The year Tromos ran in the Craven

the second was the one that Snowy said "lester will never ride for me again" after he got beaten by Royal Boy, Lester said "Thats me finished then" or words to that affect

Didnt Wollow beat a ballydoyle one called Malinowski in the Dewhurst??

Anyone remember a miler called Jaazeiro from around '78 ?

You're right about Malinowski zilzal1 he did run in the 1975 Dewhurst.  I do remember Jaazeiro alun2005 he won the Irish 2000 Guineas in 1978.

Re Malinowski - think he was the top irish 2yo that season. He won his race before the Dewhurst by miles (at the Curragh). Wollow beat him comfortably and went on to win the Greenham and then of course the 2000 Guineas.

Re J O Tobin - Sir Henry said he "would definitely have won the 2000 Gns in 1977"

Jaazeiro did the rare Irish 2000 Guineas, St James Palace Stakes, Sussex Stakes treble in '78 which wasn't too shabby. These days, any horse that does that (e.g. Rock of Gibraltar) is a superstar.

What was the year that MVOB had something silly like 5 out of 6 at the Royal Meeting???

'77 was a good year for him as I recall

Think Thatch was one of them

Solinus won the Coventry Stakes in 1977.

MVOB - 1975 - 6 out of 7 runners at Royal Ascot.  Swingtime and Imperial March were definitely two of them.

MVOB 1975 - Apart from Swingtime (Cork and Orrery)and Imperial March (Queen Anne), the other winners were Gallina (Ribblesdale), Blood Royal(Queen's Vase), Gay Fandango (Jersey) and Boones Cabin (Wokingham).  The only loser was Sir Penfro, but to make up for that he had a winner with his only runner on Ascot Heath Saturday.

Cheers Blackbarn, i must be thinking  of another year because i thought that Cellini was his loser being beaten by Averof of Clives in the St James Palace stakes

Malinowski was out of a great broodmare
Best In Show who produced an unraced mare
Sex Appeal dam of Try My Best & the great miler El Gran Senor
BIS also produced a filly Monroe dam of
Xaar.
They certainly liked their Dewhursts that branch of the family.

I remember when El Gran Senor was the SOLE 2yo raider of the season that Ballydoyle sent over to the uk in 83, pretty astounding!!

Memory test here, guys. I can't remember the name but in the 1977 Derby (I stand to be corrected about 1977 as well) what was the name of the horse who tried to savage another in running?

Or, have I got that wrong and it wasn't the Derby at all?

Whilst I am at it, who remebers how good the Sporting Life used to be on Derby Day? Packed with information: Ante-post books, breeding, and much more. Now the Derby seems to pass by, not as a national event but as an excuse for chaviness!

Was it Be My Guest?? there were a few around the time, Marinsky(spelling) might have been another, and there was a Steve Norton animal

My memory is terrible but was it Thatching?
Arcadian Heights was another that liked to take lumps out of his opponents but I do not think he did so in the Derby.

Ubedizzy I think was Nortons

Marisky was the one I was thinking of...

Ubedizzy did some poor soul a real mischief.I think he tried to eat a stable lad.

Marinsky....not as I have spelled it although not sure of the spelling anyway but that was the one.

Im sure that Marinsky was a Ballydoyle animal, something distant tells me that he was banned from Racing altogether and they couldnt even trust him  to breed such was his nature, but i may be wrong about the latter

Marinsky savaged Relkino in the Diomed I think @ Epsom
Ran with headgear @ Ascot beaten by Don in the St James Palace
Disqualified in July CUp think he was then banned from racing in England

Speaking of Don, does anyone remember Jellaby who looked certain to win the 1978 Lockinge but unseated his rider.  Don went on to win the race.

Think Jellaby was a grey?
orange & Black colours(Sheik Alkhalifa or similar) & unseated Brain Taylor

Marinsky made his debut at the Curragh in a seven furlong maiden starting at 1/7,he cruised into the lead and then attacked a horse alongside him,the biting went on for the last furlong and Marinsky got beaten a head.Most people at the Curragh that day had never seen anything like it and so plenty charged round to the parade ring to view the savage beast.Lester Piggott when interviewed made no reference to the biting,he just said "he didn`t stay " and as usual the bould Lester was right as he was a sprinter,always a man of few words.

Id have thought that"Not staying" would have been the least of Lesters problems on him

Retaining ones limbs would have been a top priority

Jellaby was officially classified as a roan.  He was a good horse and won the Brigadier Gerard on two occasions in 1977 and 1979.

He only bit other horses but the quote epitomised to me the brilliance of Lester in that despite the kerfuffle he was able to give a correct assessment of the horse.

Was he banned from Breeding as well Wildman??? something distant tells me he was

Not that i recall but i have never seen anything by him so you could be right.

Exactly WMFB.  There was nobody better than Lester for telling it as it is.

It is a skill that seems to have gone.

Geoff M has got it...Marinsky savaged Relkino in the Diomed...forgot just what a bad 'un Marinsky was!

Jellaby in the Lockinge...not long into my punting 'career' then and had £2 on him. Was already used to being short-headed but that was the first time I had to cope with a certain winner encountering defeat from nowhere. Been a few since then.

Walter Swinburne rode Ajdal in the Guineas where he didn`t stay but he failed to notice and then rode him in the Derby when finally the penny dropped for Michael Stoute,he later won the July Cup.

I think marinski died of a twisted gut(alledgedly) later that year
You wouldnt have wanted him as a stallion but the insurance would have been o.k(or am im just an old cynic?)

Talking of Lester P. I was at Newbury once in the early 1980's when he literally lifted a horse home in a photo, giving it the full Piggot treatment throughout the last half a furlong.

As he came into what used to be the winner's enclosure in front of the old weighing room the photo was still to be announced. The trainer seemed in no doubt though and I heard him say to a dismounting Lester 'Will it stay another furlong..what do you think?'

If my memory serves me correctly, Lester replied 'If it ever fu**ing recovers from this it will'. With that he took his saddle and walked off, just as the photo gave him the verdict. The trainer was left looking totally aghast. You could just see how stupid Lester thought the question was given the race the animal had just run.

Lester is a one-off and a sportsman that was totally confident in his own ability.

Amazing Blackbarn,Pauli,Geoff m,Zilzal1,Dunlaying,ged,Onlooker all the good posters on the one thread and after that last contribution i am adding The Knight to the list.

WMFB

Thank you...

Proper racing fans and a proper thread. I used to contribute to a lot more threads but packed in and rarely look at the forum now because it is so full of sh*t...'10p to £10,000' 'Hang this jockey, hang that jockey' 'I couldn't get my XX on at XX with this bookie, that bookie' and more...

Christ, just read that back. I really do sound like an old g*t!

Lester could give both tender and tough rides,Petite Etoile for the former and The Minstrel the latter,despite the hard races The Minstrel kept coming back for more.Lester knew when it was neccessary and knew when it wasn`t,he was the best reader of a race and a horse and to me the best flat jockey.

Another dodge was Centurius of Stoutes, looked the world as a 2yo, think it won the Royal Lodge as a 2yo, cost Swinburn the ride on Shergar at the Curragh after a barging match with Bustomi at the Royal meeting

Your back to Lester again,the beneficiary.

Wildman Ajdal brings back memories of the July Cup had an annual pilgrimmage to Newmarket for most of 80s for the July Cup from Marwell to Ajdal.
The day of Ajdals victory Id been up Warren Hill watching the early morning gallops went into town around 8/8.30 for a coffee & who should be sat in the coffee shop Cash Asmussen who rode Bluebird into 3rd later in the day.
Never asked him for his autograph!! What a mug!

The Minstrel took some tough old races as a 3yo, think they were wise(they did have Alleged for the second half of the 77 season) to leave him be after the King George

I backed Hot Grove in 1977 WMFB and I'm certain that no other jockey then or now would have won on The Minstrel.  The air was blue at the time but Lester gave The Ministrel a fantastic ride as did Willie Carson on Hot Grove.

I agree also Roberto,he unwittingly made a show of poor Ernie Johnson.

Agree with regards to Lester.
However his finest ride for me was Commanche Run in the Benson & Hedges @ York when he gradually wound up the pace all the way up the straight keeping the great Oh So Sharp @ bay
Was in a local Ladbrokes when it was announced over tannoy lester would be riding The Minstrel(he had been doubtfull) @ Epsom and nipped out to local independants & took 12/1 for the Derby.

Was there ever a harder jockey to get past than Willie Carson.

Zil was Centurious owned by the same guy who had Connaught Ranger (hurdler) with the Rimells?
Seem to recall the colours Yellow (black diamond i think) black sleeves

As Lester moved into the twilight of his career, I became a fan of Steve Cauthen. I always noticed the contrast in whip styles. Lester was rat-a-tat-tat with some big, big swipes when needed but Cauthen would always give the horse a stride or two to respond. I still think that Cauthen won more races than anyone else on front-runners which had been headed but then came back for more.

Not long after Cauthen took over from Piggot at Cecil's I was at Newmarket on the Rowley Mile and backed a Cecil / Cauthen short un'. The horse won with Cauthen having played cat and mouse almost from the get go. I had had a cash bet on the rails with a very well known bookie and when I went to draw we chatted briefly about the race. I always thought, though, his opening comment was significant..

'...now Cecil has got a jock who will do what he tells him!'....

I think it was, funnily enough Shergar was, at tone time a third string as a 2yo behind that one and Robellino(who im sure was fav for the futurity)

Some great rides mentioned and great judges of pace, thees not many i like riding from the front nowdays, although(and id admit he's not everyones cup of tea) i do like Ahern on a front runner, he's no bad judge of pace over the longer trips

at ONE time ffs

I always admired Cauthen and for him to come to England and learn the vagaries of all the great courses there was impressive,the one dimensional aspect of American racing puts me off it.

Steve was all class imo, cant remember the last jock who's made all in a Epsom Derby, i was there for the 1st and for me that time was magical, used to go racing all over Europe then and had some great pics, sadly over time ive lost them, the best being a head on at the Curragh of El Gran Senor beating Rainbow Quest

Sad loss that ZIl.
I replied to an advert in the Life in the early 80s to supply a guy with videos(VHS) of English Flat racing gutted didnt get copies.
However he repayed me in more way than 1 as he was a freelance photgrapher from Holland who came over for Derby & also went to the Arc so he furnished me with some superb black & white photos of Troy/Shirley Heightrs/The Minstrel /Shergar/Golden Fleece/Teenoso

I don't think i've seen EGS beating Rainbow Quest in the Irish Derby since the day, would love to see it again.

Anyone used to get the "Ed Byrne" racing year?? he only did 3 seasons if i remember rightly, some great ones though, think i gave all my collection of them and Racehorses away when i spend a couple of years in the far east in the 90s

Sure its on you tube Gerald, i remember the day well, Moscow Ballet won the big 2yo race(Railway stakes??) whilst Princess Pati won on the card, was so impressed with her that i backed her when she beat the English Oaks winner Circus Plume in the Irish equivalent a couple of weeks later

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0_OPnvPip8

There you go

El Gran Senor 2000 Guineas and Irish Derby 1984 enjoy:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0_OPnvPip8

Beat me to it zilzil1.  What a horse!

You are right zilzal. The 1980's. esepcially the middle bit, was magic for me as well.

Went all over, Brighton to York to Longchamp (there for Dancing Brave's Arc and it still sends shivers up my spine as he mows down one of the strongest fields ever).

Looking back now  though, I can hardly believe that I could be trying to sort out the winner of a seller at Brighton one day and the 1,000GNS winner the next, all via the form book!

Other than the odd day at the track, I concentrate soley on Group races now and following Wednesday's major disappointment with Pimepernel, I am delighted to report my faith was restored yesterday with Trumpet Major...and through leaving Twice Over alone because it looked just a shade too short.

Racing still doesn't feel like it used to though and that makes me sad. However, Thirsk tomorrow is one of the days I like to visit so perhaps, if the weather holds up and I do go, it will cheer me up!!!

Great thread.

Its an age thing though, we were more wide eyed,optimistic and didnt sit on a computer half the day or have multiple tv channels so we actually went out

There is the overkill on too much racing so i stick with Weekends and festivals and its served me well, i do concentrate on handicaps from 7-10f though

Agree, great thread though

Fantastic thread lads thanks to all contributors.  Agree with Knight and zilzal1 racing is not the same as it was and there is far too much of it.

Any of you lot remember the immortal 1971 2000 Guineas (some argue the most important race of the 20th Century) when Brigadier Gerard defeated Mill Reef and My Swallow?

Well quiz fans, what never-reported event that took place just before the race (I saw it happen) possibly gave the Brigadier a vital edge?

Minsky's tail swishing cooled the Brig down for 10 Mins before the start??

Nope

Did Minsky take a big p!ss down the centre of the track?

Incidentally, did the Brigadier need to be against a rail? He hung over to it in the Guineas, and the only times he got beat, or nearly got beat (St James Palace), he had to race away from it.

Nope. Minsky blameless.

I'll give you a clue. Tromos on Craven day.

Sorry. forget that clue. In my old age I may have mixed up Tromos with some other horse.

Don't worry old son,you are not alone!

OK, here's the answer, which NO racing writer has mntiond as a possible reason why Brigadier Gerard won.

Just before they went into the stalls, BG had an enormous dump. The sight of it almost made me sick. Now that's GOT to have helped the horse.

I was a Mill Ref fan and blive BG should have been DQd and chargd with bringing racing into disrepute.

Did Tromos also do the same in the paddock before the Craven or was it another horse Bird backed?

My letter 'e' is on strike btw

There was talk of Gorytus doing one before the Dewhurst, but it might have been a mythical one.

GORYTUS !!!  Thank you, that's the one. Was doing my head in !!

Believe me, there was nothing mythical about BG's ghastly dump. 'Biblical' maybe.

Many thanks for the links to EGS - i'm sure i've been trying to find that on you tube for years to no avail! What a horse he was - imo despite never running over the trip, possibly the greatest 10f horse of all time!

Gorytus wasnt a mythical dump saw it across the paddock.
Winning trainer in the 1st Rae Guest brings back great memories of the 80s.
Fantastic jock for getting the Cumani horses hcapped Dallas/Fish N Chips et al.(very sympathetic altho may have had trobule with the stewards present day.
Rode Dallas to a tenderly handled 7th or 8th 1st time up in a maiden on 1000 gns day before bolting up later in the season in Brittani & Cambridgeshire

I remember Dallas and that time of life well, he won on the cambs on the July course the day before Dancing Brave won the Arc and at around the same time Honeyghan stopped Curry to win his title.

The memory is vivid because i was going out with a Feisty Blonde called Francesca who required a lot of Stamina to deal with

1986 was a hell of a year - not only Dancing Brave, but also dual classic winning Midway Lady, Sonic Lady, Green Desert, Last Tycoon AND an astonishing collection of 2yo inc Forest Flower, Minstrella, Ajdal, Reference Point and Miesque!

I went to Longchamp in the spring for the very 1st time on one of those sporting life jobbies when Sangsters Baiser Vole won their 2000

i remember it was £99 for the day and all i got was the flight, coach from the Airport and Geoff Lester's view on the day

Never mind this racing lark, could we have a few more reminiscences about Fiesty Francesca?

And Paula from yesterday for the Exacta wouldn't hurt.

Pamela LOL, Paula was in the Teenoso through to Slip Anchor era

Apologies for my schoolboy error with 'Pamela'

It's great to know that there's another person who measures his female, erm, acquaintanceships in approximation to the turf calendar.

One of my Girlfriends and her mother said that i had an unhealthy obsession with Racing...

They were soon at the gate and they were off.......

pauli     20 Apr 12 09:50 

Speaking of Don, does anyone remember Jellaby who looked certain to win the 1978 Lockinge but unseated his rider.
------------------------

JELLABY - Unseated his jockey 100 yards from the Winning Post, when well clear, having made all.

On page 381 of 'Racehorses of 1978' - there is a montage of 6 photographs, showing the incident - with the second photo clearing showing Jellaby's left leg deeply immersed into the turf.
The final photo shows jockey, Brian Taylor, on his knees, looking shocked, and bemused.

"After the race, the Stewards inspected the course, and found no fault with the condition of the track. -
- Well they wouldn't, would they - and most especially in THOSE days.

You can only imagine what Jellaby's trainer, RYAN PRICE, thought of that statement ....

"**!%^*&*&%*"&!!!!!"

I think the "tea dance" woman was Fay Presto -- maybe she had a sex change...? She worked as a professional magician and even did the arts centres...saw her live and she had awfully big hands for a "lady"...

Vela, you havent been drinking again, you know its limited to an Snowball ONLY, and thats on special occasions

Uncle Zil, you doughnut - you say you LOST all those photies of El Gran Senor...? A fiver a pop on Ebay!!

EBay wasnt around in the 90s you soap dodger

It still hurts!

It still hurts!

The trouble with you Tromos is that you clog up the forum too much!!!!

Yeah, but all you had to do was stick the negatives in the dressing table drawer until it WAS invented, you numpty! Ain't you never heard of LOGIC??

I was busy trying to run a ****house in Koh Samui!! someones got to earn a living

"Nice photie of El Gran Senor -- slightly blurred head on view -- Copyright ZILZALWOZTHERE -- £4.99 plus £1.50 postage...FREE hand-knitted willy-warmer in the Sangster colours with every purchase..."

Put it on the Dresser alongside the "Richard Gough" tankard i sent you

Sold it to a pauper to raise money for Rangers ------>

Yes onlooker I can imagine what the Captain would have said.  Jellaby was a very good horse and won the Brigadier Gerard and Queen Anne in 1977 and the Brigadier Gerard again in 1979 when trained by Peter Walwyn.  I can't remember the circumstances of why he was removed from Ryan Price.

http://www.findonvillage.com/0516_a_personality_of_the_past_captain_ryan_pri...

Talking about the 80`s, I remember I bet 2 singles and an e/w double ante post on the Guineas in 1980 and thought I was going to crack the jackpot.

1,000 - Quick as Lightning @ 50/1

2,000 - World Leader @ 66/1

Pity Betfair hadn`t been around then. I couldn`t sleep for 2 days after QAL won the 1,000 for Brian Rouse, his only classic winner. Unfortunately, it wasn`t to be when World Leader (d`Alessio`s with Cumani) held every chance but faded at the bushes. IF ONLY.