,what a waste of 4 good years together and all because of my stupidity and stubbornness
well she did and i dumped her,what a waste of 4 good years together and all because of my stupidity and stubbornness
The difference between gambling and most other addictions is the element of greed......that is the factor rarely mentioned.
Punters who win want more those that lose will try and recoup the loss by chasing and even if they do recoup will seek to win more.Giving up gambling was the easiest thing I ever did,winning money is the simplest thing I have ever done.
Punters who win want more those that lose will try and recoup the loss by chasing and even if they do recoup will seek to win more.Giving up gambling was the easiest thing I ever did,winning money is the simplest thing I have ever done.
Oh well, at the end of the day there are millions of posters that do it here
I am am a touch despondent that my wife is not one of them
I am am a touch despondent that my wife is not one of them
emptied all my accounts at the start of the week and turned all money into euros.
sitting here with no funded account and going mental because i can't get a bet on footy or greyhounds tonight even though i've got a pocket full of euros.
can't even go to the pub ffs they won't accept them
sitting here with no funded account and going mental because i can't get a bet on footy or greyhounds tonight even though i've got a pocket full of euros.
can't even go to the pub ffs they won't accept them
I now have a future of doom and gloom due to being kicked out
Perhaps this is the way foeward
Perhaps this is the way foeward
I dont know why they make such a song and dance about punting addicts.......they never mention the blue rinse brigade at bingo every day or the new online bingo addicts.Deduct them from the figures,then deduct the alchy/druggy gambling addicts.......the unemployed idle fookers and the figures of decent people with jobs and gambling problems is hugely reduced.nap
The latter might accept/want help...........the others will carry on regardless.
The latter might accept/want help...........the others will carry on regardless.
Tamboy...........ring 555696969..............she accepts any currency........alternatively PM Laz...........he will pay you in any currency.hth
I used to spend 200 pounds a week following pigeon racing, the chaps always told me they would pay later if they arrived at the pub by 000-00 0 clock
Interesting thread.
Having worked in the business on and off for 25 years here's a few observations:
Gambling can be genuinely and powerfully addictive. Anyone who thinks it's just a matter of willpower or self-control doesn't understand what an addiction is. Urging a gambling addict to bet responsibly would be like telling George Best to limit himself to three units of alcohol a day.
Money lost represents only a fraction of the damage done. For an addict, children, spouse, friends, career, health and every other aspect of life becomes less important than the result of the 3:30 at Punchestown. As someone rightly argued earlier, anyone in this situation is a loser whatever the actual result of the horse race.
The true scale of addiction is incredibly hard to assess. I've worked in shops taking bets off the same people every day, and I'd struggle to say who had a problem and who didn't. Even so, amongst regular gamblers, addiction is almost certainly more prevalent than the industry will admit.
And although addicts may represent a minority of punters, their business is extremely valuable. It's quite possible that most of the industry's profits are generated by addicts. After all, the responsible, 'recreational' customer who blows a tenner once a week on a football accer isn't going to make anyone rich.
Generally, the issue seems to be getting more and more attention and, on balance, I think that's a good thing.
Having worked in the business on and off for 25 years here's a few observations:
Gambling can be genuinely and powerfully addictive. Anyone who thinks it's just a matter of willpower or self-control doesn't understand what an addiction is. Urging a gambling addict to bet responsibly would be like telling George Best to limit himself to three units of alcohol a day.
Money lost represents only a fraction of the damage done. For an addict, children, spouse, friends, career, health and every other aspect of life becomes less important than the result of the 3:30 at Punchestown. As someone rightly argued earlier, anyone in this situation is a loser whatever the actual result of the horse race.
The true scale of addiction is incredibly hard to assess. I've worked in shops taking bets off the same people every day, and I'd struggle to say who had a problem and who didn't. Even so, amongst regular gamblers, addiction is almost certainly more prevalent than the industry will admit.
And although addicts may represent a minority of punters, their business is extremely valuable. It's quite possible that most of the industry's profits are generated by addicts. After all, the responsible, 'recreational' customer who blows a tenner once a week on a football accer isn't going to make anyone rich.
Generally, the issue seems to be getting more and more attention and, on balance, I think that's a good thing.
^^^^^^^(having been a gambler for over 25 years I would like to have my say)
Although gambling can be addictive due too Adrenalin rises and that feeling of "risk" that is the result , too say all gambling is wrong would be incorrect as even many religions accept it as part of normal life and its one of mans oldest past times according too dicing artifacts found on many sites.
It could be true that the kind of gambling that general bookmakers propagate and indulge in encouragement into playing highly addictive gambling with hopeless over-rounds, unfairness too winners, encouragement into playing highly addictive machine generated quick risk games and the general bombardment of many events is not good for gamblers generally and has given gambling a very bad name since legislation of high-street operations of which the co-founder of Betfair who was a politician was against and hence his sons brain-child the sporting exchange has come into such huge popularity and we all thank him and betfair for a far greater and better betting experience that doesn't feel like we are taking on a big company at risk and are truly welcomed.
Although gambling can be addictive due too Adrenalin rises and that feeling of "risk" that is the result , too say all gambling is wrong would be incorrect as even many religions accept it as part of normal life and its one of mans oldest past times according too dicing artifacts found on many sites.
It could be true that the kind of gambling that general bookmakers propagate and indulge in encouragement into playing highly addictive gambling with hopeless over-rounds, unfairness too winners, encouragement into playing highly addictive machine generated quick risk games and the general bombardment of many events is not good for gamblers generally and has given gambling a very bad name since legislation of high-street operations of which the co-founder of Betfair who was a politician was against and hence his sons brain-child the sporting exchange has come into such huge popularity and we all thank him and betfair for a far greater and better betting experience that doesn't feel like we are taking on a big company at risk and are truly welcomed.
it is bookmakers that give gambling a bad name and not the mugs they they create!
This thread has really made me question my gambling. More the time I spend rather than the money I spend. With BF, you can spend alot of TIME gambling....I follow cricket, racing and footie, so on a day like today with 3 premier league games and 6 hours of amazing IPL cricket, I could spend the next 7 hours on here. I have a wife and a young daughter....I should be sending more time with them!!! I feel very pensive and sympathise with the serious addicts....I am just a small time addict...I am in my forties now and sensible. As a teenager, I left a bookies once I had done all my cash....I then had to walk 4 miles home as I would have done my bus fare money....That was only small change and helped me learn a bit.
Nice honest thread with so many elements I can relate to. I hope you all have a good think!
Nice honest thread with so many elements I can relate to. I hope you all have a good think!
I suppose its different now with so much sport that can be viewed through social media and television, any kind of habit can be insular,you often hear of people addicted to different things "Your always online, watching sport, soaps, tv chat shows, dating sites" can be levelled against a lot of people from both sexes and ages.
I find the basic lack of even general arithmetic and expectations about all walks of life relating to their own personal abilities a bit worrying
I find the basic lack of even general arithmetic and expectations about all walks of life relating to their own personal abilities a bit worrying
The brainwashing works Zilzal1 i am living proof. Mornings without jeremy kyle would not be a gas!
On the Beeb about a month ago there was a series of easy questions on arithmetic than apparently half the people in the country struggle with.
No wonder half the population cant manage money
No wonder half the population cant manage money
I dont feel that in anyway that im addicted........a hobby for me ...a puzzle to solve...my 1st look i normally see (say) 3 that im interested in.....Ill have £1 ew treb on ere........hundreds of pounds if I win........That LETS YER KNOW how much chance yer got 
I feel that the 1st sign that theres a problemis "bad temper" when you loose..........(not forgetting someone else wins)
Thell turn on you in the "betting shop" did you see that.....did you see what he did.....................I dont think that he did anything wrong IS THE WORST ANSWER TO GIVE
I feel that the 1st sign that theres a problemis "bad temper" when you loose..........(not forgetting someone else wins)
Thell turn on you in the "betting shop" did you see that.....did you see what he did.....................I dont think that he did anything wrong IS THE WORST ANSWER TO GIVE
Yes the elite schools Eton etc,they only teach greed.
yesterday morning at 8:32 in my local joes a chinsese lady pushed in front of me waving her bank card, the cashier looked at me I said no probs, she stuck her card in the machine and asked for £400 on the corner machine walked over to baldies couple minutes later all 4 machines on the go.
Illness, weakness whatever one for sure has to happen and that is the naked and gratutitus exploitation of these people by bookmakers has to be stopped.
Illness, weakness whatever one for sure has to happen and that is the naked and gratutitus exploitation of these people by bookmakers has to be stopped.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
that's just some one with too much money gained from smuggling illegal immigrants into the country imo.
that's just some one with too much money gained from smuggling illegal immigrants into the country imo.
I think thats the point tamb these machines ultimately become filled with money gained from crime.
As with all addictions when you can no longer finance your fix, people turn to crime to pay for it. Which then spreads out to the wider population the likes of you and me when we come home and find our houses and cars has been broken into, people we know and work with get maxed out on there credit cards, there relationships break up they lost there jobs and to come to the point the taxpayer ends up with the bill for there additions
Meanwhile bookies post returns amounting to a £1 000 000 aday profits from them, but hey what the fcuk
As with all addictions when you can no longer finance your fix, people turn to crime to pay for it. Which then spreads out to the wider population the likes of you and me when we come home and find our houses and cars has been broken into, people we know and work with get maxed out on there credit cards, there relationships break up they lost there jobs and to come to the point the taxpayer ends up with the bill for there additions
Meanwhile bookies post returns amounting to a £1 000 000 aday profits from them, but hey what the fcuk
Chinese love gambling and are very prone to getting over-involved but lets be honest if BF was available in China liquidity would sky rocket
well here's a question for everyone on here (and betfair)... why aren't BF in China?
My local betting shop hold regular competitions on their Gaming machine. "Want to enter the competition luv, it`s FREE 10 minute play on the machine and the winner, with most mythical profit gets a FREE £50 bet". Trying to get people hooked on machines, IMO.
no - they re just advertising /promoting ,they have every right to push there products,its only m,entally adictive not physically,so they have a choice.
I've just read this entire thread.
I haven't time to say anything myself right now.
I'm only posting this so as to easily find the thread again, as I'm not on here, or any of the racing forums, so much at the moment.
Some really interesting and heartfelt posts here...please keep them coming.
I haven't time to say anything myself right now.
I'm only posting this so as to easily find the thread again, as I'm not on here, or any of the racing forums, so much at the moment.
Some really interesting and heartfelt posts here...please keep them coming.
Do firms really 'have every right to push their products?'
Giving potential victims free goes on FOBTs in the knowledge that some of them will become hooked seems morally wrong to me.
There was a time when it would certainly have been illegal. When I started in the busines the core principle behind gambling regulation was that betting should be allowed but not encouraged. I don't see what was wrong with that approach.
Giving potential victims free goes on FOBTs in the knowledge that some of them will become hooked seems morally wrong to me.
There was a time when it would certainly have been illegal. When I started in the busines the core principle behind gambling regulation was that betting should be allowed but not encouraged. I don't see what was wrong with that approach.
All addictions like this are rooted in your upbringing. Blame the parents, no one else.
Why must blame come into it? Some are weak some are strong, some like apples some like tomatoes. Life cannot be sanitised, nor people homogenised.
Laz luv has been homogenised...........how do you explain that saddo?
I think Pauli sums it up perfectly. It can't be seen as an illness, as many people who know how to gamble benefit from gambling. No alcoholics do not benefit from alcoholism. Gambling affects a lot of people in severe ways, but the fact that there are many professional gamblers out there and many people who do not let it get the better of them proves it can not be considered as an illness.
If gambling is an illness then the directors of banks and the players on the real money exchanges whom are the greatest risk takers must be pretty sicker considering the amount of trouble historically they have caused!
I am afraid competition is hard wired into all of us and there for a reason!
BETFAIR RECKS OUR LIVES AND LEAVES US IN THE GUTTER SELF EXCLUDE IS THE BEST THING I COULD DO AND SPEND TIME WITH MY KIDS BUT IM ADDICTED SO THE FIGHT WITH BETFAIR GOES ON.... GREAT 1ST POST LOTS OF INTERESTING POINTS.
HEARD IN A LOCAL LADDIES.
"IF YOU SEE MR X (THE SELF EXCLUDED ONE) OFFER HIM SOME FREE BETS AND SPINS"
RESPONSABLE FIRM MY STARFISH
"IF YOU SEE MR X (THE SELF EXCLUDED ONE) OFFER HIM SOME FREE BETS AND SPINS"
RESPONSABLE FIRM MY STARFISH
been gambling for 22 years and can honestly say if it wasnt for those evil addictive terminals i wouldnt be in the position im in today ,2006-2009 i spunked just over 60000 on those pieces of ****,one way ticket to the poor house,thank god for betfair
oh and by the way ive self excluded my self from the online casino on betfair aswell,just stick to footy and nags
"IF YOU SEE MR X (THE SELF EXCLUDED ONE) OFFER HIM SOME FREE BETS AND SPINS"
No surprise at all. It's the dirty little secret of the gambling industry that a significant portion of their profits come from problem gamblers. They have no incentive to stop them - quite the opposite in fact.
No surprise at all. It's the dirty little secret of the gambling industry that a significant portion of their profits come from problem gamblers. They have no incentive to stop them - quite the opposite in fact.
i walked into a bookie from an area i hadnt been in 10 years ago.
and i regonised 2 punters
my betting is mainly sat now---budgeted for
its a thin line to compulsive
and i regonised 2 punters
my betting is mainly sat now---budgeted for
its a thin line to compulsive
Paul Merson at the height of his, gambling, alcohol and cocaine addicted era always said the thing that most destroyed him was gambling by far.
A shop manager I know had a big hitting Polish firm regularly playing in his shop. 2 or 3 £1000 footballl bets and the same amount on roulette pretty much everyday. They were losing obscene amounts. One day they all walked in and self excluded themselves
The district managers reaction was to say "well, that's this shop fked then".
A shop manager I know had a big hitting Polish firm regularly playing in his shop. 2 or 3 £1000 footballl bets and the same amount on roulette pretty much everyday. They were losing obscene amounts. One day they all walked in and self excluded themselves
The district managers reaction was to say "well, that's this shop fked then".
wigansteve
I think Pauli sums it up perfectly. It can't be seen as an illness, as many people who know how to gamble benefit from gambling. No alcoholics do not benefit from alcoholism. Gambling affects a lot of people in severe ways, but the fact that there are many professional gamblers out there and many people who do not let it get the better of them proves it can not be considered as an illness.
You're comparing two different things there.
Gambling itself is the "product" just as alcohol is the product and it's not the product itself that is the problem it's how some people use it and the effects it has one them. Alcoholism is a result of over indulgence or a dependency on the product but the product itself doesn't automatically have to be a problem for everyone.
I think many gamblers on here don't like to admit it's an illness because they either have the problem themselves and don't want to admit it or have their gambling under control and don't want to be lumped in and labelled with those that are addicts but nobody is saying you must be an addict if you gamble, just as nobody is saying you must be an alcoholic if you drink......many people benefit from alcohol too but aren't alcoholics, it's only a problem if you use it to the extreme and it's the same with gambling.
I think Pauli sums it up perfectly. It can't be seen as an illness, as many people who know how to gamble benefit from gambling. No alcoholics do not benefit from alcoholism. Gambling affects a lot of people in severe ways, but the fact that there are many professional gamblers out there and many people who do not let it get the better of them proves it can not be considered as an illness.
You're comparing two different things there.
Gambling itself is the "product" just as alcohol is the product and it's not the product itself that is the problem it's how some people use it and the effects it has one them. Alcoholism is a result of over indulgence or a dependency on the product but the product itself doesn't automatically have to be a problem for everyone.
I think many gamblers on here don't like to admit it's an illness because they either have the problem themselves and don't want to admit it or have their gambling under control and don't want to be lumped in and labelled with those that are addicts but nobody is saying you must be an addict if you gamble, just as nobody is saying you must be an alcoholic if you drink......many people benefit from alcohol too but aren't alcoholics, it's only a problem if you use it to the extreme and it's the same with gambling.
Grimsby woman locked up for fleecing widow, 81, out of £9,000
Monday, April 23, 2012
Grimsby Telegraph
FRAUDSTER Jayne Jallow has been jailed after "wickedly" betraying the trust of an 81-year-old widow and fleecing her of more than £9,000.
She used the pensioner's cash to buy herself a car and spent more of it on betting and buying goods, a court heard.
Jallow, 30, of Curry Road, Grimsby, admitted 10 dishonesty offences, including theft, fraud and using the proceeds of crime.
Today the victim, a retired sister at a maternity hospital, said she was pleased by the sentence.
The woman, who asked not to be identified said: "When I heard she had been locked up, I cried. It is like a heavy load has been lifted from me."
She added: "She took me out on shopping trips in a car that she bought with my money and used my money to buy things for herself."
Phillip Evans, prosecuting, told Grimsby Crown Court that Jallow – better known under her previous name of Jayne Sleeth – was one of several neighbours who befriended the pensioner and helped her after she slipped on a pavement in December during heavy snow.
Jallow later visited the widow, did errands and took her out. She was a daily visitor between January and March last year and knew where the pensioner kept her money, bank card, spare key and PINs.
The woman discovered that she could not find her bank cards and passport. Her son investigated and it was discovered that large amounts of cash had been withdrawn from her accounts after being transferred.
Jallow's home was searched and a letter was found, supposedly signed by the pensioner and showing that Jallow had been given authority to manage the accounts.
The signature page of the passport had been used as part of setting up fraudulent activities. Her signature had been "traced over" and used in the scams, including the letter of authority. A laptop showed internet banking transactions.
A total of £6,064 cash had been stolen or obtained and a further £3,000 had gone on buying a car. Jallow had set up accounts with two local bookmakers.
Mr Evans said Jallow had a long list of previous convictions, including burglary, and in previous years had a "constant career entering people's houses and stealing".
The victim told the Grimsby Telegraph how she avoids going shopping for fear of bumping into Jallow.
"I find it difficult to trust anyone anymore," she said. "It did not dawn on me at the time that I was being conned.
"After my fall, she made cups of tea for me and offered to take me out. I did not doubt her because she was friends of people I knew. I thought she was just a nice person.
"It wasn't until weeks later that my son and I became suspicious and we found out money had gone missing."
Steven Freestone, mitigating, said Jallow made admissions, regretted her behaviour and had been in custody for 80 days. She had significant problems in her life.
Recorder Paul Watson QC told Jallow: "You befriended this poor woman. She trusted you. You took advantage of that friendship and trust to appropriate for yourself the best part of £10,000.
"You don't need me to lecture you on the wickedness of this behaviour – taking advantage of the trust and naivete of this lady and the confidence she bestowed in you was thrown back in her face."
Jallow was jailed for a year but, because of the time she has spent in custody and the early release of prisoners, she is likely to be released within weeks.
The car, valued at £3,000, will be confiscated and sold by the police in an effort to recoup some of the stolen money.
Monday, April 23, 2012
Grimsby Telegraph
FRAUDSTER Jayne Jallow has been jailed after "wickedly" betraying the trust of an 81-year-old widow and fleecing her of more than £9,000.
She used the pensioner's cash to buy herself a car and spent more of it on betting and buying goods, a court heard.
Jallow, 30, of Curry Road, Grimsby, admitted 10 dishonesty offences, including theft, fraud and using the proceeds of crime.
Today the victim, a retired sister at a maternity hospital, said she was pleased by the sentence.
The woman, who asked not to be identified said: "When I heard she had been locked up, I cried. It is like a heavy load has been lifted from me."
She added: "She took me out on shopping trips in a car that she bought with my money and used my money to buy things for herself."
Phillip Evans, prosecuting, told Grimsby Crown Court that Jallow – better known under her previous name of Jayne Sleeth – was one of several neighbours who befriended the pensioner and helped her after she slipped on a pavement in December during heavy snow.
Jallow later visited the widow, did errands and took her out. She was a daily visitor between January and March last year and knew where the pensioner kept her money, bank card, spare key and PINs.
The woman discovered that she could not find her bank cards and passport. Her son investigated and it was discovered that large amounts of cash had been withdrawn from her accounts after being transferred.
Jallow's home was searched and a letter was found, supposedly signed by the pensioner and showing that Jallow had been given authority to manage the accounts.
The signature page of the passport had been used as part of setting up fraudulent activities. Her signature had been "traced over" and used in the scams, including the letter of authority. A laptop showed internet banking transactions.
A total of £6,064 cash had been stolen or obtained and a further £3,000 had gone on buying a car. Jallow had set up accounts with two local bookmakers.
Mr Evans said Jallow had a long list of previous convictions, including burglary, and in previous years had a "constant career entering people's houses and stealing".
The victim told the Grimsby Telegraph how she avoids going shopping for fear of bumping into Jallow.
"I find it difficult to trust anyone anymore," she said. "It did not dawn on me at the time that I was being conned.
"After my fall, she made cups of tea for me and offered to take me out. I did not doubt her because she was friends of people I knew. I thought she was just a nice person.
"It wasn't until weeks later that my son and I became suspicious and we found out money had gone missing."
Steven Freestone, mitigating, said Jallow made admissions, regretted her behaviour and had been in custody for 80 days. She had significant problems in her life.
Recorder Paul Watson QC told Jallow: "You befriended this poor woman. She trusted you. You took advantage of that friendship and trust to appropriate for yourself the best part of £10,000.
"You don't need me to lecture you on the wickedness of this behaviour – taking advantage of the trust and naivete of this lady and the confidence she bestowed in you was thrown back in her face."
Jallow was jailed for a year but, because of the time she has spent in custody and the early release of prisoners, she is likely to be released within weeks.
The car, valued at £3,000, will be confiscated and sold by the police in an effort to recoup some of the stolen money.
I was a shop manager and we had a big punter who used to tip us every time he won even though he lost a lot overall.
We were really upset when he went to prison for embezzlement.
We were really upset when he went to prison for embezzlement.
Rise of the machines
Why betting shops are thriving: The Economist http://www.economist.com
THE Hope pub in Peckham, a rundown part of south London, closed a few years ago. Beneath its faded sign, there is now a Paddy Power betting shop, its green shopfront offering punters the latest odds on football matches and horse races. There are seven more betting shops within walking distance. On an otherwise quiet morning, all of them seem busy.
Despite the rise of online gambling websites and pinched economic times, Britain’s bookmakers are faring well. Between 2009 and 2011 the number of high-street betting shops increased slightly, from 8,862 to 9,067. Last year their gross gambling yield—a measure of profit before operating costs—increased by 5%. In Southwark, the borough of which Peckham is a part, there are now 77 betting shops.
This does not reflect a revival of the working-class tradition of gambling on dog racing or horses. That is declining, even as licensing fees for screening matches and races have gone up. Instead, bookies are being kept alive by fixed-odds touch-screen casino machines (see chart http://www.economist.com/node/21552601 ). These can take thousands of pounds an hour in bets, either in cash or from a credit card. In a fiercely competitive industry, executives privately gush about how they allow bookies to make more money with fewer employees and overheads (betting shops have shed one-tenth of their staff in the past two years). Between 2006 and 2010 the number of machines doubled from around 16,000 to 32,000. Last year the yield they earned increased by 10%, to £1.3 billion ($2.1 billion).
In Peckham, a group of Nigerian immigrants stands around a machine, debating strategies. One feeds £20 notes into it, placing bets of around £5 on a virtual roulette table every minute or so. “This is not a good game”, he says, “but sometimes you win”. A cleaner in the City, he claims to have won as much as £1,500 on occasion. He has lost equally large amounts. He hangs out in the betting shop partly for the camaraderie.
According to research for the Gambling Commission, the industry’s regulator, he is typical of the new type of punter. The people who use betting-shop machines are more likely than other gamblers to work in low-paid jobs or to be unemployed. Many are immigrants—the Chinese in particular tend to gamble more—and most are men. Betting shops are thus booming in areas like Peckham, where the economic prospects are thin and where there are lots of migrants, even as the industry is squeezed elsewhere. Regulations which restrict the number of gambling machines a shop can contain intensify the move into poorer areas, as chains seek out areas with lower rents to open more shops.
This expansion is provoking a reaction from left-wing campaigners. Harriet Harman, the Labour Party’s shadow culture secretary and the local MP in Peckham, complains that the industry has created a “casino on every high street”. David Lammy, another London Labour MP, points out that his constituency of Tottenham has 38 bookmakers—but no bookshops. Both worry about the social costs of gambling and the health of high streets dominated by betting shops and payday lending outfits. So far 35 MPs, mostly from the Labour Party, are calling for a cap on stakes and prizes.
But perhaps the biggest threat to the bookies is not regulation but an economic recovery, which would drive them out of their low-rent havens. Industry folk say the number of shops may have started falling this year, as competition drives down yields and rents start to climb again. When prosperity returns, the odds might turn against the bookies
Why betting shops are thriving: The Economist http://www.economist.com
THE Hope pub in Peckham, a rundown part of south London, closed a few years ago. Beneath its faded sign, there is now a Paddy Power betting shop, its green shopfront offering punters the latest odds on football matches and horse races. There are seven more betting shops within walking distance. On an otherwise quiet morning, all of them seem busy.
Despite the rise of online gambling websites and pinched economic times, Britain’s bookmakers are faring well. Between 2009 and 2011 the number of high-street betting shops increased slightly, from 8,862 to 9,067. Last year their gross gambling yield—a measure of profit before operating costs—increased by 5%. In Southwark, the borough of which Peckham is a part, there are now 77 betting shops.
This does not reflect a revival of the working-class tradition of gambling on dog racing or horses. That is declining, even as licensing fees for screening matches and races have gone up. Instead, bookies are being kept alive by fixed-odds touch-screen casino machines (see chart http://www.economist.com/node/21552601 ). These can take thousands of pounds an hour in bets, either in cash or from a credit card. In a fiercely competitive industry, executives privately gush about how they allow bookies to make more money with fewer employees and overheads (betting shops have shed one-tenth of their staff in the past two years). Between 2006 and 2010 the number of machines doubled from around 16,000 to 32,000. Last year the yield they earned increased by 10%, to £1.3 billion ($2.1 billion).
In Peckham, a group of Nigerian immigrants stands around a machine, debating strategies. One feeds £20 notes into it, placing bets of around £5 on a virtual roulette table every minute or so. “This is not a good game”, he says, “but sometimes you win”. A cleaner in the City, he claims to have won as much as £1,500 on occasion. He has lost equally large amounts. He hangs out in the betting shop partly for the camaraderie.
According to research for the Gambling Commission, the industry’s regulator, he is typical of the new type of punter. The people who use betting-shop machines are more likely than other gamblers to work in low-paid jobs or to be unemployed. Many are immigrants—the Chinese in particular tend to gamble more—and most are men. Betting shops are thus booming in areas like Peckham, where the economic prospects are thin and where there are lots of migrants, even as the industry is squeezed elsewhere. Regulations which restrict the number of gambling machines a shop can contain intensify the move into poorer areas, as chains seek out areas with lower rents to open more shops.
This expansion is provoking a reaction from left-wing campaigners. Harriet Harman, the Labour Party’s shadow culture secretary and the local MP in Peckham, complains that the industry has created a “casino on every high street”. David Lammy, another London Labour MP, points out that his constituency of Tottenham has 38 bookmakers—but no bookshops. Both worry about the social costs of gambling and the health of high streets dominated by betting shops and payday lending outfits. So far 35 MPs, mostly from the Labour Party, are calling for a cap on stakes and prizes.
But perhaps the biggest threat to the bookies is not regulation but an economic recovery, which would drive them out of their low-rent havens. Industry folk say the number of shops may have started falling this year, as competition drives down yields and rents start to climb again. When prosperity returns, the odds might turn against the bookies
Serves the fookers in Peckham right for demolishing Nelson Mandela House and crushing free enterprise by banning the Peckham Spring Water,Holy Wine and the Nags Head.IMVO
GT, there is still a Nags Head pub in Peckham that is alive and well.
I know the PP shop in Peckham also, that is one crazy shop for sure.
I know the PP shop in Peckham also, that is one crazy shop for sure.
Good to know they cant grind everything into the ground.
Myself and ilwab and one or two others have always enjoyed the Stags Head.
Myself and ilwab and one or two others have always enjoyed the Stags Head.
I still think i can turn £10 into a £100....the £100 into 1K...the 1K into 10k...the 10K into 100K...The 100K into 200K.....then i ccan buy a house. In my head it only takes 2 years of discipline. Beats working your whole life..
Easier to stop gambling AG.........hard work studying........cultivating contacts.....going racing and basic arithmetic i.e knowledge is the only way unless you are a layer when mathematics are everything.
Dont view a bet as a gamble,see it as an investment.If it fails move on but not to the next gambling opportunity.......to the next opportunity when you can see when the odds are in your favour........using your experience and knowledge.
Dont view a bet as a gamble,see it as an investment.If it fails move on but not to the next gambling opportunity.......to the next opportunity when you can see when the odds are in your favour........using your experience and knowledge.
nothing wrong with those thoughts Angel Gabriel, I'm on much the same track. Slow and steady can do it.
Roulette in betting shops? It's all political spin
http://www.newstatesman.com
ADVERTORIAL: The Fairer Gambling Campaign warns against the dangers of addictive betting machines.
By Derek Webb Published 24 April 2012
Gambling machines known as B2s were introduced into UK betting shops in 2001, at which point they were referred to as Fixed Odds Betting Terminals (FOBTs). At that time UK betting shops were unregulated, and bookmakers avoided restrictions on gambling machines by claiming that FOBTs were used to "bet" on events occurring on software located outside the shop.
During the first decade of operation, the growth of FOBTs can best be described as explosive. From nothing ten years earlier, the amount won by FOBTs in the year 2010-11 rose to £1.3 billion, far surpassing the £0.8 billion won by UK casinos. This is indicative of the presence of addictive content. FOBTs have now become so lucrative that operators are opening multiple shops in single locations to saturate communities with these money-spinning machines.
FOBTs proved a major focus for the Select Committee Inquiry into the effectiveness of the 2005 Gambling Act, with Richard Caborn, a previous Department of Culture Media and Sport (DCMS) Minister, admitting: "something had to be done [about FOBTs] but the government was powerless [prior to 2005]." The UK Government had the power to ban FOBTs altogether (as the Irish authorities have) through the 2005 Gambling Act, but there were a few political hurdles preventing such action:
1. The Government wanted to sell the Tote betting shops, which were enjoying large profits from FOBTs
2. The Government was receiving high amounts of tax revenue from FOBT profits
3. The bookmaking lobby had, and still has, many influential friends in politics
Local authorities are required to "aim to permit" licensing of betting premises, with one licensing condition being that the primary activity be over-the-counter betting. Certain bookmaker’s accounts show only 20% of turnover in shops is now on betting, with 80% coming from FOBTs. This means that shops are in breach of their licenses, but The UK Gambling Commission (UKGC) is "comfortable" with this situation.
Breaking the Code
In November 2003, the DCMS, Gaming Board of Great Britain, and Association of British Bookmakers (representing around 85% of bookmakers in Great Britain) agreed a Code of Conduct as a theoretical control over FOBTs.
One stipulation of the new Code was that the only casino-type game allowed on FOBTs would be roulette. That rule was quickly broken, and
blackjack and other games soon started appearing on FOBTs. Now the operators want to move the Code’s goal posts again, this time by increasing
the number of machines allowed per shop from 4 to 6.
At that time the Code was agreed Tessa Jowell was in charge of the DCMS, and stated that FOBTs would be "on probation." The logical assumption
is that because the UKGC oversees licensing, it also has the role of monitoring FOBT probation. The UKGC position is, however, that: "whether the machines are on probation or not is a matter of DCMS policy".
During the drafting of the 2005 Gambling Act, FOBTs were reclassified as gaming (rather than betting) machines. This meant there was no need to maintain the illusion of "betting" on external events, and that result generating software could be located within the machine itself.
2005 Gambling Act Licensing Objective 1 - Prevention of Problem Gambling
At a recent hearing of the aforementioned Inquiry, a question about problem gambling related to FOBTs prompted the responsible Sectary of State, John Penrose, to ask for "firm evidence [that FOBTs cause problem gambling], not anecdote or concern". The Fairer Gambling campaign believes Mr Penrose should consider the following points :
1. If FOBTs are on probation, and the UKGC is responsible for enforcing the objective to prevent problem gambling; why is government and UKGC not already engaged in obtaining the evidence it needs? Surely there needs to be a method of assessing whether the objectives of the Act are being met?
2. If government wants proof "beyond reasonable doubt" and is of the opinion that academic research will not deliver this; is government implying
that no evidence level would be adequate?
3. The New Statesman has published a blog on the subject for a number of years, amassing thousands of posts. To take one recently publicised
case, David Armstrong of Norwich admitted that his FOBT addiction had cost him £100,000 over the past 4 years. Due to the sheer volume of these cases, they are not mere anecdotes - they are real people with real problems.
4. The British Gambling Prevalence Survey (BGPS) 2010 showed a 50% increase in problem gambling since the previous survey in 2007. It identified 18 gambling activities, and highlighted 5 activities as having the highest prevalence of problem gambling. Of those 5 activities, the one at which participants engaged in the least number of other gambling activities was FOBTs, showing that FOBTs are the primary driver of UK problem gambling.
5. Further, the BGPS showed that compared to the other 17 activities, FOBTS have:
a.) The joint highest ratio of use by 16 to 24 year old gamblers
b.) The second highest ratio of use by unemployed gamblers
c.) The highest ratio of use by the lowest income quintile gamblers
d.) The third highest ratio of at-risk high-time and high-spend gamblers
6. Astoundingly, the average win per FOBT per hour used (not per hour accessible) is over £30. However the BPGS identified gamblers losing only £7 per hour as high-spend gamblers. Put simply, the BGPS, whilst correctly identifying the trends, is only revealing a fraction of the reality of problem gambling.
7. For casino roulette, the amount the players lose as a percentage of the amount of player funds used (the retention percentage) is 15%. For FOBTs, the UKGC does not obtain the retention percentage and the bookmakers don't make it public. Given that roulette is the main game (over 90% of play) on FOBTs, FOBT roulette is over 3 times faster than casino roulette, and FOBT players have generally lower funds than casino players, the FOBT retention percentage could be as high as 50% or even 75%. A high retention percentage on a high volume activity is clear evidence of addictive content.
8. The Fairer Gambling Campaign made a written submission to the DCMS hearing referencing this evidence, but was not permitted to give oral evidence. This was not surprising, as a previous advert of the campaign had attracted one objection - from the politicians of the All-Party Betting and Gaming Committee.
2005 Gambling Act Licensing Objective 2 - Prevention of Crime Associated with Gambling
Operators are clustering betting shops in poorer areas simply to maximize FOBT profits. These premises are resourced with minimal staff on low wages, giving underage and non-sober gamblers easy access to the addictive content on FOBTs. There has been an escalation of crime in betting shops since the introduction of FOBTs. Robberies and assaults on staff are everyday occurrences and criminal damage on premises is often going unreported.
2005 Gambling Act Licensing Objective 3 - Fair and Open Gambling
An FOBT can take up to £100 per spin (every 20 seconds) compared to a £2 maximum on a slot machine in more highly taxed and heavily regulated casinos. FOBT players are not informed that the roulette result is determined before the virtual ball starts spinning or of the FOBT retention percentage. There is zero consideration of consumer protection.
Final thoughts
Politicians seemingly apathetic attitude is motivated by a desire to protect the bookmakers and the tax revenue generated on the back of legally questionable FOBT profits from problem gamblers in poor communities.
This is not the Big Society, and it's not joined-up government. FOBTs are being operated in breach of all three licensing objectives. If the Government is not willing to solve the FOBT issue that it has itself created, how can it be trusted to solve anything?
More information available at www.FairerGambling.co.uk
http://www.newstatesman.com
ADVERTORIAL: The Fairer Gambling Campaign warns against the dangers of addictive betting machines.
By Derek Webb Published 24 April 2012
Gambling machines known as B2s were introduced into UK betting shops in 2001, at which point they were referred to as Fixed Odds Betting Terminals (FOBTs). At that time UK betting shops were unregulated, and bookmakers avoided restrictions on gambling machines by claiming that FOBTs were used to "bet" on events occurring on software located outside the shop.
During the first decade of operation, the growth of FOBTs can best be described as explosive. From nothing ten years earlier, the amount won by FOBTs in the year 2010-11 rose to £1.3 billion, far surpassing the £0.8 billion won by UK casinos. This is indicative of the presence of addictive content. FOBTs have now become so lucrative that operators are opening multiple shops in single locations to saturate communities with these money-spinning machines.
FOBTs proved a major focus for the Select Committee Inquiry into the effectiveness of the 2005 Gambling Act, with Richard Caborn, a previous Department of Culture Media and Sport (DCMS) Minister, admitting: "something had to be done [about FOBTs] but the government was powerless [prior to 2005]." The UK Government had the power to ban FOBTs altogether (as the Irish authorities have) through the 2005 Gambling Act, but there were a few political hurdles preventing such action:
1. The Government wanted to sell the Tote betting shops, which were enjoying large profits from FOBTs
2. The Government was receiving high amounts of tax revenue from FOBT profits
3. The bookmaking lobby had, and still has, many influential friends in politics
Local authorities are required to "aim to permit" licensing of betting premises, with one licensing condition being that the primary activity be over-the-counter betting. Certain bookmaker’s accounts show only 20% of turnover in shops is now on betting, with 80% coming from FOBTs. This means that shops are in breach of their licenses, but The UK Gambling Commission (UKGC) is "comfortable" with this situation.
Breaking the Code
In November 2003, the DCMS, Gaming Board of Great Britain, and Association of British Bookmakers (representing around 85% of bookmakers in Great Britain) agreed a Code of Conduct as a theoretical control over FOBTs.
One stipulation of the new Code was that the only casino-type game allowed on FOBTs would be roulette. That rule was quickly broken, and
blackjack and other games soon started appearing on FOBTs. Now the operators want to move the Code’s goal posts again, this time by increasing
the number of machines allowed per shop from 4 to 6.
At that time the Code was agreed Tessa Jowell was in charge of the DCMS, and stated that FOBTs would be "on probation." The logical assumption
is that because the UKGC oversees licensing, it also has the role of monitoring FOBT probation. The UKGC position is, however, that: "whether the machines are on probation or not is a matter of DCMS policy".
During the drafting of the 2005 Gambling Act, FOBTs were reclassified as gaming (rather than betting) machines. This meant there was no need to maintain the illusion of "betting" on external events, and that result generating software could be located within the machine itself.
2005 Gambling Act Licensing Objective 1 - Prevention of Problem Gambling
At a recent hearing of the aforementioned Inquiry, a question about problem gambling related to FOBTs prompted the responsible Sectary of State, John Penrose, to ask for "firm evidence [that FOBTs cause problem gambling], not anecdote or concern". The Fairer Gambling campaign believes Mr Penrose should consider the following points :
1. If FOBTs are on probation, and the UKGC is responsible for enforcing the objective to prevent problem gambling; why is government and UKGC not already engaged in obtaining the evidence it needs? Surely there needs to be a method of assessing whether the objectives of the Act are being met?
2. If government wants proof "beyond reasonable doubt" and is of the opinion that academic research will not deliver this; is government implying
that no evidence level would be adequate?
3. The New Statesman has published a blog on the subject for a number of years, amassing thousands of posts. To take one recently publicised
case, David Armstrong of Norwich admitted that his FOBT addiction had cost him £100,000 over the past 4 years. Due to the sheer volume of these cases, they are not mere anecdotes - they are real people with real problems.
4. The British Gambling Prevalence Survey (BGPS) 2010 showed a 50% increase in problem gambling since the previous survey in 2007. It identified 18 gambling activities, and highlighted 5 activities as having the highest prevalence of problem gambling. Of those 5 activities, the one at which participants engaged in the least number of other gambling activities was FOBTs, showing that FOBTs are the primary driver of UK problem gambling.
5. Further, the BGPS showed that compared to the other 17 activities, FOBTS have:
a.) The joint highest ratio of use by 16 to 24 year old gamblers
b.) The second highest ratio of use by unemployed gamblers
c.) The highest ratio of use by the lowest income quintile gamblers
d.) The third highest ratio of at-risk high-time and high-spend gamblers
6. Astoundingly, the average win per FOBT per hour used (not per hour accessible) is over £30. However the BPGS identified gamblers losing only £7 per hour as high-spend gamblers. Put simply, the BGPS, whilst correctly identifying the trends, is only revealing a fraction of the reality of problem gambling.
7. For casino roulette, the amount the players lose as a percentage of the amount of player funds used (the retention percentage) is 15%. For FOBTs, the UKGC does not obtain the retention percentage and the bookmakers don't make it public. Given that roulette is the main game (over 90% of play) on FOBTs, FOBT roulette is over 3 times faster than casino roulette, and FOBT players have generally lower funds than casino players, the FOBT retention percentage could be as high as 50% or even 75%. A high retention percentage on a high volume activity is clear evidence of addictive content.
8. The Fairer Gambling Campaign made a written submission to the DCMS hearing referencing this evidence, but was not permitted to give oral evidence. This was not surprising, as a previous advert of the campaign had attracted one objection - from the politicians of the All-Party Betting and Gaming Committee.
2005 Gambling Act Licensing Objective 2 - Prevention of Crime Associated with Gambling
Operators are clustering betting shops in poorer areas simply to maximize FOBT profits. These premises are resourced with minimal staff on low wages, giving underage and non-sober gamblers easy access to the addictive content on FOBTs. There has been an escalation of crime in betting shops since the introduction of FOBTs. Robberies and assaults on staff are everyday occurrences and criminal damage on premises is often going unreported.
2005 Gambling Act Licensing Objective 3 - Fair and Open Gambling
An FOBT can take up to £100 per spin (every 20 seconds) compared to a £2 maximum on a slot machine in more highly taxed and heavily regulated casinos. FOBT players are not informed that the roulette result is determined before the virtual ball starts spinning or of the FOBT retention percentage. There is zero consideration of consumer protection.
Final thoughts
Politicians seemingly apathetic attitude is motivated by a desire to protect the bookmakers and the tax revenue generated on the back of legally questionable FOBT profits from problem gamblers in poor communities.
This is not the Big Society, and it's not joined-up government. FOBTs are being operated in breach of all three licensing objectives. If the Government is not willing to solve the FOBT issue that it has itself created, how can it be trusted to solve anything?
More information available at www.FairerGambling.co.uk
Sentimentality isn't in the bookmakers vocabulary
Historic pub could be turned into a bookies
By GARETH CRICKMER http://www.shieldsgazette.com
PINTS are set to be swapped for punts after a historic pub became odds-on to change into a bookies.
In a shock move, The Criterion could soon become the latest betting shop in the heart of South Shields.
Ladbrokes wants to spend £200,000 converting the eye-catching Victorian building at the junction of Ocean Road and King Street.
And the national chain has already filed two planning applications with South Tyneside Council.
It is bidding to alter the facia, and repair and make changes to other parts of the exterior ahead of more extensive works.
The firm said the move is a straight swap for the its Market Place outlet in Wouldhave House, which is set for demolition.
That could be pulled down later this year under council modernisation and regeneration plans.
A Ladbrokes spokesman said: “This is simply a relocation from the Market Place site. We’re hoping to open it in late September. There will be over £200,000 invested in converting and refurbishing the new venue, which we will lease.
“It will be kitted out with all our new technology like large touch screen TVs and touch-screen terminals.”
In November, the Gazette revealed how the pub was caught in Punch Tavern’s £3bn debt battle.
It was put up for sale at £250,000 by bosses desperate to cut operating costs and slash huge recent losses.
The Criterion is one of 2,600 leased premises the Burton-on-Trent-based chain has been trying to off-load.
Punch, which bought the business five years ago, had said it hoped it would continue to trade as a pub.
The premises consist of a ground-floor bar and first-floor function room with a catering kitchen.
On the second floor there is a two-bedroom flat, and three derelict rooms on the third floor.
It is not known if they will form part of Ladbrokes’ conversion.
Present landlord Hossain Babadi said: “I will be sad to see it go as pub if that is what happens. It is historic.
“I have heard Ladbrokes mentioned, but I don’t know for sure if they are buying it. I haven’t been told much.”
South Tyneside Council confirmed the planning applications were filed last week.
The public can comment on the bid via the council until May 9.
A spokesman said: “Planning permission is not required to turn it into a bookmakers as it is under the same classification as a pub under national guidelines.”
Conversion by Ladbrokes, which has other outlets in Ocean Road and Fowler Street, would cement the rise of bookmakers in South Shields town centre.
A BetFred branch opened 100m away in King Street two weeks ago, and Coral and William Hill trade nearby.
Within two weeks of going on the market, seven potential buyers – a national pub operator and six North East-based businessmen – viewed The Criterion
Historic pub could be turned into a bookies
By GARETH CRICKMER http://www.shieldsgazette.com
PINTS are set to be swapped for punts after a historic pub became odds-on to change into a bookies.
In a shock move, The Criterion could soon become the latest betting shop in the heart of South Shields.
Ladbrokes wants to spend £200,000 converting the eye-catching Victorian building at the junction of Ocean Road and King Street.
And the national chain has already filed two planning applications with South Tyneside Council.
It is bidding to alter the facia, and repair and make changes to other parts of the exterior ahead of more extensive works.
The firm said the move is a straight swap for the its Market Place outlet in Wouldhave House, which is set for demolition.
That could be pulled down later this year under council modernisation and regeneration plans.
A Ladbrokes spokesman said: “This is simply a relocation from the Market Place site. We’re hoping to open it in late September. There will be over £200,000 invested in converting and refurbishing the new venue, which we will lease.
“It will be kitted out with all our new technology like large touch screen TVs and touch-screen terminals.”
In November, the Gazette revealed how the pub was caught in Punch Tavern’s £3bn debt battle.
It was put up for sale at £250,000 by bosses desperate to cut operating costs and slash huge recent losses.
The Criterion is one of 2,600 leased premises the Burton-on-Trent-based chain has been trying to off-load.
Punch, which bought the business five years ago, had said it hoped it would continue to trade as a pub.
The premises consist of a ground-floor bar and first-floor function room with a catering kitchen.
On the second floor there is a two-bedroom flat, and three derelict rooms on the third floor.
It is not known if they will form part of Ladbrokes’ conversion.
Present landlord Hossain Babadi said: “I will be sad to see it go as pub if that is what happens. It is historic.
“I have heard Ladbrokes mentioned, but I don’t know for sure if they are buying it. I haven’t been told much.”
South Tyneside Council confirmed the planning applications were filed last week.
The public can comment on the bid via the council until May 9.
A spokesman said: “Planning permission is not required to turn it into a bookmakers as it is under the same classification as a pub under national guidelines.”
Conversion by Ladbrokes, which has other outlets in Ocean Road and Fowler Street, would cement the rise of bookmakers in South Shields town centre.
A BetFred branch opened 100m away in King Street two weeks ago, and Coral and William Hill trade nearby.
Within two weeks of going on the market, seven potential buyers – a national pub operator and six North East-based businessmen – viewed The Criterion
Betting association helps pay for major boxing tournament
By Hermione Wright http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk
A major boxing competition is likely to go ahead thanks to a donation from a betting shop association.
The £1,500 cheque was donated to the Haringey Police Community Amateur Boxing Club on Friday on behalf of the Association of British Bookmakers.
The money will help pay for a boxing tournament at Alexandra Palace in June, which will see more than 1,000 people aged 17 and above fight in a bid to become this year’s champion.
The bookmakers association, which is the leading trade association for UK betting shop operators, gave the money to the boxing club to recognise the work they do to help young people in the borough.
Over the past year and a half, the bookmakers association has donated a total of £10,000 to the club, half of which to help pay for the general running of the club, and the rest to cover some of the costs of the upcoming cup.
Peter Craske, who works at the bookmakers association, said: “We are really pleased to be able to support this worthwhile organisation, which is helping to transform lives of young people in Haringey, teaching them new skills and gaining the confidence they need for their lives ahead.”
The boxing club, which is based in High Road, Tottenham, was set up by a metropolitan police officer in 2000 and continues to rely on donations to secure its future.
Kenny Marsh MBE, who is the boxing club treasurer, said the club needs to come up with at least £50,000 every year to allow the popular boxing cup to go ahead.
Although there is still a long way to go before the total is reached, he said the donation from the bookmakers association is a great help.
He said: “The association has been very kind and extremely generous. We have go out to find the money for the cup ourselves, which is hard because it costs about £50,000.
“They have been brilliant because the money given to the club allows us to carry on working on outreach projects while we work on the cup.”
The latest donation from the association comes from their winnings as part of last year’s Tilley Award.
The award, which was given by the Home Office, recognised the work of the association to reduce and prevent crime in London’s betting shops
By Hermione Wright http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk
A major boxing competition is likely to go ahead thanks to a donation from a betting shop association.
The £1,500 cheque was donated to the Haringey Police Community Amateur Boxing Club on Friday on behalf of the Association of British Bookmakers.
The money will help pay for a boxing tournament at Alexandra Palace in June, which will see more than 1,000 people aged 17 and above fight in a bid to become this year’s champion.
The bookmakers association, which is the leading trade association for UK betting shop operators, gave the money to the boxing club to recognise the work they do to help young people in the borough.
Over the past year and a half, the bookmakers association has donated a total of £10,000 to the club, half of which to help pay for the general running of the club, and the rest to cover some of the costs of the upcoming cup.
Peter Craske, who works at the bookmakers association, said: “We are really pleased to be able to support this worthwhile organisation, which is helping to transform lives of young people in Haringey, teaching them new skills and gaining the confidence they need for their lives ahead.”
The boxing club, which is based in High Road, Tottenham, was set up by a metropolitan police officer in 2000 and continues to rely on donations to secure its future.
Kenny Marsh MBE, who is the boxing club treasurer, said the club needs to come up with at least £50,000 every year to allow the popular boxing cup to go ahead.
Although there is still a long way to go before the total is reached, he said the donation from the bookmakers association is a great help.
He said: “The association has been very kind and extremely generous. We have go out to find the money for the cup ourselves, which is hard because it costs about £50,000.
“They have been brilliant because the money given to the club allows us to carry on working on outreach projects while we work on the cup.”
The latest donation from the association comes from their winnings as part of last year’s Tilley Award.
The award, which was given by the Home Office, recognised the work of the association to reduce and prevent crime in London’s betting shops
re: March 1985
Will the Gambling Commission destroy our industry? by Freddy Bailey
25/04/2012 http://www.coin-opcommunity.co.uk
It seems that the Gambling Commission is hell bent on destroying the traditional side of the British coin machine industry that has been found in FECs, pubs, arcades and other sites for over 70 years - in favour of more high revenue generating locations such as betting shops and casinos.
However, in the past, the British Amusement Trade was assured by the predecessor of this new and hostile Gambling Commission (The Gambling Board of Great Britain) that they would never allow the large US style of operating hundreds of slot machines in one location – or indeed even one AWP style slot machine in a British betting shop.
So it is ironic that these very locations are booming with high payout games. Not only has the Gambling Commission allowed these actions – they have allowed these machines to be produced and operated by foreign companies that would never have qualified for a licence to do so, by the original Gaming Board who would not allow foreign companies to even qualify for a gaming machine certificate.
So not only has this rogue Gambling Commission allowed the operation of gaming machines in the traditional high street betting shops but they have aided and abetted these locations by assisting them to wipe out the competition by introducing rules and regulations that make it impossible to compete on a level playing field.
They have done this firstly by making it illegal for a person running a pub to collect and place bets for their customers who want to have a bet while drinking in their local pub. More importantly they have done this by making the machines available in the betting shop more attractive to the player than those in the pub.
If a player wishes to win up to £70 in a traditional location he must stake a £1 bet but if he hazards the same £1 in a betting shop or casino he or she can win a vast amount more – making it totally impossible to compete.
Even though these betting shops are enjoying a boom in betting revenues they are still being caught cheating and are being charged with illegal gaming activities – even though they can pay out vast amounts of money on their gaming machines.
The Gambling Commission should at least bring these betting shop locations in line with the same pay out structures that are imposed on the rest of the coin machine trade. For while all of this is happening – the traditional arcades and small operators are being attacked and scrutinized by over-enthusiastic Gambling Commission inspectors.
Not only are traditional style locations such as arcades being put out of business – so are the traditional coin machine manufacturers who are also being eaten up and taken over by the very same foreign companies that have been known to have a record of corruption in their own countries and would never have qualified for a gaming certificate under the original Gaming Board of Great Britain.
One of these days, Tony Blair and some of his cronies are going to have a lot to answer for….
The full newspaper image http://bit.ly/IpJFw0
Will the Gambling Commission destroy our industry? by Freddy Bailey
25/04/2012 http://www.coin-opcommunity.co.uk
It seems that the Gambling Commission is hell bent on destroying the traditional side of the British coin machine industry that has been found in FECs, pubs, arcades and other sites for over 70 years - in favour of more high revenue generating locations such as betting shops and casinos.
However, in the past, the British Amusement Trade was assured by the predecessor of this new and hostile Gambling Commission (The Gambling Board of Great Britain) that they would never allow the large US style of operating hundreds of slot machines in one location – or indeed even one AWP style slot machine in a British betting shop.
So it is ironic that these very locations are booming with high payout games. Not only has the Gambling Commission allowed these actions – they have allowed these machines to be produced and operated by foreign companies that would never have qualified for a licence to do so, by the original Gaming Board who would not allow foreign companies to even qualify for a gaming machine certificate.
So not only has this rogue Gambling Commission allowed the operation of gaming machines in the traditional high street betting shops but they have aided and abetted these locations by assisting them to wipe out the competition by introducing rules and regulations that make it impossible to compete on a level playing field.
They have done this firstly by making it illegal for a person running a pub to collect and place bets for their customers who want to have a bet while drinking in their local pub. More importantly they have done this by making the machines available in the betting shop more attractive to the player than those in the pub.
If a player wishes to win up to £70 in a traditional location he must stake a £1 bet but if he hazards the same £1 in a betting shop or casino he or she can win a vast amount more – making it totally impossible to compete.
Even though these betting shops are enjoying a boom in betting revenues they are still being caught cheating and are being charged with illegal gaming activities – even though they can pay out vast amounts of money on their gaming machines.
The Gambling Commission should at least bring these betting shop locations in line with the same pay out structures that are imposed on the rest of the coin machine trade. For while all of this is happening – the traditional arcades and small operators are being attacked and scrutinized by over-enthusiastic Gambling Commission inspectors.
Not only are traditional style locations such as arcades being put out of business – so are the traditional coin machine manufacturers who are also being eaten up and taken over by the very same foreign companies that have been known to have a record of corruption in their own countries and would never have qualified for a gaming certificate under the original Gaming Board of Great Britain.
One of these days, Tony Blair and some of his cronies are going to have a lot to answer for….
The full newspaper image http://bit.ly/IpJFw0
"With a 57.5% winning expectation, you are as likely to go 4-10 as to go 12-2. Sports bettors don't go broke because they can't call winners, and they don't go broke because of vigorish; - they go broke because they use bad money management."
- J. R.Miller
- J. R.Miller
The best money management in the world won't help you if you're playing FOBTs.
Ireland has always had relaxed gambling laws, yet FOBTs are banned here because of the harm they cause.
The bookies love them. I can't see how they benefit anyone else.
Ireland has always had relaxed gambling laws, yet FOBTs are banned here because of the harm they cause.
The bookies love them. I can't see how they benefit anyone else.
http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/news
Against all odds, the head of a bookmakers association is “very happy” to tour Haringey’s high streets with a councillor openly critical of the shops.
Councillor Nilgun Canver invited the chief executive of the Association of British Bookmakers to the borough two weeks ago in a bid to prove betting shops target deprived parts of the borough in clusters.
Although she may not have expected him to accept, bookie executive Dirk Vennix sent a formal letter to cllr Canver on Monday saying he would be delighted to take her up on her offer.
The letter from Mr Vennix, shown to the Haringey Independent today, said: “I would be very happy to meet with you in Haringey to discuss this matter further and tour the high street.
“In addition, I would be delighted to introduce you to local members of staff and some of our customers.
“I hope this will help to explain that betting is in fact a mainstream leisure activity, is heavily regulated and is enjoyed by many people in Haringey each year.”
The Association of British Bookmakers is the largest trade association for betting shop operators in the UK. Its members pay £100 per shop to sign up each year.
Mr Vennix, who leads the association, previously told the Haringey Independent there is “no evidence whatsoever” that betting shops target the most deprived areas.
In answer to his statement, the Labour politician asked Mr Vennix to join her for a few hours to walk down some of Haringey’s high streets to see how betting shops are clustering around deprived areas.
To date, there are 65 betting shops open in the borough. However, according to the Haringey Council betting scrutiny report in November, there are just nine bookmakers in the more affluent west side of the borough.
There are only two betting shops in Muswell Hill, two in Hornsey, two in Crouch End, one in High Gate and two in Fortis Green.
The figures show a contrast to the poorer, east side of Haringey. In Tottenham alone, there are more than 40 bookmakers.
In her invitation, cllr Canver said it would take little more than a “quick survey” for Mr Vennix to “see for himself” how bookmakers are appearing in the poorer parts of the borough.
The politician is yet to confirm or deny whether the tour will take place
Against all odds, the head of a bookmakers association is “very happy” to tour Haringey’s high streets with a councillor openly critical of the shops.
Councillor Nilgun Canver invited the chief executive of the Association of British Bookmakers to the borough two weeks ago in a bid to prove betting shops target deprived parts of the borough in clusters.
Although she may not have expected him to accept, bookie executive Dirk Vennix sent a formal letter to cllr Canver on Monday saying he would be delighted to take her up on her offer.
The letter from Mr Vennix, shown to the Haringey Independent today, said: “I would be very happy to meet with you in Haringey to discuss this matter further and tour the high street.
“In addition, I would be delighted to introduce you to local members of staff and some of our customers.
“I hope this will help to explain that betting is in fact a mainstream leisure activity, is heavily regulated and is enjoyed by many people in Haringey each year.”
The Association of British Bookmakers is the largest trade association for betting shop operators in the UK. Its members pay £100 per shop to sign up each year.
Mr Vennix, who leads the association, previously told the Haringey Independent there is “no evidence whatsoever” that betting shops target the most deprived areas.
In answer to his statement, the Labour politician asked Mr Vennix to join her for a few hours to walk down some of Haringey’s high streets to see how betting shops are clustering around deprived areas.
To date, there are 65 betting shops open in the borough. However, according to the Haringey Council betting scrutiny report in November, there are just nine bookmakers in the more affluent west side of the borough.
There are only two betting shops in Muswell Hill, two in Hornsey, two in Crouch End, one in High Gate and two in Fortis Green.
The figures show a contrast to the poorer, east side of Haringey. In Tottenham alone, there are more than 40 bookmakers.
In her invitation, cllr Canver said it would take little more than a “quick survey” for Mr Vennix to “see for himself” how bookmakers are appearing in the poorer parts of the borough.
The politician is yet to confirm or deny whether the tour will take place
Guys I feel you all fixating on machines is a bid to make yourselves feel better? So you can hold your head up and say your not a mug.
The facts are simple...stick to them .... about 5% of us are profitable in the longterm.
You rarely here of bookmakers shutting down your account. The stories are rare because the people in profit are rare!!! I have lost 1000s with some bookies. I am up less then 2,000 euros with two other accounts and already they restrict your bets - to all intensive purposes the accounts are economically closed!
Were all mugs ( minus the 5%), just some of us mugs are rich enough to be able to afford the past-time, others lose control and can't stop.
Gambling addiction is huge...you can see an alcoholic, he can't hide it. You can, You do!! How many here would be able to walk away tomorrow, forever?
The facts are simple...stick to them .... about 5% of us are profitable in the longterm.
You rarely here of bookmakers shutting down your account. The stories are rare because the people in profit are rare!!! I have lost 1000s with some bookies. I am up less then 2,000 euros with two other accounts and already they restrict your bets - to all intensive purposes the accounts are economically closed!
Were all mugs ( minus the 5%), just some of us mugs are rich enough to be able to afford the past-time, others lose control and can't stop.
Gambling addiction is huge...you can see an alcoholic, he can't hide it. You can, You do!! How many here would be able to walk away tomorrow, forever?
A lot of these articles are commercially driven campaigns led by competitiors which are more than a little disingenuous.
Take the New Statesman article for example. Derek Webb who set up the fairergambling.org campaign which lobbies against the machines has been in a commercial dispute with the bookmakers for many years as he believes he invented one of the games they use and should therefore be getting a cut of the income. Once they refused to pay he set up his campaign.
Take the New Statesman article for example. Derek Webb who set up the fairergambling.org campaign which lobbies against the machines has been in a commercial dispute with the bookmakers for many years as he believes he invented one of the games they use and should therefore be getting a cut of the income. Once they refused to pay he set up his campaign.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539